Exorcism - performed by Catholics only?

[FR0G]

Please corect me if I am mistaken, but i believe Catholic Priests are the only clergy who perform exorcisms? Do non-Catholics simply not believe in demon possession? If no, what is the reason we don't see exorcisms performed by other clergy?

[JVAC]

My sister's old roomate, had a father, that wasn't Catholic, who performed Excorcisms. Actually I think he was Anabaptist (broad sense).

[II Paradox II]

Please corect me if I am mistaken, but i believe Catholic Priests are the only clergy who perform exorcisms? Do non-Catholics simply not believe in demon possession? If no, what is the reason we don't see exorcisms performed by other clergy? No, other clergy perform exorcism. Typically you find more of this sort of stuff among charismatics and pentecostals, though it is not unheard of for mainline and evangelical protestants either. I have a few friends at a local charismatic church who claimed to have seen a few in the last couple of years...

btw - check this out - it's an interesting paper on exorcism and ecclesial issues (http://216.239.33.104/search?q=cache:gLpaIWxppCYJ:www.uq.edu.au/access_history/three-one/exorcism.pdf+exorcism+puritan&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) between various churches. I don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to be decently researced

ken

[Oblio]

So do Orthodox. The rite is performed prior to Baptism/Chrismation.

[Phoebe]

I don't know how many would admit to it.

[Svt4Him]

My father didn't believe in it, until someone his pastor was praying for started doing the funky chicken in church.

[ByzantineDixie]

Typically you find more of this sort of stuff among charismatics and pentecostals, though it is not unheard of for mainline and evangelical protestants either. I have a few friends at a local charismatic church who claimed to have seen a few in the last couple of years...


Actually I witnessed one and it was at a Charismatic/Pentacostal event. Lest this be dismissed too easily...the voice coming out of the woman was distinctly male (very creepy) and the incident was off to the side...not a part of some kind of "show".

There is this nagging question in the back of my mind. Why are these manifestations not as common in the mainline evangelical protestant churches? What do you think that means? :confused:

Rose

[Svt4Him]

Rose, why were these manifestations common when Jesus was around? Hmmm, what do you think that means?

[Preachers12]

Rose, why were these manifestations common when Jesus was around? Hmmm, what do you think that means?
Svt4Him, God give you Peace.

That brings up an interesting question. How has Satan's power (that is, his ability to exercise that power) on earth changed since the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus? Or has it changed at all?

God Bless,
P12

[Phoebe]

I think there are still some posessed people. Charles Manson comes to mind immediately. Have you ever heard that man speak? It gives me the willies. I saw an interview with him on TV back in the late 80's.

In the Bible, how many times does it mention that Jesus exorcised demons? I think he healed the sick more often.
Maybe it seems like the modern world has less need of Priests, and more need for medication.

[Preachers12]

In the Bible, how many times does it mention that Jesus exorcised demons? I think he healed the sick more often.
Maybe it seems like the modern world has less need of Priests, and more need for medication.
Phoebe, God give you Peace.

Do you think that Jesus' healing of people with physical illnesses was only about healing those physical illnesses? What might Jesus have been showing us in performing these healings?

God Bless,
P12

[razzelflabben]

I have a very dear friend from Haiti, his father is a x-vodoo priest. My friend came to the US to go to school which is where I met him. The one thing that struck him is how much denial and lack of understanding about demons there is here in the states. I think when you couple this with fear and lack of teaching, things appear much different than they really are. He and others I know who are not afraid to deal with demons and demon possession, have always emphasised the importance of being spiritually right before tackling such a situation. For if we are not spiritually filled when we deal with a possessed individual, we open ourselves to the possibility of the demons finding us as their new home.

XXDo you think that Jesus' healing of people with physical illnesses was only about healing those physical illnesses? What might Jesus have been showing us in performing these healings?XX
I think what Jesus wanted us to learn was that when we meet the needs of people, in His name, they have freedom to listen to the words we would like to share with them about God's love. Jesus was a very hands on kind of teacher, He showed love, not just taught love. How often do see have the same focus? From my experiences, I am afraid, all to seldom. Jesus was showing us a hands on kind of Love that we need to take out into the world with us.

