Water baptizm?

[Droobie]

Is water baptizm required as part of our salvation or not?

[Konnie]

Yes, we must be baptized.

[billiefan2000]

Konnie,if that is true how was the Thief on the Cross saved since he wasnt baptized in water

[taekwondo_chik]

You can't go out and just 'say' that you believe and follow Christ. You have to prove it. We all need to live Christ like lives. Not only is it the right thing to do, but it is also a commandment, and what Heavenly Father wants us to do. Sure, you can probably make it into heaven without getting baptized, but you will not recieve the full glory that you can get unless you are baptized. Christ said that no man can go to the father unless it be through him. He is the way, the truth and the light. Hence, we must be like Christ and do what he did. Christ was baptized by immersion. Now, we usually think of baptism as the washing away of our sins. Guess what? Christ was perfect. He did not sin. Yet, he still got baptized. He did this to set the example for us. By getting baptized, it shows that you have faith in Christ. Remember how he suffered and died for us on the cross? You wouldn't take that in vain would you? Well, you really can't repent and fully honor his sacrifice for you unless you yourself make a sacrifice and believe in his name and get baptized.

[n2wolves]

Konnie,if that is true how was the Thief on the Cross saved since he wasnt baptized in water
People were still living under the OT til after Christ's death, then the NT took effect.Thus water baptism is essential for salvation.:yum:

[Jesus-is-the-best]

Baptism is NOT required for salvation, but we need to be baptized anyway. Because we need to show the world are choice to become a Christian. I was baptised when I was 8 I think. But YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN. But like I said you need to show the world that you have chosen to become a Christian.

Those a my 2 cents worth...

[shapu]

Baptism is NOT required for salvation, but we need to be baptized anyway. Because we need to show the world are choice to become a Christian. I was baptised when I was 8 I think. But YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN. But like I said you need to show the world that you have chosen to become a Christian.

Those a my 2 cents worth...

I'm Christian and was not baptized - but non-Evangelical Friends (of which I am one) don't do baptism, so there you go. If your church, or your beliefs, require you to be baptized, then by all means do it.

This is the sort of question that has parallels in the Hadith, and in Islamic theological debate...

EDIT: Ooo...by the way, could someone post a verse/verses or a link to the book where I may find that baptism is a requirement for salvation?

[billiefan2000]

Mark 16:16

He who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved; but he who believes not will be condemned.

Here are some other verses to check out.

Romans 6:3-4

Galatians 3: 26-20

Colossians 2:12

Those are good verses for starters although there are plenty more.

I highly recommend that you be baptized. Also, it isn't necessary for a 'priest' or 'pastor' to do it. Any believer can baptize you - whether in a bathtub or lake or whatever. But these verses indicate that being baptized is being buried with Christ, and being put into the body where there is no Jew or Gentile. Not something to be taken lightly.

[shapu]

Mark 16:16

He who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved; but he who believes not will be condemned.


That's interesting - it makes no note of those who are have not had a baptism - only those who don't believe. Perhaps it's a section lost to the ages.

Here, I'll provide a good verse in exchange (information exchange being the lifeblood of the Internet, after all):
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

There are others of similar meaning and consequence: that belief and acceptance of Christ is a baptism in and of itself.

[daydreamergurl15]

Konnie,if that is true how was the Thief on the Cross saved since he wasnt baptized in water

If you haven't notice Jesus Christ has not died yet and therefore they are still under the old law. Have you not notice that Jesus himself got baptized and John the baptized paved the way so people can start getting baptized and stop sacrifising things. We now sacrifice ourself. Remember this scripture

Romans 6
3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

1 Peter 3
20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[1] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

You can not just believe you have to prove that belief, many people even demons believe in Christ, you have to take action on your beliefs and baptizm is something that he asks you too. Why would Jesus a sinless man, get baptized if it was not necessary for us too. Please quit teaching what man thinks and start teaching what the Lord has written. Baptism is one that he says to, point blank, it's not even that hard go up and profess your love, by saying that you believe that Jesus was the son of God and your get fully submerged (of course in Christ) how easy is that, you become a completely new creature and you are sinless for that one moment (of course we will sin again but Christ will forgive us of our sins).

I don't understand why we cry and whine and try and finds not to get baptize, Jesus did it, we need to also. If we teach what Christ said, we would never go wrong.
-God bless

[daydreamergurl15]

Baptism is NOT required for salvation, but we need to be baptized anyway. Because we need to show the world are choice to become a Christian. I was baptised when I was 8 I think. But YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN. But like I said you need to show the world that you have chosen to become a Christian.

Those a my 2 cents worth...

Show me in the bible where you do not have to be baptize to become a christian. Have you notice that in the bible those who are called Christians are the ones who has been baptized and are following christ.

[katylees]

well i think u need to be baptized but i don't think it is necessary to be baptized to be a christian cus i haven't been baptized yet but i'm still a christian

[Cozmo]

Baptism is the outward showing to the rest of the world that you have given your life to God. The spiritual cleansing of your old life into a new life. Now, if by chance, you confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, have given your heart to Him and don't have the time or ability to get baptized before you die, like the thief on the cross, you are still saved. But those are usually (at least in America) excrutiating circumstances. If you don't fall into a circumstance like that, then yes, you absolutely, positively need to be baptized. The Bible is very clear on that.
:angel:

[The teacher]

Acts 2
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It appears that Peter commanded repentance and baptism to those who asked what they should do. Is it any different today? I don't think so.

God bless.

[billiefan2000]

Show me in the bible where you do not have to be baptize to become a christian. Have you notice that in the bible those who are called Christians are the ones who has been baptized and are following christ.


Simple the thief on the cross

[leesw]

The Bible is so clear on this. The theif on the cross died before Jesus did. Therefore, he was under the old, Jewish law. He didn't have to be baptized. Besides, Jesus is the one who pronounced him (the theif) saved and He can save anyone he wants.

The Bible (if you want to listen to it) CLEARLY says, "Peter said to them, repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

It doesn't matter what anyones "two cents" is or what anyone's opinion or beliefs are. What matters is what the Bible says.

The Bible says, "Batism also now saves us" (1 Peter 3:21).

Romans 6:4 says we are buried with Him by baptism.

In Mark 16:16 JESUS clearly says, "He that believes AND is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Some people will say "ah hah" he said that only those who don't believe will be condemned and no "those who haven't been baptized." Answer? He didn't have to say those who don't believe and those who aren't baptized will be condemned. In the first sentence he said what it took to be saved--belief and baptism. In the second sentence, he said what it took to be condemned--not believing. All you have to do to be lost is not believe and nothing else matters.

In the New Testament, people didn't wait to be baptized. They didn't say "I'm saved, but I'm going to be baptized next month." Baptism was a part of repentence and accepting Christ into their hearts. There was no sinners prayer. No. They simply obeyed God by being baptized and He did the rest.

I think 2nd Kings 5 is an appropriate story for Christians today who reject what the Bible says about baptism.

2 Kings 5:11 But Naaman went away angry and said, "I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. 12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than any of the waters of Israel? Couldn't I wash in them and be cleansed?" So he turned and went off in a rage.
13 Naaman's servants went to him and said, "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more, then, when he tells you, 'Wash and be cleansed'!"

And I'll close with what Peter said (inspired by the Holy Spirit). Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." And of course, it says in the next chapter that God only added those to the church who had been baptized.

No if, and's or but's. Just what the Bible (God's Word) says. Why not just accept it? I have, though I used to not. I just couldn't get around those verses. And shouldn't have. It's GOD'S WORD!

Lee

[billiefan2000]

If that is true,than why do most Christian Preachers in the USA not preach that it is mandatory then?

[Kathy]

I am a christian (catholic) and I feel you must be baptized,it's not a question of should be, you have to, to have your sins taken away....everyone is born with original sin.to be clean from sin...this is my belief anyways....

[Angeldove97]

Jesus is our example of how God wants us to act. I was baptized as a baby in a Russian Orthodox church, but since I have personally becomed Saved and am now Protestant, I feel like I need to be baptized again. I would rather have my children decide when, if they become Saved, if they wish to be baptized. The best example is that even Jesus, who was completely sinless, was baptized and He was setting the best example for a human to live ever. Love, Tanya

[The teacher]

If that is true,than why do most Christian Preachers in the USA not preach that it is mandatory then?
98% of the preachers that I know preach it is mandatory according to the word below:

Acts 2
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

God bless.

[molly]

If Jesus felt He needed to be baptised with water then shouldn't we?

[MAC]

Not required for Salvation, for what cleansed my sin was the blood of the Lamb and not the water over my head. But it is a presentation of having your life guided by God in from of the world.

If water was the payment and cleanser of my sins I would have no need of my Savior?

[daydreamergurl15]

Not required for Salvation, for what cleansed my sin was the blood of the Lamb and not the water over my head. But it is a presentation of having your life guided by God in from of the world.

If water was the payment and cleanser of my sins I would have no need of my Savior?

