Struggling, but still of use?

[Im_A]

I don't know if I put this in the right place, but I'll see, and if it gets deleted or moved, that will be enough to answer that question.

I was at work last night, and I work at a plastic factory, so most of the time, I have plenty time of think while I work. Something was eating at me big time, and I just want to get out.

Has anyone felt that because they struggle with things, that are not of any good use for the kingdom? I know at once I posted a lot of things aimed towards reaching out to non-christians on here, but I want this to be different. I do hope this will become a little aloe for open and infecting wounds.

Has anyone heard the saying, "You can't be involved with ministry because your struggling?" Or things to the extent that because your dealing with this and that, you can't successfully reach people with the Gospel. I have heard it from time to time. It never sat right, but nevertheless, I made the mistake of just believeing it, and just watching things ironically get worse in my walk with Christ.

Here recently, I made a decent sized mistake, and then those old feelings came back. So I sent the email to the pastor of the ministry I attend to, and this time I was proven wrong. There wasn't a judgement made. He went at what I have been trying to get across, that we all struggle in our lives no matter if we are Christian or not, and that doesn't mean that we can't be used for God's work just because we're not perfect, because then no one would be able to do it then. Nevertheless, at the time I read I cried for a little bit, just because finally I was proven wrong.

So last night at work I got thinking about everything, because I spent a few days with the pastor, and we hung out all the days. Sunday he got baptized, and baptized 2 other people, and then just through talks, and times that we played games and then to the Bible Tuesday night, stuff has really been hitting my mind. So I got thinking last night while at work, about Christians that aren't afraid to show their struggles, whether they are public struggles or not, thinking that because I am one, and used to still hearing all the normal barrage of lines that you can't do this or that, and then to the pastor, my mom, and some other people that have really supported me. So I got thinking, why couldn't the struggling be used? I mean to me at times it seems that maybe struggling and not-struggling is just an outside classification that one makes of someone else, or themselves.

So I got thinking about major characters in the Bible. Take Paul for example. Formerly known as Saul. A murderer of Christians. (Maybe that was the thorn on his side, the guilt of his former life?) I mean Saul murderd Christians, and when he converted he was on his way to kill more Christians. Through his conversion, God changed his name to Paul, and became one of the big writers of the New Testament. I wonder at the time, how did Paul's former life follow him. If he was hindered at some point because of what he used to do by Christians. I wonder how non-Christians looked at him because of what he used to do. I mean it isn't really mentioned, and I cannot see how that would be severely important to one's faith, the only importance I could see is maybe understanding things about Paul a little bit better.

Then you take King David, one of the greatest if not the greatest kings of Israel. A man after God's own heart, committed a great sin, an extreme version of adultery. As I am sure we all know the story. He put the woman's husband in the harshest place of battle, he got killed, and David wanted his wife. I mean, that's a pretty big mistake there, and we know that David suffered consequences for his actions, but God still used him for his purpose. King David still continued on in his "ministry" for God as King of Israel.

I am sure there are other examples, but for right now, I am going to leave it here. We see great people in the Bible having a "humanity" even though they do struggle. Now of course we would like to think that they stopped their major mistake after that point, and I believe we can believe that, but take Paul's example. Paul himself again told us that he had a thorn in his side. That, I believe clearly shows an on going struggle. Guilt for his former life? A struggle else where? Who knows? That is between Paul and God, and we are only left to guesses at that, but that is not the point. Paul had a continual struggle. We see great people in Bible making minut mistakes, but big ones. Which leads me to one conclusion.

Is the way of trying to hold each other at perfection is what was really meant? Now I am not meaning to condone sinful habits, there is no condoning in things like that, but nevertheless, we as humans always struggle. Struggle in either big or small ways, for it does not matter, and if we had to be perfect to be in ministry or to be in the work of God to reach the lost, then we just lost our last missionary two thousand years ago. I truly believe we all have a place where we can reach the best at. The struggles we show to people we are reaching just shows one thing in my eyes, the constancy of God. The fact that God still loves us, and the fact that no matter how much either the devil or we bring on ourselves, faith in God must and still stands firm, and it is still fruitable to be used for His work, no matter what time of our life has come.

Now maybe I am preaching to the choir here, and in no means am meaning to that. If people don't think this fits in here let me know, and i'll move it to another forum in here. If not, I hope that people of similar mindsets come in and give their two cents. God Bless you all! <><

[seebs]

ABSOLUTELY!

The only thing that a "no struggling people" policy does is guarantee that your ministry will be full of people who are liars, too.

[Caprice]

The only thing that a "no struggling people" policy does is guarantee that your ministry will be full of people who are liars, too.
Aint that the truth!

[MsAnne]

You made several points in your post. (Actually, I don't usually read posts this long.) But one thought kept coming back to me.

I heard a speaker once - she was a Christian counselor - and she made a statement that has stayed with me ever since. Basically:
You are RIGHT NOW at this very moment, EXACTLY who God WANTS YOU TO BE to do the tasks He has for you AT THIS MOMENT. Now, that doesn't mean He doesn't want you to continue to grow. That doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. It simply means that you are fit, right now, to do exactly what it is He would have you to do today. You don't have to 'get your act together' before you can be of any use.

