Question about Orthodox Churches...

[DXRocker73]

Hello Everyone,

I'm not very well versed on Orthodox Denominations and I want to know if what I think is true or not.

I myself am a Roman Catholic, and I was lead to believe (By bits of things I read.) that Orthodox Churches (As in Eastern Orthodox Churches, such as Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox etc. etc.) believed in the same Faith as the Catholic Churches, but did not accept the same hierarchy or some Catholic practices.

What I mean by faith, is that you basically have the same doctrines we do, such as belief that the Eucharist is true body and blood of Jesus Christ, Purgatory, and even Marian doctrines. But you don't accept the Pope in the Vatican as the Authority and so on.

I was also lead to believe this because I thought this was what seperated Orthodox from Protestant denominations. Orthodox accepted the faith of the Church, but split over hierarchal disputes. Protestants however, rejected pretty much everything the Catholic Church used. The difference between schism and reformation.

Please and let me know what you can, I'll continue to look it up.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Welcome to TAW DxRocker73,

You have the same misconception that most Roman Catholics have of Orthodoxy. I had the same misconception when I was a Roman Catholic Seminarian prior to my conversion to Orthodoxy. I do not have alot of time, but here are the major differences:

First off, Orthodoxy does not have denominations. There is one Orthodox Church. People calling themselves Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc. merely are denoting what culture they come from and which set of bishops they are under but we are all united in one Orthodox faith. Also, if you read Church history you will see that 1 Patriarch (Rome) schismed from the other 4. I won't get back into that argument, but who broke communion with who?

Next, we agree with Rome on most of the major things, however there are major differences.

3. Original Sin-Man does not directly bear the sin of adam on his soul. Original Sin is more like having a flaw in our nature rather than personal stain of the sin on his soul.

4. Ecclesiology-no Bishop has any authority outside his own Diocese except when acting in union with all of the rest of the Bishops of the Church in a Council. This is base is the writings of 1st C. St. Ignatius of Antioch and the First Ecumenical Council. Thus we reject the ideas of Universal Jurisdiction and Papal Infallibility. The only definitive statements which are universally binding are those of an Ecummenical Council.

5. While Orthodox agree with Catholics on the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, we do not insist on the use of the term Transubstantiation. God is a mystery and it is not wise to spend too much time trying to explain what is unexplainable.

6. Scholasticism-The Catholic Church took on the Scholastic school of thought in the middle ages. Scholasticism seeks a philosophical explanation for everything. Orthodoxy focuses more on mystery and only tends to define things when it is forced to by heresy. This may look trivial and small, but it is a major difference and totally effects everything that we as Orthodox do.

7. Mary-While we love the Theotokus and give total respect and honor to her, we patently reject the idea that Mary is 1. Mediatrix of all Graces and 2. Co-Redemptrix.

8. Purgatory-Because of the Orthodox view of Original Sin Orthodox Christians have no need for a doctrine like Purgatory.


Hello Everyone,

I'm not very well versed on Orthodox Denominations and I want to know if what I think is true or not.

I myself am a Roman Catholic, and I was lead to believe (By bits of things I read.) that Orthodox Churches (As in Eastern Orthodox Churches, such as Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox etc. etc.) believed in the same Faith as the Catholic Churches, but did not accept the same hierarchy or some Catholic practices.

What I mean by faith, is that you basically have the same doctrines we do, such as belief that the Eucharist is true body and blood of Jesus Christ, Purgatory, and even Marian doctrines. But you don't accept the Pope in the Vatican as the Authority and so on.

I was also lead to believe this because I thought this was what seperated Orthodox from Protestant denominations. Orthodox accepted the faith of the Church, but split over hierarchal disputes. Protestants however, rejected pretty much everything the Catholic Church used. The difference between schism and reformation.

Please and let me know what you can, I'll continue to look it up.

[Catherineanne]

Welcome to TAW DxRocker73,

Next, we agree with Rome on most of the major things, however there are major differences.

3. Original Sin-Man does not directly bear the sin of adam on his soul. Original Sin is more like having a flaw in our nature rather than personal stain of the sin on his soul.





There is nothing in your post about Orthodox beliefs that I would argue with at all, as an Anglican. I can happily go along with all of that.