[Phoebe]

Phoebe, God give you Peace.

Do you think that Jesus' healing of people with physical illnesses was only about healing those physical illnesses? What might Jesus have been showing us in performing these healings?

God Bless,
P12Nope. Never said it was only about healing the illness. Never thought it, either.

He was teaching us that we can rely on Him for everything. That faith can make us whole, even when our bodies aren't.

[Phoebe]

BTW- How many documented healings were there?

[Oblio]

From the Rite of Holy Baptism (http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/baptism_e.htm):

1st Prayer of Exorcism.

Priest: Let us pray to the Lord.

Choir: Lord, have mercy.


THE LORD PUTS you under a ban, O Devil: He who came into the world, and made His abode among men, that He might overthrow your tyranny and deliver men; who also upon the Tree did triumph over the adverse powers, when the sun was darkened, and the earth did quake, and the graves were opened, and the bodies of the Saints arose; who also by death annihilated Death, and overthrew him who exercised the dominion of Death, that is you, the Devil.

I charge you by God, who revealed the Tree of Life, and arrayed in ranks the Cherubim and the flaming sword which turns all ways to guard it: be under a ban. For I charge you by Him who walked upon the surface of the sea as it were dry land, and laid under His ban the tempests of the winds; whose glance dries up the deep, and whose interdict makes the mountains melt away. The same now, through us, puts you under a ban. Fear, begone, and depart from this creature, and return not again, neither hide yourself in him neither seek to meet him, nor to influence him, either by night or by day; either in the morning or at noonday; but depart hence to your own infernal abyss until the great Judgment Day which is ordained. Fear God who sits upon the Cherubim and looks upon the deeps; before whom tremble Angels and Archangels, Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, Authorities, Powers, the many-eyed Cherubim and the six-winged Seraphim; before whom, likewise, heaven and earth do quake, the seas and all that they contain. Begone, and depart from this sealed, newly enlisted warrior of Christ our God. For I charge you by Him who rides upon the wings of the wind, and makes His Angels spirits, and His ministers a flaming fire: Begone, and depart from this creature, with all your powers and your angels.

For glorified is the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now, and ever, and unto ages of ages.


Choir: Amen.




4th Prayer of Exorcism.


Priest: Let us pray to the Lord.

Choir: Lord, have mercy.


O LORD AND MASTER; who hast created man in Thine own likeness, and bestowed upon him the power of life eternal; who also despisest not those who have fallen away through sin, but hast provided salvation for the world through the Incarnation of Thy Christ: Do Thou, the same Lord, delivering also this Thy creature from the bondage of the enemy, receive him into Thy heavenly kingdom. Open the eyes of his understanding, that the illumination of Thy Gospel may shine brightly in him. Assign unto him an angel of light, who shall deliver him from every snare of the adversary, from encounter with evil, from the demon of the noonday, and from evil thoughts.

Expel from him every evil and unclean spirit which hides and makes its lair in his heart, (these words are repeated three times while breathing on the catechumen)

— the spirit of deceit, the spirit of evil, the spirit of idolatry and of every covetousness; the spirit of falsehood and of every uncleanness which operates through the prompting of the Devil. And make him a reason-endowed sheep in the holy flock of Thy Christ, an honorable member of Thy Church, a child of the light, and an heir of Thy Kingdom; that having lived in accordance with Thy commandments, and preserved inviolate the Seal, and kept his garment undefiled, he may receive the blessedness of the Saints in Thy Kingdom.

Through the grace and bounties, and love towards mankind of Thine Only-begotten Son, with whom Thou art blessed, together with Thine all-holy and good and life-giving Spirit: now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.


Choir: Amen.


The sponsors with the catechumen turn about and face the West, with their backs to the priest. The priest then asks the following questions.


