Iraq....whats your take on this???

[GreenEyedLady]

I recieved this email today. What do you think about it??????


IRAQ - VERY INTERESTING - DID YOU KNOW?







1. The garden of Eden was in Iraq.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

6 Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.

16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.

17. The wise men were from Iraq.

18. Peter preached in Iraq.

19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon, which was a city in Iraq!

And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia. The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name Iraq means country with deep roots.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated it than Iraq.

And also... This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !

[d0c markus]

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !

Most interesting. do you feel this prophecy in the Koran has been fulfilled and does that impact your faith?

[TwinCrier]

Actually, the Koran verse is false, but the rest of the info is true. Very interesting to read though. All those bible places have been renamed to it's cool to see what is happening there now.

[Gold Dragon]

Actually, the Koran verse is false, but the rest of the info is true. Very interesting to read though. All those bible places have been renamed to it's cool to see what is happening there now.
Agreed. Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/quran.asp)

Iraq is pivotal to biblical archeology and I hope progresses in this area would be one of the key benefits of toppling Sadaam.

[ZiSunka]

The part about the Koran is bogus. That verse really talks about islamic evangelism, NOT about eagles rising up, but it is reputed to be a key verse that was referenced often in the hijackers' diaries and things.

"But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know."

The attacks were about forcing America to accept Allah as the one true God. The Koran says they are to force conversions by violence if necessary, because Allah's true will can't be done until every human on earth has submitted (the meaning of the word "islam") to him.

[Glorified]

The attacks were about forcing America to accept Allah as the one true God. The Koran says they are to force conversions by violence if necessary, because Allah's true will can't be done until every human on earth has submitted (the meaning of the word "islam") to him.

Man that's scary.

[ZiSunka]

Man that's scary.
That's history. Look at Islamic history and you'll see a long series of invasions and forced conversions throughout Asia, southern Europe and northern Africa.

[Gold Dragon]

That's history. Look at Islamic history and you'll see a long series of invasions and forced conversions throughout Asia, southern Europe and northern Africa.History also tells us that some Christians have also used the bible to justify similar activities in the form of inquisitions, crusades, execution of heretics, Protestant/Catholic wars, etc.

[ZiSunka]

History also tells us that some Christians have also used the bible to justify similar activities in the form of inquisitions, crusades, execution of heretics, Protestant/Catholic wars, etc.
Strangely, not anabaptists...

But if you look at islamic history, the ENTIRE history is of invade and conquer. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Then read the Quran and the Haddith. It gives the instructions to invade and conquer so that Allah's ultimate work can be done. It's not just a history of violence, it is a religion that REQUIRES violence, because it teaches that no man can be assured of salvation UNLESS he dies in an act of jihad, or battle, for the faith.

Our religion teaches to love our enemies, theirs teaches to kill their enemies. Ours teaches to not act in aggression toward other religions, but theirs requires them to subdue and kill people of other religions. Ours teaches to show love to those who believe differently, but their teaches to give the unbelievers ONE chance to repent and join islam, and if they refuse, to kill them.

So, although it can be said that some people used the name of Christ in justification for killing others, IT WAS NEVER CHRIST'S TEACHING for us to do so. Not so with Mohammed and Allah.

[Gold Dragon]

But if you look at islamic history, the ENTIRE history is of invade and conquer. Don't take my word for it, look it up.No argument there.

Then read the Quran and the Haddith. It gives the instructions to invade and conquer so that Allah's ultimate work can be done. It's not just a history of violence, it is a religion that REQUIRES violence, because it teaches that no man can be assured of salvation UNLESS he dies in an act of jihad, or battle, for the faith.I think this is a disputable claim. While the Quran does have many violent passages, the same is true of our Bible. And western muslims would probably disagree that jihad requires physical violence. They view muslim extremists as misinterpreting scripture the same way we view christian extremists (abortion clinic bombers, KKK, etc) as misinterpreting scripture to justify their acts of violence. Unfortunately, violent conservative islam currently seems to be the norm rather than the exception. In previous times, the same could have been said of Christianity.

