On Tallit and Tzitzit

[P_G]

Shalom! :clap:

My dear wife is embarking on producing a Tallit for me. (A good gift from a good wife!)

First has anyone on the fourmn done such a project from scratch themselves?

We are considering which fabric to use be it wool or linnen or all silk I am personally partial to wool but do not know where one would get a supply of the traditional wool that is used. (The pretty cream colored wool from Isreal)


The other problem I have is in the tying of the Tzitzit I have never watched anyone do this and the websites I have seen I can't manage to decipher. Any suggestions?

Thank you so much all of you for your input

Much Love

Pastor George

[simchat_torah]

Shalom Pastor George,

May I ask a few quick questions?
1) Why do you want to wear a Tallit?
2) Do you understand the significance of the Tallit?
3) Do you realize that by wearing the Tallit you are making a statement to the Jewish and Messianic commuinity?
4) Why do you desire to make the Tallit yourself?
5) Do you realize that there are very specific Rabbinic Halacha (oral law) concerning the way in which a tallit is made, and there are specific requirements on who ties the Tzitzit, etc?
6) Are you following the messianic faith, or are you fascinated by the meaning/use of the Tallit and simply see the beauty in this tradition?

I think once these questions are addressed, I can more fully answer your questions.

Shalom!
Yafet.

[simchat_torah]

First has anyone on the fourmn done such a project from scratch themselves?


Yes. About 6 years ago I tied several Tzitzit myself, made my own Tallit Katan (one worn under the clothing) and regular ole Tallit from wool.

I have since come to a different understanding and have purposefully with-held making tzitzit myself.

The other problem I have is in the tying of the Tzitzit I have never watched anyone do this and the websites I have seen I can't manage to decipher. Any suggestions?

Is it the knots themselves you have trouble with? or is it the number of wrappings or knots that concern you? is it the coloring of the Tzitzit? the number of strings?

Which aspect do you have trouble with?

Shalom,
Yafet.

[P_G]

Shalom Pastor George,

May I ask a few quick questions?
1) Why do you want to wear a Tallit?

To fufill the mitzphoh of Bamidbar (Numbers 15:38-41) As commanded to Moshe


2) Do you understand the significance of the Tallit?


Yes I beleive so and teach on it regularlly I do not beleive that this command
has not been recinded


3) Do you realize that by wearing the Tallit you are making a statement to the Jewish and Messianic commuinity?


As well as the Christian community to which we are still called to be a beacon.


4) Why do you desire to make the Tallit yourself?

There is some symbiology that the Lord has laid on my heart which would
be more appropriate to a messianic that to the non messianic. I suppose to make the experience more significant to one who follows Y'shua.


5) Do you realize that there are very specific Rabbinic Halacha (oral law) concerning the way in which a tallit is made, and there are specific requirements on who ties the Tzitzit, etc?

Yes and I promise to make sure of the threads being ok in the sewing and that there will be no linnen on my wool Tallit


6) Are you following the messianic faith, or are you fascinated by the meaning/use of the Tallit and simply see the beauty in this tradition?


I am a messianic gentile I cannot be a messianic Jew as my mother was not Jewish. Though not bound to the keeping of the law by decision of the council of Yirushalaim that I choose to do so in order to draw closer to messiah who died for me.


I think once these questions are addressed, I can more fully answer your questions.

Shalom!
Yafet.

Bless you Yafet I enjoy your posts very much and have no probably confused things even more.
PG

[P_G]

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Yes. About 6 years ago I tied several Tzitzit myself, made my own Tallit Katan (one worn under the clothing) and regular ole Tallit from wool.

I have since come to a different understanding and have purposefully with-held making tzitzit myself.



Is it the knots themselves you have trouble with? or is it the number of wrappings or knots that concern you? is it the coloring of the Tzitzit? the number of strings?

Which aspect do you have trouble with?

Shalom,
Yafet.


The knots Yafet its the knots that baffle me

What was your read on not tying your own tzitzit? Your reasons. Please share.

PG :confused: :confused:

[Hix]

It is quite a challange to knot the tzitzit's 613 times, I pray HaShem will help and bless you as you take on this Mitzvot!
And if all else fails you can get some very nice pure wool Tallit/Tallit Katan over the internet :)

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

[simchat_torah]

Shalom PG,

I am currently at work, and I'm going to run off to lunch for now.... but I'll be back to address some of this at that time.

