Explain Lutheranism to a Presbyterian

[Kuwanyauma]

Hello! :) I'm in the process of looking for a new church, and I've found one that I really like - only they're ELCA and I'm Presbyterian! I don't really know much about how y'all operate...what things should I know about Lutherans?

[KagomeShuko]

Hello! :) I'm in the process of looking for a new church, and I've found one that I really like - only they're ELCA and I'm Presbyterian! I don't really know much about how y'all operate...what things should I know about Lutherans?
Hi! I'm ELCA, too. I was looking for my confirmation book (don't worry, it's just something I wanted - not important to this short post here), but I couldn't find it. Anyway, I doubt I would've used it for this anyway! I've just wanted it for awhile! :holy:

ELCA -
1) We follow Luther's small catechim. This includes the Apostle's Creed, the Ten Commandments, The Lord's Prayer, and the Eucharist (Lord's supper; communion).
2) We believe in open communion - if you believe in Jesus and that he died and rose again and is God's son, you are welcome to receive communion.
3) Infant baptism - we baptism infants and then people reaffirm their faith usually by going to classes and what has to be done is different just depending on the pastor - I had to write a paper, some people have to answer a series of questions, learn about the church year, etc. These classes are usually called "confirmation classes" and when you complete them you are "confirmed" in the church. The service is "affirmation of baptism."
4) We also believe in the Anathasian's Creed and the Nicene's creed.
5) We do ordain women pastors.

That's a short introduction to ELCA. If you're looking for what these things are, I suggest you take a look :doh: at the thread called "Luther's Small Catachism."

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[LuxPerpetua]

Phooey. I had a whole thing typed up and it got erased. GRRR! Anyway, I'm LCMS and I encourage you to look at our website: http://www.lcms.org/

Here is what our website has regarding differences with Presbyterianism:

Q. How does the Missouri Synod differ from the Presbyterian Church?

A. As is the case with most mainline denominations today, there are specific issues such as the ordination of women, abortion, homosexuality, etc., that divide the distinct Presbyterian church bodies (for example, the Presbyterian Church in the USA (PCUSA) and the more conservative Presbyterian Church in America (PCA)). Such differences typically stem from more fundamental differences concerning the authority of Scripture itself. Having said this, the major theological differences between historic Lutheranism and Presbyterianism (and other churches of Calvinistic background and theological orientation) include the following:

The centrality of the Gospel. Presbyterian churches tend to emphasize the "glory" or "sovereignty" of God as the central teaching of Scripture, while Lutherans believe that the central teaching of Scripture--and the key to understanding and interpreting the Bible-is the Gospel: the Good News of Salvation for sinners by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

The nature of Christ's atonement. Lutherans believe that when Jesus died on the cross He atoned for the sins of all people of all time-even those who have not or will not come to faith in Christ and will spend eternity in hell. Some Presbyterian churches teach a "limited atonement" of Christ, i.e., that Christ's death on the cross atoned only for the sins of "the elect"--those who have been predestined from eternity to believe in Christ and will spend eternity with Him in heaven.

Predestination. Most Presbyterian churches teach a "double predestination," i.e., that some people are predestined by God from eternity to be saved and others are predestined by God from eternity to be damned. Lutherans believe that while God, in his grace in Christ Jesus, has indeed chosen from eternity to save those who trust in Jesus Christ, He has not predestined anyone to damnation. Those who are saved are saved by grace alone; those who are damned are damned not by God's choice but because of their own sin and stubbornness. This is a mystery that is incomprehensible to human reason (as are all true Scriptural articles of faith).

The authority of Scripture. A fourth difference has to do with the proper use of reason and its relationship to the authority of Scripture. Lutherans look to Scripture alone as the source of all Christian doctrine, and hold to the teachings of Scripture even when they are incomprehensible to human reason. Some Presbyterian churches tend to place human reason alongside Scripture as a source of doctrinal authority, and seek to bring seemingly paradoxical Scriptural truths into harmony with human reason in ways that (in our view) undermine the truthfulness and authority of Scripture.

The Sacraments. Most Presbyterian churches (to a greater or lesser degree) view the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper merely as "signs" or "symbols" of God's grace. Lutherans believe that Baptism and the Lord's Supper (which is the true body and blood of Christ in, with, and under bread and wine) are actual means of God's grace through which the Holy Spirit works to convey and/or strengthen faith.

[KagomeShuko]

Hello! :) I'm in the process of looking for a new church, and I've found one that I really like - only they're ELCA and I'm Presbyterian! I don't really know much about how y'all operate...what things should I know about Lutherans?
And of course, you can always visit the ELCA website, too - www.elca.org (http://www.elca.org) (silly of me to forget that!) Thanks, Lux for putting the LCMS website so I'd remember to put the ELCA website!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[LuxPerpetua]

No prob, Bridget ;)

In fact, maybe Recht can post the WELS website, just to round things out (these are the 3 major Lutheran bodies in the US--LCMS, ELCA, and WELS). We all confess the same beliefs found in the Lutheran Book of Concord (an abridgment of which is the Small Catechism) but we differ mainly in regard to congregational "politics": women voting in the church, open or close communion, women pastors, episcopacy, and on some moral issues like abortion (let me clarify that by stating that NO Lutheran church advocates abortion, but rather the ELCA is not as much against it as LCMS and WELS). From what I've found, WELS is the most traditional and conservative, ELCA the most liberal (especially in its approach to understanding Scripture, although, as a friend of mine, JVAC, always states, liberal for a Lutheran is still pretty conservative). LCMS is also very conservative but does allow women to have a say within the church just not act as pastors.

