Annoying politics

[jcright]

Does anyone work for a union? I do and it really ticks me off :mad: that my union dues go to support John Kerry. Don't get me wrong, this is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue...this is a matter of where my money is going and why. I don't think they should be supporting any candidate. It's one thing to encourage us to vote, another to tell us who to vote for.

Alright, I'm done ranting. I'd be interested to hear what the rest of you think. If you're in my spot, how are you handling the situation?

[Gold Dragon]

Does anyone work for a union? I do and it really ticks me off :mad: that my union dues go to support John Kerry. Don't get me wrong, this is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue...this is a matter of where my money is going and why. I don't think they should be supporting any candidate. It's one thing to encourage us to vote, another to tell us who to vote for.

Alright, I'm done ranting. I'd be interested to hear what the rest of you think. If you're in my spot, how are you handling the situation?
I think that is part of being in a union or any other group. We gain the benefits of speaking in one voice by sacrificing some of our individual voice.

Our election processes works the same way. We vote for a parliamentary (or congressional, etc) representative who speaks on behalf of everyone in the region. Unfortunately the minority voices get supressed (tyranny of the majority).

I guess the part that really sucks is when you don't have an option to be unionized or not. And while they tell you to vote Kerry, you always have that option not to.

[ZiSunka]

Unions have good points and bad points. One of the bad ones is that you have to accept that some of your dues go to support politics that you might not agree with. One of the good points is that unions are the ones that got American workers safe workplaces and 40 hour work-weeks. As with most relationships, you have to take the bad with the good...:(

[jcright]

Unions have good points and bad points. One of the bad ones is that you have to accept that some of your dues go to support politics that you might not agree with. One of the good points is that unions are the ones that got American workers safe workplaces and 40 hour work-weeks. As with most relationships, you have to take the bad with the good...:(

Perhaps, but I would question how good they are at this point. Yes, we have 40 hour work weeks, but we also have some of the laziest people that we can't get rid of. We also have people that will keep their job because of seniority when people like me would get laid-off despite the fact that I have more/better skills. They've killed the healthy, and productive, competition.

[ZiSunka]

I'm not defending unions...I'm just trying to put a positive perspective on the table.

[jcright]

I'm not defending unions...I'm just trying to put a positive perspective on the table.
As well you should...sometimes I forget about what your title says: "God inhabits our praise, not our complaints!"

[daveleau]

Is there any posibility of dropping the union? I'm not well versed in the requirements- ie- if you aren't a member are you fired or hurt by your employer in any way. IMO, my reading leads me to believe that unions have outstripped their usefulness. I would not support an organization that did not speak for me in all important areas. This is an important area and surely the entire union is not for Kerry.

[WiredSpirit]

Well, most union members I know are Democrats so I don't have a problem with the unions supporting the candidate that will do the most for them. Like any organization, there will always be members who disagree.

There's no doubt in my mind that unions have made great progress in the workplace, but I think they've entered industries where they're really not needed. I do not like the fact that unions demand higher pay from companies because it has been my experience that companies pay their employees what they can afford. If everybody got raises it would only cause inflation. There was a day when unions stood up for workers' rights like safety and health issues, but nowadays the government has taken over regulating that. My mom has worked in a factory since she was 19 and probably will until the day she's no longer able to do it. The pay is good, but the work is hard. She is a member of the union, but the union has not done a thing for her in many years.

On the other hand, unions provide staffing services in some cases. Construction workers, for instance, are usually union and when companies need help for projects they go to the union and hire unemployed union members. That's about the only real useful function I've known a union to perform.

[Monica02]

Does anyone work for a union? I do and it really ticks me off :mad: that my union dues go to support John Kerry. Don't get me wrong, this is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue...this is a matter of where my money is going and why. I don't think they should be supporting any candidate. It's one thing to encourage us to vote, another to tell us who to vote for.