However, I wanted to make a quick note:
It is quite a challange to knot the tzitzit's 613 times
Actually, there aren't 613 knots. But the Hewbrew letters the knots represent through gematria represent 613.
The knots Yafet its the knots that baffle me
The knots are rather simple as well...
Essentially, you loop the 3 white and 1 blue strings through the hole in the Tallit and make a double knot (or 2 depending on the style) to secure it to the Tallit. Then in alterating sequence you wrap the single blue cord (or string) around the two double square knots. The tzitzit goes as such:

7 wrappings
2 double square knots
8 wrappings
2 double square knots
11 wrappings
2 double square knots
13 wrappings
2 double square knots
and then the rest hangs down several inches after the last knots

so the order of the wrappings is: 7, 8, 11, 13

Halachically, there is a specific shade of blue that is to be used. For some time, the shade of blue that was used on the tzitzit came from an extinct (or thought to have been extinct) shellfish. However, in the Medditerranean Sea, this shellfish has since been rediscovered and you can now purchase the string or tzitzit itself from a number of Jewish online sources. Without this specific color, one is to make the tzitzit completely from white chords.

Shalom!
Yafet.

[Hix]

Shalom Yafet,

Thanks for clearing that up, Ive actually heard many different stories of what the windings on the Tzitzit represent. One is that the numbers 7, 8 and 11 when added together make 26 which is the equivelent of the Tetragrammaton and that the last number the 13 is the equivelent to echad or one. So the tzitzit also remind us of the Shema :)

Thanks for explaining
Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

[Henaynei]

Shalom Pastor George,

May I ask a few quick questions?
2) Do you understand the significance of the Tallit?
3) Do you realize that by wearing the Tallit you are making a statement to the Jewish and Messianic commuinity?
Wearing the Tallit is saying to both G-d and man that YOU are living as a Jew, i.e. a Jewish lifestyle, and that you have taken on the yoke of keeping all the mitzvot/commmandments/instructions of Torah that can be kept today. That is what G-d says is the purpose of the Tallit.

This is a very solemn pledge that is renewed everytime a man puts on the Tallit and one all too often over looked or simply ignored by Jew and Gentile alike.

[simchat_torah]

2) Do you understand the significance of the Tallit?http://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-right.gifYes I beleive so and teach on it regularlly I do not beleive that this command
has not been recinded

Do you believe there are certain mitzvot that were recinded?


3) Do you realize that by wearing the Tallit you are making a statement to the Jewish and Messianic commuinity?http://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-right.gif
As well as the Christian community to which we are still called to be a beacon.


While I understand and appreciate your view, I doubt that the christian community understands, let alone is affected by, someone wearing a Tallit. Just my 2 sheckels.

I am a messianic gentile

Ah... I see. I was somewhat thrown off by the title "Pastor".

;)

What was your read on not tying your own tzitzit? Your reasons. Please share.

I guess my answer will force me to touch upon my personal history. You see, while both of my grandpa's are of Jewish lineage and ancestory, this would not allow me to halachically be Jewish under the traditions of Judaism. You see, a Jew must follow his heritage from mother to mother a certain number of generations. While I can trace it through my mother's side, it stops at her father. Since I was not raised in a Jewish home, nor with the Jewish faith, I would not be recognized by the Orthodox Beit Din as Jewish.

When one wears the Tallit they are making a strong cultural statement to the Jewish people. It is a declaration not only of faith, but Jewish standing. A gentile is not allowed to wear a Tallit until they have finished a Jewish conversion.

In other words, I did not want to lie to my Jewish brethren. While I feel that the particular halacha is incorrect (that I feel Ruach HaKodesh sees the lineage of either parent and not just maternal lines) I respect their view and wish not to offend the Jewish people.

Something I have not discussed in this forums is that my wife and I are currently seeking a full Orthodox conversion. Both of us have Jewish heritage, but it does eventually stop with a male somewhere down the line. As well, neither of us were brought up under the canopy of Judaism. Until I complete conversion I can not make Aliyah and be recognized by the Israeli government and the synagogue. As well, until that point, I have decided to not wear my tallit.

However, I will say that I do wear my tallit katan under my clothes as I personally observe the Halacha between myself and HaShem.

I will not impose any guilt upon others to follow this. It is my own conviction, but since you asked... ;)

Shalom,
Yafet.

[P_G]

Yafet: :wave:

What a blessing to talk with you! OK this is very off topic here. I could by custom of our denomination use the title of Rabbi. However because of the English translation of Matt 23:8
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

I don't much care to use that title.

So I prefer to be called Pastor for that is what I am a tender of sheeps

I would say that you are correct that many Christians would find some of what we hold dear offensive and that the Jew need be a light to the Gentile would be one of them. So to that I am not Orthodox nor seek orthodoxy <sp> would have many in the Jewish community finding me offensive as well. (I must just be an offensive guy)

Actually in his day our sweet Y'shua was pretty offensive to a lot of people to so I guess I am in really good company.

But you are wrong with your assumption about the Christian community being affected by even one person wearing Tallit. It is a powerful statement to them and as they question they learn.

Now I am not saying in the mainstream conservative churches but in the Charismatic church you are going to find people that choose to serve G-d best that they can.

Which brings me to the real reason that one should observe mitzpah which is because H'ashem requires it and He is the one we should be seeking to please and be closer to. If some men are upset then they are upset. Trust me on the last day it will not be them that sits in judgement of you.

And that is my umm 2 Dinarius on the subject

PG