Submission to leadership

[Droobie]

The Bible teaches us to submit to our leaders. But what if the leaders are not leading? Or over the course of time we disagree with what their 'vision' is. Now with governments, we exercise this with a vote. In the church scene, voting 'leaders' in or out may not be possible, which could lead to people leaving or splitting the congregation. What are your thoughts?

[Konnie]

Pray about it first.

[Echoes Peak]

Well, I voted to pray about it first and know that God will lead me in the right direction regarding what to do. That beings said, if I were part of a church where I wasn't completely sure about the leader's motivation for the choices he/she makes, then I hope that I would be able to approach him/her and discuss it. Depending on the situation and the seriousness of the issue, I may or may not stay with the church. If it is something that I believe is in contradiction with God's law, and in my own spirit I do not feel it is right, I would mostly likely in that situation leave that church.

[Blessed-one]

pray about it and try to get people to talk to each other.

"I plead with Euodia and I pread with Syntche to agree with each other in the Lord. Yes, and i ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life." - Philippians 4:2-3

[Snowy]

Pray...and follow them if you feel like you should but don't make them a God

[MAC]

Yes, if they've not done anything Bibically wrong or cotradicts what you believed... or stand for..

[gusto5]

your "leader" might not necessarily be a true leader anyway. If he was a true leader, i would stick with him/her, pray...but sometimes things do get out of hand. so...from there, its praying time...:clap:

[Stubborn Mule]

I try to give a lot of respect towards those in charge. I think that responsibility is a large burden and so I really try to give leaders a lot of respect.

In the last year I have been an admistrator on a board and the experience has given me a greater respect for the leaders in charge. It is not an easy thing to have to be in charge and have to make the hard decisions.

mule

[Glorianna]

I believe that you should submit to your leaders unless they do something against the teachings of the Bible.

[Theofilus]

The body of Christ has only one head - Jesus. Follow him, not men.

Grace is free but it is not cheap.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

[oldrooster]

Pray about it first

[mle]

I think that our leaders will have to answer to God therefore they have the responsibility of leading in God's direction.

[jeshohaia]

Bring everything to G-D! The only way, he will answer.

[Niko]

pray for guidence

[Koey]

The pastor in the local Pentecostal church is always pushing his "authority." As far as I'm concerned if you have to mention it that much you don't have any. He is certainly no authority when it comes to the Bible. When he uses it, which is not much, he uses it in a very sloppy manner. So, no, I am not impressed by that kind of "authority."

Now if the pastor in my new church, where they DO preach the Bible, gains my trust, I will prayerfully consider walking with him as far as I can.

[Unique]

Pray about it. God will give you the perfect answer.

[Tara]

We definitely have to follow Jesus, but we also have to remember "Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's".

[bgoddenia]

The Bible teaches us to submit to our leaders. But what if the leaders are not leading? Or over the course of time we disagree with what their 'vision' is. Now with governments, we exercise this with a vote. In the church scene, voting 'leaders' in or out may not be possible, which could lead to people leaving or splitting the congregation. What are your thoughts?
I understand what you mean I've been through it more or less, now when a leader is apointed to lead the Church and you see He's wrong sweety when someone is wrong they can't really lead to the right direction because he himself is lost and or confuse so what we must, should do is bring it before God and allow Him to lead because He is the Leader or all leaders and He will direct and teach us the right way.

Looking Unto Christ who make Us Whole, Betsy

[bgoddenia]

The pastor in the local Pentecostal church is always pushing his "authority." As far as I'm concerned if you have to mention it that much you don't have any. He is certainly no authority when it comes to the Bible. When he uses it, which is not much, he uses it in a very sloppy manner. So, no, I am not impressed by that kind of "authority." Now if the pastor in my new church, where they DO preach the Bible, gains my trust, I will prayerfully consider walking with him as far as I can.
But let Him who boasts boast about that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight, Declares the Lord.

Yours In Him, Betsy

[caitlincares]

Pray.

I had three times that I HAD to tell leadership that I WOULD not do what they wanted me to do.

A choir director and I did not see eye to eye on copyright law so that I quit the choir. That was not easy becuase I love singing especially for the Lord.

A boss wanted me to lie about another employee's status. I refused.
Someone else had to tell the lie.

Another boss wanted me to hand over a copyrighted manual so they could copy it. After higher management said it can not be done. I refused. I am pretty sure they did it when I was not around.

