iconoclasm

[All4Christ]

could someone explain to me what the iconoclasm was? I've done research in church history books, but they tend to have much less about Orthodoxy than they do about Catholicism. In general, they tend to have about one paragraph about it, and a few more pages about Orthodoxy (which of course tend to be repetitive throughout the books I've read). Admittedly, these are books that try to state solely historical facts and not beliefs, which I guess isn't the most conducive to explaining beliefs ;)

In any case, an Orthodox friend of mine is planning on lending me a book her priest gave her, but until then, I was hoping one of you could satisfy my curiosity by giving me a sneak preview.

Thanks!

--Laura

[ufonium2]

I'm not really familiar with the iconoclast heresy, other than I know it is attributed to Muslim influence (no images.) Until you get some better information, or someone smarter than me posts in this thread, I would suggest that it's OK to read what it says about iconoclasm in the Catholic history books you have. Iconoclasm happened before the Schism, so if it's factual and happened before 1054, it applies to both Churches.

[Michael the Iconographer]

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/LGFLS/summaries.shtml
http://www.mliles.com/melkite/greatlentsundaysfirst.shtml
http://neobyzantine.agrino.org/orthodoxy/history/iconoclast.htm

Why is Iconoclasm such a problematic heresy in the first place? Does it really matter if we have iconostasis and icons in our churches? There are many Christian denominations that seemingly get along fine this way. To deny that icons are permitable and are to be venerated is to not understand the nature of the words veneration and adoration, to not understand the dual nature of Christ, and to not understand the Old Testament. If you say God alone can be worshipped, you must differentiate between adoration which can be given to God alone and veneration which can be given to holy things. If however, you say we may not venerate holy icons because the spiritual is superior to the material and thus an icon made of wood and paint can’t be sacred, then you must remember that the uncircumscribed Son of God took on human flesh and in doing so sanctified all matter. To deny this is to deny the Divinity of Christ and the incarnation. Denial of the incarnation is a denial of the very basis of Christianity itself. Finally, to say having icons of the saints in our churches is to place the emphasis in the wrong place is to forget that the whole reason we honor the saints is because of the witness they bore to Christ. St. Nicholas takes a prominent place on the iconostasis not because of who St. Nicholas was, but rather because of the extreme witness he bore to Christ. When we honor St. Nicholas in the end we are really honoring Christ. Thus iconoclasm really ends up being a denial of Christ in one way or another. (Thank you for tolerating the repost of this paragraph.)

[All4Christ]

St. Nicholas as in Nicholas of Clemanges?

[Michael the Iconographer]

St. Nicholas as in Nicholas of Clemanges?

I was referring to St. Nicholas of Myra, but the point is that no matter what saint we venerate we are not venerating the saint because of what they did but rather because of how much they loved Christ.

[All4Christ]

I realize that that isn't essential to the point; I was just curious because I'm currently studying St. Nicholas of Clemenges in my Church History class ::shrug:: Problem is, it starts the Church history in 1250, so I don't get the full history of the Church.

[ufonium2]

Problem is, it starts the Church history in 1250, so I don't get the full history of the Church.
What a random (and wrong) time to start a Church history course! If you don't mind my asking, what affiliation is your university?

[Eusebios]

*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BrushStroke again.*
AARGH! foiled again. Excellent post Michael.
In XP,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Moros]

Found this and changed the wording a bit.

The first Iconoclastic period: 730-787

In the early Church, veneration of Icons (Holy artistic depictions of Christ, the Theotokos and the Saints, as well as events occurring in the Scriptures) was very popular in the Eastern portion of the Roman Empire, whereas the veneration of three-dimensional statues was more prevalent in the West. Under the influence of Judaism and Islam, Emperor Leo III banned the veneration of Holy Icons as a form of idolatry and image worship in 730. Under the Iconoclasts, (literally "Image-Smashers) holy Icons were destroyed, defendants of Iconography were persecuted, and the heresy even went so far as to defile and destroy Holy Relics of the Saints. Constantine the V, Leo's successor, continued the brutal persecution of Iconophiles. (literally: Icon-favoring)

The 7th Ecumenical Council, Nicaea II, was convened by Empress Irene with the hopes of defeating the Iconoclast heresy. Truth prevailed, and the veneration of Icons was affirmed while Icon worship was rightly forbidden. Iconography prevailed mainly due to the Doctrine of the Incarnation, which defines that since God the Son was made Incarnate, having a physical appearance and appearing in the flesh, it is possible to physically depict Him. Icon veneration prevailed through the reign of Nicephorus I, successor to Irene, and the two brief reigns after his.

The second Iconoclastic period: 813-843

Emperor Leo V restored the Iconoclast heresy in 813, which was not as severe as the first period. Leo was succeeded by Michael II, who was succeeded by his son, Theophilus II. Theophilus died and his wife Theodora restored the veneration of Icons in 843.

The first Sunday of Lent is celebrated in the Orthodox Church as the feast of the Triumph of Orthodoxy.

[Moros]

http://www.yourencyclopedia.net/Iconoclasm.html

[All4Christ]

Ufonium2,

it's technically anabaptist/weslyan/pietist, though over half the people there don't affiliate themselves with them.

Thanks so much everyone for helping answer my question! I look forward to any other responses and to reading the book that is at sometime going to be loaned to me

[Michael the Iconographer]

The important thing to note about Iconoclasm is that it is not just some 8-9th C heresy which plagued the church. Iconoclam can take on many different faces, and it still shows up in modernday Christianity, whether Orthodox or unOrthodox.