Alright, I'm done ranting. I'd be interested to hear what the rest of you think. If you're in my spot, how are you handling the situation?
Pardon my Catholicism. I think it might be possible for you to ask that your portion of dues be directed elsewhere if you have a moral problem with a union issue. This will not make a big difference I know but perhaps will take a load off your mind. Onthe other hand your union will know that you have are not totally in their ballpark and treat you bad. I am not in a union but I hve heard you can jump through a few hundred hoops and put your money somewhere else.

[ZiSunka]

Pardon my Catholicism.
Huh?

I think it might be possible for you to ask that your portion of dues be directed elsewhere if you have a moral problem with a union issue. This will not make a big difference I know but perhaps will take a load off your mind. Onthe other hand your union will know that you have are not totally in their ballpark and treat you bad. I am not in a union but I hve heard you can jump through a few hundred hoops and put your money somewhere else.
Only for members of religious groups that have traditional objections to joining organizations. When I worked for City of Cleveland, I started to apply for this exemption as a mennonite, but there were over 40 pages of forms to fill out, you had to attach your church's entire statement of faith that shows the prohibtion from joining a union, and go through interviews in which your beliefs are questioned and you have to defend with an oral argument. In the end, I just quit my job and moved to one that had no union.

[Monica02]

Huh?

Just a harmless joke


Only for members of religious groups that have traditional objections to joining organizations. When I worked for City of Cleveland, I started to apply for this exemption as a mennonite, but there were over 40 pages of forms to fill out, you had to attach your church's entire statement of faith that shows the prohibtion from joining a union, and go through interviews in which your beliefs are questioned and you have to defend with an oral argument. In the end, I just quit my job and moved to one that had no union.
Oh- I heard that the teachers unions will let you redirect the portion of your dues that would normally go towards supporting abortion in some way. This is just an example and I am sure that different states and unions have different rules. I guess they all make you do flips through flaming hoops though.

[ZiSunka]

It's next to impossible. I've talked to other people who tried, and none of them were allowed the exemption, because the union's examining board didn't believe that they were sincere enough in their beliefs. See, it's the union who ultimately decides whether or not to approve the exemption, and they have a vested interest in not approving exemptions so they don't lose your dues or the dues of other people who might also try to get out.

[Monica02]

It's next to impossible. I've talked to other people who tried, and none of them were allowed the exemption, because the union's examining board didn't believe that they were sincere enough in their beliefs. See, it's the union who ultimately decides whether or not to approve the exemption, and they have a vested interest in not approving exemptions so they don't lose your dues or the dues of other people who might also try to get out.
That really bites! Sometimes I wonder if Americans are truly free. :| :scratch:

[ZiSunka]

That really bites! Sometimes I wonder if Americans are truly free. :| :scratch:
Sure we are. We can always go work someplace else! :D

[WiredSpirit]

Oh- I heard that the teachers unions will let you redirect the portion of your dues that would normally go towards supporting abortion in some way. This is just an example and I am sure that different states and unions have different rules. I guess they all make you do flips through flaming hoops though.
A portion of your union dues go to abortion clinics?

[Crazy Liz]

It's next to impossible. I've talked to other people who tried, and none of them were allowed the exemption, because the union's examining board didn't believe that they were sincere enough in their beliefs. See, it's the union who ultimately decides whether or not to approve the exemption, and they have a vested interest in not approving exemptions so they don't lose your dues or the dues of other people who might also try to get out.

Where are you LL?

The US Constitution allows freedom of association, as well as freedom of speech and of religion. You should not have to prove your religious faith to withhold or redirect part of your union dues. In fact, if you work for a public (government) employer here in CA or if you are a lawyer, so you have to be a member of the Bar to practice your profession, I believe the part of your dues that is used for political activity is considered voluntary, and you have a check-off when you sign up to pay your dues.

With some unions, I believe they require everyone to pay the same amount of dues so people won't decline the political part just to save money, but they can redirect it to another charitable organization.

As far as the unions having the final say, you can sue them if they turn you down. Usually they will back down if you know your rights and are persistent. If they turn down your application, take them to small claims court to get your money back. There probably are several Christian organizations that would help you.