Priest: Do you renounce Satan, and all his works, and all his angels, and all his service, and all his pride?

Catechumen: I do renounce him. (This is repeated three times)

Priest: Have you renounced Satan?

Catechumen: I have renounced him. (This is repeated three times)


Priest: Breathe and spit upon him.


The sponsors and the catechumen to be baptized spit symbolically toward the west. Then they turn back to the East, and stand facing the priest.


Priest: Do you unite yourself unto Christ?

Catechumen: I do unite myself to Christ. (This is repeated three times)

Priest: Have you united yourself to Christ?

Catechumen: I have united myself to Christ. (This is repeated three times).

Priest: Do you believe in Him?

Catechumen: I believe in Him as King and God.

[Phoebe]

That is awesome, Oblio!

[ByzantineDixie]

Rose, why were these manifestations common when Jesus was around? Hmmm, what do you think that means?

Ya, I know and when I make the connection the result is very disturbing. I think about this often. Especially how it indicts the effectiveness of some mainline denominations. We must not be much of a threat.....

Rose

[II Paradox II]

Actually I witnessed one and it was at a Charismatic/Pentacostal event. Lest this be dismissed too easily...the voice coming out of the woman was distinctly male (very creepy) and the incident was off to the side...not a part of some kind of "show".
There is some weird stuff that goes on in the world. I know some of it is fake and apocryphal, but I've seen and heard of enough legitimate occasions to make me believe at least some of it is real.

There is this nagging question in the back of my mind. Why are these manifestations not as common in the mainline evangelical protestant churches? What do you think that means? :confused:
My own personal suspicion is that these things are not common in such churches because Satan conforms his attacks on people according to their own temperments and beliefs. Why do all sorts of weird occultic stuff around people not inherently accustomed to take such things seriously? It would be much more effective to draw them into sins of greed and lust and other things closer to their hearts.

Trying to put a skeptical modern man into spiritual bondage by scaring him with ghost stories isn't going to be effective if he just thinks it's his own mind and that the problem can be fixed with some meds and a long vacation. However, attack someone who is already steeped in a "spritual" worldview and he will be instantly drawn in.

I don't know if this explanation is true to the way God and Satan work, but I do suspect that our own expectations color the way both God and Satan interact with us such that their actions are more effective in our lives.

ken

[Preachers12]

BTW- How many documented healings were there?
Phoebe, God give you Peace.

There are a total of 33 individual miracles recorded in the Gospels between Cana and Calvary. Of those, 8 show power over inanimate nature (water to wine, calming the tempest, etc...), 6 show casting out of demons, 15 are healings, 1 is a restored ear and 3 are raising the dead.

The only observation I wanted to draw people's attention to earlier was that, at least with regard to the healings that Jesus performed, those were done to demonstrate in a physical way His power over sin. His ability to forgive sin. This was, after all, one of His main reasons for coming! It was also what ultimately led to the Sadduccees and Pharisees seeking His death.

Recall that to the Jews, people's afflictions were considered to be a punishment for their sins. Many people still make, in my opinion, the mistake of thinking that today. Jesus, as in the miracle of the healing of the man lowered down on a pallet, demonstated to the people around this very concept when instead of at first healing the man brought to Him, He forgave his sins. Then, when they questioned His authority to do that, He asked which would be harder, to forgive sin or tell the man to take up his pallet and walk? You probably recall the story. In the end, Jesus told the man to take up his pallet and walk. (It is interesting to note how this same story was told a bit differently in the Gospels).

The sicknesses which Jesus cured were only the symptom. He didn't just cure their symptoms, He cured the illness (sin) itself.

God Bless,
P12

[ydouxist]

Please corect me if I am mistaken, but i believe Catholic Priests are the only clergy who perform exorcisms? Do non-Catholics simply not believe in demon possession? If no, what is the reason we don't see exorcisms performed by other clergy?
I'm not Catholic and God used me twice.