He may use you differently in the future. As you grow, your tasks may grow, but using the excuse that you aren't ready, just doesn't fly.

[Reader Nilus]

There is an excellent book called The Wounded Healer by Henri J.M. Nouwen, which is a must read IMHO. I can not think that folks who think they have their act together can be of much help to those who don't. The Church has always been a hospital for sinners, and that is why it is not filled with constant rose colored light.
Jeff the Finn

[Treasure the Questions]

Thank you for that honest post, tattedsaint. I hope it doesn't get deleted 'cause that really seemed to come from the heart.

I've been in churches where my limitations were emphasised at the expense of my capabilities, where only people who fit certain criteria were allowed even to look after the toddlers on Sunday - and I don't mean something obvious like issues that would affect the safety of the kids. I've listened to teaching that made me feel a right failure and wonder if God could really ever use me, and just when I thought I was in a place where God could maybe use me I had really bad problems with my neck and had to give up the job I'd just got. I couldn't do a lot for some months.

God taught me a lot through this time. I think he made me far more useful to him as a result of the phyisical and emotional struggles I underwent. for one thing I'm sure I'm more compassionate. It is only when we have really struggled ourselves that we can understand what other people might be going through. I guess we also need to struggle in understanding, too, otherwise me might just have some glib formula to trot out for others, that probably won't help them at all.

I think the message of the gospel is that God takes broken people and makes them whole, and useful, he takes what the world has rejected and makes it something of great value. The trouble is that worldly values so often creep into our churches and they judge people by worldy standards and forget God's power to change people.

I'm glad to say that I'm in a church now where people are happy for me to use my gifts and the fact that my husband isn't a Christian doesn't bother them at all. They see me for who I am, not who my husband is. They don't even seem to mind that I ask awkward questions occasionally.

Karin

[Duggie]

[Treasure the Questions]

I think the message of the gospel is that God takes broken people and makes them whole, and useful, he takes what the world has rejected and makes it something of great value. The trouble is that worldly values so often creep into our churches and they judge people by worldy standards and forget God's power to change people.

Karin
Excellent point Karin,

As someone who has struggled with a serious physical illness for the past 5 yrs I can testify first hand that God can use you, regardless of where you are in life or what struggles your facing. I'm P/C charasmitic so I believe in the gift of healing, yet I have not been healed of my condition. Infact I believe God is healing me through the use of medicine and the surgeons who operate on me. I have struggled with why I got this illness? What did I do? Was my lack of faith responsible? etc... I've stopped asking myself these questions because I now realise, after much soul searching, that God isn't looking at my physical condition, He's looking at my heart. I have learnt so much having gone through this, empathy for others who are struggling with illness, patience, not taking things for granted, humility the list goes on. God sees your struggles and hears your cries and loves you regardless. It's people who place the emphasis on being this perfect creation in Christ, it's people who tell me that God wants me healed and I need to have faith and just recieve that healing. I've experience discouragement, I have heard the testimonies about people being healed of cancer, tumours, deafness etc... and wondered why God hasn't done that for me. It's how we respond, in faith, to our struggles that God is looking at. My trust is in the Lord and my dependence upon Him is stronger now than it's ever been in my short 6 yrs as a Christian. Struggles are part of life, but count yourself blessed that you have a heavenly Father who is concerned with your struggles and will provide a pathway through them.

Godbless you tattedsaint :)

[Anthony]

God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit take all of us "warts and all"

[Jason of Wyoming]

I don't know if I put this in the right place, but I'll see, and if it gets deleted or moved, that will be enough to answer that question.

I was at work last night, and I work at a plastic factory, so most of the time, I have plenty time of think while I work. Something was eating at me big time, and I just want to get out.

Has anyone felt that because they struggle with things, that are not of any good use for the kingdom? I know at once I posted a lot of things aimed towards reaching out to non-christians on here, but I want this to be different. I do hope this will become a little aloe for open and infecting wounds.

Has anyone heard the saying, "You can't be involved with ministry because your struggling?" Or things to the extent that because your dealing with this and that, you can't successfully reach people with the Gospel. I have heard it from time to time. It never sat right, but nevertheless, I made the mistake of just believeing it, and just watching things ironically get worse in my walk with Christ.

Here recently, I made a decent sized mistake, and then those old feelings came back. So I sent the email to the pastor of the ministry I attend to, and this time I was proven wrong. There wasn't a judgement made. He went at what I have been trying to get across, that we all struggle in our lives no matter if we are Christian or not, and that doesn't mean that we can't be used for God's work just because we're not perfect, because then no one would be able to do it then. Nevertheless, at the time I read I cried for a little bit, just because finally I was proven wrong.