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as, heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And theysaid, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.
Act 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

This would have been the perfect time for Paul to tell us that baptism was not essential, he uses circumcisions to tell us it's not necessary so why not write that baptism was not essential. Because he knew it was. If baptism was not required for salvation then the bible would not have had the scriptures about baptism, and Jesus himself got baptized (to show us how to follow in his footsteps b/c he did not need it.)

-God Bless

[daydreamergurl15]

Simple the thief on the cross

No, the theif on the cross was not called a christian that was my question. Jesus has not died yet. The name christian came about after Jesus's death, and they were the people who got baptized and followed in the footsteps of christ, even though they have sinned, they commited their life to him and repented for what they do.

So, I ask again, show me in the bible where you do not have to be baptize to become a christian.

-God Bless

[MAC]

What about Acts 4:12 where it tells us that there is no Salvation in no other ONE not water but in no other One.

[daydreamergurl15]

I am a christian (catholic) and I feel you must be baptized,it's not a question of should be, you have to, to have your sins taken away....everyone is born with original sin.to be clean from sin...this is my belief anyways....

I'm a christian, I don't believe we are born with the original sins or Adam , the bible says that we are sinful b/c of our desires and choices for not obeying God and that is why we need to get saved. He also gives us five steps (you will find the steps in the bible, in different places) that we take to get get saved and one is confessing your sins, "confessing your sins, not Adam and Eve's."

Matthew 3
5People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan. 6Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
(him--is John the Baptize). There are many other places in the bible, that says specifically, your own sins, not refering to Adam and Eves.

Because we have a nature to do our own desires is why we sin, just like Adam and Eve who made their choice, we also sometimes make the wrong choices that is why we are sinful.

[daydreamergurl15]

What about Acts 4:12 where it tells us that there is no Salvation in no other ONE not water but in no other One.

Yeah, we get baptize in the name of Jesus, NO OTHER ONE.

[MAC]

What does the whole counsel of the word of God tells us if baptism is a requirement for Salvation or it just in Acts that it is confirm. Are not we cleans first from within and then the fruit of the Spirit is shown in us that we are the sons of God? Or do we get baptize first and after the change of heart comes! Is it not God the One that worketh and leadeth thee to repentance in you in order for you to have a new heart, where does the physical water pour upon you make your heart whole?

[cindylou]

I'm a christian, I don't believe we are born with the original sins or Adam , the bible says that we are sinful b/c of our desires and choices for not obeying God and that is why we need to get saved. He also gives us five steps (you will find the steps in the bible, in different places) that we take to get get saved and one is confessing your sins, "confessing your sins, not Adam and Eve's."



Because we have a nature to do our own desires is why we sin, just like Adam and Eve who made their choice, we also sometimes make the wrong choices that is why we are sinful.
This is a very interesting topic to me especially since this is the day the Church celebrates the Baptism of the Lord..the official end to the Christmas season. Both the Catholic and Orthodox Church teach that water Baptism is necessary for salvation. This is taught for two reasons: 1) to free us from original sin and 2) to join us in body to the Church. Our reasons for Baptism are not the same as Jesus's reason's for Baptism, but I will try to explain that later.... Early in the history of the Church, a monk named Pelagius challenged the common belief and Churches teaching about original sin...he taught that we did not suffer from "original sin" but that, as daydreamer put it, our desires and choices kept us from salvation. Therefore, he concluded, that one could "work" his way into heaven and it did not require any belief or faith. Thankfully St. Augustine was able to nip this teaching in the bud and the Church recovered. However, the idea still floated around just waiting for the right time and circumstances to re-emerge. Martin Luther jumped on it with all his weight...Protestantism began to water down the sacraments one by one using some very interesting and involved debate. Baptism eventually became "symbolic" and not a "requirement". For many of the "newer" Protestant religions it has become "optional". What this means for Protestants is simple...THEY make the decision in their heart to become a Christian, but they do not think they need any outward sign of that. For them, Baptism is an outward sign. Mainstream Protestants, i.e. Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist etc. baptise infants as a "symbol". The Ana-baptists took this a step farther saying that babies couldn't possibly "accept" Christ so everyone had to be re-baptised or save baptism until adult hood. Now, there are quite a few Evangelical Churches that do not routinely baptize anyone.

The Catholic Church recognizes three "kinds" of baptism: water, desire and blood. Water baptism has always been taught by the Church as it was administered by the Apostles. Not only is the scripture clear about this, but the Didache gives explicit instruction on the necessity of baptism and how it must be performed and by whom. This is the baptism done "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." We can rightly assume that when the Apostles baptised "whole households" that children were included. Baptism by blood means that a person died for faith BEFORE baptism. This would include all those who have died believing in Christ, were martyred because of their beliefs, but never had the opportunity to be baptised. There are also people who desire baptism but die before receiving it as well as those who would explicitly desire baptism IF they knew it was NECESSARY.

Is our baptism, then, like Jesus's Baptism? Not exactly. Foremost, Jesus did not have to be free from original sin..he was perfect!!! Why then, would he allow John to baptise him? Simple, because the Father commanded it. He was obeying His Father. He humbled himself and became baptised. He set the stage for us. Jesus santified baptism. When are baptised we become one with Christ..we follow his example.

It's clear that the Apostle's were commanded by Christ to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We know from our early writings that Baptism was administered to EVERY Christian. It was only after the reformation that Baptism was not considered by Protestants as a sacrament, necessary for salvation. No matter how many scripture references we post here, someone will always find another way to "interpret" it. That, too, is a by-product of the reformation. But no matter how someone "interprets" scripture, what Jesus did, said and instituted is what counts. The Apostle's believed that Baptism was necessary, it was so important that they often administered it first and to whole households, servants and all. They passed that on to the believers who followed them, etc. The Church has always taught the necessity of baptism. Are we to think then the Church was wrong?

[daydreamergurl15]

You know Mac, I can argue to my face is blue and we would be debating forever. I got baptized and I know I'm right with the Lord, I listen to what the scripture says. You can reply if you want but I won't be replying b/c i feel this will keep going on and on. The Lord has baptism in the scripture, He says to be baptize remission of sins and I have. I don't always understand why God say the things hesays and does the things he do but I believe in him and his words so I do them. If he tells me to be baptize in the remission of my sins then I'm gonna do it. No matter what.

But I'm just gonna stop replying to this, it really isn't helping if we through scriptures at each other and then get no where.

-God Bless.

[MarieAnn]

Konnie,if that is true how was the Thief on the Cross saved since he wasnt baptized in water
Says who?

[MAC]

You know Mac, I can argue to my face is blue and we would be debating forever. I got baptized and I know I'm right with the Lord, I listen to what the scripture says. You can reply if you want but I won't be replying b/c i feel this will keep going on and on. The Lord has baptism in the scripture, He says to be baptize remission of sins and I have. I don't always understand why God say the things hesays and does the things he do but I believe in him and his words so I do them. If he tells me to be baptize in the remission of my sins then I'm gonna do it. No matter what.

But I'm just gonna stop replying to this, it really isn't helping if we through scriptures at each other and then get no where.

-God Bless.
That is fine my broyher in Christ, it is well unto thee and good for I can judge that if that is the desiere you have, I also wont tell anyone dont get baptise but in my understand of the word of God it is not what is getting you saved but what Christ did in calvary if we are going to follow everithing that Christ have idicated us in His word there would be alot of people without and eye,hand and giving up your left cheek.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.

[Sweetbriar]

:wave: I was baptized but I don't believe you have to be baptized to be saved. If it's so important that all believers be baptized it seems there would be a whole lot more emphasis about it in the gospels which there really isn't except in Matthew and even then in comparison to other doctrine it still isn't a whole lot. I think it's interesting that in Acts 10: ver 44 the Holy Spirit came to all who heard the message FIRST and then they were baptized. In the gospel of John Jesus' baptism is not specifically said. All that is said is that John saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. If you check in Luke the Holy Spirit did not come down on Jesus when he was baptized but later when he was praying. Don't you think if baptism is as important as the churches make it today that more would have been said about it in the Bible? I don't believe that Jesus ever said we must be baptized. This came from Paul. The argument that we must be baptized to wash away sin doesn't sit with me b/c as one poster already pointed out Jesus was baptized but he was without sin. He didn't need to be baptized to join a church as many today do. So why was He baptized? Makes you think doesn't it?

The one thing I emphatically agree with is that Jesus is who saves me..not being baptized. I personally like the idea of baptism but I don't think it's worth arguing about for salvation or in the method of how it's done. I think that the church is the one who has brought a lot of baggage along regarding baptism which causes division among believers.

[cindylou]

:wave: I don't believe that Jesus ever said we must be baptized. This came from Paul.
Actually, Jesus did say this, in the Gospels.


The argument that we must be baptized to wash away sin doesn't sit with me b/c as one poster already pointed out Jesus was baptized but he was without sin. He didn't need to be baptized to join a church as many today do. So why was He baptized? Makes you think doesn't it?


