IDD will be reopened - the posts will be back - but with more moderators and rules

[Erwin]

I think we can all agree that we miss the forum Interdenominational Dialogue (IDD), if not the contents or some of the posters. ;) The current Formal Debates format is not working - there has been no posts in there since we removed IDD. Also, some of the more heated topics seem to be spilling into the more peaceful Congregation forums.

I have always believed that Christians from different denominations can come together in fellowship and love, despite their differences, because of the fact that we are one body in Christ Jesus. We can agree to disagree, and be able to respectfully discuss our doctrinal differences, just as a brother can disagree with his sibling and yet be able to look at the sibling with love and compassion. That was the vision for IDD. Unfortunately, it was not to be.

The staff are now discussing the logistics of reopening IDD. First of all, we will have MORE MODERATORS. At least 20 if possible. Secondly, there will be MORE RULES. I think we can all agree that no matter how many rules we add, it will still not be as restrictive as formal debates.

While we discuss this, I just wanted to keep members up to date regarding our plans. Please be patient - we are listening to all of you, but most of all, we seek to listen to God.

Take care. :)

[seebs]

Patience is a good thing. Better to do God's will tomorrow than to flail around a bit today.

[Icystwolf]

Don't you just hate it when you plan and write and do heaps of stuff for that one piece of thing and in the end it just doesn't work....

It's like code, take 60hrs and finally you realise it doesn't work....whoops forgot to pass the object....

Or when you bake a cake for the first time....why didn't it rise?...whoops forgot the baking powder...

Erwin, it's great that you've considered to put it back with it new and improved.... I'd much rather keep baking the cake than have no cake at all....LOL....

[nyj]

Personally, I don't think we've given the IDD closure enough time to see if it will work. A couple of days is not enough. I would be willing to bet that given a couple of weeks, things would be just hunky-dory without IDD.

Of course, I could be wrong, but at least I'm willing to put my money ( or a pizza rather ;) ) where my mouth is.

[Icystwolf]

Personally, I don't think we've given the IDD closure enough time to see if it will work. A couple of days is not enough. I would be willing to bet that given a couple of weeks, things would be just hunky-dory without IDD.

Of course, I could be wrong, but at least I'm willing to put my money ( or a pizza rather ;) ) where my mouth is.
Yeh I think I'd agree, that way I can finish off my novel rather spend time dwelling in IDD...;)

[Hopeful]

I have always believed that Christians from different denominations can come together in fellowship and love, despite their differences, because of the fact that we are one body in Christ Jesus. We can agree to disagree, and be able to respectfully discuss our doctrinal differences.


One would think this too, but it is more of popularity contest and who is the most right. shoulding serving God in different ways be a debatable topic?

[Debi1967]

personally I am for the decision to reopen with new rules that will be more stringent.
If rules can be set up that are not Formal Debate rules but at the same time curb how far one can go in the pursuit then I do not see that we should not try it. As of right now the problem stands that these types of debates have spilled over into Forum that are OPEN forums which means that unbelievers are seeing much more of things that they should not be seeing instead of the isolated incident. GA is a very good example of this type of behaviour. It is like a field day in there.
I do understand the reasoning behind closing done IDD in the first place but if we really want to think of God first then we also need to think of what this is doing to the unbeliever to see this going on. And since we cannot control everybody there needs to be a place set aside for the issues to be presented in a more private manner. Most people will not go where they cannot post. So although we may get a few lurkers in the CO areas it is not anywhere near as bad as putting it out there full throttle for them to see.
And although some believe that it is inappropriate to do this behaviour in such a manner some just do not care who sees it quite frankly. I mean if we were perfect examples of Christ then there would be no need for this to take place at all because IDD wouldn't have been shut down in the first place.
Then we can talk about how it has even infiltrated the forums set aside for calm fellowship.
IMHO of course
In Christ
Debi

[seebs]

Hey, wasn't one of the original arguments the hope that more people would go from IDD into GA? I guess that part worked. :P

[Debi1967]

Hey, wasn't one of the original arguments the hope that more people would go from IDD into GA? I guess that part worked. :P
Well I guess it did and then backfired because then they sortof forgot the purpose of GA to begin with and made it an in fighting free for all. :P

[jbarcher]

Lol...