[Breanainn]

Everything should be done prayerfully. :)

[TheMainException]

If your leader stays true to what God says in the word and you are seeking God on the situation and you feel like he is doing the right thing, stay true to your leader. If you feel like it is wrong, turn away.

[sweetlambofgod]

God is my leader and i will follow him to the very end

[signwonder]

There is a teaching these days that has been going around about spiritual covering. This is only a way for men to control people and although taught at major christian churches, shows, television, and events is simply false doctrine. Christ is our covering and became so out of necessity because the leaders of the churches before were abusive and controlling of the sheep (congregations). Nothing has changed today. Men become Pastors, Teacher, Evangelists, Apostles, and Prophets and still abuse people with thier leadership just like in I believe it is written about in the 34th Chapter of Ezekiel. Only Christ can be trusted and His sheep know HIs voice and another one they will NOT follow. We are to pray for those in leadership and obviously they need it. Leadership is a hard job and the enemy works hard at making them abuse the little bit of power they have with usurping thier power and controling the flock. Leaders will be held accountable to God for what they do with those that God allows them to feed. Feeding is not controlling, demanding, and abusing though. Only when leaders act like Jesus then they are truly in Christ. In the last days there will be false leaders in the positions of Pastor, Apostle, Teacher, Prophet and Evangelist. They are here and are wolves in sheep's clothing waiting to devour the flock. Unfortunately thier tactics and numbers are increasing as we are in ever darker days. As the days of Noah so shall the day before the returning of the Son of Man be.

[Raithlin]

Pray always...

[Koey]

...the leaders of the churches before were abusive and controlling of the sheep (congregations). Nothing has changed today...wolves in sheep's clothing waiting to devour the flock... Christian leadership is VERY difficult. I don't know of a single church leader who has NOT abused someone at some time. From the Pope to the simplest country church deacon, abuse of authority is part of our fallen nature.

On the other hand, church leaders may not just sit around and do nothing when there is a time to use their authority. Paul put people out of the church for certain sins and used his authority when it was necessary. It is a very difficult balance. I speak as one who has been on both ends of the abuse meted out by church leaders.

That's why I believe one of the biggest reasons for the Church is as a practice ground for forgiveness of others. Sometimes forgiveness is VERY difficult, yet I can truly say there is not a single person in the world I would not enjoy sitting down with and sharing a beer or cup of tea.

[Mimi]

I think you should not follow a leader till the end. You need to follow your own path, and that could be so different from your leader's path.

I follow Jesus Christ, but there are laws in the Bible that I do not follow. Let's just say that it does not fit with me personality..

[DanielJamesSimon]

I voted yes, but I would like to clarify. If ever an authority requires to do something unBiblical, we must disobey. Otherwise, I believe it is unBiblical to disobey authority. This includes parents, local council, state/county laws, and national government; ultimately, though, God is the measuring stick against which all the aforementioned authorities should be measured.

[Koey]

I think you should not follow a leader till the end. You need to follow your own path, and that could be so different from your leader's path.

I follow Jesus Christ, but there are laws in the Bible that I do not follow. Let's just say that it does not fit with me personality..
I'm with you Mimi. My former Pastor would have loved for me to follow HIS vision and help him build HIS empire, but I could see right through it as just a man's vision. It was too self-centered, to inward-looking. He only prayed for his church, not the others in town. He only spoke of his church, not the Church of Jesus Christ.

[Moros]

Matthew 22:20-21 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

[rhemarob]

If your submitted to a leader (pastor) you should stay with him/her unless they are doing something unscriptural, our churches need more people to submit to leadership, many of us don't want to submit and spend our time going from church to church looking for one that "would just see things our way"

[PaladinGirl]

No, I say follow your own path! You can be a Christian and still follow your own path. What I mean is that you don't have to rigidly follow the doctrines and dogma of your denomination or church or faith group to be obedient in the eyes of God. I know a woman who follows her pastor regardless of what he says. She doesn't realize that this guy is a heretic. He teaches the Word Faith movement which I believe to be heretical. Why should we all be a bunch of Lemmings?

[call-me-dan]

I hate the term "sheep". What makes another person better at discerning God's Will for my life?


If you follow blindly you will fall.

[PaladinGirl]

I hate the term "sheep". What makes another person better at discerning God's Will for my life?