I said Jesus's Baptism was DIFFERENT. He was baptised because His Father commanded it. He was obedient and humble. Jesus santified Baptism for us. If Jesus did it and didn't "have to", does that somehow negate Baptism for everyone else? No way. We are called to be obedient just the same. "Behold this is my Son with whom I am well pleased."

[MAC]

Baptism and the Lord's Supper are the two symbolical ordinances of the New Testament. The Supper represents the work of Christ, and Baptism the work of the Spirit. As in the Supper a small amount of bread and wine used in this ordinance exhibits in symbol the great work of Christ, so in Baptism the work of the Holy Spirit is fully seen in the water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

[Snowy]

I'm not sure....I believe you have to be saved though

[Sweetbriar]

Would you please tell me where in the gospels Jesus said we must be baptized? Are you referring to Matthew's gospel where he says it's to fulfil righteousness? Then why isn't this indicated that he said this in the other gospels? I'm not trying to start an argument only pointing out why this issue has always been a great theological debate. It's almost like Mark Luke & John simply skirted the issue b/c so little is really said about it. Then it makes the reader question and wonder why they chose not to talk about it more.

I've got to tell you I only believe in the inerrancy of the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't take the Bible to be completely and totally inerrant although inspired. That of course will cause many differences of opinions with believers who feel it is totally inerrant of which I try to be respectful of no matter what beliefs I hold. Just mentioned this so some of you posters will understand where I'm coming from and why we may be holding differences in opinions on this topic.

[cindylou]

Would you please tell me where in the gospels Jesus said we must be baptized?
Matt 28:18-20 "Jesus came up and spoke to them. He said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teach them to observe all the commands I gave you. And look, I am with you always; yes, to the end of time.'"

Mark 16: 15-16 "And he {Jesus} said to them, 'Go out to the whole world; proclaim the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."




I've got to tell you I only believe in the inerrancy of the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't take the Bible to be completely and totally inerrant although inspired. That of course will cause many differences of opinions with believers who feel it is totally inerrant of which I try to be respectful of no matter what beliefs I hold. Just mentioned this so some of you posters will understand where I'm coming from and why we may be holding differences in opinions on this topic.
And I have to tell you, I don't normally quote scripture because I do not adhere to Sola Scriptura. But you asked where in the Scripture did Jesus say to baptise. I would like to add that throughout Acts, we can see the Apostles baptising people in water. But far more than that, the Didache gives us an account of how baptism should be performed and by whom. I claim that the Apostles firmly believed that Jesus had commanded them to baptise all people, including children, in water. Because of that Tradition and because it is clearly found in scripture, the Church has always baptised in water and has always held that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Personal opinion, in this case, matters not. What matters is that we are following the commands of Christ.

[thinbo]

The thief on the cross was dead in his sins according to the old covenant, he was saved by being forgiven and accepted by Jesus. The same is true today. Water is powerless, I get baptised every morning (in the shower).

Do we even understand what John was doing going round baptising people?

Is John's Baptism symbolic? perhaps it cleansed folk from 'original sin', bit hard to see why Jesus should then die. If it didn't cleanse from 'original sin' then what sin did it cleanse from? (note: original sin is not a phrase that appears in the bible, the idea is that adam introduced the first sin into the world, i.e. the fall, we only need forgiveness for the sins we commit, though we are affected by the sins others have commited)

John's baptism was either symbolic or it wasn't.

We get so caught up in formulas. It's interesting that when the rich young ruler asked Jesus how to get saved, Jesus came out with some highly unorthodox advice, that involved neither baptism or faith in his name. Wonder what would have happened to the man if he had took Jesus' advice. Ahh that was an old covenant, you say, what on earth was Jesus doing teaching an old covenant, (we could at least expect him to footnote it with something like, "Best Before 33AD").

There is good enough reason to be baptised, i've been baptised twice myself, once as an infant, once as a Spirit-filled adult.

The symbolism is in the new testament, the idea of putting off the old life, being crucified with Christ, to be raised up into new life.

Ironically, the thief on the cross had the best baptism you could wish for, he literally was crucified with Christ.

I'm all for baptism, but dogma is just plain stupid.

[thinbo]

What the thief did, was to cast himself on the mercy of his King. Folks, that's ALL we ever need to do. The importance of baptism is that it points to a deeper spiritual reality, that reality is, that in order to come alive to Christ, we need to die to self.

It's an outward manifestation of an inward reality. Without the inward reality, the outward manifestation is meaningless. We simply remain trapped in our sinful nature.

If we are to be any use in the Kingdom of God we need to die to our selves daily. To pick up our crosses as we walk through this life.

Baptism is a reminder, it can act as an initiation, but it is never a replacement. 'WE' are saved simply by faith, but we are of no use, unless we are willing to put all else behind us.

[Sweetbriar]

Some good points here. But I don't believe we are saved by faith b/c what happens when you lose your faith or when it is shaken? We are saved by Christ. Christ alone. The faith we have is given to us by God.

Thanks for the scripture references Cindylou. I'm going to look at this more closely. You have me momentarily stymied here. lol I love a good discussion especially when it makes me dig.

[thinbo]

Faith is one of those things that can often be shaken, (sometimes for years). I've never come across anyone, who ever had it, that has truly lost it. It's like a plant that can wither in the darkness but never truly die. In the end it comes back stronger than before. Because even though it may seem to die within you, God remains faithful. He really is the hound of heaven. He will pursue you with his love, to the ends of the earth. I know this first hand. Once you find the LOVE of God, there is no escaping it, it will track you down, without rest, until it finds you.

[Sweetbriar]

I 've read over the scriptures in Matthew and Mark and these are my thoughts. They are commands but there is a difference between commands and losing one's salvation. The text in Mark says whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe...(only not believe) will be condemned. This shows that baptism alone will not save you.

Also the earliest manuscripts of Mark ended with verse 8 of Chapter 16 and most Bibles have this indicated somewhere in the text so Mark 16:15 through 18 was added later and no doubt by the church.

I believe we are saved through grace through Christ and given faith from God to be obedient to the commands such as the ones pointed out in Matthew and Mark. We do these things out of a heart of gratitude, not out of a means to be saved.

So I do believe in baptism but I don't believe that one is not saved, is not a believer if they don't.

I'd like to add that what I believe is not just based on my opinion b/c I don't believe in the inerrancy of scripture. I think it's important to understand that many people believe the Bible is inspired but in human hands who may be influenced by their own imperfections and beliefs that can be colored. For example in Matthew it's obvious about his Jewish roots. You can see it in his writings. There's a big jump from what Matthew writes about and the tone to Pauls' grace shown so beautifully in Romans. I have found that when I have read the Bible on the surface alone many things which I thought were clear were definitely muddied when I began studying with a true theologian familiar with Greek. I in no way feel that I am an expert but I've reached a point in my life where I'm very leery of interpretation by laypeople myself included. :confused: :D But it's fun to discuss and learn from each other to challenge our thinking and understand what we believe and why.

Also to the poster above me very good points on faith. :clap:

[thinbo]

*Man, this is so off thread, but the more i think about the times I have run from God, the times I have shaken my fists at Him and I think about how deeply I have lost my faith, and how in return, he has just lavished his love on me. Honestly, it just turns me into a pile of snot, I'm so in danger of messing up my keyboard*

God really is so good, it's such a cliche, but it's so true. So many people spend their whole lives running from Him, but in the end he tracks them down. Cos GOD REALLY IS LOVE, overwhelming love. The love of our God really is a consuming fire. It is invincible.

[shapu]

It's interesting - as I had pointed out waaaay back on page one, this is a debate very much similar to one found in Islam: Whether or not to eat dates.

The Quran, as a book, is a book of rules and regulations - it's all written in the first person commands, because it is a book of God's words to the Prophet Muhammed. For the moment, please allow your beliefs on Muhammed's legitimacy to rest for a moment.

Muhammed's life as a prophet is detailed in another book, called the Hadith (literally: "Deeds"). In the Hadith, Muhammed is shown to be eating dates. All the time with the dates, and the what not. For the last 1400 years, Muslims have been asking themselves, "Should I eat dates? Will it help to bring me closer to Allah? Will it bring me closer to Muhammed?" Sometimes, the answer is yes, and sometimes the answer is no. It's actually a very lively debate, with many prominent intellectuals on each side.

Now, I presume that none of you are Muslim, so here we go: As outsiders, what do you feel about this debate? Simply because Muhammed ate dates, should observant Muslims do the same?

It's a rhetorical question, so don't answer it here, but it has a very strong parallel in the question of baptism. If the answer for one is yes (or no), then shouldn't the answer for the other be the same? Or is there a grey area? Is it left up to the person?

I, for one, will not be baptized simply because Christ was...that seems to be a silly reason to me, and I don't want to try to be Christ. For one thing, I don't have any intentions of running into any Romans with chips on their shoulders and nails in their hands any time soon.

Now, am I going to Hell simply because I'm not baptized? I don't know. But I will point out the same verse that I pointed out before, even though I hate calling on scripture outside of context:


I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

My belief in Christ as Messiah is my baptism, so says the Baptist.