[ZiSunka]

I think that no matter what is done to moderate the IDD forum, there will always be fights because the theology and doctrine of the catholic-based denominations is so different from the non-catholic-based denoms that the two can NEVER be reconciled. It's like expecting people who only eat liver to sit down to a nice meal with vegans. The two cannot be reconciled, and as the vegans and the liver-eaters get hungrier and hungrier for something that nourishes either of them, they will fight, no matter what they have in common and no matter how committed they are to keeping the peace.

Likewise, IDD nourishes neither group, it only acts as a torture device to remind them both how hungry they are for the spiritual nourishment of a good discussion and fellowship with like-minded Believers, and no matter what there is in common between the two groups, since neither is being satisfied spiritually, the hunger and anger will flare up again and again.

As CF tries harder and harder to accomodate everyone, it nourishes no one, like a restaurant that tries to serve all eaters without offending any other groups sensibilities. You can't have a vegan/Atkins/South Beach/kosher/Chinese/low fat restaurant. CF is trying to have a Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox/pagan/seeker/atheist/non-demoninational/agnostic website, and THAT'S what is causing all the problems, not the posters. We're all just trying to be true to our faiths, which are mutally incompatible, like the vegan and the carnivore.

[Icystwolf]

As CF tries harder and harder to accomodate everyone, it nourishes no one, like a restaurant that tries to serve all eaters without offending any other groups sensibilities. You can't have a vegan/Atkins/South Beach/kosher/Chinese/low fat restaurant. CF is trying to have a Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox/pagan/seeker/atheist/non-demoninational/agnostic website, and THAT'S what is causing all the problems, not the posters. We're all just trying to be true to our faiths, which are mutally incompatible, like the vegan and the carnivore.
Lambslove, I haven't heard from you for while, I think I've been going to the wrong forums, but you've always had the correct wisdom. :clap:

[Rising Tree]

So Erwin, are you recruiting mods?

[Miss Shelby]

As CF tries harder and harder to accomodate everyone, it nourishes no one, like a restaurant that tries to serve all eaters without offending any other groups sensibilities. You can't have a vegan/Atkins/South Beach/kosher/Chinese/low fat restaurant. CF is trying to have a Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox/pagan/seeker/atheist/non-demoninational/agnostic website, and THAT'S what is causing all the problems, not the posters. We're all just trying to be true to our faiths, which are mutally incompatible, like the vegan and the carnivore.I disagree with you.

I think if posters have a problem with interfaith issues, they should avoid those discussions. Likewise, if certain posters feel they come up spiritually dry by having interaction nonChristians and atheists, avoid those discussions as well.

But to say that no one is being nourished spiritually is presumptuous at best. In the Catholic forum, we have numerous prayer and praise threads, and there are numerous prayer and praise threads in other fora on this board as well.

It's what the individual makes of it, imo.

Michelle

[AngelAmidala]

So Erwin, are you recruiting mods?
Yes he is. :)

Before IDD is re-opened, we will have a set of very specific forum rules for IDD as well as the 20 (or more) moderators established.

The moderators will come from our current staff as well as new moderators.

If you are interested in helping out with IDD, feel free to apply. If you've already applied and you would be interested in helping out in IDD, drop a line to oncewaslost, our HR Admin, and let her know so she can include it in your application.

[onesheep]

I disagree with you.

I think if posters have a problem with interfaith issues, they should avoid those discussions. Likewise, if certain posters feel they come up spiritually dry by having interaction nonChristians and atheists, avoid those discussions as well.

But to say that no one is being nourished spiritually is presumptuous at best. In the Catholic forum, we have numerous prayer and praise threads, and there are numerous prayer and praise threads in other fora on this board as well.

It's what the individual makes of it, imo.

Michelle
Excellent post, Michelle. :)

I think closing IDD was a bad idea. I don't know if more moderators will help but the board is too big to have the few moderators in there that it had.