If you follow blindly you will fall.
Hey Dan. I don't know if you are referring to my post about people being a bunch of lemmings or not but I'll respond anyway. I wouldn't say that anything makes another person better at discerning God's will for your life. But honestly, I do what my brain tells me to do. That is why I believe in individualism. I take my own path. I of course use the Bible for guidance but that doesn't mean that I use it as a manual for my life. I say that the Bible is a book of guidelines, not set rules that you are required to follow.

I agree with your statement of saying that if you follow blindly you will fall. That is why I say to do your own thing. I'd rather rely on myself than someone else.

[Neal]

Not sure. As long as they're still following Jesus, we ought to know that we are in the right to follow them... but what if they're just not a good leader? I wonder about that.

[Saint2be27]

I chose the first option...to me the first and 4th go hand in hand.

[Maeyken]

God sets up leaders in positions of authority, but leaders can abuse that privalege. I think GOd should be consulted in any situation where you feel a leader may not be following what God wants. Through prayer, God will let you know whether to support this leader or not.

[Koey]

God sets up leaders in positions of authority, but leaders can abuse that privalege. I think GOd should be consulted in any situation where you feel a leader may not be following what God wants. Through prayer, God will let you know whether to support this leader or not.
So, what do I do then? I follow the Pope, the Patriarch, the Archbishop, the denominational President and the leaders of all the denominations.

Actually, they mostly agree on what's important, so I follow them there. They disagree on the unimportant things like celibacy, alcohol, contraception, dancing, etc. So, I don't follow them there. I basically ignore them when they disagree.

[bobbichan]

I'll follow a leader as long as they are Biblically just in all forms of their life, not just what they talk about on TV or what they tell people. Sometimes there's more than what you see when it comes to leaders... especially in the US. The picture of G.W. Bush giving the devil sign comes to mind, despite all of his talk of anti abortion and anti gay marriages. Sometimes a picture can say more than words and policies.

[sammipher]

Pray about it first

[waterbear]

I don't believe in human leaders, God sure, another human - no way :)

[Angeldove97]

The Lord has given you this leader to help His flock learn about the Word. Make sure that you know the Word by reading it so you can tell if they are a good leader or not and you should always include the Pastor in your prayers!!

[HealingPower]

I have recently been having doubts about my own religion , as angels have come to me during my slumber:sleep: . During these dreams the object of hot wax and a thick^_^ piece of yellow chalk have been prominent. The chalk is often hanging from the ceiling from a string and continuously slaps me in the forehead. I fear that the chalk is now becoming my leader:bow: and have become overcome with self-doubt, that this is the right path to follow. The recent image of the piece of chalk drowning St. Peter in the Sea of Galilee has disturbed me greatly, so I have been seeking guidance through prayer:confused: .

[Hisbygrace]

The Bible does tell us to summit to our leaders, but I believe that God would want us to seek His guidance before we just blindly follow someone. There have been many incidents where people have blindly followed their leaders and lost their lives for it. With that said I must also add that those people didn't lose their lives for Christ, but for the lunatic glory of self made gods.

[Koey]

The Bible does tell us to summit to our leaders, but I believe that God would want us to seek His guidance before we just blindly follow someone. There have been many incidents where people have blindly followed their leaders and lost their lives for it. With that said I must also add that those people didn't lose their lives for Christ, but for the lunatic glory of self made gods.

Have you never read Hebrews 13:17? "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls and will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with sighing-- for that would be harmful to you."


I don't have a problem obeying leaders who submit to biblical authority. My problem is that nobody does. Everyone is doing that which is right in his own eyes, and everyone claims he is doing it with authority from God.

[jcright]

Doesn't the bible tell us to obey the authorities? So long as they aren't going against the bible, then I'd say yes.

[Philled-one]

I believe that we are to work under the autority of a local pastor if we have a ministry in that church. This does not mean following him blindly, but havieng respect for what the is trying to do in the situation. To actively work against a leador or pastor in wrong.

[Saruman]

I pray for God to give me signs for what I am to do and who I am to follow. If God tells me, in some strange way, that I am not to do what someone says, I won't, even if they haven't done anything Biblically wrong.

[Koey]

I believe that we are to work under the autority of a local pastor if we have a ministry in that church. This does not mean following him blindly, but havieng respect for what the is trying to do in the situation. To actively work against a leador or pastor in wrong.
Jesus actively worked against the Pharisees and his strongest condemnation was for these religious leaders. Submit? Yes, but be careful who and what you are submitting to. That's my opinion.

[GodFlute2]

Pray about it and if God says this is the correct path then follow on.