[Holy Warrior]

I don't think you need to be an ordained clergyman to cast out demons (according to the catholic church you do, I think) you just need a strong faith in the Lord-through Him all things are possible.

[razzelflabben]

Ya, I know and when I make the connection the result is very disturbing. I think about this often. Especially how it indicts the effectiveness of some mainline denominations. We must not be much of a threat.....

Rose
How do we draw this conclusion? Demon possession is more prevelant that we would be comfortable knowing. In addition, so is deception. How often do we look at Satan, his demons, and his deceptions and fail to see who it really is. Whether we are blinded to it by teaching, lies, fears, etc. Or whether we are blinded by our own lack of knowing God and His truth is an individual thing. What does demon possession look like? 2 Cor. 11:14-15 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. We know some of the appearances of the deciever, but it is only through the revelation of the Holy Spirit that we can see the deceiver.

[ej]

I don't think you need to be an ordained clergyman to cast out demons (according to the catholic church you do, I think) you just need a strong faith in the Lord-through Him all things are possible.
Been on attachment at WGH yet?
A good few of the wards there have been exorcised.

[ByzantineDixie]

How do we draw this conclusion? Demon possession is more prevelant that we would be comfortable knowing. In addition, so is deception. How often do we look at Satan, his demons, and his deceptions and fail to see who it really is. Whether we are blinded to it by teaching, lies, fears, etc. Or whether we are blinded by our own lack of knowing God and His truth is an individual thing. What does demon possession look like? 2 Cor. 11:14-15 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. We know some of the appearances of the deciever, but it is only through the revelation of the Holy Spirit that we can see the deceiver.

Razzelflabben, I believe you make an excellent point and one akin to mine. We can't be much of a threat to satan's plans if we do not recognize the his works. And why don't more recognize? The disciples were admonished by Jesus to be "shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves". Where do the mainline denominations fail in terms of growing up the sheep to be "shrewd as snakes"? Or do they?

I agree wholeheartedly there are individuals who are led by the Spirit and can discern the works of the enemy and recognize demon possession but would you agree this happens more so in some denominations than others (specifically charismatics and Catholics and EOs)? I could be wrong...my thoughts are really just based on anecdotal information and my experience.

I do know I am not real comfortable talking about demon possession with many Christians I know...it's as if they believe in it because the Bible speaks of it but they don't believe it could happen in their own backyard. I have heard some make excuses for why we do not see so much demon possession today. I was told that demon possession was not a tactic the enemy needed to use anymore because it no longer scares anyone...people have learned to explain away unnatural pheonomena. I don't buy into this argument. I've seen it...it's plenty scary (in a way--would be real scary if I were not one of Christ's lambs). Of course there is another angle...that if these possessions happened frequently and demons are cast out in the name of Jesus this would actually turn more people to Christ which is something satan would not want.

I'll admit, I am on a fishing expedition...looking for other views and perspectives. Thanks

Rose

[razzelflabben]

Razzelflabben, I believe you make an excellent point and one akin to mine. We can't be much of a threat to satan's plans if we do not recognize the his works. And why don't more recognize? The disciples were admonished by Jesus to be "shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves". Where do the mainline denominations fail in terms of growing up the sheep to be "shrewd as snakes"? Or do they?

I agree wholeheartedly there are individuals who are led by the Spirit and can discern the works of the enemy and recognize demon possession but would you agree this happens more so in some denominations than others (specifically charismatics and Catholics and EOs)? I could be wrong...my thoughts are really just based on anecdotal information and my experience.

I do know I am not real comfortable talking about demon possession with many Christians I know...it's as if they believe in it because the Bible speaks of it but they don't believe it could happen in their own backyard. I have heard some make excuses for why we do not see so much demon possession today. I was told that demon possession was not a tactic the enemy needed to use anymore because it no longer scares anyone...people have learned to explain away unnatural pheonomena. I don't buy into this argument. I've seen it...it's plenty scary (in a way--would be real scary if I were not one of Christ's lambs). Of course there is another angle...that if these possessions happened frequently and demons are cast out in the name of Jesus this would actually turn more people to Christ which is something satan would not want.