Which is probably why I am able to share the Eucharist in an Orthodox church, but not a Roman one. :wave:

[Catherineanne]

Protestants however, rejected pretty much everything the Catholic Church used. The difference between schism and reformation.


At the Reformation, the first level of attack was the abuses of the then Catholic church, rather than the beliefs. Priests and monks were condemned for being worldly and materialistic, and for preying on the gullible and the innocent around them to make vast fortunes, such as by selling indulgences giving time off purgatory.

At a second level, there was a clear division between Canon (church) law and state law. The catholic church did not recognise any authority higher than itself, and did not allow clerks to be tried in secular courts. In practice this meant that priests who had committed serious crimes such as rape or murder could not be tried in a secular court, only by the church. And as we still see today, the church's idea of what should happen to an erring priest are not always the same as everyone else's ideas.

At the same time the Pope was not just a spiritual leader, as he is today. He was a powerful political figure, and mixed himself up with politics, wars, invasions of foregn lands; you name it he did it.

We are always told that Henry VIII established the Church of England in order to achieve a divorce from Katherine of Aragon. It is much more complicated than that. He did it to free England from the malign jurisdiction of a foreign prince; the Pope, whose actions were not always - or perhaps rarely - in English interests. His justification was that England was itself an empire, and as such could be subject to no higher power. Therefore, as King of England, he became Head of the Church in England.

In terms of theology, however, the Roman and Anglican churches are very similar, and many services have very parallel content. Transubstantiation is one area of debate, and more recently the ordination of women.

[Matrona]

There is nothing in your post about Orthodox beliefs that I would argue with at all, as an Anglican. I can happily go along with all of that.

Which is probably why I am able to share the Eucharist in an Orthodox church, but not a Roman one. :wave:
Being permitted to receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox church requires much more than "going along with" something. One must confess the Holy Orthodox Faith and no other. One must be chrismated (or baptized and chrismated if one hasn't received a trinitarian baptism) and received into the Church. And one so received must no longer consider themselves part of a heterodox communion nor should one commune there. Only when one has properly prepared himself/herself by fasting, prayer, and recent confession, may an Orthodox Christian receive the Eucharist. If you have received communion in an Orthodox church without following any one of these steps, STOP IMMEDIATELY AND SPEAK TO AN ORTHODOX PRIEST.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Being permitted to receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox church requires much more than "going along with" something. One must confess the Holy Orthodox Faith and no other. One must be chrismated (or baptized and chrismated if one hasn't received a trinitarian baptism) and received into the Church. And one so received must no longer consider themselves part of a heterodox communion nor should one commune there. Only when one has properly prepared himself/herself by fasting, prayer, and recent confession, may an Orthodox Christian receive the Eucharist. If you have received communion in an Orthodox church without following any one of these steps, STOP IMMEDIATELY AND SPEAK TO AN ORTHODOX PRIEST.

Being it wont let me rep you, I must publicly praise you for your comments Matrona.

[DXRocker73]

Thanks very much to the both of you for your help.:)

I read a lot of Christian literature and most of it speaks of the differences between Catholic and Protestant faiths, but not much explanation is placed on Orthodox Churches. I'm now starting to read more on those Churches.

I've always thought Orthodox art was so beautiful.

Two things though - I can't speak for other Orthodox Churches, but I was pretty sure Greek Orthodox believed in Purgatory? I may be wrong so please feel free to correct me.

Also, at this point, the Virgin Mary being co-redemptrix is not an official Catholic doctrine. Many believe it however and it is likely to become doctrine, but at this point it is not.

One more question, and please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by Mary being Mediatrix of all graces?

[Michael the Iconographer]

Also, at this point, the Virgin Mary being co-redemptrix is not an official Catholic doctrine. Many believe it however and it is likely to become doctrine, but at this point it is not.

One more question, and please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by Mary being Mediatrix of all graces?

Co-Redemptrix was proclaimed doctrine about 7 or 8 years ago. Mediatrix of All Graces is the Catholic doctrine which says that all grace flows through Mary. For obvious reasons we Orthodox have major issues with these ideas. Mary is the Theotokus, the God bearer, but she is NOT Theos.

