Formal Debate Invitation: Scripture Proves The Cessastion of Miraculous Gifts

[Nazarite]

I have yet to conduct a formal debate on this website. I am interested in a full debate on the cessation of miraculous gifts. I would be interested in both affirming the end of the age of miraculous gifts and denying the present possession of miraculous gifts. I believe this debate would be best conducted between myself and one individual rather as per my understanding of the formal debate rules. I certainly am not making any assertion as to the soul salvation of my opponent. I would simply like to debate this matter with an interested individual. Let's discuss putting such a discussion together.

[Nazarite]

As I mentioned, I haven't debated on this website. I am surprised at the lack of interest on this topic.

[alexeeah]

While I am not really interested in a debate on whether the gifts exist or not I do want to say that I am sure they do considering I had cancer and was instantly healed from it. I had HPV and was healed from it (it is incureable) I had a lump in my left side, and after a prayer was said it instantly dissappeared never to return and after going to many many services for such events at our church I have seen hundreds of miracles. To refute them is to blaspheme the holy spirit, the one unforgivable sin so be careful what you say in this "Debate".

[Nazarite]

Alexeeah,


I appreciate your reply and would like to take a moment to clarify my terms. Miracles are part of the set of supernatural events but not all supernatural events are miracles. Let me explain. You and I would likely agree that the Scriptures give evidence for our Father's supernatural work in the life of Esther. While His name is only vaguely referenced in this volume of Scripture we see Him actively working throughout the life of Esther and guiding the events that will save His people through Esther's bravery. However a miracle is never preformed in this story. I believe that Scripture will bear out the fact that the purpose of miracles as defined:

an event in the external world brought about by the immediate agency or the simple volition of God, operating without the use of means capable of being discerned by the senses, and designed to authenticate the divine commission of a religious teacher and the truth of his message (John 2:18 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=joh+2:18); Matthew 12:38 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+12:38)). (Easton Bible Dictionary)
is to confirm the word of God.

Since we now have a canon of Scripture that is fixed, I would argue that miracles preformed by men are no longer necessary and in fact ceased in the first century or no later than the second century.

So I intend to argue that Scripture will back me up on this. I certainly recognize that there are and will continue to be many experiences which are without human explanation. I have also experienced events to which I can only attribute a Divine explanation. However, I have not witnessed an authentic miracle as preformed by the apostles of Jesus in the NT Scriptures. I believe that is because no man has such ability today.

As to the reference of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit," in the context in which Jesus uttered this remark is a clear meaning. (Matthew 12:31; Mark 3:29)Jesus was speaking to a group of Pharisees who realized He was righteous but would not acknowledge such. They were denying the diety of Jesus. To deny Jesus is to deny the Spirit. Anyone who rejects Jesus will suffer an eternal consequence.

I believe you must be careful with the context of this Scripture and not use it out of its place. I am not denying the diety of Jesus, the Father, or the Holy Spirit. I affirm the diety and Triune nature of God.

So, are you interested in making an exploration of Scripture and examining whether these things I am suggesting will hold water in God's word?

[alexeeah]

Not really interested in a debate because I can't tell you scriptures and stuff I just know what I have seen, the dead raise, the blind see, the lame walk...........all done by my Pastor because of God's power in Him. ................

[Nazarite]

Not really interested in a debate because I can't tell you scriptures and stuff I just know what I have seen, the dead raise, the blind see, the lame walk...........all done by my Pastor because of God's power in Him. ................
Now this is a remarkable claim. I have yet to speak with a modern day charismatic who would claim he or she has seen the dead raised. I believe you are probably referencing what scripture says miracle workers can actually do. However, I find it remarkable that you claim to have seen the dead raised. If this is so, then it is verifiable and can be shown to be a miracle just like the verifiable miracles of Lazarus, Tabitha, and the son of the widow of Nain.
Does anyone care to investigate what scripture says regarding the purpose of miracles and whether men can work such miracles today? I will leave my debate topic open for a while if someone wishes to discuss this matter, in a kind and brotherly manner.

[alexeeah]

Well yes I was refferring to the scritpture that says such. However one sunday morning when our Pastor was preaching a woman stopped breathing. Her pace maker's battery went dead and she didn't even know it. They evacuated the entire sanctuary and she was dead given a time by the EMT's and everything. Then Pastor prayed for her and her heart started beating again after 20 minutes of being dead. She was raised from the dead and lives to tell of it. They put a new battery in her pace maker and she hasn't ever been the same> Now she tells everyone about that miraculous occurence.

[Nazarite]

While I respect your observations and have heard the antecdotal evidence of others in my day, I contend that Scripture teaches that such miraculous events through the power of man do not continue today. I am not denying God's providence or His work through prayer. However, I am denying that men any longer receive revelations or inspired messages nor are they able to confirm such through the power of miracles.

The so-called healers never bring before the cameras a person like Christopher Reeves. No comatose person hooked up to a ventilator is seen to awake, discard the artificial devices, get up, and walk out of the hospital room. No amputated limb is re-attached. No person whose face is eaten away by cancer is restored on site. The healers display the persons who can be affected by the increased adrenaline flow caused by excitement or who are susceptible to the hypnotic influence of the manipulators. I have waited for a lifetime to see one indisputable case and am still waiting. That mission of the Holy Spirit was completed in the first century.
Am I denying the Presence and the Power of the Spirit today? No. I am denying that He empowers with special gifts. He indwells the disciple. God's promise to hear and answer prayers is still valid. His answers are not as obvious as a miracle performed by one who had a supernatural gift, but are discerned more by faith than by demonstration. Spiritual endowments were never given to all disciples, but the door of prayer is opened to all alike.

[alexeeah]

okay you may have me hooked here............. do you believe that GOd is not a respector of persons? If so then you must believe that what He does for one HE will do for all right? That means what He said to one He says to all other wise what is the meaning of having the word? I mean the commandments were written for the children of Israel so if God doesnt' say to all what He says to one then teh whole word of GOd can be thrown out right? So we have just decided that the word of God is spoken to all men and women alike. Now Jesus said "Lu 10:19Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall in any wise hurt you." So there fore Jesus gave us power over the enemy now look here "Ac 1:8But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." and here " Lu 9:1And he called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases." We recieved that same power as the disciples when we recieved the Holy Spirit. THat is really all I have to say. I don't want to debate I just wanted to prove to myself that it is for real and the working of miracles does exist today..........I don't need to convince you unless you really want convicing because you're curious not because youthink you're right and want to debate it. I will go now.

[Nazarite]

As this is not a debate forum but only a place in which we may invite such a discussion, I will discontinue this "non-debate" and reiterate my formal debate proposition.