I'll admit, I am on a fishing expedition...looking for other views and perspectives. Thanks

Rose
Now we are getting into some meat, yummm (just a joke, don't shot me just yet)

When I speak in relation to the denominations, it is important to understand that I speak only from my experience, not from a Biblical standpoint. My views of demons and demon possession however, is based off Biblical teaching, teaching from those who battle with demons regularly, (such as my Haitian friend), and from experience. I would ask that anyone reading my posts on this issue understand these differences and therefore do not make my words about something that they are not.

One overriding problem that my husband and I both see in the "Church" (church in quotes, referring to the body of Christ without distinction for denomination) is a lack of Biblical teaching and understanding on many issues one of those issues being demons and demon possession. For those who read the scripture without studying, just read, it is easy to gloss over the subject of demon possession as something from Biblical days because at least in the US, society does not acknowledge the existance of such a thing. The other problem is that it is not a tangable thing, like God, we can see evidence but evidence is not the same thing as seeing the cause of the evidence.

As to why there is a lack of teaching, it seems to me that the lack of teaching on Godly things has been going on for centuries. We want to keep the peace, stay socially acceptable, some churches are more focused on money or numbers, or swinging the pendulum from the hell fire and brimstone lessons of old, etc., to care about what God is really saying. Couple this with a fear of what we might find if we ask the hard questions and listen for the tough answers and we have a watered down, wishy washy, christian belief that extends into all denominations, casts, and religions. In fact, it is in the third world countries where most of the fight against demon possession is going on, is strong, and is freeing people. The same countries where it is a serious matter and requires much dedication to be a believer of Christ.

The solution is to truely study, open yourself to God completely, and ask, listen to the hard questions and answers. I think the church has always fought this lack of understanding and teaching, that is why Jesus had so much to say to the pharisees. Lord, let us look past our own comforts and into the eyes and heart of the One who knows all.

[RhetorTheo]

Mental illness is generally treated as mental illness today, rather than demonic possession.

[razzelflabben]

Mental illness is generally treated as mental illness today, rather than demonic possession.
I think it is safe to say that some mental illness, is just that, mental illness. Other cases are demon possession but in the US, we have abandond the spiritual health of people for a feel good, wealth mentality.

[Bastoune]

I don't think you need to be an ordained clergyman to cast out demons (according to the catholic church you do, I think) you just need a strong faith in the Lord-through Him all things are possible.

An ordained clergyman is "preferred" because they would have the training to do so... but not necessary. I, a lay person, was used as an instrument of the Lord to perform exorcisms. We all have the same Spirit. The Spirit will move as He needs to and chooses.

[ByzantineDixie]

Please help me understand this passage in Mark 9.

The Healing of a Boy with an Evil Spirit

14When they came to the other disciples, they saw a large crowd around them and the teachers of the law arguing with them. 15As soon as all the people saw Jesus, they were overwhelmed with wonder and ran to greet him.
16"What are you arguing with them about?" he asked.
17A man in the crowd answered, "Teacher, I brought you my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech. 18Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not."
19"O unbelieving generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy to me."
20So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.
21Jesus asked the boy's father, "How long has he been like this?"
22"From childhood," he answered. "It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us."
23" 'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes."
24Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!"
25When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the evil[1] spirit. "You deaf and mute spirit," he said, "I command you, come out of him and never enter him again."
26The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, "He's dead." 27But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.
28After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked him privately, "Why couldn't we drive it out?"
29He replied, "This kind can come out only by prayer."

If this kind of demon can only come out by prayer...how do the other kinds of demons come out...on command in Jesus name only? Those of you who have cast out demons...can you describe what "different ways" you have used?

How do you get to the point that you are in a position to cast out the demon...did the person tell you and ask for help? Did an outbreak in a church meeting reveal the demon? Or have you just gone up to someone and issue the command? I need advice--I have a concern about a friend.

Thanks,
Rose