[Catherineanne]

Being permitted to receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox church requires much more than "going along with" something. One must confess the Holy Orthodox Faith and no other. One must be chrismated (or baptized and chrismated if one hasn't received a trinitarian baptism) and received into the Church. And one so received must no longer consider themselves part of a heterodox communion nor should one commune there. Only when one has properly prepared himself/herself by fasting, prayer, and recent confession, may an Orthodox Christian receive the Eucharist. If you have received communion in an Orthodox church without following any one of these steps, STOP IMMEDIATELY AND SPEAK TO AN ORTHODOX PRIEST.I think you just lost a lot of points for Orthodoxy there. At the time I took communion in a Greek Orthodox church, admittedly some years ago, I was told by an Orthodox priest that the Anglican and Greek churches were in full communion, and that I was welcome. At the time I was living far from an Anglican church, and was therefore unable to meet the needs of Holy Days. If I am wrong about that then I am sorry, but your reaction is hardly welcoming, is it? And I like your suggestion that an Anglican may take communion without preparing properly, or that my faith is the kind of 'going along with' faith. Lots of presuppositions there, which are not terribly kind.

I didn't drop down dead from a thunderbolt, so rest assured God can't have been as horrified as you clearly are.

<Shakes head in disbelief and wanders away.>

[Matrona]

I think you just lost a lot of points for Orthodoxy there.
Representing Orthodoxy is not about scoring points with inquirers or shaping the pill to go down easier. Everyone eats the whole enchilada. We are supposed to follow the 2000-year-old Holy Tradition of the Orthodox Church, not "everyone just do what makes you feel good".

At the time I took communion in a Greek Orthodox church, admittedly some years ago, I was told by an Orthodox priest that the Anglican and Greek churches were in full communion, and that I was welcome.
There is absolutely no reason that a canonical Orthodox priest would ever tell you that the Anglican church is in communion with us. So perhaps the priest you spoke to is not canonical, in which case he isn't Orthodox but likes to pretend that he is.

If he was canonical, though, the only explanation I can think of is that perhaps the priest thought you were Western-Rite Orthodox. Western-Rite Orthodox are fully Orthodox in doctrine and are in communion with us, but instead of worshipping with the regular Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Church, they use a Divine Liturgy that is a modified form of the rite in the 1692 Anglican Book of Common Prayer. Despite their Anglican service, Western-Rite Orthodox are not Anglican and are not in communion with the Anglican Communion, they are Orthodox. Since you are Anglican, you are not Orthodox.

At the time I was living far from an Anglican church, and was therefore unable to meet the needs of Holy Days. If I am wrong about that then I am sorry, but your reaction is hardly welcoming, is it?I'm sorry if you find me offensive but what I am saying represents the teaching of the Orthodox Church. We are not in communion with anyone outside the Holy Orthodox Faith. If you think that makes us lonely then know that the Holy Orthodox Church cares for 250 million baptized souls in this world and an untold number in the Church Triumphant.

And I like your suggestion that an Anglican may take communion without preparing properly, or that my faith is the kind of 'going along with' faith. Lots of presuppositions there, which are not terribly kind.
You said it yourself: "I can happily go along with all of that." Not my words, but yours. And I was not making a judgment call about Anglican communion practice, I was trying to explain that in the Orthodox Church, preparation for communion is taken very seriously in addition to requiring that one be a member of the Orthodox Church.

I didn't drop down dead from a thunderbolt, so rest assured God can't have been as horrified as you clearly are.

<Shakes head in disbelief and wanders away.>
You might not have died from receiving one time but Scripture backs us up on the fact that receiving communion unworthily is extremely dangerous to one's health. St Paul notes it in his first letter to the Corinthians.

Ask any canonical Orthodox priest and he will tell you the exact same things I have told you.

[DXRocker73]

Co-Redemptrix was proclaimed doctrine about 7 or 8 years ago. Mediatrix of All Graces is the Catholic doctrine which says that all grace flows through Mary. For obvious reasons we Orthodox have major issues with these ideas. Mary is the Theotokus, the God bearer, but she is NOT Theos

Hate to disagree with you man, but Mary being Co-redemptric still remains not an official Church docrine. Like I said, many believe it, but it's not something you'll find in the Catechism or a Papal document just yet.

[Oblio]

Hate to disagree with you man, but ...


