"Saints" in Paul's writings

[Crock80]

Does anyone have any information on, when Paul uses the word "saints." Is he referring to those born again in general or is it more deeper than that. Could it mean Jewish Christians? Any info will help thanks.

[Henaynei]

Does anyone have any information on, when Paul uses the word "saints." Is he referring to those born again in general or is it more deeper than that. Could it mean Jewish Christians? Any info will help thanks.1) in Sha'ul's (aka Paul) day there were NO "Jewish Christians" - in fact for most of his ministry there were none known as Christians, period. There were Jews which believe and Gentiles which believe. Belief in Yeshua was simply known as "The Way." The term Christianos was a pejorative term first used in Antioch to disparage the Gentile followers of The Way. It was never used to denote Jews who believed.

2) In every instance the terms translated "saint(s)" means Holy. Holy does not mean "perfect" or "g-d-like," but rather specifically means "set apart, seperated, sanctified" for the use of or in the service of, G-d.

In the T’NaKah (aka OT) there were three Hebrew words used that are translated as “saint(s)” in a total of 36 verses. (Or the Aramaic thereof)

Qodesh – holiness, set-apartness, sacredness

Strong 6944 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1074547098-1922.html)

Qadosh – sacred, holy, set apart

Strong 6918 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1074547171-7630.html)

Chassid – righteous or pious or faithful

Strong 2623 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1074547220-1161.html)

In a total of 62 verses in the Ketuvim Natzrim (aka NT), this is the word used, the only Greek word translated as “saint(s)” is:

Hagios – holy one(s)

Strong 40 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1074547270-7800.html)

I can’t, of course, say what Hebrew or Aramaic word the Greek translators were actually translating from in the original manuscripts.

So, I would say that he, like the writers in the T'NaKh were referring specifically to those individuals who had/have surrendered their hearts and lives in obedience to Him, out of an attitude of gratitude and love.

It is worth noting that the very first time "saint(s)" is used in the Ketuvim Natzrim is in Mattityahu (Matthew) and is specifically and exclusively referring to those Jews who had died in faith and obedience prior to Messiah's sacrifice.

Mattityahu 27:50-53
50 And Yeshua cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

[koilias]

"Saints" my teachers say is translation for "K'doshim" ("set apart ones").

There is a similarity of meaning in the Hebrew word for the Jewish followers of Yeshua, the so called "Nazarenes". This term comes from the bad Greek transliteration for the Hebrew "Notzrim", which means "preserved ones". This word, of course, has a double play in meaning (in the root) with "Natzeret", Yeshua's hometown, and "branch"...The Jewish believers called themselves this because of the rich array of meanings in the root. However, they very clearly pronounced it "Notzrim" as the Talmud concurs.

The "Notzrim" called themselves that because they believed they would be "preserved" during the great tribulation. These are the "144,000" Jews in Revelation. After the BarKochbah rebellion, however, they dispersed and only persisted in very tiny communities. The Rabbis of later periods, however, appropriated the name to refer to all Christians, misunderstanding the fact that the Talmud was speaking of only the Jewish believers of Yeshua. To this day in Israel "Notzrim" is now used to refer to all Christians.

[adriel]

English word Saint in english translations of the bible comes from the Latin meaning 'Sanctified', thus all who are 'born again' are saints, papal decree be ******!

[adriel]

That wasn't a sware word, I take umbridge at being censored!

[mylene]

. The Rabbis of later periods, however, appropriated the name to refer to all Christians, misunderstanding the fact that the Talmud was speaking of only the Jewish believers of Yeshua. To this day in Israel "Notzrim" is now used to refer to all Christians.

Why would the Talmud refer to Jewish believers as Saints?

What would the Talmud call Jewish non believers of Yeshua ?

[Henaynei]

Why would the Talmud refer to Jewish believers as Saints?
They don't call them Saints. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_3_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) Read again, they call them Nazarenes - from the badly transliterated word in Greek that came from the Hebrew word for Notzrim = "preserved" ones. Nazarenes has a double meaning designating the followers of the Nazarene (aka Yeshua).

What would the Talmud call Jewish non believers of Yeshua ?
LOL - they call them............... drum roll http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/1095.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) ..............

JEWS!! ;)

[mylene]

They don't call them Saints. Read again, they call them Nazarenes - from the badly transliterated word in Greek that came from the Hebrew word for Notzrim = "preserved" ones. Nazarenes has a double meaning designating the followers of the Nazarene (aka Yeshua).


LOL - they call them............... drum roll [

JEWS!!

Are you serious? They call them Jews? LOL As though the believers are not

Jews. Their logic is unbelievable. A Jew cannot lose his/her Jewishness

simply because He/she believes in Yeshua.

Ah well, they must be applying their view of the Law I guess.

[Henaynei]

Are you serious? They call them Jews? LOL As though the believers are not

Jews. Their logic is unbelievable. A Jew cannot lose his/her Jewishness

simply because He/she believes in Yeshua.

Ah well, they must be applying their view of the Law I guess.
There are many facets of being "a Jew" and you can, indeed, lose one or more of these by submitting to Yeshua.

One you lose is the legal right to make aliyah as a Jew because by court decree you have converted "to another religion." The courts agree that the religion is not Christianity, but they are not yet ready to agree that it is Judaism...... In time....:sigh:

[Linda8]

It is worth noting that the very first time "saint(s)" is used in the Ketuvim Natzrim is in Mattityahu (Matthew) and is specifically and exclusively referring to those Jews who had died in faith and obedience prior to Messiah's sacrifice.

Mattityahu 27:50-53
50 And Yeshua cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Hello,

How did these saints lose their lives? Many pagan kingdoms tried to suffocate the beliefs of these faithful Jews by terrorising and killing them.