All that said about your legal rights, I am convinced that the labor unions in Western Europe have done a lot more good for workers than those in America, and this has primarily because they have focused more of their energy on political action than on collective bargaining. They have shorter work weeks, more vacation, paid maternity leave of several months at least, and universal health care. These are available to all workers, not just those who work for the largest corporations. They have these rights all because they focused on political action and got laws passed for these things. All these things support family values, which American corporations are undermining at every turn.

[TwinCrier]

National Right to Work Foundation
http://www.nrtw.org
A non-profit organization providing free legal aid nationwide to thousands of employees whose human and civil rights have been violated by compulsory unionism abuses.

[Monica02]

A portion of your union dues go to abortion clinics?
I am not in a union but I just heard about this. The major teachers unions usually support and endorse pro-abortion candidates and their agendas very often include strong encouragement of pro-abortion education.

[Monica02]

A portion of your union dues go to abortion clinics?
I am not in a union but this is what I have heard. The major teachers unions usually support and endorse pro-abortion candidates. Their agendas very often encourage pro-abortion education.

[WiredSpirit]

I am not in a union but this is what I have heard. The major teachers unions usually support and endorse pro-abortion candidates. Their agendas very often encourage pro-abortion education.
I understand that, but I don't think there's any connection between the unions and the abortion issue directly. In most cases, there are only two candidates running and one is pro-choice and the other is pro-life.

[jcright]

I understand that, but I don't think there's any connection between the unions and the abortion issue directly. In most cases, there are only two candidates running and one is pro-choice and the other is pro-life.
That's one of the biggest problems I have with my union. They aren't interested in the other issues a candidate supports, they are looking at two things (as far as I can tell): 1) Who is willing to support the unions and 2) Who has the most chance to succeed. Bascially, they are a one issue group. Let's face it, in this country, only one of two parties will make it as president: Republican or Democrat...the independents don't stand a chance. I understand that they have to pick someone that will support their cause, but I think they should also be looking at more than just the union issues...like abortion, same-sex marriages and, most importantly, what role they see God playing in all of this. Of course, I will be guilty of using the same tactic...my thought is a vote for an independent is a vote for Kerry and I definitely don't want that to happen. Too bad the unions won't throw their weight to the underdog, maybe we'd see a change in our options...instead of two people to choose from, it could be three.

We recently received an e-mail from one of the union staff about not regarding the political e-mails as junk mail. I was fired up enough to send a response (to him only...although, now i think i should have sent it to everyone on the list). I asked him why the union couldn't have picked a candidate that supported unions and also will be willing to support God. I let him know that I'd rather face the idea of losing my job than to support someone who doesn't have a plan with God in mind. I received no response. I expect no response back. I can only pray that my message made him think twice about what the union is doing.

[WiredSpirit]

That's one of the biggest problems I have with my union. They aren't interested in the other issues a candidate supports, they are looking at two things (as far as I can tell): 1) Who is willing to support the unions and 2) Who has the most chance to succeed. Bascially, they are a one issue group. Let's face it, in this country, only one of two parties will make it as president: Republican or Democrat...the independents don't stand a chance. I understand that they have to pick someone that will support their cause, but I think they should also be looking at more than just the union issues...like abortion, same-sex marriages and, most importantly, what role they see God playing in all of this. Of course, I will be guilty of using the same tactic...my thought is a vote for an independent is a vote for Kerry and I definitely don't want that to happen. Too bad the unions won't throw their weight to the underdog, maybe we'd see a change in our options...instead of two people to choose from, it could be three.

We recently received an e-mail from one of the union staff about not regarding the political e-mails as junk mail. I was fired up enough to send a response (to him only...although, now i think i should have sent it to everyone on the list). I asked him why the union couldn't have picked a candidate that supported unions and also will be willing to support God. I let him know that I'd rather face the idea of losing my job than to support someone who doesn't have a plan with God in mind. I received no response. I expect no response back. I can only pray that my message made him think twice about what the union is doing.
The only reason a union would endorse a candidate at all is because they believe the candidate will do more for them than the other. They don't choose based on one issue, they choose based on the issues that are relevant to their cause. If you notice, there is a class-war going on in this (and most) election(s). The working class is supporting John Kerry, while the upper-middle class and rich support George Bush. If they were to choose a candidate based on your personal issues and actually said it was because of those issues, don't you think the union members who avidly support abortion rights would raise a much bigger fuss than if they left those issues out of it? IMO, its better if they just stuck to the issues relevant to them.

