Sacrafices in the Temple

[simchat_torah]

Do you think that Y'shua replaced all of the sacrafices at the temple, or do you believe that he did not replace certain sacrafices, or do you think that the sacrafices should continue... and his death did not replace any of the Temple's sacrafices?

-Yafet.

[sojeru]

Mashiach Yehshuah did not replace anything however established them! plain and simple.
what more is there to say-

[Henaynei]

This question is kinda like asking, "So, have you quit beating your wife?" and having to choose either Yes or No!!!!:rolleyes:

The question is do the sacrifices replace, did they EVER replace, Yeshua's sacrifice - and the Number One answer is..........

NO:clap:

The Temple sacrifices NEVER did, nor will they ever, un-do what Yeshua's blood does - provide redemptive forgiveness - I.E. - the Temple sacrifices NEVER SAVED, and never could/can save, ANYONE.

Once and for all time means all the before (Yeshua's) time and all the after (Yeshua's) time - not just the after time.

Sacrifices were/are two things:
1) Ordained by G-d as part of the "forever" mitzvot and therefore compliance is a measure of our surrender to Him and our obedience
2) They looked forward in anticipation of, or backward in memorial to, His Unique sacrifice!

They in no way affect what He did but are rather a picture and signpost - always pointing us to Him! And, as with all kavannah mitzvot, obedience in this will serve to bring us closer to Him.

OOPS - there I go shooting off my big mouth again!!:eek:

[simchat_torah]

I think its interesting... the results so far:
Y'shua did not replace the sacrafices: 6
Not sure: 1

the rest: 0


It always fascinates me how this forum is so antithetical of Mj'ism as a whole.

*shrug*

I'll be back later to post some thoughts on the sacrafices. my eyes are about to fall out of my skull right now though.

[Henaynei]

my eyes are about to fall out of my skull right now though.
Henaynei gets out the special duster and pan to help ST with retrieving his eyes.....;)

[simchat_torah]

I'm only going to touch on a couple of passages because I want to leave this up to debate/discussion for the most part. So I will only be making a minimal ammount of comment.

Mattiyahu 5: 23"So if you are standing before the altar in the Temple, offering a sacrifice to G-d, and you suddenly remember that someone has something against you,24leave your sacrifice there beside the altar. Go and be reconciled to that person. Then come and offer your sacrifice to G-d.


Interestingly, Y'shua gave us instruction on how to properly give a sacrafice in the temple.


Acts 21: 19After greetings were exchanged, Paul gave a detailed account of the things God had accomplished among the Gentiles through his ministry.20After hearing this, they praised God. But then they said, "You know, dear brother, how many thousands of Jews have also believed, and they all take the law of Moses very seriously. 21Our Jewish Believers here at Jerusalem have been told that you are teaching all the Jews living in the Gentile world to turn their backs on the laws of Moses. They say that you teach people not to circumcise their children or follow other Jewish customs.22Now what can be done? For they will certainly hear that you have come.23"Here's our suggestion. We have four men here who have taken a vow and are preparing to shave their heads.24Go with them to the Temple and join them in the purification ceremony, and pay for them to have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that the rumors are all false and that you yourself observe the Jewish laws. 25"As for the Gentile Believers, all we ask of them is what we already told them in a letter: They should not eat food offered to idols, nor consume blood, nor eat meat from strangled animals, and they should stay away from all sexual immorality."
26So Paul agreed to their request, and the next day he went through the purification ritual with the men and went to the Temple. Then he publicly announced the date when their vows would end and sacrifices would be offered for each of them.



This passage is chock full of insights...
First, we have Sh'aul coming home to Jerusalem and finding out falsely that it has been said he taught against Torah observance. In an effort to demolish these false rumors, he publically posts that not only does he make sacrafices in the Temple but pays for others as well... thus demonstrating physically his observance.

Again, out of these two passages alone I could have posted pages of comments. But I'm going to step back and open it up for discussion.

What do these two passages mean to us today as Torah Observant follwers of Y'shua?

shalom,
Yafet.

[BenTsion]

I believe the sin offerings were a shadow of Yeshua's everlasting sacrifice. I don't
know if 'substitute' is the best term. In fact, I think we Messianic Jews are a little bit
weary of such word. It reminds us of the horrors of 'Replacement Theology'. I'd say
there's no longer a need to make such offerings since we have forgiveness of sins through the ultimate sacrifice. But sin offerings were not the ONLY sacrifices mentioned in the Torah. Therefore, how could we possibly say that the other ones have been "abolished" (another word Messianic Jews hate - LOL)

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion

PS: Simchat_Torah: still waiting for your e-mail. You must have forgotten me! :cry:

[simchat_torah]

oy! I did... but my life has been turned upside down lately.

see: prayer thread.

[simchat_torah]

I guess I should ask everyone to be a bit patient with me the next couple of days... at least until this Shabbat.

I don't really want to burden everyone with all that is going on, but it's a lot... I'm quite stressed out right now.
thanks,
yafet.

[BenTsion]

Simchat_torah,
Been there before... it's not an easy thing... I'll be including you in my daily prayers!

Shalom!

Ben Tsion