Degree of similarity between current and past Jewish Torah disobedience

[Linda8]

What are the main similarities between the Northern 10 tribes refusal to obey Torah (as a group)
after their separation from Judah and the spiritual state and worship (or lack thereof) of
current Jews as one body (Messianic and Non - Messianic) living in the Holy Land? The degree of similarity of apostasy and associated areas may differ but breaking the Torah severely is unpardonable before G-d in both cases.

The sustained break from full Torah compliance for over half a century while back on Holy Land is really stressing for Jews. The wisdom of G-d in providing historical accounts would help us study the similarities and draw appropriate lessons.

[Wills]

Did the Levitical priests leave the 10 northern Jewish tribes of their own accord?

That influenced events to an extent.

For current keeping of festivals
Deut 16:16 Three times a year ALL your males shall appear before the Lord your G-d at the place that He

will choose: at the festival of unleavened bread, at the festival of weeks and at the festival of booths,.

Has the Lord chosen places regularly for Jews of this generation for such complete assembly/appearance to properly keep the festivals exactly as the Lord demands?

As populations increase, assemblies would increase in number.

[simchat_torah]

In what way do the Jews break the torah?

and how is it remotely similar to the unobservant history you refer to???

[BenTsion]

Linda8,
I think the refusal of the Samaritans to follow the Torah (I believe that's the only scriptural record of an attempt to worship G-d and only partially following the Torah - when the Samaritans restored their religious system after Greek dominance) in much resembles modern-day Christianity. Non-Messianic Israel is in disobedience, but that is regarding their acceptance of Mashiach, not in terms of Torah-observance.

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion

[sojeru]

Intresting the Samaritans today do not believe in any prophet save for Moshe Rabbeinu and they except Yeshuah as Messiah of the world. However, it looks to me that they observe or at least try to observe every letter that is in Torah to THEIR understanding however.
It is to that reason why they are still on the nablous (Gerizim) in stead of Moriah (Jerusalem)
oh well.

[simchat_torah]

Samaritans today?

[iitb]

http://www.the-samaritans.com/

[ShirChadash]

:sorry: I am so in the dark I had no idea there were still Samaritans...:confused:

[BenTsion]

I saw a documentary on the modern-day samaritans once... they had a funny looks... kinda like the mix between an orthodox jew and a muslim... sort of eerie, coming to think of it. ;)

[Linda8]

In what way do the Jews break the torah?

and how is it remotely similar to the unobservant history you refer to???


Simchat,

If history were unobservant, then Jews would not return to the land.

If history were unobservant, then the historical teachings in the Talmud

given to Moses would be unobservant even in the era of Nehemiah, years later after the return from

Babylonian captivity, not to mention hundreds of years later today.

Once we say history is unobservant, all teachings of Torah (which were passed down

from history) cease to hold and cannot be observed.

What do you say?

By the way, how does G-d require the festivals to be held today and how does he require

the males to assemble in his presence today?

Is such a simple command too difficult to obey? I think not.

Disobeying such a command places one in violation.

Malachi 4:4 G-d commands Jews to REMEMBER and obey all commands He gave the Past (history).

Remember the teachings of my servant Moses, the statutes and ordinances that I commanded him at

Horeb for all Israel.

This was CENTURIES later after the life of Moses.

[Linda8]

I saw a documentary on the modern-day samaritans once... they had a funny looks... kinda like the mix between an orthodox jew and a muslim... sort of eerie, coming to think of it. ;)


Shalom Ben,

Probably they were trying to look like how people looked in the days of the Israelite kingdom.

Interesting.

[Linda8]

Linda8,
I think the refusal of the Samaritans to follow the Torah (I believe that's the only scriptural record of an attempt to worship G-d and only partially following the Torah - when the Samaritans restored their religious system after Greek dominance) in much resembles modern-day Christianity. Non-Messianic Israel is in disobedience, but that is regarding their acceptance of Mashiach, not in terms of Torah-observance.

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion


Hi Ben,

The Samaritans are therefore following a different path from the other groups and multiplicity is evidence

of some degree of disagreement among the Jews.

The situation of Non- Messianic Israel needs very careful guidance for a number of reasons.

If they (Non- Messianic Israel) do not accept Mashiach then they HAVE TO obey ALL requirements of
sacrifices and offerings with no excuse whatsoever. Therein lies the severe problem. One cannot make up
one's own rules and obey neither.

So the result is that they NEITHER fully obey Torah nor accept Mashiach.

Therefore they are without any form of relationship with Torah and only perform certain activities

that are related to Torah while NEGLECTING all offerings and there are MANY offerings required for those

who do not accept Mashiach.