[Miss Shelby]

Excellent post, Michelle. :)Thanks.

I think closing IDD was a bad idea. I don't know if more moderators will help but the board is too big to have the few moderators in there that it had.I'm pretty indifferent on the matter. I sure don't miss it. Maybe that is due to having run my course in there, though. :)

Michelle

[Henaynei]

Well I guess it did and then backfired because then they sortof forgot the purpose of GA to begin with and made it an in fighting free for all. :P
perhaps this is the trouble.....

whether GA or IDD, chronic fighters, baiters and trolls should be excluded - the extra mods should be able to handle that quite well.....
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_5_11.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) are your best friends, when you obey the rules :)

[Dawn Marie]

We're all just trying to be true to our faiths, which are mutally incompatible, like the vegan and the carnivore. I think you're wrong. It's nothing like that. At least, it shouldn't be...

We're not that different. You're making it sound like Catholics and Protestants have nothing in common - they do. Christianity.

If you can't handle talking to people who don't believe exactly as you do, then ...:scratch:

[Henaynei]

We're all just trying to be true to our faiths, which are mutally incompatible, like the vegan and the carnivore.

I think a more apt comparison might be Cantonese and Sezchuan - same food, just slightly different spices!!

Or Japanese http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_4_18.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) and Chinese http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_12_9.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) - many similarities, some very interesting differences - often served on the same table in America!!

[Ken]

I am looking forward to the reopening, especially since any serious question posted in the GA section is immediately ridiculed by atheists, see, for instance,
http://www.christianforums.com/t86444

[Miss Shelby]

I am looking forward to the reopening, especially since any serious question posted in the GA section is immediately ridiculed by atheists, see, for instance,
http://www.christianforums.com/t86444Was that question intended to be serious?

Michelle

[nyj]

I am looking forward to the reopening, especially since any serious question posted in the GA section is immediately ridiculed by atheists, see, for instance,
http://www.christianforums.com/t86444
I don't see why that would have gone into IDD anyways.

[catholicfemalenokc]

looking forward to ur quotes

[theseed]

Why is it that people want to debate in IDD, but not in Formal Debates. I don't if I care about IDD anymore. Accept maybe for fellowship. It is like PRE in that it will be hetergenous. There are alot of debates in PRE too.

[nyj]

Since the shock of IDD's closure has subsided, it appears, at least to me, that the tension levels at CF have reduced significantly. Things are, at least from my perspective, peaceful in the Congregation Fora. Why we would want to re-open IDD, and potentially allow the tension to build once again is beyond me. Heavily moderated or not heavily moderated, the fact that tensions have subsided without the presence of IDD (and I'd be willing tobet the number of reports have decreased as well) is a good enough indicator that IDD simply isn't needed here at Christian Forums.

[James Sez]

As a lurker, I loved IDD. I didn't always like the tension but I learned a lot. I look forward to it's return.

[seebs]

Since the shock of IDD's closure has subsided, it appears, at least to me, that the tension levels at CF have reduced significantly. Things are, at least from my perspective, peaceful in the Congregation Fora. Why we would want to re-open IDD, and potentially allow the tension to build once again is beyond me. Heavily moderated or not heavily moderated, the fact that tensions have subsided without the presence of IDD (and I'd be willing tobet the number of reports have decreased as well) is a good enough indicator that IDD simply isn't needed here at Christian Forums.

Well, I'm gonna have to think about this a bit, because I rarely disagree with you on these matters, but I'm just not quite convinced by that.

It seems clear to me that, if we banned discussion of religion entirely, we would see a LOT fewer heated debates; religion is an issue about which people feel strongly. That doesn't mean that the calmer tone and lack of reports would indicate a better environment for accomplishing CF's mission.

I think there is some good to be had from debate, and from learning about what other people believe. I think that some of the valuable functions of IDD are spilling over into other fora, and turning into fights there... I think it's clear that IDD as it was wasn't working for us, but I don't think that means there's no benefit to be had from something addressing those needs.