So last night at work I got thinking about everything, because I spent a few days with the pastor, and we hung out all the days. Sunday he got baptized, and baptized 2 other people, and then just through talks, and times that we played games and then to the Bible Tuesday night, stuff has really been hitting my mind. So I got thinking last night while at work, about Christians that aren't afraid to show their struggles, whether they are public struggles or not, thinking that because I am one, and used to still hearing all the normal barrage of lines that you can't do this or that, and then to the pastor, my mom, and some other people that have really supported me. So I got thinking, why couldn't the struggling be used? I mean to me at times it seems that maybe struggling and not-struggling is just an outside classification that one makes of someone else, or themselves.

So I got thinking about major characters in the Bible. Take Paul for example. Formerly known as Saul. A murderer of Christians. (Maybe that was the thorn on his side, the guilt of his former life?) I mean Saul murderd Christians, and when he converted he was on his way to kill more Christians. Through his conversion, God changed his name to Paul, and became one of the big writers of the New Testament. I wonder at the time, how did Paul's former life follow him. If he was hindered at some point because of what he used to do by Christians. I wonder how non-Christians looked at him because of what he used to do. I mean it isn't really mentioned, and I cannot see how that would be severely important to one's faith, the only importance I could see is maybe understanding things about Paul a little bit better.

Then you take King David, one of the greatest if not the greatest kings of Israel. A man after God's own heart, committed a great sin, an extreme version of adultery. As I am sure we all know the story. He put the woman's husband in the harshest place of battle, he got killed, and David wanted his wife. I mean, that's a pretty big mistake there, and we know that David suffered consequences for his actions, but God still used him for his purpose. King David still continued on in his "ministry" for God as King of Israel.

I am sure there are other examples, but for right now, I am going to leave it here. We see great people in the Bible having a "humanity" even though they do struggle. Now of course we would like to think that they stopped their major mistake after that point, and I believe we can believe that, but take Paul's example. Paul himself again told us that he had a thorn in his side. That, I believe clearly shows an on going struggle. Guilt for his former life? A struggle else where? Who knows? That is between Paul and God, and we are only left to guesses at that, but that is not the point. Paul had a continual struggle. We see great people in Bible making minut mistakes, but big ones. Which leads me to one conclusion.

Is the way of trying to hold each other at perfection is what was really meant? Now I am not meaning to condone sinful habits, there is no condoning in things like that, but nevertheless, we as humans always struggle. Struggle in either big or small ways, for it does not matter, and if we had to be perfect to be in ministry or to be in the work of God to reach the lost, then we just lost our last missionary two thousand years ago. I truly believe we all have a place where we can reach the best at. The struggles we show to people we are reaching just shows one thing in my eyes, the constancy of God. The fact that God still loves us, and the fact that no matter how much either the devil or we bring on ourselves, faith in God must and still stands firm, and it is still fruitable to be used for His work, no matter what time of our life has come.

Now maybe I am preaching to the choir here, and in no means am meaning to that. If people don't think this fits in here let me know, and i'll move it to another forum in here. If not, I hope that people of similar mindsets come in and give their two cents. God Bless you all! <><
TS,

Well said. We all struggle with personal problems. Sometimes i've used my personal problems (sins) as justification for not doing what God wanted me to do. I now realize that I must fulfill His will, whether or not I feel personall worthy to do so.

God bless.

[Treasure the Questions]

Not all personal problems are sins. Then again what is sin? We should not make excuses for not doing what we should do, nor for doing what we should not do (although we all do one way or another), but we all have genuine struggles with sin and temptation.

We need to find the balance between forgiving ourselves, knowing God forgives us, and working out a real change of attitude and activity away from what is not beneficial to ourselves and others towards what God requires of us.

Karin

[Im_A]

Not all personal problems are sins. Then again what is sin? We should not make excuses for not doing what we should do, nor for doing what we should not do (although we all do one way or another), but we all have genuine struggles with sin and temptation.

We need to find the balance between forgiving ourselves, knowing God forgives us, and working out a real change of attitude and activity away from what is not beneficial to ourselves and others towards what God requires of us.

Karin
i think forgiving ourselves is a key note to being useful for God. i mean without it, we are just a rock sinking in the ocean. we know God forgives us, and the hardest battle is forgiving ourselves once we truly repent from whatever sin is out there. not forgiving ourselves is something i believe hurts our walk with God too. i have noticed such a huge change in my walk with God after i was honest to myself with what i did wrong, and then not being ashamed, but honest about it when the times come to share it, and then in the end to forgive myself and get past it. i think a meek spirit and a humble and an honest heart is crucial for the need for God and thus in the end, making us useful.

[Treasure the Questions]

I think that's very true, Tattedsaint. Forgiving ourselves can be very hard.

I think I've been helped by a better understanding of God's grace, and also that God loves and accepts me warts and all, even if he would like to encourage me to do better. Arrogance often stems from a desire to prove that we're OK, although it can be because we have been taught to have an over-inflated opinion of ourselves, but knowing God loves us as we are can help us to no longer feel that desire and so help us become more humble. Either way, undestanding the way God sees us can help us to think of ourselves neither too well nor too badly.

Karin

[Jason of Wyoming]

This is a nice thread.