[thomas the tank engine]

I'm trying to decide whether or not to get baptised (sorry about the spelling, I'm a Brit!) at the moment, as I have come to Christianity only recently. My conclusion so far is I'll get baptised when it feels like the right thing to do - at the moment I don't feel like I've dedicated myself to God enough to get baptised. I guess I'm looking at it as a commitment of sorts.

[Droobie]

*sheepish grin*... Yeah, I should be spelling it with an 's' too, being Australian and all. There are some who would argue that baptism and salvation go hand in hand. Once you've accepted Christ, what more of your life is there to dedicate?

[billiefan2000]

I 've read over the scriptures in Matthew and Mark and these are my thoughts. They are commands but there is a difference between commands and losing one's salvation. The text in Mark says whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe...(only not believe) will be condemned. This shows that baptism alone will not save you.

Also the earliest manuscripts of Mark ended with verse 8 of Chapter 16 and most Bibles have this indicated somewhere in the text so Mark 16:15 through 18 was added later and no doubt by the church.

I believe we are saved through grace through Christ and given faith from God to be obedient to the commands such as the ones pointed out in Matthew and Mark. We do these things out of a heart of gratitude, not out of a means to be saved.

So I do believe in baptism but I don't believe that one is not saved, is not a believer if they don't.

I'd like to add that what I believe is not just based on my opinion b/c I don't believe in the inerrancy of scripture. I think it's important to understand that many people believe the Bible is inspired but in human hands who may be influenced by their own imperfections and beliefs that can be colored. For example in Matthew it's obvious about his Jewish roots. You can see it in his writings. There's a big jump from what Matthew writes about and the tone to Pauls' grace shown so beautifully in Romans. I have found that when I have read the Bible on the surface alone many things which I thought were clear were definitely muddied when I began studying with a true theologian familiar with Greek. I in no way feel that I am an expert but I've reached a point in my life where I'm very leery of interpretation by laypeople myself included. :confused: :D But it's fun to discuss and learn from each other to challenge our thinking and understand what we believe and why.

Also to the poster above me very good points on faith. :clap:


If that is true,why do some Christian Churches believe you must be dunked in water in order to enter Heaven then?

[thinbo]

Been thinkin, the one (and only reason) for baptism is because Jesus, instructed the disciples 'to go make disciples of all men baptising them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit'. and that's it.

Any speculation beyond that, is precisely that, speculation, it's always pointless speculating. Better to simply obey.

In all this talk about linking salvation to baptism, I can't help thinking about Jesus' words about the sabbath. As I remember, the pharisees saw Jesus' disciples picking ears of corn on the sabbath and challenged Jesus about it. His response 'the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath', seems to fit equally well with ideas about baptism, i.e. baptism is made for man, not man for baptism.

Anyway take it or leave it.

God Bless

[Sweetbriar]

I agree with Thimbo's last post on this matter. The Great Commission command was really to teach people.."go and make disciples". If you want to get picky you could say the command regarding baptism was how to baptize. How? In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If you look in Acts some were only baptizing in the name of Jesus. I'd rather not be picky. :D

Why do some churches think you can't get to heaven unless immersed. I don't know. It's isn't the immersing or the sprinkling that are the key. It's what it signifiies. I personally believe baptism is more about saying you are God's. Not about saying I decided.. b/c when you get into the I decided to get baptized to be saved ...then your salvation rests on your decision ..when it should only rest on what Christ did. The focus should always be on Christ.

[The-Doctor]

The vicar interestingly had a point on this in the sermon this week. Some do it with water others with blessed oil from the Bishop. But Jesus was batized in the Holy Spirit.

I think it is symbolic....by being baptized we are washing away our sins of the past and starting a new life in God's eyes.

[cindylou]

Frankly, it doesn't matter what we "think" or "feel" about Baptism. The Apostle's believed Christ when he told them to "Baptize all nations." The scripture is clear that they did such. We also know from the Didache that the Apostles administered water Baptism and had specific instructions on how to do so. We can also read from very early writings of St. Clement and Tertullian that Baptism WAS considered necessary for salvation. Yes, it is true that some argued that it was not, but the Church agreed that it was, and Baptism has continued to be considered NECESSARY for salvation by the Church. I would be glad to give references from the above mentioned texts if necessary.

[yayson]

it certainly doesn't hurt ;)

I believe the Bible can be interpreted either way, depending on the angle you're looking from.

My angle comes from the Words related to:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

I could put up many scriptures that supported faith alone, I've read through many in this thread that people have posted that mention baptism as being a requirement for salvation (which I would not interpret in the way the posters have at all).

I could post many scriptures pertaining to the confidence that the Pharisees, new Christians, Hebrews, men, placed in things such as circumcision, sacrifice, cleansings, washings etc, and many instances of them being scolded for doing so.

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. Romans 4:8-10

which is referring to Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Men have always made judgements by deeds, as well they should, with the guidance of the Spirit, but God can see more than men, more than deeds, more than any ceremony or tradition or even inconvenience to us (which I don't think baptism is at all, done in church among friends and supporters).

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7

By all means, GET BAPTIZED! The Lord Himself did it! It offends other brothers if you don't! It's a visible display of your faith! It certainly doesn't hurt anything now does it?

However, I see no Biblical evidence that God uses baptism as a measuring stick when passing eternal judgement.

[Sweetbriar]

Well put Yayson.

[Vxer1000]

There is no way around baptism. The commission was given after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If anyone is going to dispute the fact that baptism is necessary for salvation you need to come up with some chapter and verse proof instead of "I don't feel it is necessary". When people don't use the bible to define salvation that is the kind of teaching that leads people astray and that is not a good thing.



Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



John 3.1-7 talks about being born again of water and the spirit. You must have both. It is certainly within the ability of most people to perform the act of baptism. And if someone is physically incapable of doing it or on their deathbed it has always been my experience that if the individual was willing God would make a way for it to happen. That is why people have no excuse for skirting the issue. They forget the power of God and lean on their own ability to determine their actions when there is nothing that is impossible for God. My father was on his deathbed and God healed him long enough and well enough to get baptized in Jesus' name. He died about 8 months later, long enough to hold my firstborn child in his arms. Two hours later he went under on morphine and never woke up.


Mark 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ******.


The reason it only says "he that believeth not" is because if someone willingly doesn't get baptized it shows they don't believe. Salvation is not a grey area. It is very cut and dry to the point that it could almost be taught from a secular point of view because the bible gives rather explicit instructions on the subject.


1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.



Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Although baptism in water is a physical act in is indicative of a spiritual thought process. This is where your faith and belief in the life, crucifixion and resurrection of Christ are put into action thus completing the cycle of faith. It is a Christians spiritual birth.

[thinbo]

"When people don't use the bible to define salvation that is the kind of teaching that leads people astray and that is not a good thing."

Vxer: I think there are two things to point out here

1. people.
2. using the bible to define.

1. people - people are frail, our understanding is always limited, even Paul acknowledged limitations to his understanding.

2. using the bible to define - any use of the bible requires interpretation, few people are arguing to reject the bible as the prime source for understanding, You seem clear in Your interpretation and understanding, as You (or those You look too) define it.

The thing that leads people astray is not 'unclearly defined teaching about salvation'. The thing that leads people astray is 'clearly defined teaching'. Those organisations generally called cults, excel at 'clearly defined teaching' especially about salvation, they are often quite capable of using the bible to 'confirm' their teachings.

The bible is a great gift, that is capable of teaching and correcting the Christian in his walk, some things are easier to interpret than others, ultimately the New Testament tells us that the Holy Spirit is the one responsible for guiding and teaching us, without doubt his favourite tool is the bible, and it is ultimately to Him that we must turn when seeking to interpret it.

[Oblivious]

leesw's post (and others) pretty much summed it up - Water baptism is necessary for the remissions of sins, as the Bible states numerous times :)

[yayson]

Firstly lets get some unpleasantry out of he way. you say, in reply to my post:

If anyone is going to dispute the fact that baptism is necessary for salvation you need to come up with some chapter and verse proof instead of "I don't feel it is necessary"

I took your quotation marks as quoting me. If you were, you've born false witness brother. If it was a generalization, you completely misinterpreted my post.

I posted scripture to support my understanding and my point of view. I also conceded that I could easily see how it could be interpreted your way, depending on the point of reference.

In the Greek baptizo, bapto, the words that the original texts that you reference can be taken literally (immersed in water), or figuratively (immersion in Christ, death to the world), as well as hudor (water) can be taken as water, or liquid, blood. If taken figuratively as the original language allows, you can say that baptism is immersion in the blood of Christ for the remission of sins.

That said, they were dunking people left and right, even Jesus did so and now I must testify to my own salvation.

I was "saved and baptized" when I was 10 or 11 after a minister came to my house and explained everything to me and I of course said OK to every question he asked, I was just a kid after all. the next 10 years of my life roughly, were spent pursuing flesh. Drugs, drink, all the things the world has to offer. Then at 23 I saw the pain I was causing people I loved, I felt compelled to read the Bible and work out my salvation and alone in a room reading instead of drinking, I accepted the gift of salvation for real. At that moment of surrender I was immersed in Jesus, my life changed in that instant.