Therefore, the prophets were always in a bad state of warning whenever the Jews existed in the

state no cleanliness regarding sin.

One sees why G-d has so many prophets warning Jews in such existence in the Tanakh.

Whenever warnings were given, they were always caused by Jews in non- law compliant state.

[Linda8]

and how is it remotely similar to the unobservant history you refer to???


If festivals of Torah are unobservant history then do you observe or not....?

[sojeru]

oh yeah the samaritans exist- only hold on to the torah, not the prophets and believe in Messiah Yeshuah.
oh yeah and they still hate or rather dislike Jews with a vengance.

And they remind me of our Evyoni friend that we have on the forums with us now.

shalom

[Atkin]

oh yeah the samaritans exist- only hold on to the torah, not the prophets and believe in Messiah Yeshuah.
oh yeah and they still hate or rather dislike Jews with a vengance.

shalom
How could that be possible, since the today's Samaritans are from the House of Israel thus brothers of Jews. Samaritans are the Ephraimites etc

By the way , which houses are Jews from? Midian etc? Moshe's father in law...

Peace

[sojeru]

How could that be possible, since the today's Samaritans are from the House of Israel thus brothers of Jews. Samaritans are the Ephraimites etc

By the way , which houses are Jews from? Midian etc? Moshe's father in law...

Peace

greetings Atkin and welcome to these Forums,

Now, it seems to me that you have your ideas mixed up.
The Samaritans- just do a search on them and read about what they believe or go to the site provided above. The Samaritans believe exactly as I have told you and you should not think about picking arguements so bodly if you are in ignorance- it is better to just sincerely ask for knowledge.

So the Samaritans DO NOT believe in the prophets they only believe in Moses.

Now the Jews? why make such an ignorant statement- I think you should think about that last statement you have made and read the Bible and understand it.
Remember Jesus was a Jew- jews are midianites?? i never knew that Moses fathered the Jewish people:)

shalom u'bracha

[Atkin]

[/font]

greetings Atkin and welcome to these Forums,

Now, it seems to me that you have your ideas mixed up.
The Samaritans- just do a search on them and read about what they believe or go to the site provided above. The Samaritans believe exactly as I have told you and you should not think about picking arguements so bodly if you are in ignorance- it is better to just sincerely ask for knowledge.

So the Samaritans DO NOT believe in the prophets they only believe in Moses.

Now the Jews? why make such an ignorant statement- I think you should think about that last statement you have made and read the Bible and understand it.
Remember Jesus was a Jew- jews are midianites?? i never knew that Moses fathered the Jewish people:)

shalom u'bracha
Sojeru,
Greetings and thanks for the welcome. I always like to hope that people avoid unneccesary friction so I wonder why the Samaritans would adopt a hostile attitude towards people with whom they share such close heritage.

Perhaps you could explain why they behave in that manner.
What in scriptures makes them disbelieve all but Moses. Moses handed over to Joshua who did the same and the torch has been passed down for centuries.

My last question may have been more along the lines of wit :)

Its just that I find it interesting that Moses was living away from his fellow
kinsmen at the time he was called by G-d. There is a purpose for everything.. I guess.

A.

[sojeru]

Greetings and thanks for the welcome. I always like to hope that people avoid unneccesary friction so I wonder why the Samaritans would adopt a hostile attitude towards people with whom they share such close heritage.

The bible in the "new testament" records such a friction. The Jews believe this the samaritans believe that.

in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah it shows a great friction between the Samaritans and the Jews. Zerubavel the righteous, ancestor of Jesus, led the campaign against the Samaritans.

The Samaritans- also viewed good in the eyes of the northern country of Yisrael- were backed up by Manasseh and were the ones the killed Isaiah for "speaking against" the Torah.
When i find the mishna or midrash on this I will share it with you.

This is one reason why they do not believe in Isaiah as a prophet, they consider him a false prophet.
also, anyone else that spoke against the samaritans were seen as false prophets- and this was even before the Babylonian and Assyrian captivity of Yisrael and Judah.
So the Samaritans creeded for themselves after a point that Judah is evil and anyone that comes from them.
Thus, in the "NT" you can see why the samaritan woman was a tad hostile in her attitude toward Jesus.

The hostility of Samaria and Judea is not outside Bible- all you have to do is look...
but it would be good for you to talk with the samaritans too. Maybe you can get some more information that i might have left out.

oh also, i believe that they have one book that reffers to Joshua but it isnt the same book that we have.

shalom u'bracha