Wikipedia : jihad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad)


Muslims often refer to jihad in two connotations, ...

"lesser (outer) jihad"—a military struggle i.e. a holy war
"greater (inner) jihad"—the struggle of personal self-improvement against the self's base desires"
...

According to the Qur'an (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur%27an),

Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed ... those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is Allah. (22:39-40) The interpretation of Jihad varies widely among Muslims today.

Defensive Jihad, or armed struggle against foreign occupation or oppression is considered Jihad by most Muslims. In colonial times, the Muslim population often rose against the colonial authorities under the banner of Jihad (e.g. Daghestan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daghestan) and Chechens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen) against Tsarist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsarist) Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia), Indian Mutiny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Mutiny) against Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom), Algerians against France, etc.). In this sense, Jihad is no different from the right of armed resistance against occupation that is sanctioned under UN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN) and International Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Law).

Offensive Jihad, or conquering non-Muslim lands and bringing them under Muslim rule was historically called Jihad too, although the need for it today is disputed among Muslims. Some say that it was practiced only to preserve Islam from destruction, and that the concept is now obsolete because freedom of religious practice is present in most of the world. Note that, according to the histories of the time, this process was never accompanied by forced conversions (which are contrary to Islamic law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia).)

Jihad is sometimes referred to as "The sixth pillar of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_pillar_of_Islam)" in honour of its religious status and in reference to the Five Pillars of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam), although there is no Quranic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran) verses stating such, nor any hadiths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith).Our religion teaches to love our enemies, theirs teaches to kill their enemies. Ours teaches to not act in aggression toward other religions, but theirs requires them to subdue and kill people of other religions. Ours teaches to show love to those who believe differently, but their teaches to give the unbelievers ONE chance to repent and join islam, and if they refuse, to kill them.

So, although it can be said that some people used the name of Christ in justification for killing others, IT WAS NEVER CHRIST'S TEACHING for us to do so. Not so with Mohammed and Allah.I would agree that Mohammed is a much more violent man than Jesus was while on earth. And that has a large influence on the Muslim-Christian disparity in this regard.

[Iollain]

History also tells us that some Christians have also used the bible to justify similar activities in the form of inquisitions, crusades, execution of heretics, Protestant/Catholic wars, etc.

Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?

[ZiSunka]

The idea of jihad being an inner struggle is a 20th century invention that is given little credence in the islamic world. I doubt you can find a muslim scholar or holy man who would agree to take the idea of inner struggle to be a true jihad. I have discussed it with many muslim friends when I was in college, and none of them would say that inner struggle was equal in saving power to the violent definition of jihad. In fact, one iman I know said that the idea of jihad as an inner struggle was created because the real meaning of jihad frightens westerners, so they have sugar-coated it by making up the inner struggle definition. But virtually all agreed that true jihad is a military action taken up for the purpose of spreading islam, by force, partly to insure the salvation of the the soul. It is attractive because the only way to know for sure you are going to heaven is to die as a result of jihad. Whoever heard of anyone dying as the result of inner struggle, except through suicide? and the quran and haddith BOTH condemn anyone who commits suicide to hell, except those who die in an act of spreading or defending islam. So in reality although this alternate definition of jihad SOUNDS pleasant, it is woefully inaccurate and misleading.

[Grimace]

Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?One example:

Exodus 22:18 says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

This was used during the "burning times" to kill people accused of witchcraft (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn.htm)

If you're leary of internet sites for information, there are numerous books available that deal with the witch trials, including the Salem Witch Trials. You may want to read "A Delusion of Satan: The Full Story of the Salem Witch Trials," by Frances Hill, a fascinating (but a bit tedious) read.