After I got back into a church to help me grow as I knew I needed to from reading the Bible, I always *felt* that I should be baptised again as the first time was meaningless in actual fact. I read the Bible and felt compelled to be baptized, in front of my local congregation as an act of humility, subserviance, and testimony. I could not see how being baptized would do anything but bring glory to God.

I still feel that way. I feel every believer should be baptized. I just don't think, based on scripture, that it used by God as a measurement of faith. The overwhleming scriptural evidence regarding God's eternal judgement point to the condition of the heart. The heart tells if a man is immersed in Christ, or the world. Even the scripture you quoted, 1 Peter 3:21, the part in parenthesis, right after your bold text, is interpreted by me to mean that the emphasis is on a pure heart and not clean skin.

I completely respect those that think baptism is a requirement if, like you've demonstrated you have, if they have searched the scriptures for their answer. I can definitely see how you've arrived at your conclusion (as I allueded to in my initial post). BUT, I think that when you combine the openness of the words' meanings, combined with the scripture supporting God's judgement that looks on the heart of a man, combined with the condemnation of men that put their faith in their own piety and works, then I at least come to a different understanding in the end.

Vxer1000, bless you for sharing the Word with us!

[thinbo]

*Is tempted to say yayson's post pretty much summed it up* What do I know? I'm just a fool. A site worth visiting - http://www.carm.org/oneness/onenessbaptism.htm

[thinbo]

I should let this simply settle into obscurity, superficially this is about baptism and salvation, but the truth is it is really about the same thing so many of these discussions are about, LEGALISM.

If those verses quoted were all that the bible contained I would be forced to agree that on balance the simplest explanation of them is that baptism is required for salvation.

There are so many ways to attack this legalistic assertion, it is hard to choose one.

It invites a legalistic attack, but this would just cause me to be guilty of the same thing, and besides I'm not good at legalistic attacks.

I tell you the truth that if this assertion were true then so many things would not be. Jesus himself would have to say that the two great commandments are actually, 'repent' and 'be baptised', because they form the basis of this new legalism.

This whole thing stinks of phariseeism (if there is such a word). It is dangerous not because it encourages baptism or honours the bible, such things are never dangerous. It's dangerous because it shifts the focus of faith, faith in the Son of God becomes faith in ritualism.

I urge you to reject this idea wholeheartedly and absolutely, place your faith in Christ alone, not in rituals, no matter how valid they may be.

Yayson was gentle in his arguing. To those who say that baptism is a requirement for salvation I will be as gentle as Paul was to the circumcisers when he said he wished they would go the whole way.

If your faith in ritualism is so strong I encourage you to take it the whole way, submerge one another for at least three days then promptly ressurect yourselves. I say this with some fear, because I am not certain your foolishness would not lead you to attempt such things.

[Joj]

"If Jesus felt He needed to be baptised with water then shouldn't we?"

He did it to fulfill all rightousness. We can't do that.

[Joj]

Can anyone show me from the scriptures how this required baptism is to be administered? You know, are we supposed to be just sprinkled, completely submerged, dipped, or what.

And when are we supposed to submit to this thing? In infancy, at the age of accountablity, when we are willing to submit to God? I can't seem to get a straight answer from others (that makes sense) that I have asked.

I know there are plenty of opinions, but they are just like noses, everyone has one. Please show me from scripture the answers to how baptism is to be administered.

His by grace..........Joj

[Joj]

Just what I thought. Lots of believers in baptism, but none that can scripturaly show when or how.

[Joj]

Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump.

C'mon all you water ritual defenders. What gives?

[Cozmo]

Matthew 3:16 Amplified

16 And when Jesus was baptized, He went up at once out of the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he [John] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on Him.

This would imply that Jesus was submerged under water to be baptized. In my opinion, I would do as Jesus would and be submerged.

:angel:

[caillan]

My understanding is that only baptism of the Spirit is required for salvation, by faith alone (Acts 16:31); no-one has ever been saved by good works or adherence to rituals. Baptism by water is a statement of faith and I think you would want to make this statement after having been saved.

If someone lives his life doubting his salvation because he's not performed a ritual I believe he'll never gain the intense and rewarding relationship with Christ that we all long for. I can see the changes He's beginning to effect in my life, and I have yet to be baptised...isn't He truly amazing?!!

God Bless.

[mrversatile48]

Acts 2:37b/39 - "Brothers, what shall we do?"

Peter replied, "Repent & be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you & your children & for all who are afar off - for all whom the Lord will call"

Many testify to special anointing being God's desire upon that public testimony to faith

"

[orthotomeo]

There are 12 distinct baptisms in Scripture.

Less than half of them involve water or someone getting wet.

How many of these 12 do you believe apply to you today? And why?

For myself, there was only one baptism, and that one involved no water. The other 11 have nothing to do with me.

Over to y'all,

o.

[TLC8268]

Yes, baptism is required.

Acts 2:38

[Joj]

He went up at once out of the water

When was the last ime you saw a river you could walk down out of? Every river I have seen is in the BOTTOM of a river valley. This passage merely say He came up OUT OF the water, AFTER He had been Baptised. Not up from the water baptised.
Try again?

[WanderingMagi]

'Whosoever believeth in me'

WanderingMagi

[WanderingMagi]

'Whosoever believeth in me'


I have to point out those who do believe will get baptized if they can, though.

WanderingMagi

[Cozmo]

He went up at once out of the water

When was the last ime you saw a river you could walk down out of? Every river I have seen is in the BOTTOM of a river valley. This passage merely say He came up OUT OF the water, AFTER He had been Baptised. Not up from the water baptised.
Try again?

Mathew 3:16

And when Jesus was baptized
Greek Baptizo:
Definition:
to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm

He went up
Greek Anabaino:
Definition:
ascend
to go up
to rise, mount, be borne up, spring up

at once out
Greek Ekporeuomai:
Definition:
to go forth, go out, depart
metaph.
to come forth, to issue, to proceed
to flow forth
of a river
to project, from the mouth of one
to spread abroad, of a rumour

of
Greek Apo:
Definition:
of separation
of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
of separation of a part from the whole
where of a whole some part is taken
of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
of a state of separation, that is of distance
physical, of distance of place
temporal, of distance of time
of origin
of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
of origin of a cause

the water
Greek Hudor:
Definition:
water
of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
of the water of the deluge
of water in any of the earth's repositories
of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
of the waves of the sea

I don't think I could do much more to explain to you what this passage means without actually putting my own words mixed in there, and I'd rather not do that. I merely tried to illustrate better why I believe it to be exactly what it says. :angel:

[Joj]

Hmmmmm

I believe the passage says He came up out FROM the water. From the definition, I can see where this could be applied several ways. Perhaps you can give me an example where it is CLEAR which method this is to be applied.

You know as well as I (I think) that God, when He wanted something important done, gave very specific instructions on just how He wanted it done. The last chapters of Exodus and in Leviticus shows many great examples of this. Find me one just *nearly* as clear as one of those instructions for Israel for us and water baptism.

His.....Joj

[Cozmo]

I believe the passage says He came up out FROM the water. From the definition, I can see where this could be applied several ways. Perhaps you can give me an example where it is CLEAR which method this is to be applied.


Only a couple translations use the word FROM in that verse. I don't see what could be more clearer than doing as Jesus did, since we are to be Christ-like and we are commanded to do likewise. Perhaps, He's not being picky on how it's done but rather that it is done, though it's very clear it's not done by sprinkling. It's honestly, something I've never sought God for an explanation or a better definition of.

I will tell you that every single instance of the word baptize, baptized, baptizest, baptizeth or baptizing comes from the Greek word baptizo, which is also a derivative of the Greek word bapto, which means the following:

The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.

When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle!

I do believe that if it is that important to you, you should seek the answer from God and quietly listen to his voice. I praise God in the fact that you are diligently making sure that what you know and are told is precisely what He intends for us to know and do. God bless :angel:

[amberrose]

Baptism SIGNIFIES repentance Matt3:11

All followers of Jesus should be baptised Matt 28:19

Ephetions 2:8-9 make it quite clear that we are saved by faith alone...baptism is a work..to be baptised shows that we have excpeted the new Covenant that Christ made on the cross and even though it is not required for salvation it is require of us as we were commanded to be baptised by Christ himself.

Just my twopence worth. :cool:

[orthotomeo]

May I ask a question?

Paul says in Ephesians 4:5 that there is "one baptism."

He tells us in Romans 6:3, 1 Cor 12:13 and Colossians 2:12 what this baptism is (baptism by the Spirit into the Body of Christ). This baptism is a divine operation that takes place without water (see 1 Cor 1:17).

Question: if there is "one baptism" for the Body of Christ (that's us), how many baptisms do you get when you add a water ritual to that "one baptism"?