[Amy47]

not too sure

[Followers4christ]

Yes obey them until it goes against God.God Bless

[crusader4peace]

i like to be honest and loyal to a leader, ofcourse someone who follows the principles.

[Brooke4Jesus]

definetly pray about it first... and if thats the person God wants you to fallow.. follow them till he tells you to stop

[ProfessorMom]

This is a very difficult question to answer because there are churches that seem to be preaching God's Word, in that they use the Bible, however, the same "leaders" do not properly exegete, and therefore, may lay on the guilt if questioned.

[Arianna]

i like to make up my own mind

[GlendaJoanne]

God has established a line of authority.. He put the Pastor in place.. (or the government for that matter..)

If you don't agree, you pray.. take it to God.. And if it doesn't resolve in your mind.. you go to your pastor.. you can't go to the elders.. or deacons.. or other church members.. you must talk to your Pastor about your concerns..

If after explaining what is bothering you.. and he has explained his side.. if there is still conflict, you graciously and without animosity, you leave and find a church that better suits your beliefs..

[furry001]

The bible teaches us that we are not to rebuke an elder, but to entreat him as a father. If we disagree with what the elders are doing, then we should talk to them, find out why they are doing what they are doing.

I was in a situation where the elders were doing things that were biblically wrong, and I prayed, and I prayed. Eventually they did something that totally went against Scripture, so I left. They had got to a point where it could not be tolerated any longer.

[lollipop686]

What do you mean by leader? Parents? Boss? Friends? Ect?

[lollipop686]

What do you mean by leader? Parents? Boss? Friends? Teachers? Proffesors?

[lollipop686]

oops. i didn't mean to post that twice. :blush:

[Godslilgurlalways]

Yes, follow until they get out of line in the will of God. He teaches us Obience is better than Sacerfice:)

[Chris Norwood]

Yes, unless there's a reason to believe that they are working against God's will.

[handmaiden97]

Biblically we are to submit to our leaders. Sometimes we dont always agree with them, and it is possiple to t still submit to their leadership and yet lovingly and respectufully challenge them in an area.

If the leaders starts walkign in obvious sin, (not an occasional screw up- we all screw up!!!) then if your loving rebuke does not bring about correction then it may be best to step out form his leadership into anothers. Also if you dont share their vision then why are you there

[*Starlight*]

I voted follow your own path. :) But it's nothing bad to follow leaders if they don't make you do something against your own views or conscience.

[runner_4_jc]

Definately Pray about it first!

[gal4God]

Yes, if they've not done anything Bibically wrong or cotradicts what you believed... or stand for..

[firestar]

God should always be the ultimate leadership you submmit to

[AvgJoe]

Yes, if they've not done anything Bibically wrong, pray about it and pray for your leaders.

[Pogue]

No, they are only human, and elected by people who are only human, and very much capable of making the wrong decisions in the pursuit of money or power.

[BrandonGray]

God is our leader before other people. I think you should pray first

[tigercub]

No, they are only human, and elected by people who are only human, and very much capable of making the wrong decisions in the pursuit of money or power.

Precisely my thoughts on the matter. Not only in church either. It applies to everything in life (obviously applicable not God because he isn't mortal nor elected by humans)

When people blindly follow without question we end up with things like the Holocaust. :sigh:

[godisgr8]

Pray about it.

[ChrisCountryGirl]

Pray about it....

[SecretSanta]

hylo

[firestar]

Follow God, always check the Word to see if what the leader is preaching is solidly scriptural. If it is then follow them, if it's not then don't.

[Chazper]

Church leaders... if they have not violated any God's commandment... then we should support them. But if they do violated and preached contradicting and different doctrines other than what is taught in the bible... then the bible recommend to cast them out.

Political - If you don't like the King, get out from the Kingdom...

[Chazper]

your absolutely right firestar!

[Mattacious]

I voted to pray.

Keep in mind though; even leaders make mistakes.

[barbaraclarke]

The Bible teaches us to submit to our leaders. But what if the leaders are not leading? Or over the course of time we disagree with what their 'vision' is. Now with governments, we exercise this with a vote. In the church scene, voting 'leaders' in or out may not be possible, which could lead to people leaving or splitting the congregation. What are your thoughts?

I believe we should follow our leaders and honour and respect them however, even leaders can be led astray
remember Jones town and other such "cults" which sprang out of the christan scene, God requires us to be wise and to hear and follow His voice

[plum]

seek G-d first in everything...