[MattMMMan17]

I'm thinking. . .a lot more discussion has transpired in the true spirit of Christian fellowship now that IDD is gone. I first wanted it reopened to share, but now that the congregation forums have stopped being so heated, it's nice. I think we should leave it as is for a while, because it gives people more times to wander around the congregation forums asking questions and getting complete answers. This helps clear up untruths and misconceptions. Then, after a while, I think everyone will have enough knowledge to be able to carry Interdominational Dialogue in civilized manner.

[ej]

I think that no matter what is done to moderate the IDD forum, there will always be fights because the theology and doctrine of the catholic-based denominations is so different from the non-catholic-based denoms that the two can NEVER be reconciled. It's like expecting people who only eat liver to sit down to a nice meal with vegans. The two cannot be reconciled, and as the vegans and the liver-eaters get hungrier and hungrier for something that nourishes either of them, they will fight, no matter what they have in common and no matter how committed they are to keeping the peace.

Likewise, IDD nourishes neither group, it only acts as a torture device to remind them both how hungry they are for the spiritual nourishment of a good discussion and fellowship with like-minded Believers, and no matter what there is in common between the two groups, since neither is being satisfied spiritually, the hunger and anger will flare up again and again.

As CF tries harder and harder to accomodate everyone, it nourishes no one, like a restaurant that tries to serve all eaters without offending any other groups sensibilities. You can't have a vegan/Atkins/South Beach/kosher/Chinese/low fat restaurant. CF is trying to have a Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox/pagan/seeker/atheist/non-demoninational/agnostic website, and THAT'S what is causing all the problems, not the posters. We're all just trying to be true to our faiths, which are mutally incompatible, like the vegan and the carnivore.
Maybe you should try to remember why we have Christian Forums :pray:

Then I'm sure you'd say the opposite... or something more along the lines of Miss Shelb's and Dawn Marie's thoughts.

[ZiSunka]

I think you're wrong. It's nothing like that. At least, it shouldn't be...

We're not that different. You're making it sound like Catholics and Protestants have nothing in common - they do. Christianity.

If you can't handle talking to people who don't believe exactly as you do, then ...:scratch:
Dawn Marie,

It's more a case of being sick of being attacked for holding "salvation by faith" to be a truth, and not a heresy. No one has to believe exactly what I do, but Christians should at least be respectful of others, and that doesn't happen in IDD or a lot of the other forums. When I stopped posting in the forums where I got attacked, I realized the only ones left were the the non-religious threads.

And one would think from reading CF that catholics and non-catholics DON'T have anything in common. It was the fighting that drove me away, and really, I'm getting much more done in my ministries and in my REAL relationships since I left.

I only came back to post a prayer request about my dad dying, but I'm sure even that will somehow deteriorate into a fight...:sigh:

[ZiSunka]

Maybe you should try to remember why we have Christian Forums :pray:

Then I'm sure you'd say the opposite... or something more along the lines of Miss Shelb's and Dawn Marie's thoughts.
I think we have CF so Christians can talk to each other, not so they can emotionally rape each other. But that doesn't happen around here. That's why they had to close IDD, remember? And that happened long AFTER I stopped posting at CF, so don't blame me alone... The catholics would do as well to remember it as the non-catholics.

[ej]

I think we have CF so Christians can talk to each other, not so they can emotionally rape each other. But that doesn't happen around here. That's why they had to close IDD, remember? And that happened long AFTER I stopped posting at CF, so don't blame me alone... The catholics would do as well to remember it as the non-catholics.

I totally agree, Lambslove :)

Christian Forums is a free, non-profit and non-denominational Christian forum community uniting all Christians as one body.
That's why I started posting here in the first place - it's a place where we remember what we have in common.

[d0c markus]

ERWIN got an update for us?

[AngelAmidala]

It is still being worked out how/if/etc. IDD will return.

You'll have to deal with my answer for now...Erwin is off training so he's not around to answer at the moment. :)

[d0c markus]

Thanks, something is better than nothin. Can you inform us of the hardest things you have run into?