1 + 1 = __ ?

o

[TedMorgan3]

I was baptised by immersion when I was eleven. I asked my pastor to do it again a few weeks ago (I am now sixty). I wanted to do that as a symbol of my faith.

[orthotomeo]

I invite anyone reading this thread to examine a brief article,
"Water Baptism Put To the Berean Test."

http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/adelaidegrace/beranbap.htm

I look forward to hearing any comments you have on it.

o.

[Sweetbriar]

I thought it was a great article.

[yayson]

the article was good, what I read of it.

I'd recommend anyone trying to read that, crtl+a to select all, ctrl+c to copy it, open Notepad or Word or something and ctrl+v to paste. Read from there, take it easy on your eyes :eek:

[GraceReborn]

Baptism SIGNIFIES repentance Matt3:11

All followers of Jesus should be baptised Matt 28:19

Ephetions 2:8-9 make it quite clear that we are saved by faith alone...baptism is a work..to be baptised shows that we have excpeted the new Covenant that Christ made on the cross and even though it is not required for salvation it is require of us as we were commanded to be baptised by Christ himself.

Just my twopence worth. :cool:

Perfect! My thoughts exactly. I have been Saved and look forward to getting Baptised very soon.

[yayson]

I have been Saved and look forward to getting Baptised very soon


Recently? Newbie saved you mean? W00t! Hey hey! Congratulations man, the angels rejoice and so do I. There ain't a smilie big enough =D

Everyone agrees! Baptism good. Now I wanna know... Why don't we party when someone comes to a saving relationship? Now there's one for chit chat...

[GraceReborn]

Thank you for your thoughts Yayson. :)

[GraceReborn]

Aberrose and Yayson you have my Blessings... just figured out how to do it. God bless both of ya.

[Epiphany]

Is water baptizm required as part of our salvation or not?
To Life Immortal

Baptism isn't required for salvation. I think to be a Christian, you just have to believe that Lord Jesus rose from the dead and confess that He is Lord.

Baptism is required to join the church. In my church, Baptism is a Mystery (sacrament). We baptise by triple immersion in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Right after baptism, you are chrismated so you can receive the Holy Spirit. You have to be baptised and chrismated to receive Communion, which is the Real Presence of Lord Jesus.

Hope that helps :)

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Epiphany ~*~

[FBI78]

I believe that the water baptism is a must because it shows everyone in what we believe in.

[billiefan2000]

What about Acts 4:12 where it tells us that there is no Salvation in no other ONE not water but in no other One.

I agree

[Flighty Mouse]

I don't think water baptism is necessary "because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9) :clap:

[Filia Mariae]

Baptism is required for salvation. In certain cases, baptism of desire or blood suffices, but in all but a few exceptions, water baptism is necessary.

1 Pet. 3:21; Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:3–4, Col. 2:11–12

[kstam]

First, the Bible NEVER says not getting baptized will not be saved.

However if a person claimed to be a Christian but not willing to get baptized, I would say that he is not saved. James 2:24 "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." Baptism is the first deed a believer must take. If a person is not willing to take this simple step to put himself under God, how can he be saved?

I understand that there are situations that prohibit baptism, such as the thief on the cross. These are the exceptions and God surely understands why. Yes, they will be saved if they truly believe in Him.

For those who have a chance to get baptized, and yet not willing to do it, I seriously doubt that they are saved.

[Godzman]

Baptism is symbolic of salvation

[MYMOM]

THIEF ON THE CROSS WASN'T ETIOPIAN EUNUCH DEMANDED IT.

[Glorianna]

Baptism is not required for salvation, but it is essential in order to proclaim your faith and to publicly declare that you are a believer.

[jeffs_girl_2004]

Yes!

[TasManOfGod]

Water baptism (the baptism of John) is and always has been the baptism of repentance. It is useful today to proceed salvation (Baptism into Christ) as much of the sin of the flesh can be cleaned by it as we draw close to God (the Father)
For completeness we may decide that we would like to be endued with power to do the works of Christ so we become baptised in the Holy Spirit.
We thereby become complete in our association with a triune God having thus been baptised in the name of the Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

blessing
Tas

[mle]

I'm not sure

[Faithful83]

The theif on the cross died before Jesus did.
Wrong. Jesus was the first out of the three to die. When the soldiers came to break the legs of the victims they did it to hasten death. Notice that they broke the legs of the two thieves (because they were still alive and death needed to be hastened), but when they got to Jesus they found he had already died so they speared him instead.

That said, I believe that it is important and I hope to be as soon as I can.

BUT

I don't think it's required to be saved. Here is why.

1. What if the person was sick or had a disability, then they became a Christian but their illness or disability made it unsafe for them to be immersed (since in the Bible immersion is the only type of baptism)? And they died with that illness or disability making baptism unsafe? Would God take them by the hair and say "Look down there. See that pit with the fire in it? Well you, due to medical reasons, didn't get baptized so tough bananas!!!!"? I don't think God would do that, because He is a just God.

2. What about a person who gets murdered or dies in an accident on the way to be baptized? Will God grab them by the hair and say "See that pit with the fire in it? Well, unfortunately you died on the way to getting baptized so tough bananas!!!!"? Again, I highly doubt God would do that.

3. Although it is obviously commanded to get baptized to let people know you're a Christian, it can't be required for salvation because what is required for salvation is trusting what Jesus did on the cross. What did Jesus say just before dying? "It is finished." Meaning that our sins had been paid for. It is only by his horrible death that we are saved. If baptism were required for salvation, then all the pain, torment, and suffering Jesus WILLINGLY went through at Calvary would have been a waste of time.

[Roxa]

To be saved we do not need to be water baptised, but we should be anyway.

[jeshohaia]

My cats have all had to be baptised, when I was a kid, to be saved. Does that mean we have to? ;)

[GlowingFirefly]

My church believes that baptism is nesesary for salvation. And so do I. :)

[Niko]

it "initiates" you into the church. WIthout it, your not a christian. THe thief that died next to Jesus wasnt baptised, but was about to die; a few extraordinary factors that need to be thought about.

[Mikel252]

No, there is no water baptism required. The Bible's pretty clear on this. The water baptism is like a wedding ring on your finger. The ring does not make you married, but indicates what has occurred. The water baptism is an outward expression of being baptized in the Spirit (literally immersed in the Spirit) which occurs when you acknowledge your inability to save yourself from your sinful state and accept by faith Jesus' work on the cross.

As said before, the thief on the cross was told Jesus would see him in Paradise. If water baptism was required, Jesus could not have said that.

[PaladinValer]

The Bible specifically states, as others have pointed out, that baptism is required for salvation.

As for the thief on the cross, the others are also correct in that he died before the Resurrection and the foundation of the Church upon Pentecost. Thus, he would not have required a water baptism, although who is to say he didn't receive baptism by St. John the Baptist earlier in life? Since the Bible is silent on this issue, it isn't a very valid point to argue a non-requirement position from.

Furthermore, the early Church Fathers and indeed the Creeds speak of the necessity of baptism. It is a part of the historic, orthodox Christian faith.

As for rebaptisms, I may be wrong, but there is no need for a second baptism. Once you are baptized, you are marked as one of the Christ's own for life. In all liturgical denominations (including Catholics and the two Orthodox Churches), if you receive baptism as an infant, you are required, upon mental, spiritual, and emotional maturity, to confirm this. That is why most Christians practice the ancient rite of confirmation. Even if you are baptized as a willing adult, confirmation is automatically followed in the same ritual, in which we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Rebaptisms are even seen as dangerous because fooling around with the grace offered in this highly powerful rite is seen by many as a mockery to God. A child's horseplay is one thing, but mature adults should know better.

[abeautifuldeath]

it does not matter...water baptizm is only symbolizm of baptizm of the soul. if you are water baptized, it does not mean that you are actually baptized in the eyes of god himself...if you go through the motions, yet your heart and soul is not into it, i believe you can still go to hell.

[TasManOfGod]

When "baptism" is mentioned in respect to salvation it means "baptised into Jesus". This is a spiritual experience and does not involve water. It should also not be confused with "baptism in the Holy Spirit" which is subsequent to salvation and gives "power" to it

[Delta]

It is not a requirement for salvation, all we need to do to be saved is confess our sins and ask to be forgiven. However, Jesus commanded us to be baptized, so if we can be baptized, and refuse to, then we are disobeying Jesus and have sined against him.

[Breanainn]

I put #2, though I would change "need to" to "should," as "need to" sounds like it fits more with the first choice.

[Bladecarver]

Baptism is not a "requirement", but a show to others that we have truly accepted Jesus Christ as our personal savior. Of course, you have to truly mean it, for God knows your heart.

[TasManOfGod]

Baptism is not a "requirement", but a show to others that we have truly accepted Jesus Christ as our personal savior. Of course, you have to truly mean it, for God knows your heart.
I sincerely want to know the answer to this:
When did water baptism "change" from being a baptism of repentence (John's baptim) to a baptism to "show to others that we have truly accepted Jesus Christ as our personal savior" and what is the scriptual evidence for it ?