It really isn't as complicated as what it seems, I promise. Not too long ago I myself was "church shopping" and found Lutheranism here at CF. What I love about it is that it is totally Christ-centered (everything points to Christ and what God has done for us in Christ) and Scripture-focused. Scripture is the final authority, but traditions that are not contradicted by Scripture are kept as well. It really is a wonderful church, and Lutheran pastors are some of the best educated ministers out in the world. Christian education is given a really high priority, and so, as you will find, Lutherans have a lot of Christian schools that are affiliated with their parishes.

Best of luck with your search! :)

[KagomeShuko]

No prob, Bridget ;)

In fact, maybe Recht can post the WELS website, just to round things out
That would be great, really!
abortion (let me clarify that by stating that NO Lutheran church advocates abortion, but rather the ELCA is not as much against it as LCMS and WELS).
I don't know the ELCA's official stance on abortion, but I'm an ELCAer that doesn't believe in abortion unless the mother's life is at risk.

liberal for a Lutheran is still pretty conservative).

:D This is most certainly true! :D

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Phoebe]

We believe Christ is present in the Eucharist.
We are saved by grace through faith.
We have two Sacraments, Baptism and Holy Communion. (we baptize infants)
The ELCA ordains women.
ELCA congregations have open communion.
Lutherans don't buy into decision theology.

I don't know much about the Presbyterian church, so you'll need to make the comparisons. :)

[SPALATIN]

LCMS is also very conservative but does allow women to have a say within the church just not act as pastors.


Best of luck with your search! :)

I want to add something to this sentence here Lux. The LCMS in 1969 opened it up for congregations to allow women's suffrage if they so wanted. There are still quite a few churches that have not elected to do so. So it is not necessarily a synod-wide edict.

[Kuwanyauma]

Lutherans don't buy into decision theology.

What is decision theology? :confused:

Thanks for all of the information! Actually, in terms of what I believe, it sounds like I've been more of a Lutheran (well, ELCA at least ;) ) than a Presbyterian all along! I never really bought into the whole predestination thing...

[SPALATIN]

What is decision theology? :confused:

Thanks for all of the information! Actually, in terms of what I believe, it sounds like I've been more of a Lutheran (well, ELCA at least ;) ) than a Presbyterian all along! I never really bought into the whole predestination thing...
Decision theology--Where it is taught that we have any responsibility for our salvation. Most often taught at Billy Graham crusades. Most often taught in the Baptist church where the belief is held that one must "accept" Jesus into their heart.

The reason that Lutherans don't buy into this is that we believe that God doesn't call us to "accept" Christ rather that God, through his son did everything needed for salvation. He has called us to repentence and faith and he even gives us faith as a gift so that it is nothing of ourselves and takes away our right to boast.

[Bradford]

Stupid (but important) question time...

What Presbyterian church are you part of now? PCUSA, PCA, OPC, or one of the smaller ones (ARPC, RPCNA, etc...)?

[Kuwanyauma]

I'm part of the PCUSA. I have to admit, I'd never actually heard of most of those smaller groups! :)

[SPALATIN]

I'm part of the PCUSA. I have to admit, I'd never actually heard of most of those smaller groups! :)
I was looking at your handle WWDJ487. In Lutheranism we would maybe change one letter. The second W would become a D. Thus would read WDJD which stands for "What did Jesus do?" I am guessing that the 487 may be the month and year you were born?

[Kuwanyauma]

Actually, I was born on 2/24/87. The numbers made sense when I came up with the name...
Thanks for all of the information! :)

[SPALATIN]

Actually, I was born on 2/24/87. The numbers made sense when I came up with the name...
Thanks for all of the information! :)
That's ok. You have a very nice photo. The purpose of my post was that in saying what did Jesus do we are putting emphasis on the fact that his mission has been accomplished and because of this we are redeemed.

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

[KagomeShuko]

That's ok. You have a very nice photo. The purpose of my post was that in saying what did Jesus do we are putting emphasis on the fact that his mission has been accomplished and because of this we are redeemed.

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.
I heard that Lost And Found and some other Lutheran leaders challenged youth awhile ago to use "WDJD" instead of "WWJD." I read it somewhere on the Internet. I've been thinking that I need to make myself a homemade "WDJD" bracelet since it would definitely get questions down here in Lake Charles! A great way to start spreading the gospel!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[SPALATIN]

I heard that Lost And Found and some other Lutheran leaders challenged youth awhile ago to use "WDJD" instead of "WWJD." I read it somewhere on the Internet. I've been thinking that I need to make myself a homemade "WDJD" bracelet since it would definitely get questions down here in Lake Charles! A great way to start spreading the gospel!

Stein Auf!
Bridget
Here is an actual link to a "Sermon4kids"
http://www.sermons4kids.com/what-did-jesus-do.html

It might be interesting to read.

[KagomeShuko]

Here is an actual link to a "Sermon4kids"
http://www.sermons4kids.com/what-did-jesus-do.html

It might be interesting to read.
Nice site and interesting. The first article I ever saw is this one: http://www.thelutheran.org/0201/page16a.html

The second one I saw is this one: http://users.rcn.com/tlclcms/notwwjd.html

However, if you go to http://www.wdjd.org don't believe that stuff! That's a bad site. . .I can tell from what it says. . .has a link to Jerry Falwell, too. I'm not sure what to think about that.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Kuwanyauma]

If I 'convert', I'll change my username. ;)