[AngelAmidala]

Well, originally the two things we were working on were the rules...trying to make them stricter so as not to allow the types of debates that were going on in there before, but to still allow the freedom for some discussion between the different sides.

Another was getting the number of mods in there that we want. Erwin wanted at least 20 active moderators in there. While we might have the number of moderators on staff to accomplish that, not everyone would be interested in moderating there, and we might lose coverage in our other areas. You can only stretch a moderator out so far.

The most recent discussion we've been following is the request by some to leave IDD closed. (nyj started a thread on this in the Suggestions forum.)

I'm not sure what's going on in Erwin's mind about all this. I suspect in his "downtime" while he's away from the computer that he's praying about this as well.

I hope this answers your question (and anyone else's for that matter). :)

[d0c markus]

YEP..thanks!

[pmarquette]

Then enemy is attacking us piece meal , and we respond in kind .... can no longer afford to do so .... " a house divided , cannot stand ".

When the media [ satan ] attacks Catholics , we all should respond [ part of the family , part of the church ....

knowing , that we ( methodist , baptist , wof , ag , episcopal , christian , lutheran ) are next ..... " we should hang together , or surely we will hang separately "

1 Corinthians 12 ... many parts , one body , same church , same head ( Jesus ) , same source ( God ) , same destination ( heaven ) , analagous ministries .... different priorities .

When one part is attacked , all suffer ;
When one part is afflicted , all are deminished ;
When one part is villified , all should react .....

[good4u]

As much as I enjoy a lively convo, MORE rules will KILL it instantly. Something to think about...please remember living in the Spirit vs. Legalism....it is difficult enough on this site.

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, CF staff

Has there been any movement on this issue?

Peace to u,

BBAS

[ShirChadash]

I have a suggestion which may or may not work, or be acceptable. But just in case, I'm going to throw it out here. I once drafted a plan for a debate forum on another site, and I would like to suggest (if it hasn't been already) that there could be a minimum number of posts and reputation in order to access the IDD here, and then one could request access from the moderators of the board after they have reached the minimium number of posts and reputation.


:)

[Alternate Carpark]

Having the ideal that the IDD would be a celebration of unity was a big ask don't you think ?

It is assuming that each denom worships the one true God, so of course we will get along fine because we are all filled with grace and love toward each other.

So it didn't turn out the way it was expected and these gracious loving Christians started arguing and abusing each other.
So IDD was unplugged because of what?
Embarrassment, reality didn't match the ideal ?

I reckon the IDD is a wonderful idea, because it shows the sad state of the Christianity community at the moment. And if we are confronted with it then
we are forced to acknowledge it and do something about it.

And if we think like "Oh we must show the world our unity and love and grace and IDD was not showing that so let's remove it so no one will see us like this"

Sadly, regardless of whether IDD is opened or closed, the world already knows about our hypocracy and internal fighting and hatred toward each other.

God never hides a problem and He doesn't want us to hide ours either.
The world looks at Christianity and just shakes it's head in disbelief.
I talk to so many non believers and this is what they think of Christians.
"Ignorant self righteous judgmental hypercrites" who then state that they wouldn't try Christianity if someone paid them a million $.

And the majority of Christians couldn't care less about that because they are too busy defending their version of God's plan for humanity.

God says that we shall have no other god's before Him, that we shall worship only Him and nothing else.
Sadly, the majority of Christians do not worship God but they instead worship their denom, they worship their own beliefs and this is why they angrily defend these beliefs.

But of course these Christians cannot see this, they think they are worshipping God and defending God.
There is not one version of Christianity that has it all together, yet every one is defended at the correct one. Why is this ?

Well you would have to ask everyone that because each individual has their reasons and motives as to why they believe what they believe.

Yet, hmmm God says that His Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL TRUTH.
So I reckon bring back the IDD, I mean at least it will keep the denom worshipers out of the important sections of this forum.
Then everyone is happy.
The people that worship and love God can get on with the task of showing God to the world and the people that worship and love their denom can get on with arguing and hating everyone in the other denoms.

And then hopefully the world will see the huge difference between God and man's religion and the harvest will increase.