[mod hat]
DX,

Brushstroke gave his belief on the doctrine, let's not debate it here as it is not allowed per our rules.

Also I might advise that you stick to questions on the Orthodox faith to preclude a EOC/RCC debate an the inevitable squabble and threadlocking :)

[/hat]

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

Catherineanne, what Matrona told you is all right. First of all, you are not allowed as someone from ourside of Orthodox faith to recieve Evharist from Orthodox Church. noone who is not Baptized in Orthodox Church is allowed to get Euharist. And other than that, before you get Communion you gotta fast how many days your priest says you should, and when you fast you can't eat meat and milk and dairy products(nothign with eggs or anything that comes from animals), u can't dance, can't have sex, can't drink alcohol, can't drink, you gotta watch how u act and all that, and you can't drink water and eat after midnight before you go and take communion, and you gotta do a confession. It's very serious thing to do and we don't do it every sunday(most of us, but you can if you are fasting all the time). That's why you, as a non-Orthodox, can't take Communion in Orthodox Church, and Matrona said everthing right. She didn't try to be nice or rude, she just said the truth and I think she did a fine job:thumbsup:

[prodromos]

Dear Catherineanne,
how long ago did you attend the Greek Orthodox church and where? The reason I ask is because at one time there seemed a real chance that the Anglican church would become Orthodox. At the time Timothy Ware (now Bishop Kallistos) discovered Orthodoxy, he was told by the Greek priest he was in contact with to remain in the Anglican church as they were on the brink of becoming Orthodox (there was a lot of dialogue between the Anglicans and the Orthodox then). Of course this never happened and eventually Mr Ware lost patience and became a catachumen at the Russian church. Since then, the prospect of the Anglican church entering communion with the Orthodox has become far less likely given the changes that have occurred.

The fact of the matter is that the Anglican church and the Orthodox church were never in communion at any time, though there was a time when communion seemed imminent. There was a great deal of optimism at the time and if this is the period when you had communion then it seems likely that the priest had been misinformed or he let his optimism get the better of him. However the truth is he should never have given you communion and he erred quite seriously in doing so.

John.

[countrymousenc]

Catherineanne, it is true that you cannot receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox church until you convert. I'd like to let you know, however, that not all jurisdictions handle it the way Marina described. There are historical and cultural dynamics behind the strictness of some jurisdictions. Here in the US in the OCA, which has been here for several generations and is fairly non-ethnic, many priests now encourage the people to receive communion every week. The reason is that so many are voluntarily Orthodox and fewer and fewer are culturally or nominally Orthodox (in other words, part of the Church only because it's a family expectation.) Of those who are basically culturally Orthodox, they continue to commune infrequently. At my home parish we have several people who mostly come in at the end of the service each week, venerate icons, light candles, and leave.

If Orthodoxy were to become the predominant faith here (the socially acceptable thing), then it might become necessary to be more strict again.

[Catherineanne]

Catherineanne, it is true that you cannot receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox church until you convert. I'd like to let you know, however, that not all jurisdictions handle it the way Marina described.



Thank you for your relatively unimpassioned comments. I am able to respond to them, because I do not feel that you view me as akin to a leper, which many of the other people in this thread have made me feel, whatever their intention. I am a fellow Christian, not some kind of virus that you are going to catch if you are not careful. I am very sorry I ever mentioned that act of communion, which was to me a good and holy event. I have always viewed the Orthodox faith with respect as a sister faith, but clearly we are hardly cousins, and barely on speaking terms as it appears.

I always wondered why the Orthodox faith and the Roman Catholic faith parted company. I think I have a very good idea now.

I am not Our Lord, but what if I were? Would everyone here have spoken to him as they have to me, with shouting about don't do it again or else? I hope you are all proud of yourselves.

I have nothing more to say here.

Pax vobiscum.

[countrymousenc]

Thank you for your relatively unimpassioned comments. I am able to respond to them, because I do not feel that you view me as akin to a leper, which many of the other people in this thread have made me feel, whatever their intention. I am a fellow Christian, not some kind of virus that you are going to catch if you are not careful. I am very sorry I ever mentioned that act of communion, which was to me a good and holy event. I have always viewed the Orthodox faith with respect as a sister faith, but clearly we are hardly cousins, and barely on speaking terms as it appears.