[MissRebecca38]

pray about it.

[krys4ever]

pray about it first

[4EverBlessed]

I said yes as long as they aren't leading you astray. And as long as God want them leading you. So I'd say anything is subject to change based on the leading of the Holy Spirit.

[NostalgicGranny]

Completed the poll.

[BlessedMommy05]

I think we should pray about who to submit to leaders, and pray for them as they do lead and that they follow God and guied and direct under the Lords supiversion..

[ysl_75]

maybe I will pray 1st ya!

[prayergal]

I think we should definately pray about it first because leaders are human. Imagine during the Holocaust if more people had prayed about it first. May be there would not have been so much death and destruction.

[JPPT1974]

Praying about it as well as
Make sure that they are following the Lord
And His leadership!

[DougLDS]

Option #1

[T3mpt3d]

I'm sorry, but even if someone proves to be a miracle working prophet I wouldn't follow them. The Bible warns of a false Messiah that will work miracles (the Antichrist). All humans are fallible just like me, so while I'll consider their words of wisdom or advice, I won't follow them. We all walk our own path to God in this life.

[TCat]

Since EVERYONE is capable of falling, and ALL have sinned it would be foolish to put our complete trust in any man. We need to seek guidence from the Holy Spirit and have strong accountability partners with whom we can confide and share our concerns and paths with.
I voted Pray first and always

[AdamB]

Never question the bible. The bible is perfect. Follow authority no matter what.

[Koey]

Follow authority no matter what? Your Pentecostal or Catholic pastor might teach you that, but I don't read it in my Bible. Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. Luther could no longer follow the church's leadership because they were not following Christ. Have you seen the video Luther starring Joseph Fiennes? It is just fantastic!

[atruthseeker1]

When guided by the Holy Spirit,you'll know if a leader has true humility. They are Human,like we are. If we can understand (to stand under)that we,both,are teachers AND students the EGO (easing God out)is less likely to make a stand. They,too,should not be influenced by their leaders,especially when it comes to politics.

[atruthseeker1]

We are responsible for ourselves. What are we to do ? Lay down and allow some questionable "authority" lead us to destruction ? Wake Up ! I don't know what's in anothers' heart. How do I know if a person to follow has always followed the Truth ! A misguided brother says to follow authority no matter what. If he'd been a follower of Jim Jones,he'd be a dead duck and a lost one at that! We're human ! Always,question authority,no matter what ! If we don't,we'd better be prepared for the outcome,is all I can say. "Ask and you shall receive" ! Ya gotta stay Strong ! Don't give in ! :preach:

[atruthseeker1]

:cry: I'm saddened by the poll results in this. Makes me wonder ! Now I see why the president got so many Christian votes ! Do we.truly,know this man ? Too many of us sold out to the "authority" of the media,I believe.
Jesus said,"Be still and Know" ! Ya gotta be still long enough to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit ! Know,to listen to that voice ! It will keep all of us in a much better place ! The Voice before authority, Always ! I Love you.everybody !

[atruthseeker1]

I know from my experience that the Catholic church would not,in any way,dictate or say aloud that one should follow "authority". Don't forget that they have been around long before most other churches. Catholics LOVE Jesus,too ! Let's not throw stones ! I Love em All !

[JPPT1974]

We need to follow not just
Jesus but whomever Jesus puts
In our path and position and hope
And pray that they are the people that
Jesus put in charge. Because they are
Put in charge for a reason....HIS reason!

[VictoryNGrace]

I beleive to submit to your leaders unless they tell you some thing that dont sit well with you or that they are doing some thing morally or biblically wrong.. Most and first should pray for them and ask God to direct your steps in whom to submit to.. Some thing I had to learn a long time ago..

[jsimms615]

My leader is Jesus and nobody else. I don't submit to a man or woman in leadership without considering whether what they are saying is biblical.

[DefenderOfJesus]

Hey,

I think for me its important you pray about things, because leaders do get it wrong sometimes.
Leaders sometimes are not at the right place for us to submit to, its a hard question, be sure you pray and get a clear answer!!

In Christ
Kev <>< †

[Kirkhaven]

We are exhorted in the scriptures and by the Church Fathers to follow the leaders of the Church, if they are under the headship of Christ.

[Koey]

Jesus said to submit to the Pharisees, because they sit in the seat of Moses. But, he also said not to do as they do. Likewise I believe it is okay to submit to popes, self-styles "prophets" and even the local sky pilot. But, it can be downright dangerous to submit blindly to everything they say. That's what Nazis did. That's also what Christians did in the Inquisition and the Salem witch trials.