[ema0941]

How did people come to replace total immersion -as practiced in the bible- with pouring a little water over someone's forehead? I suppose if baptism is taken as just a symbol then it might be sufficient but it seems to me that it misses most of the point - that is showing that you are buried with Christ and rising again to new life in Him.

[TasManOfGod]

I suppose that there are many who are membrs of this forum and call themselves "Christian" simply on the basis that they were once sprinkled with water (baby baptised) and have grown up with or without the teaching of that particular denomination having any bearing on their lives. This indeed would have been the case in my own situation until I actually had a personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ. At that point I knew my savation was assured . Before that I was only kidding myself.
The point I am trying to make is that there is no problem at all in having a baby ceremony where a child is "dedicated" to serve the Lord , but to confuse that with imputing salvation is and always will be a dangerous doctrine.

[godson777]

Water baptism is not a requirement for salvation but should defintiely be done if possible because Jesus told us to in the great commission (Mt 28).
For a totally thorough and awesome proof that this is true visit:

layhands.com/IsBaptismForSalvation1.htm

The articles that have been written on layhands.com are soooo incredibly thorough and prove down to the finest detail what is trying to be said. check the site out its changed my life! (or God has through it hahaha)

God bless everyone!

[Big C]

"Not by works, that any man may boast"
Water baptism is a public signification that you've accepted Christ as saviour and believe in His death,burial, and resurrection. Even John's baptism was a signifying action of repentance. Ashes and sackloth, ect-ect.
Faith....Faith.....Faith

[overnight]

just a though for anyone who may still read this. The man on the cross next to Jesus was told by Jesus that he would enter this day into paradise with him. He was not water baptized. What we must be is spirit baptized. (John the baptists words "he who comes after me baptizes in fire" paraphrasing.

[sarah_B]

in my opinion you dont need to be baptised to be one of gods people. to me its the nailing of flags to the post, you're showing those around you what you believe for definate.

[Unique]

I think we must be baptized. But I don't know if it is by water or fire. Remember when John the Baptist said the one coming after him (Jesus) would baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit.

[Archivist]

Mark 16:16 says "he who believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." It does not say "whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned." From this it would seem that we certainly should be baptised if at all possible, but an individual who believes will not be condemned just becasue they were not baptized.

[bgoddenia]

Bless You all,:wave: Baptism is a command, a matter of obedience, for those who believes..
Jesus was baptized fully wet. The disciples were baptized fully wet. It is safe to say, if you have not been baptized by full immersion, you have not been baptized by the technique of the ordinance of Christian baptism. In baptism, we are identifying with Christ’s death and resurrection.

Ro 6:4-THEREFORE WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE AS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, EVEN SO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

Note the words: "BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM," or "BURIED…BY BAPTISM." Most preachers would agree that baptism and water go hand in hand. The word "water" may also be correctly substituted in place of the word "baptism." Note the meaning that comes forth when read this way: "buried…by water." The word "by" indicates the method whereby we identify with Christ. How? - by baptism.
Col 2:12 gives us an almost identical wording. BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM, WHEREIN ALSO YE ARE RISEN WITH HIM THROUGH THE FAITH OF THE OPERATION OF GOD, WHO HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.
"BURIED…IN BAPTISM" or "buried…in water." Biblical baptism is by being "buried" in water. In other words, baptism is by going into the water and being immersed. The word "in" distinguishes the point in time that we are identifying with Christ. When?—in baptism.
Sprinkling baptism is no baptism at all. It is Satan’s counterfeit.

GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION-1 Cor 14:33.
There are many religions and traditions that contradict God’s Word.
It was the same in the days of Jesus. Do not place your hope in a religion, but place it in the Bible. Do not follow stories that some people tell, which may cause you to err from the truth.
Some say that you do not have to be baptized, because the prisoner that hung on the cross next to Jesus was not baptized. We note the command to be baptized, given in Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38 and others, came after Jesus rose from the dead. The prisoner died before Jesus rose from the grave. How could he have been baptized into the death and resurrection of Jesus, when Jesus had not yet been buried or risen from the dead? He also died before the Holy Ghost was given. It is written: THE HOLY GHOST WAS NOT YET GIVEN-Jn 7:39; ref 20:22.
Some say that Paul was not sent to baptize, and this is true; but his followers did the baptizing. Some might say because Mk 16:16 does not repeat the word baptize in the second part of the verse that it means it is not mandatory. Read Mk 16:16-HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED. Some have asked why Jesus did not say, "He that believeth not and is baptized not?" The answer is, because we are baptized into the death and resurrection of Jesus. You cannot be baptized into One in whom you do not believe. Thus, to say HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT, "and is baptized not" would be incorrect. For if you do not believe on Jesus, it is not possible to be baptized into His death and resurrection. Therefore, if a person does not believe, no biblical baptism exists.

Some churches, such as the Quakers, Salvation Army and others believe the ordinance of baptism is not part of the church today.
Still others, such as the Churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ, and the Christian Church, believe you are saved by water. They teach baptismal regeneration. The Mormons baptize for the dead. The Roman Catholic Church sprinkles its infants and has infant baptismal regeneration. The Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopal, and Reformed Churches, traditionally say that sprinkling baptism is OK. The Scriptures very clearly show that what they do is wrong.
Some would say that water baptism is symbolic only; thus, it is not necessary. It is far more than symbolic as the Scriptures are showing us. This is why Satan fights so hard against baptism. This is why Satan tries to cause so much confusion about water baptism and is succeeding.
Some say that water baptism is not necessary as it is a form of works. Satan is a liar. Do not let him deceive you. Obey God’s Word.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
For I know the plan I have for you, declares the Lord, a plan to prosper you and not to harm you, a plan to give you hope and a future..Jere 29:1

Bless You, YOURS IN HIM, BETSY

[Smi1eWarrior]

baptism isnt required for slavation... we are saved by faith and not water nor symbolism. however, it is a command of Jesus that we all shoudl be baptised therefore it needs to be done.

I belive many people who come to christ fall away because they delay in being baptised...

Mara :)

[faithfulwarrior]

[QUOTE=shapu]I'm Christian and was not baptized - but non-Evangelical Friends (of which I am one) don't do baptism, so there you go. If your church, or your beliefs, require you to be baptized, then by all means do it.

Well, the Bible does say that if we are believers of Christ we must follow his commands, and he commands us to be baptised! Whilst baptism is NOT essential for salvation, we need to take the next step after becoming a Christian to be saved and not procrastinate. God says we should be baptised, so we should. If you can't get baptised by whatever means, then I think that God understands, but if you refuse to be baptised then you are not obeying what Christ tought, which was get baptised. Baptism is a step of obedience.

[faithfulwarrior]

Well, the Bible does say that if we are believers of Christ we must follow his commands, and he commands us to be baptised! Whilst baptism is NOT essential for salvation, we need to take the next step after becoming a Christian, which is baptism. God says we should be baptised, so we should. If you can't get baptised by whatever means, then I think that God understands, but if you refuse to be baptised then you are not obeying what Christ tought, which was get baptised. Baptism is a step of obedience.

[faithfulwarrior]

Ok, the first post didn't work very well. Sorry everyone. The start of that post was from a quote by Shapu earlier on in the forum.
Godbless you all

[n2wolves]

Well, the Bible does say that if we are believers of Christ we must follow his commands, and he commands us to be baptised! Whilst baptism is NOT essential for salvation, we need to take the next step after becoming a Christian, which is baptism. God says we should be baptised, so we should. If you can't get baptised by whatever means, then I think that God understands, but if you refuse to be baptised then you are not obeying what Christ tought, which was get baptised. Baptism is a step of obedience.
Aren't you contradicting yourself? Christ commmands us to be baptized, if we don't are we not rebelling against Christ? So if Christ commands us to be baptized for the remission of sins. I do believe that would be part of salvation, would it not?

[faithfulwarrior]

Well, let me make myself clearer.Salvation is when we accept Jesus Christ as our personal saviour, is it not? It isnt when we walk through the waters of baptism, because if it was, Jesus would not have said to the criminal on the cross next to him that he would be with him in paradise. BUT baptism is essential for someone's walk with God. If they do not get baptised after receiving Jesus, they are rebelling against Christ, thus they sin. What I meant was that initially, we do not need baptism to receive Christ. But we need it afterwards in order to OBEY his commands and follow him. Because if we don't get baptised we are disobeying Christ's commands.
Does that make things a little clearer?

[Archivist]

We are saved when we accept Christ as our savior, and we are to be baptised because He commands it. However, nowhere in the Bible does it say that we will not received salvation because we are not baptised. In saying this I am specifically thinking of emergency situations. What if a soldier on the battlefield in Iraq is shot and accepts Christ as he is dying? Would a God of love and mercy condem him because he was not able to be baptised? I certainly don't think so!