[ej]

How do you know about IDD when you registered only yesterday? :scratch:

[Erwin]

Having the ideal that the IDD would be a celebration of unity was a big ask don't you think ?

It is assuming that each denom worships the one true God, so of course we will get along fine because we are all filled with grace and love toward each other.

So it didn't turn out the way it was expected and these gracious loving Christians started arguing and abusing each other.
So IDD was unplugged because of what?
Embarrassment, reality didn't match the ideal ?

I reckon the IDD is a wonderful idea, because it shows the sad state of the Christianity community at the moment. And if we are confronted with it then
we are forced to acknowledge it and do something about it.

And if we think like "Oh we must show the world our unity and love and grace and IDD was not showing that so let's remove it so no one will see us like this"

Sadly, regardless of whether IDD is opened or closed, the world already knows about our hypocracy and internal fighting and hatred toward each other.

God never hides a problem and He doesn't want us to hide ours either.
The world looks at Christianity and just shakes it's head in disbelief.
I talk to so many non believers and this is what they think of Christians.
"Ignorant self righteous judgmental hypercrites" who then state that they wouldn't try Christianity if someone paid them a million $.

And the majority of Christians couldn't care less about that because they are too busy defending their version of God's plan for humanity.

God says that we shall have no other god's before Him, that we shall worship only Him and nothing else.
Sadly, the majority of Christians do not worship God but they instead worship their denom, they worship their own beliefs and this is why they angrily defend these beliefs.

But of course these Christians cannot see this, they think they are worshipping God and defending God.
There is not one version of Christianity that has it all together, yet every one is defended at the correct one. Why is this ?

Well you would have to ask everyone that because each individual has their reasons and motives as to why they believe what they believe.

Yet, hmmm God says that His Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL TRUTH.
So I reckon bring back the IDD, I mean at least it will keep the denom worshipers out of the important sections of this forum.
Then everyone is happy.
The people that worship and love God can get on with the task of showing God to the world and the people that worship and love their denom can get on with arguing and hating everyone in the other denoms.

And then hopefully the world will see the huge difference between God and man's religion and the harvest will increase.
I do agree with most of what you say.

However, the issue here is not only that IDD gives a bad testimony to non-believers - it is also damaging to relationships between different Christians, at least from experience.

The Protestant vs Catholic issue has been with CF since we started - we have always been the only online forums that have an equal amount of members from both sides - most sides are either pro-Protestant or pro-Catholic.

In any case, the staff did have a long discussion about this, and in the end, both Catholic, Protestant as well as staff from other churches all agreed almost unanimously that IDD should remain shut for the moment.

[Alternate Carpark]

How do you know about IDD when you registered only yesterday? :scratch:
Well...I came across CF yesterday While I was searching for another forum to interact in, and I was so impressed with the diversity of peoples and topics that I HAD to register.
Once again, A big thumbs up to all who developed this site.

In answer to your question ej.....well...um,
Luke 11:9 Ask and you'll get;Seek and you'll find;Knock and the door will open.

I wanted to know about IDD so I sought, and I found.

Erwin, in no way was my post an attack on the decision to close IDD.
I was just giving my opinion and I appreciate your maturity for not being offended by anything I said.
I have read some of your posts and I can see your maturity through them.
I must say that it was brave of you to start the IDD and also brave of you to close it, concidering the sad long history of this problem.

Joyfully respect your decision on this matter, as it must have been a tough call to make.

[Knight]

Has anyone else noticed that the IDD debates have moved to General Theology?

[Roman Soldier]

I can't find the old debate threads. I had one of my threads moved there and I want to see it.

[ej]

I can't find the old debate threads. I had one of my threads moved there and I want to see it.
Congratulations on your conversion :)

[Roman Soldier]

Congratulations on your conversion :)

Thank you. I wonder if I should bother offically joining the Episcopalian/Anglican Church. I'll have to look into it.

[Bulldog]

Yes, Roman Soldier, congrats. :) :clap:

[Erwin]

Believe it or not, the staff are still debating this issue. :) There is no wrong or right answer with this one... we need to seek God's wisdom.