Which of these pagan gentile oppressive kingdoms is listed
here in Daniel 7?

Daniel 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, ..
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it:

[mylene]

There are many facets of being "a Jew" and you can, indeed, lose one or more of these by submitting to Yeshua.

One you lose is the legal right to make aliyah as a Jew because by court decree you have converted "to another religion." The courts agree that the religion is not Christianity, but they are not yet ready to agree that it is Judaism...... In time....:sigh:

Atheist Jews and other non religious Jews would have the same problem making aliyah because they belong to " another religion" that is not of Judaism and G-d.
So do they imply all Jews in Israel are fully religious and all obey Torah?

Only Jews who are religious and are rabbis could then make aliyah
because Israeli atheists who have jewish ethnicity cannot be termed Jews
since their atheist faith essentially consists of another non-G-dly
religion.

Israelis who are atheists and those not as religiously observant as Judaism Rabbis should not be able to make aliyah because atheism is NOT allowed in Torah. One nation under G-d is what Torah says and this disqualifies jewish atheists from aliyah.

Of course, some Jew authorities could try to subvert the law...LOL

[Amandine]

English word Saint in english translations of the bible comes from the Latin meaning 'Sanctified', thus all who are 'born again' are saints, papal decree be ******!
??? What do you mean by the asterik words?
If too OT, then PM me
-Catherine

[Henaynei]

Hello,

How did these saints lose their lives? Many pagan kingdoms tried to suffocate the beliefs of these faithful Jews by terrorising and killing them.

True, some saints were martyred, but martyrdom does not make you a saint :)

These saints were those Jews who obeyed Torah with faith/trust.

[Henaynei]

Atheist Jews and other non religious Jews would have the same problem making aliyah because they belong to " another religion" that is not of Judaism and G-d.
So do they imply all Jews in Israel are fully religious and all obey Torah?

Only Jews who are religious and are rabbis could then make aliyah
because Israeli atheists who have jewish ethnicity cannot be termed Jews
since their atheist faith essentially consists of another non-G-dly
religion.

Israelis who are atheists and those not as religiously observant as Judaism Rabbis should not be able to make aliyah because atheism is NOT allowed in Torah. One nation under G-d is what Torah says and this disqualifies jewish atheists from aliyah.

Of course, some Jew authorities could try to subvert the law...LOL
According to Israeli Law any person who's one grandparent was Jewish can make Aliyah - this is the same standard Hitler used for his slaughtering.

It is only the Yeshua-believing Jews that are excluded, contrary to what "should" happen. The VAST majority of Jews are secular atheists or agnostics - the religious are a tiny minority.

Jews from Russia/Europe are almost all atheistic socialists - ajnd they all make aliyah without a hitch. Their political and social persence is palpable in Israeli society and law.

[adriel]

Anyone would think the Israeli authorities are scared of messianics or something! Besides should a believer in Yeshua become president in Israel then technically de facto the L-rd would back on the throne of Israel. Then we would see sparks fly!

shalom



According to Israeli Law any person who's one grandparent was Jewish can make Aliyah - this is the same standard Hitler used for his slaughtering.

It is only the Yeshua-believing Jews that are excluded, contrary to what "should" happen. The VAST majority of Jews are secular atheists or agnostics - the religious are a tiny minority.

Jews from Russia/Europe are almost all atheistic socialists - ajnd they all make aliyah without a hitch. Their political and social persence is palpable in Israeli society and law.

[Henaynei]

Anyone would think the Israeli authorities are scared of messianics or something! Besides should a believer in Yeshua become president in Israel then technically de facto the L-rd would back on the throne of Israel. Then we would see sparks fly!

shalom
In all honesty, the Israeli authorities are just taking their responsibility seriously, mis-informed yes, but very seriously.

Assimilation is the greatest danger to Judaism, bar none. Keeping those who have already assimilated, like cutting out a tumor, is their effort to prevent the spread of disease. In their eyes believers in Yeshua are the most toxic (thousands of years of pograms, the Holocaust and the like) and the most virulent of the various assimilation diseases.

Personally I see socialism as that where it comes to Israel as it is socalism that is the core value of her political system and atheism is the core value of socialism. This can be seen in many areas of Israeli life including the fact that the vast majority of Jews are so far removed from the faith of their fathers and Torah that the Temple mount is really no more than another piece of realestate and is easily forefit to the Palestinians for "peace." It nearly literally happened 3 years ago and is what sparked the current Intifada. The Arabs rose up in anger (cause it was not everything they wanted) and the Israelis were/are mute.

[sojeru]

Im glad that the word saints is derived from the Hebrew Kadoshim or the related.
reason being it is because a person is set apart by the MTZVOT not just because he has been pardoned is a person set apart- but a person is to now work because they have been pardoned.

Scripture only points pro-Order, pro-Torah, pro-Observance.

and about the courts?
well, only few have made aliyah because they have indeed proven themselves to be genuinly JEWISH.
and i don mean by just claim- they have proven it, in their life and speech and theology.

[theseed]

Saint comes from sanctify, or to make holy, to set apart. In some Christian circles, Saint with a capital S are people who have met certain requirments and have been bona fide.

[mylene]

and about the courts?
well, only few have made aliyah because they have indeed proven themselves to be genuinly JEWISH.
and i don mean by just claim- they have proven it, in their life and speech and theology.
Does being an atheist make you non-Jewish, even if you have Jewish parents?
It seems many non-practising non-religious ones make aliyah but do not show it in theology and life as you remarked. How is the person's Jewishness properly evaluated?

Shalom.