[ZiSunka]

Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?
In ficiton books, mostly. One of the most revered texts that purports that 50 million people died as a result of persecution by Christians in the middle ages has been discredited in historical circles. The actual number, based on censuses and death records, is more like 10,000. Censuses don't lie. Either people are alive or dead. Death records wouldn't be likely to lie, either, since the catholic church was PROUD of the killings of the heretics. If anything, scholars agree, the records inflate the numbers to make individual bishops and churches look especially zealous and righteous.

It seems the author of that great history tome decided to include the numbers of people killed by the plague as Christian casualties because many blamed the superstitious inaction of the Roman Catholic church against the plague. Of course, no one had the ability to stop the plague, let alone the church, so even that charge is absurd once you get past the emotionalism of it.

Historians agree, though, that the number is around 10,000 all over Europe and the Middle East. Small potatoes compared to the islamic records that report the killing of 60,000 in one campaign in the Balkans alone in 1003 AD.

However, I firmly believe that even one killing in the name of Christ is heinous and dispicable. I'm not making excuses for what catholicism or anyone else did. I'm simply setting the record straight.

[Gold Dragon]

The idea of jihad being an inner struggle is a 20th century invention that is given little credence in the islamic world. I doubt you can find a muslim scholar or holy man who would agree to take the idea of inner struggle to be a true jihad. I have discussed it with many muslim friends when I was in college, and none of them would say that inner struggle was equal in saving power to the violent definition of jihad. In fact, one iman I know said that the idea of jihad as an inner struggle was created because the real meaning of jihad frightens westerners, so they have sugar-coated it by making up the inner struggle definition. But virtually all agreed that true jihad is a military action taken up for the purpose of spreading islam, by force, partly to insure the salvation of the the soul. It is attractive because the only way to know for sure you are going to heaven is to die as a result of jihad. Whoever heard of anyone dying as the result of inner struggle, except through suicide? and the quran and haddith BOTH condemn anyone who commits suicide to hell, except those who die in an act of spreading or defending islam. So in reality although this alternate definition of jihad SOUNDS pleasant, it is woefully inaccurate and misleading.
Fair enough. I'm just trying to present other perspectives. Thanks for your insight and sharing your experiences. I think elaborating on the idea of jihad and different perspectives on it can give us a better perspective of our Muslim neighbours.

[ZiSunka]

One example:

Exodus 22:18 says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

This was used during the "burning times" to kill people accused of witchcraft (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn.htm)

If you're leary of internet sites for information, there are numerous books available that deal with the witch trials, including the Salem Witch Trials. You may want to read "A Delusion of Satan: The Full Story of the Salem Witch Trials," by Frances Hill, a fascinating (but a bit tedious) read.Oh yes, the burning times...

Fiction. Created by people with an ax to grind against Christianity. There are no contemporary references to the alleged burning times. All references to it are from the mid 1800's at the earliest.

And I don't think any of the salem witches were burned, were they? Weren't they all hung??

[ZiSunka]

Fair enough. I'm just trying to present other perspectives. Thanks for your insight and sharing your experiences. I think elaborating on the idea of jihad and different perspectives on it can give us a better perspective of our Muslim neighbours.
I'm all for getting new perspectives on people, as long as those new perspectives are the truth. The idea of jihad as an inner struggle is not the truth.

[Gold Dragon]

Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?The original idea of the Inquisitions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition) was to supress heresy. As most fundamentalist Christians will remind you, this is a biblical principle that Paul and Jesus repeat many times to be wary of false prophets and teachers. However, in their zeal, many inquisitions went too far in their punishments, the worst of which was the famous Spanish Inquisition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition). Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm)

The Crusades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) were initially a reaction to Muslims conquering Israel and Jerusalem and was encouraged by the Popes under Just War Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_War). Pilgrimages to the Holy Land by European Christians was also a popular thing at that time and Muslim occupation threatened the safety of Christian pilgrims. The Popes drummed up support for the inital Crusades as a religous calling, drawing on the many passages of being a "soldier for Christ". Crusading to Muslim controlled territories became a popular religious experience all across Christian Europe. Similar to the promise of virgins in the afterlife for Muslims, Crusaders were promised full penance for their contributions to the crusades. Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm)

[Gold Dragon]

I'm all for getting new perspectives on people, as long as those new perspectives are the truth. The idea of jihad as an inner struggle is not the truth.
It is the truth to a minority of western Muslims.

