How to Explain Icons to Protestants?

[vlinder]

To Life Immortal

I was trying to explain icons to Baptists on CF, but I don't want to give wrong information.

I told them that we have flat pictures of Lord Jesus, Blessed Virgin, saints and events and that we honour them like people honour flag of country. We dont have statues in Orthodox church because of commandment against graven image. I told them I greet icons when I come to church and they seemed confused about that.

Did I explain correctly? What is best way to describe icons and greeting them to Protestants?

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Vlinder ~*~

[Oblio]

Have you read 'No Graven Image' ?

[Oblio]

No Graven Image -By Fr. Jack N. Sparks PhD. (http://www.cs.iupui.edu/~jtwilson/church/image.html)

[vlinder]

To Life Immortal


Have you read 'No Graven Image' ?
No I have not. Is it a book or a website?

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Vlinder ~*~

[Oblio]

See post #3

It is an Orthodox tract, available online or printed.

[vlinder]

To Life Immortal

Thank you for link Oblio. They were interested in what I meant by greeting icons. I told them that when I enter church, there are icons of Lord Jesus, Blessed Virgin, saint of church and saint/event of the day. I make sign of cross, kiss icon by kissing fingertips and touch icon and light candle (when I can).

I then enter main part of church where people sit. If I walk in front of Royal Doors/Tabernacle, I make sign of cross because I believe in Real Presence. I go to where chanters stand and chant during Divine Liturgy. At end of service, I go up to kiss cross and Father James says Christ is in our midst and says hello. I get piece of bread from bowl. Before I leave church, I make sign of cross again.

I think I explained it OK. I guess it sounds strange to them being Baptists.

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Vlinder ~*~

[Oblio]

We gave an Orthodox apologetic talk (in our temple) to a group of 'live' Baptists down the street :eek: . Our speaker asked the group of 20 Baptist seniors for a show of hands of who had never kissed a picture of a loved one; son, daughter, grandchild, or parent. Not one hand went up. He then asked if they thought that the picture was actually the person or that they loved and honored the paper and glass that they might kiss. All shook their heads. He then explained that this is exactly what we do when we venerate icons.

I think this was well received given the post presentation reception and follow on questions, and the fact that our temple hasn't been firebombed :D

[Michael the Iconographer]

Please forgive me for the partial repost, but it is appropriate here. This is a quote from a paper which I am writing on "Why Orthodox Churches are Full of Icons" to be published sometime in the near (or not so near) future:

The Old Testament is a source for the use of Iconography in Orthodox Christian Churches which is often overlooked. Many non-Orthodox theologians and ministers see the Old Testament as being iconoclast. The Third Commandment commands man to not make graven images of creation and fall down before them and the book of Exodus also tells man that he can make no image of God for man has never seen the Father. However, a deeper study of the Old Testament will reveal that contrary to the iconoclast claims, the Old Testament commands man to make a beautiful temple in which to worship God. God did in fact command man to make images to be placed on the Ark of the Covenant and in the Temple which was built by Solomon. Two cherubim each 10 cubits high were placed in the inner sanctuary of the temple, each overlaid with gold and both the inner and outer sanctuaries of the temple were carved with palm trees, flowers and cherubim (1 Kings 6:23-35). Exodus chapters 35-37 discuss the intricate detail which was put into the construction of the Ark of the Covenant, including the two gold cherubim which sat on top of the ark. These things were done in order to facilitate the adoration of the then unseen God by the Israelites. They could not make images of the face of Christ for the Word had not yet become flesh, and yet God still commanded them to make holy images to adorn his temple and his ark. The Old Testament is not iconoclast, it simply insists that adoration be given to God alone and that veneration be given only to those sacred things which God ordained.

Just as the new law changed because of the Incarnation, so did the scope of the 2nd commandment change. “And the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us.” Before the incarnation is was impossible to depict the Logos in images as God is an incorporeal spirit and the Son had yet to take on human flesh. To make an image of the invisible God is idolatry and the worship of a graven image. With the incarnation matter is no longer corrupt by nature, as the invisible God had taken on human flesh and had redeemed creation. If the incarnation was not proof enough of this, Christ proved this to us again at the Transfiguration when he gave the Apostles a glimpse of his Heavenly glory while still in his human flesh. He further showed the change in scope of the 2nd commandment when he pressed the Holy Napkin to his face and sent it to King Abgar of Edyssa with his image imprinted on it. Upon seeing the Holy Napkin and having faith Abgar was cured of his leprosy. These actions are hardly coming from a God who is offended by the veneration of Holy Images, but rather are coming from God who understands the place of the veneration of Holy Images. The early church knew and understood these events for what they were meant to be.

[ufonium2]

Remind them that the verse in question doesn't specify that you shall have no graven images in church, so if they are gonna get upset about graphic representations of people and events, that should extend into all aspects of life. So, not only should they board up those idolatrous stained-glass windows in church ;) but they should go home and get rid of their photo albums.