What's sad is a generally don't support unions, but it makes total sense for them to support John Kerry and I can't imagine why it would be in their best interest to support Bush. I'm still undecided in this election, but I'm leaning strongly towards Kerry. When it comes to matters of the economy, I am conservative, but I am liberal on most social issues. Abortion is an important issue for me, but so is abolishing the death penalty, gun control, opposing the FMA, withdrawing from Iraq, cooperating with the UN, etc.

[Melly Monster]

I'm not in your spot, I'm just a house wife and mom but I do know by being online all the time people trying to tell me who I should vote for but I'm going with Bush weather anyone likes it or not because I believe God wants him back in office, I believe Bush belongs in the hot seat again.

[WiredSpirit]

I felt I should weigh in on my personal feelings towards unions...

I have seen unions in retail businesses and from what I've observed, they only build a wall between management and employees that wouldn't exist otherwise. I believe that in most cases companies treat their employees well because they know that it is their employees who make them wealthy. Employees can climb the ladder and are unlimited in what they can achieve in the company if a union isn't holding them back.

[ZiSunka]

The working class is supporting John Kerry, while the upper-middle class and rich support George Bush.
I think from what I can observe around here (Dayton, Ohio), it's exactly the opposite.

[WiredSpirit]

Well, why don't you drive around the west side of Dayton and count the Bush/Cheney bumper then go out to Kettering or Huber Heights and count the Kerry stickers.

[ZiSunka]

Well, why don't you drive around the west side of Dayton and count the Bush/Cheney bumper then go out to Kettering or Huber Heights and count the Kerry stickers.
Live there, done that.

The reason I think that more of the upper-middles support Kerry is his liberal politics and Bush's lack of support for upper-middle ideals like embryonic stem cell research, gay marriage, re-legalizing partial birth abortions and establishing a nationalized health plans. Those are things the upper-liberals that I work with support and the reasons they are strongly supporting Kerry. Most of my coworkers are in the six-figure household income class, which I would consider upper middle, not working class.

[WiredSpirit]

Well, you do realize that's the exception, right? What business are you in?

[ZiSunka]

Engineering.

I live in Englewood, a decidedly working-class neighborhood, and I walk my dog about 3 miles a night, through many neighborhoods, and I see a lot more Bush signs than Kerry signs.

It's more of a values thing than an class thing. People with traditional, conservative values are pro-Bush and those with post-modern, liberal values support Kerry.

[WiredSpirit]

I have family in Beaver Creek and Xenia, but that's besides the point.

I live in Evansville, IN which is probably one of the most (if not the most) liberal city in Indiana. There are a lot of factories and union labor around here. My mother works at a Whirlpool factory making refrigerators and she makes about 40k a year. She is a union member, has traditional values like those you speak of, but will vote Democrat because of her labor concerns. My roommate's father, however, works at a Bristol Meyers Squibb plant making medications. They are non-union and his pay is closer to 6 figures (not sure exactly). You will be hard-pressed to find a Democrat in that place. My mom lives in a neighborhood with a lot of older homes and older people who are concerned about health care and other liberal issues. I see a lot of support for our Democratic congressional candidate and quite a bit of Kerry support (based on yard signs and bumper stickers.) My roommate's father lives out in McCutchenville which is a suburb on the north side full of gated communities. Just driving up there behind all the SUVs and Hummers, you'll know you're in Bush country.

[ZiSunka]

Well, like I said, I think it's more issues and values driven than class driven. People vote for the things they believe in, not according to their income levels.

[Lynn73]

My union (I work at a VA) has let us know that they endorse John Kerry, too. I don't care, I won't be voting for him. It's not required that you be a member of the union to have a job but people say they'll fight more to help someone having trouble if they're in the union so I play it safe and belong to it.