[Gold Dragon]

Oh yes, the burning times...

Fiction. Created by people with an ax to grind against Christianity. There are no contemporary references to the alleged burning times. All references to it are from the mid 1800's at the earliest.

And I don't think any of the salem witches were burned, were they? Weren't they all hung??
I have never heard of this position before. Could you recommend some authors or websites who think that the Salem Witch Trials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_Witch_Trials)are fiction?

[Gold Dragon]

I think it is important to learn from the mistakes of past Christians who have abused scripture to justify violent acts. I believe that calling them fiction and pretending they didn't happen will facilitate repeating those errors in the future.

[SumTinWong]

First I ever heard that the witch trials were made up.

For another great example of how anyone can turn a love message to hate make sure you visit the deplorable Reverand Phelps and his brood of vipers at Westboro Baptist Church (http://www.godhates****.com). I find the Matthew Shepard tribute to be utterly disgusting...

Any sot can turn any religion into a cause for hate. There were zealots in the time of Jesus and there are zealots now. Some will say that the true face of Islam is peace and love. I am personally waiting for that example to show up.

[ZiSunka]

First I ever heard that the witch trials were made up.

For another great example of how anyone can turn a love message to hate make sure you visit the deplorable Reverand Phelps and his brood of vipers at Westboro Baptist Church (http://www.godhates****.com/). I find the Matthew Shepard tribute to be utterly disgusting...

Any sot can turn any religion into a cause for hate. There were zealots in the time of Jesus and there are zealots now. Some will say that the true face of Islam is peace and love. I am personally waiting for that example to show up.
The witch trials were not made up. The version in which 50 million witches were burned at the stake, including those in Salem, Mass, is made up. New York Times did a big article on it about three years ago. You might look for it on their website.

[ZiSunka]

I think it is important to learn from the mistakes of past Christians who have abused scripture to justify violent acts. I believe that calling them fiction and pretending they didn't happen will facilitate repeating those errors in the future.
I think any taking of human life is wrong. All acts of violence in the name of Christ are wrong. But what is fiction is fiction. I'm not trying to justify killing, I hate killing, all forms of killing by anyone. But truth is not advanced by lies. We don't have to rationalize, explain or feel guilty about things that never happened. Why cling to the lie that Chrisitans committed genocide against witches when it never happened?

[Gold Dragon]

I think any taking of human life is wrong. All acts of violence in the name of Christ are wrong. But what is fiction is fiction. I'm not trying to justify killing, I hate killing, all forms of killing by anyone. But truth is not advanced by lies. We don't have to rationalize, explain or feel guilty about things that never happened. Why cling to the lie that Chrisitans committed genocide against witches when it never happened?I don't think anybody here is trying to propogate that millions of "witches" died during the Salem Witch Trials. But as you admit, they did happen, mostly by hangings. Wikipedia list 25 people who died as a result of the Salem Witch Trials.

Earlier witch trials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trial) throughout Europe resulted in many more deaths, often by burning. Joan of Arc being the most famous one. Wikipedia lists 12,000 as their estimate of the number of witch executions known to have happened from 1400s-1700s. Most of the inflated numbers seen are guesses at how many unknown or unrecorded executions there may have been. Estimates range from 40,000 to 100,000.

[Grimace]

The witch trials were not made up. The version in which 50 million witches were burned at the stake, including those in Salem, Mass, is made up. New York Times did a big article on it about three years ago. You might look for it on their website.
If you had actually READ the article I posted, you would have seen why I had put "burning times" in quotes. I never said 50 million people were killed, either. Really, you should actually read what I posted (and the article I linked to) before attributing such things to me.