I applaud Catholics who use a condom. I applaud Baptists that have a glass of wine at a restaurant, especially if their pastor is a guest. I applaud Pentecostals who do not shout out in tongues to show off, nor raise their hands on command like puppet on a string.

I applaud any Christian who has a brain and uses it. Faith is not blind obedience to manipulative and faulty church leaders.

[Jade22]

Pray about this first..

[fli]

jsimms615 has it right as far as i'm concerned. Our leader as Christians is Jesus and we should follow him to the end. He does place others above us and we should follow them as long as they continue to follow the correct way.

[christianchick16]

:prayer: Pray about it first. :prayer:

[Koey]

jsimms615 has it right as far as i'm concerned. Our leader as Christians is Jesus and we should follow him to the end. He does place others above us and we should follow them as long as they continue to follow the correct way.
You are sooooooo right! We are so often proud to mention our denominational affiliations, with their rules and dogmas taught by men, ideas that Jesus did NOT teach. So, yes, we must pray for Christian leaders, and show them love, but I tell you, in the end of the day, I'm following Christ and NO MAN.

[LovebirdsFlying]

I said pray about it first. If my leader jumped off a cliff, I wouldn't follow just because he/she is my leader. We are to submit to authority, yes, but when the authority is misused, I don't think we need to follow. The Nazi war crimes trials after World War II answered that question... "I was only following orders" is not a good defense.

[Koey]

I said pray about it first. If my leader jumped off a cliff, I wouldn't follow just because he/she is my leader. We are to submit to authority, yes, but when the authority is misused, I don't think we need to follow. The Nazi war crimes trials after World War II answered that question... "I was only following orders" is not a good defense.
So true! Be encouraged, God loves you so much that he has been with you since the day you were conceived, gave you every heart beat as soon as he started it beating, gave you every single breath and has watched over you lovingly every day of your life.

[tred]

My Leader is Jesus Christ and yes I will follow Him and follow Him and follow Him.

[Koey]

My Leader is Jesus Christ and yes I will follow Him and follow Him and follow Him.
So, what does that exactly mean to you - to follow Christ? I know what it means to me, but I'm interested in what it means to you...

[Sabertooth]

Generally, I would say follow your legitimate leaders while they are your leaders, but not every leadership position is permanent. Landlords only have jurisdiction while you are their tenants. In the same way, God could call us out of one church into another for a variety of legitimate reasons, though having our ears tickled [2Tim. 4:3, 4] is not one of them.

Their is no justification for a church split. If a leadership is heretical, vote with your feet. If it's just a different direction, find a more suitable fellowship or see if such would consider planting one in your area so that a new work has sufficient covering.

[Koey]

Their is no justification for a church split? You may be right on that. I remember a Baptist pastor friend of mine once said that he saw church splits in a positive light, as two churches in the kingdom of heaven instead of just one, and that statistically, two churches are generally larger in numbers than one. So, I guess he saw it as increasing the number of people who would be going to church, which is one positive out of an otherwise negative situation.

[Sabertooth]

Our church raises up pastors and plants new churches which go on to do the same. There are less hurt feelings that way and still a basis for covering. These successive churches have a great deal of autonomy.

[Zalorticus]

i will follow my own path, but i will have Jesus to help me if i stray from it.

[Koey]

Our church raises up pastors and plants new churches which go on to do the same. There are less hurt feelings that way and still a basis for covering. These successive churches have a great deal of autonomy.
I don't like the word "covering" -- it smacks too much of the amateur theology of some churches today -- but I know what you mean. More biblical concepts include mentoring, discipleship and being a faithful sheep in the sheepfold.

[Koey]

i will follow my own path, but i will have Jesus to help me if i stray from it.
You sound just like me. I do recognize the need for faithful shepherds. However, my problem is that most of the ones I have met over the years are too selfish, too bossy, too overly controlling and more concerned with their own empire building than building Christ's kingdom.

[Lake]

Follow my own way

[Koey]

Follow my own way
I would word it differently - follow Christ's own way as best YOU understand it and with the faith God has given YOU, not as some bossy-boots, control-freak church leader wants to shove down your throat, especially when what that "leader" wants you to do violates your conscience.

True leaders are gentle shepherds. People like that I highly respect and honor. The other kind I run from as fast and as far as I can - that includes popes and televangelists.