I always wondered why the Orthodox faith and the Roman Catholic faith parted company. I think I have a very good idea now.

I am not Our Lord, but what if I were? Would everyone here have spoken to him as they have to me, with shouting about don't do it again or else? I hope you are all proud of yourselves.

I have nothing more to say here.

Pax vobiscum.

I'm sorry that you got the impression that closed communion means that you are viewed like a leper. Those who responded to you first were only concerned for your spiritual safety, because receiving the Eucharist in a disorderly or irregular manner is a dangerous thing to do. Also, to share in the Eucharist is to identify oneself with the Eucharistic community, which means to be of one spirit, mind, and heart with the rest of that community. I would no longer want to receive communion in other churches because I do not agree with some of the things that they practice and teach as dogma, as well as some of the things most of them permit as a matter of policy.

For most Protestant denominations, open communion is a fairly recent development in church history. You will find, also, that Roman Catholic communion is closed communion as well. The two churches mutually disfellowshipped each other, by the way.

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

I didn't mean to be rude but I am sick of pretending. You all know she can't take Communion in ANY kind of OC even if she was the Queen of England and what she did is a serious thing and not just uhhh it happened...so what? If some of you guys take Orthodoxy this way then...God be with you.

[countrymousenc]

I didn't mean to be rude but I am sick of pretending. You all know she can't take Communion in ANY kind of OC even if she was the Queen of England and what she did is a serious thing and not just uhhh it happened...so what? If some of you guys take Orthodoxy this way then...God be with you.

Marina, I hope my posts did not give you the impression that I think it's ok for heterodox Christians to commune in Orthodox churches. It isn't. But sometimes we say things in ways that end up offending others unnecessarily, and I'm trying to be careful not to do that.

[ufonium2]

I didn't mean to be rude but I am sick of pretending. You all know she can't take Communion in ANY kind of OC even if she was the Queen of England and what she did is a serious thing and not just uhhh it happened...so what? If some of you guys take Orthodoxy this way then...God be with you. Did anyone say it was not a serious thing? Forgive us for explaining to her why it was wrong and what circumstance may have caused this instead of just yelling at her.

We don't "take" Orthodoxy any less seriously than you or anyone else. We want people to want to be Orthodox, so we try not to be jerks to people when they come to us. Nobody said it was OK that this happened, but we acknowledge that we can't undo it. We explained to her why she shouldn't do it again until and unless she is Orthodox. I think it was handled very well.

"Fundies" are a hinderance to evangelism in any faith. In my hometown the problem was with "fundy" Pentecostals who acted like total jerks toward everyone not in their church, but held themselves up to be Christian because they only wore skirts and didn't drink. This did nothing but alienate people and give a whole town a distorted, hateful view of Christianity.

Right now, that is what's happening at TAW. There have been some downright hateful posts directed at Roman Catholics, and even Orthodox Christians who weren't lucky enough to be born into the church (and it is luck, it's no accomplishment to be "cradle" anything.)

Ever see those bumper stickers that say "Jesus loves you but everyone else thinks you're a jerk"? That's what TAW has turned into over the weekend.

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

Hey do you think i am PROUD because I was born Orthodox and think all of you guys are not superior to ones that have already been born Orthodox?:confused: :sigh: :cry: NO we are all the same! If you do then i really made a wrong impression because I LOVE TO HEAR PPL CONVERTING TO ORTHDOXY. If you followed my posts, in many posts I say bad things about Serbs and how they are not religious and how you guys are more religious than any Serb I know....I didn't mean to make u feel the way u do because of what I said. But it made me mad that our Anglican sister said how we are not nice to her and some ppl said nothing about that as if you know it's alright she can say whatever she wants about our Orthodox brothers and sisters,who cares? If she thinks we are not nice for telling the Truth then I guess we should lie...:eek: and I wasn't yelling but now I feel like screaming.:mad: I feel as if I just came to canada and everyone pretends they don't get what I am trying to say because I am foreign...frogive if I again offended some souls here, it's not my intention. God be with you.

P.S.: Don't mind my sreaming, i am very angry these days for some reason and I hope I get well soon cuz I can't take it anymore.