Example quote from website I linked to: The facts are that almost all of the information that is generally accepted as truth by the Neopagan community about the "burning times" is wrong:
See what happens when you don't read things? :doh:

And yes, the Salem "Witches" were hung, not burned, but I don't see how that justifies anything. The "burning times" is a general term used to describe the era of persecution from Christians against witches and pagans from the 14th to 18th centuries. Which did happen, sad to say.

[Carrye]

Please pray for Iraq. There's a population of Catholics there as well as other Christians. A friend of mine is actually a Chaldean rite Catholic priest, and Chaldeans are from Iraq. His parents were actually born in Iraq, though he was born in the States, and they still have both strong religious and cultural ties there.

[Iollain]

Egret and superstition were the cause of the 'witch' trials, imo. I've read they used counter-witchcraft to find out who the 'witches' were.

I was wondering about other killings and torture, did they actually use the bible?

[Gold Dragon]

Egret and superstition were the cause of the 'witch' trials, imo. I've read they used counter-witchcraft to find out who the 'witches' were.

I was wondering about other killings and torture, did they actually use the bible?I tried to address your question in post #18.

Another example of abusing the bible to justify killing, torture, terror and hatred is obviously the KKK.

Imperial Klans of America: Klan Beliefs (http://www.k-k-k.com/literature.htm)

Doctrinal Statement Of Beliefs

The following is a brief statement of our major doctrinal beliefs as taught by the Holy Scriptures. This list is not exhaustive, but a basic digest defining the true faith once delivered to the saints. For a further explanation of our beliefs and the implications of these truths, please contact us.

...

WE BELIEVE the White, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic and kindred people to be God's true, literal Children of Israel. Only this race fulfills every detail of Biblical Prophecy and World History concerning Israel and continues in these latter days to be heirs and possessors of the Covenants, Prophecies, Promises and Blessings YHVH God made to Israel. This chosen seedline making up the "Christian Nations" (Gen. 35:11; Isa. 62:2; Acts 11:26) of the earth stands far superior to all other peoples in their call as God's servant race (Isa. 41:8, 44:21; Luke 1:54). Only these descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad (James 1:1; Deut. 4:27; Jer. 31:10; John 11:52) have carried God's Word, the Bible, throughout the world (Gen. 28:14; Isa. 43:10-12, 59:21), have used His Laws in the establishment of their civil governments and are the "Christians" opposed by the Satanic Anti-Christ forces of this world who do not recognize the true and living God (John 5:23, 8:19, 16:2-3).

WE BELIEVE in an existing being known as the Devil or Satan and called the Serpent (Gen. 3:1; Rev. 12:9), who has a literal "seed" or posterity in the earth (Gen. 3:15) commonly called Jews today (Rev. 2:9; 3:9; Isa. 65:15). These children of Satan (John 8:44-47; Matt. 13:38; John 8:23) through Cain (I John 2:22, 4:3) who have throughout history always been a curse to true Israel, the Children of God, because of a natural enmity between the two races (Gen. 3:15), because they do the works of their father the Devil (John 8:38-44), and because they please not God, and are contrary to all men (I Thes. 2:14-15), though they often pose as ministers of righteousness (II Cor. 11:13-15). The ultimate end of this evil race whose hands bear the blood of our Savior (Matt. 27:25) and all the righteous slain upon the earth (Matt. 23:35), is Divine judgment (Matt. 13:38-42, 15:13; Zech. 14:21

...
While the Klan is now considered a fringe element, for a period of American history, many mainstream Christians were either Klan members or sympathetic to the Klan.

[Iollain]

Yeah your right about the KKK, they believe that their main enemy is the Jews. Still reading stuff from post #18... thanks for the info.