[n2wolves]

Well, let me make myself clearer.Salvation is when we accept Jesus Christ as our personal saviour, is it not? It isnt when we walk through the waters of baptism, because if it was, Jesus would not have said to the criminal on the cross next to him that he would be with him in paradise. BUT baptism is essential for someone's walk with God. If they do not get baptised after receiving Jesus, they are rebelling against Christ, thus they sin. What I meant was that initially, we do not need baptism to receive Christ. But we need it afterwards in order to OBEY his commands and follow him. Because if we don't get baptised we are disobeying Christ's commands.
Does that make things a little clearer?
When Christ told the theif on the cross he would be with him in paradise they were still under the old law. When Christ was crucified a new convenant had taken affect with the cleansing of sin with Christs blood. Salvation is a process, accepting Christ and Baptism are parts of it.

Hear

First, we must hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17). One is not a Christian because his parents are. Faith cannot be inherited (Ezekiel 18:20). Each person must believe in Jesus Christ for himself. Christianity is a religion of teaching (Matthew 28:19,20). Unless one has heard the Gospel and learned that Jesus Christ died for his sins, was buried, and arose from the dead, he cannot be saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The apostle Paul wrote: "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher" (Romans 10:14)? One must first hear the Gospel before he can believe it.

Believe

Second, one must believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16). Jesus said: "...if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24). The jailor at Philippi asked Paul and Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They told him to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" (Acts 16:30,31). Jesus also said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:16). One comes to believe in Jesus Christ when he hears the Gospel taught. Faith comes only by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). This is the reason it is so important that the Gospel be preached to the whole world (Mark 16:15).

Repent

Third, one must repent of his sins in order to be saved (Acts 17:30,31). Jesus commanded that "repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47). Repentance is a result of being sorry for one’s sins (2 Corinthians 7:10). When the Jews on Pentecost Day learned from Peter that they had crucified the Son of God, they "were cut to the heart" ( Acts 2:37). They wanted to be forgiven of their sins, so they asked, "What shall we do?" They were told to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." (Acts 2:37,38). When one repents, he turns away from his sins (1 Thessalonians 1:9). He shows he has repented by doing good works (Matthew 3:8).

Confess

Fourth, one must confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16). This great truth is the very foundation upon which the church of Christ is built (Matthew 16:18; Acts 4:11,12; 1 Corinthians 3:11). Jesus said that we must be willing to confess Him before men if we want Him to confess us before the Father (Matthew 10:32,33). The apostle Paul wrote: "But what does it say? ‘The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart’ (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Romans 10:8-10). When Philip preached Jesus to the Ethiopian eunuch, the eunuch asked, "What hinders me from being baptized?" Philip told him he could be baptized if he believed. The eunuch then confessed, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:35-38). We must make this important, yet simple confession also in order to be saved.

Be Baptized

Fifth, one must be baptized in order to be saved. Jesus said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16). Please note that baptism follows belief. One who does not believe the Gospel cannot be truly baptized. Therefore, babies cannot be baptized for they are too young to (1) have sin, (2) hear the Gospel, (3) repent of sins, and (4) confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Baptism also follows repentance. On Pentecost Day, Peter told those who asked what to do to be saved to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized..." (Acts 2:38). One cannot be truly baptized who has not truly repented.

[Archivist]

Fifth, one must be baptized in order to be saved. Jesus said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16). Please note that baptism follows belief. One who does not believe the Gospel cannot be truly baptized. Therefore, babies cannot be baptized for they are too young to (1) have sin, (2) hear the Gospel, (3) repent of sins, and (4) confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Baptism also follows repentance. On Pentecost Day, Peter told those who asked what to do to be saved to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized..." (Acts 2:38). One cannot be truly baptized who has not truly repented.

So the soldier wounded on the battlefield who accepts Christ as he is dying would not be saved because he hasn't been baptised? I'm sorry, but I don't believe that a God of love and mercy would not welcome that person into heaven despite the fact that he had not been baptised.

[JCis4Me]

Water baptism is the symbolic enactment of something that has already happened to you. It is very important to understand that it is an outward expression of an inner reality. Water baptism means nothing unless God’s salvation has already been received by faith. The two aspects of that salvation (faith and repentance) lie at the core of the meaning of baptism in water.

Baptism does not make something happen. Baptism should occur because something has already happened.

[ChildofGod2004]

Konnie,if that is true how was the Thief on the Cross saved since he wasnt baptized in water


Hi! billiefan2000, The theif was still under the law. For all we know he may have been baptised under John's Baptism of repentance.
Seriously, when Jesus died at Calvary his blood went back through time to the men and women that had serve him under the law.
And they were saved thru Jesus's Blood.:clap:
Here is what Jesus told Peter to do Acts 2:38. Jesus also told his disciples to go and preach and baptize. Jesus also told Nichodemus you HAVE to be born of Water and Spirit.

God bless You all,
Beth

[n2wolves]

Water baptism is the symbolic enactment of something that has already happened to you. It is very important to understand that it is an outward expression of an inner reality. Water baptism means nothing unless God’s salvation has already been received by faith. The two aspects of that salvation (faith and repentance) lie at the core of the meaning of baptism in water.

Baptism does not make something happen. Baptism should occur because something has already happened.




According to your logic all Christ commands of us is faith and repentance for us to be saved, if that was all there was to salvation why the commandment for baptism? Baptism isn't to benefit to show fellow brethren and the rest of the world to see that we have repented. Christ commanded it for the remission of sins.

[n2wolves]

So the soldier wounded on the battlefield who accepts Christ as he is dying would not be saved because he hasn't been baptised? I'm sorry, but I don't believe that a God of love and mercy would not welcome that person into heaven despite the fact that he had not been baptised.
Archivist it's there in black and white in New Testament, We must do and Christ commands and not what man wants to do. We must adhere to scripture and not our own set of beliefs.

Acts 2
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[Archivist]

Archivist it's there in black and white in New Testament, We must do and Christ commands and not what man wants to do. We must adhere to scripture and not our own set of beliefs.

Acts 2
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


N2wolves, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I agree that people should be baptised, however I don't believe that a God of love and mercy will condemn someone who has come to Christ but was not baptised because of intervening circumstances. Mark 16:16 is very clear: "Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." It does not say whoever is not baptised will be condemned.

[n2wolves]

Archivist you just confirmed what i've been saying He that believe and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. This isn't an and/or commandment each must be done. You remember Nadab and Abihu dont' you they offered strange fire before Jehovah something that wasn't commanded of them and they died before him didn't they. We must do as the Lord commands.


Leviticus 10
1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.

Numbers 3
4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.

Numbers 26
61 And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the LORD.

[Archivist]

I beg to differ. Baptism is an outward sign. We are to be baptised because God says to do it but we will not be condemed it we are not baptised or Mark would have said he who does not believe and is not baptised will be condemned. The fact that it does not say that makes it clear that it is not absolutely required. Again, I point to my hypothetical situation of a soldier who accepts Christ as he is dying on the battlefield.

You are free to your beliefs. I simply do not agree and apparently a amjority of those who responded to the poll agree with my position. We will simply have to agree to disagree.

[The Julikenz]

Baptism is an outward sign of our commitment to God. it does not cleanse us from our sins nor give us forgiveness. "EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM RECIEVES FORGIVENESS OF SINS THROUGH HIS NAME" Acts 10:43. and "THE BLOOD OF JESUS HIS SON, PURIFYS US FROM EVERY SIN" 1 John 1:7

If we are baptised, but donot truly believe , we will by no means be saved!!!

baptism however is a command, and if we ignore it in our lives, we sin. for it is written: "get up , be baptised, CALLING ON HIS NAME." Acts 22:16
be careful, for it does NOT say "get up, be baptised to be saved calling on his name"

it is written in romans6:3,4 "DONT YOU KNOW THAT ALL OF US WHO WERE BAPTISED INTO CHRIST JESUS WERE BAPTISED INTO HIS DEATH? WE WERE THEREFORE BURIED WITH HIM THROUGH BAPTISM INTO DEATH IN ORDER THAT, JUST AS CHRIST WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD THROUGH THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, WE TOO MAY HAVE NEW LIFE"

This is powerful, and just as Jesus said in matthew 10:32 "THEREFORE HE WHO CONFESSES ME BEFORE MEN,HIM I WILL CONFESS BEFORE MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN, BUT WHOEVER DENIES ME BEFORE MEN , HE I WILLL DENY BEFORE MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN."

We must not deny Jesus with our lives.

HOWEVER, TO BE SAVED, BAPTISM IS NOT ULTIMATELY THE DECIDER.

"HE WHO BELIEVES IN THE SON HAS EVERLASTING LIFE, HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE SON SYHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM" Jn3:36

[Andyman_1970]

So if Christ commands us to be baptized for the remission of sins.

And where does Jesus command that baptsim remits sins?

[n2wolves]

And where does Jesus command that baptsim remits sins?
Did Christ and the Holy Ghost teach the apostles?

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Act 8:27 And he arose and went: and behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasure, who had come to Jerusalem to worship;

Act 8:28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.

Act 8:29 And the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Act 8:30 And Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some one shall guide me? And he besought Philip to come up and sit with him.

Act 8:32 Now the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before his shearer is dumb, So he openeth not his mout