[countrymousenc]

Hey do you think i am PROUD because I was born Orthodox and think all of you guys are not superior to ones that have already been born Orthodox?:confused: :sigh: :cry: NO we are all the same! If you do then i really made a wrong impression because I LOVE TO HEAR PPL CONVERTING TO ORTHDOXY. If you followed my posts, in many posts I say bad things about Serbs and how they are not religious and how you guys are more religious than any Serb I know....I didn't mean to make u feel the way u do because of what I said. But it made me mad that our Anglican sister said how we are not nice to her and some ppl said nothing about that as if you know it's alright she can say whatever she wants about our Orthodox brothers and sisters,who cares? If she thinks we are not nice for telling the Truth then I guess we should lie...:eek: and I wasn't yelling but now I feel like screaming.:mad: I feel as if I just came to canada and everyone pretends they don't get what I am trying to say because I am foreign...frogive if I again offended some souls here, it's not my intention. God be with you.

P.S.: Don't mind my sreaming, i am very angry these days for some reason and I hope I get well soon cuz I can't take it anymore.

Marina, have a cyberhug and a glass of wine, and I wish I could give them to you for real. I know it can be awfully frustrating. I'm pretty sure we all still love you 'round here. Thanks for being honest.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Hey do you think i am PROUD because I was born Orthodox and think all of you guys are not superior to ones that have already been born Orthodox?:confused: :sigh: :cry: NO we are all the same! If you do then i really made a wrong impression because I LOVE TO HEAR PPL CONVERTING TO ORTHDOXY. If you followed my posts, in many posts I say bad things about Serbs and how they are not religious and how you guys are more religious than any Serb I know....I didn't mean to make u feel the way u do because of what I said. But it made me mad that our Anglican sister said how we are not nice to her and some ppl said nothing about that as if you know it's alright she can say whatever she wants about our Orthodox brothers and sisters,who cares? If she thinks we are not nice for telling the Truth then I guess we should lie...:eek: and I wasn't yelling but now I feel like screaming.:mad: I feel as if I just came to canada and everyone pretends they don't get what I am trying to say because I am foreign...frogive if I again offended some souls here, it's not my intention. God be with you.

P.S.: Don't mind my sreaming, i am very angry these days for some reason and I hope I get well soon cuz I can't take it anymore.

No offense taken Marina. It is good to see love of Orthodoxy amongst the Orthodox and you are right, we should tell the truth no matter how much it might offend other people. May God bless you.

[ufonium2]

Marina, I'm sorry. I took your sentence "if that's how you take Orthodoxy then..." as the last straw in something that had been building up for two days. I understand English is not your first language, and I should've taken that into account before I freaked out. But, considering that I've had my baptism declared invalid and then seen awful things said about our Catholic brethren (both by posters whose claim to superiority stems from being born to Orthodox parents) in the past 48 hours, I'm not suprised that it happened.

So, again I apologize. I guess the reason I freaked out at you was because I've never heard you say things like that before, and I was afraid you had joined the "Orthodoxer than thou" ranks that seem to be growing in this forum. Please forgive me.

[DXRocker73]

Brushstroke gave his belief on the doctrine, let's not debate it here as it is not allowed per our rules.

No prob there, no debate intended. Just pointing out that Roman Catholics do not believe the Virgin Mary is con-redemptrix.

I would ask more questions, but I think I got what I needed to knoe answered, if I need anything else I will return here to ask more.

Thanks again guys.

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

Hello everyone!

I am SO GLAD that you understood what I was trying to say and here's a hug:hug: and a kiss:kiss: for all of you. I don't have nothing to forgive to any of you, u did nothing wrong. But i ask that u forgive me for being a jerk, I guess it's because school was about to start and I am really stressed out because I got two jobs and I don't know how i'll make it to the end of the year. And sometimes I will say things very honestly and don't think it's because I freaked out, it's just because it makes me mad when something is wrong, then it gotta be wrong and period, u know? anyways, I don't know you guys but I really love you as my brothers and sisters and I wish I knew you, sometimes I really need to talk to some religious ppl, because I don't know anyone around my age except my sister and one other friend that is religious. Thanx for being here;) God be with you and Byezz:)

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Marina's posts always put a smile on my face.:D God bless you, little sis.:liturgy: