Jane Fonda

[Underdog77]

I didn't know where to put this so hopefully this is good or maybe a mod can move it to where it will be most effective. But we do need to circulate this as much as possible if we don't want the wrong to be awarded. Copy this and send this out.


Subject: WE ARE HONORING A TRAITOR?






Let this be known to the people of our great Nation.



This is for all the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.



Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century."



Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot.


The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.

In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton."


Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received.

He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was dragged away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk.



In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton.


From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action."

His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.

His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived.

Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand.



When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"



Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.


She took them all without missing a beat.

At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers.



Three men died from the subsequent beatings.



Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years.

I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi.

My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.)



We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda.

I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient."



Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released.

I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV.



She did not answer me.


This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women."

Lest we forget..." 100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots.

There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them.





It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget.

RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF
716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of Maintenance
DSN: 875-6431
COMM: 883-6343




PLEASE Tell your Family and friends about Hanoi Jane so

they will know she has American POW blood on her hands.



We certainly don't want to honor a Traitor!

[rhemarob]

I don't like the things she did but as she is now a Christian should we hold her past against her?

I'm glad my past is not held against me.
Just a thought,
Blessings, Rob

[rainbowprism]

Rhema I agree with you about holding things against someone but the question of honoring someone else can be different. David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam, is now a christian too but I don't see how I could vote to honor him as one of the men of the century though...

[rhemarob]

Rhema I agree with you about holding things against someone but the question of honoring someone else can be different. David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam, is now a christian too but I don't see how I could vote to honor him as one of the men of the century though...
Good point, honoring her would not be appropriate, I guess I didn't read the post thoroughly enough before commenting.

[Chloe~]

Are u sure she is a Christian, btw... I was just wondering, because I saw her on TV not long ago and... well, she didn't sound Christian to me...

But I don't think she should be judged, either way. Only God is the Judge.

[BarbB]

Are u sure she is a Christian, btw... I was just wondering, because I saw her on TV not long ago and... well, she didn't sound Christian to me...

But I don't think she should be judged, either way. Only God is the Judge.

She was saved before the end of her marriage to Ted Turner, who didn't like it and divorced her! What a nice man he is! :sick: She is currently mixed up in some sort of feminist group, so she may be backslidden. :sigh:

[Crispie]

I saw a pic of her and kerry protesting...i think it was vietnam war? Ah forgot what they were protesting, back when Kerry was younger lol.

[Plan 9]

The source of the OP's information about Jane Fonda is an e-mail which has been circulating for quite a long time in various froms, and it mixes fact with fiction.

You can find the the e-mail, with an accompanying article here at Snopes, an urban legend site:
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Below I've copied and pasted a short section taken from the article:

[b]..."The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above -- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result -- are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."

The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and is severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him.

The story about a POW forced to kneel on rocky ground while holding a piece of steel rebar in his outstretched arms is true, though. That account comes from Michael Benge, a civilian advisor captured by the Viet Cong in 1968 and held as a POW for 5 years. His original statement, titled "Shame on Jane," was published in April by the Advocacy and Intelligence Network for POWs and MIAs.

The unknown author of the "Hanoi Jane" e-mail appears to have picked up Benge's story on-line and combined it with fabricated tales to create the forwarded text. Some versions now circulate with Benge's name listed; others quote his statement anonymously..."

As you can see Benge's name has been altered to Sampson, and the other two incidents didn't occur at all.

The article also discusses what treasonous acts have consisted of in the past, and whether her Vietnam war protests constitute that.

As far as her being chosen as one of the century's greatest women, she may very well qualify for that honor for the at least one reason: she is one of the very finest actresses to come along in my lifetime.

[Plan 9]

Rhema I agree with you about holding things against someone but the question of honoring someone else can be different. David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam, is now a christian too but I don't see how I could vote to honor him as one of the men of the century though...


Whatever foolish things Ms. Fonda may have done in her youth, they most certainly never included serial murders commited with a Bulldog .45.

[rainbowprism]

Whatever foolish things Ms. Fonda may have done in her youth, they most certainly never included serial murders commited with a Bulldog .45.

Did I say that?

What I did say was that while we are certainly all forgiven, there is still a matter of personal record for whether or not one would be deserving of being honored as a 'great' of the century. Would I be gracious to her? Yes. Would I want to give her that momentous honor with that track record. No.

[Plan 9]

I saw a pic of her and kerry protesting...i think it was vietnam war? Ah forgot what they were protesting, back when Kerry was younger lol.

erm...Crispie, if this is the photo you saw, it's a fake.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

There's also a faked picture of Ms. Fonda and Mr. Kerry sitting together at an Anti-Vietnam war rally; they were both present, but she was on the platform speaking, and he was seated, listening.

[Suffolk Sean]

Let us wonder that if Hitler got saved, could he be honored for pulling Germany out of a depression?

[Plan 9]

Let us wonder that if Hitler got saved, could he be honored for pulling Germany out of a depression?

Sean, not only is Ms. Fonda not responsible for the cruel deaths of at least thirteen million people, or a serial killer, but the e-mail simply isn't true.
I have no idea whether she's been saved or not, but I did happen to be around at the time, and have kept up reasonably well since, and whatever foolish things she may have said and done when she was young, I don't believe it was ever her intent to harm anyone. I'm thinkin' maybe you had to be there to understand? :scratch:
In any case, she led a full a life before being "Hanoi Jane" and has led one afterward, and he accomplishments as an actress and the careful planning and carrying out of Turner's movie channel programming would certainly make her the envy of many, and for good reason.

[Suffolk Sean]

Sean, not only is Ms. Fonda not responsible for the cruel deaths of at least thirteen million people, or a serial killer, but the e-mail simply isn't true.
I have no idea whether she's been saved or not, but I did happen to be around at the time, and have kept up reasonably well since, and whatever foolish things she may have said and done when she was young, I don't believe it was ever her intent to harm anyone. I'm thinkin' maybe you had to be there to understand? :scratch:
In any case, she led a full a life before being "Hanoi Jane" and has led one afterward, and he accomplishments as an actress and the careful planning and carrying out of Turner's movie channel programming would certainly make her the envy of many, and for good reason.I was using hyperbole to prove a point. That being, sometimes our actions are shadowed by our "youthful indiscretions" whether they be youthful or otherwise.

Many dislike her for many reasons including the Hanoi Jane incidents and her ongoing political stance. The prospect of someone being honored that has such a dubious past is disconcerting to many. I personally don't give a rip about her but admit she is a fine actress.

I do recall when she got saved and the rife it caused with Ted..

addendum:

I know the email is not true, I immediatly recognized the "Urban Legand" factor of it. Still Ms. Fonda has many detractors and they have some good reasons to detract...

[Plan 9]

I was using hyperbole to prove a point. That being, sometimes our actions are shadowed by our "youthful indiscretions" whether they be youthful or otherwise.

I can't help but feel that comparing her with David Berkowitz was already plenty of hyperbole, but that's just my opinion, of course.

Many dislike her for many reasons including the Hanoi Jane incidents and her ongoing political stance.

Yes, I know what she did still upsets many people.
Her ongoing political stance? Being a liberal Democrat wasn't a hanging offence last time I checked.

The prospect of someone being honored that has such a dubious past is disconcerting to many. I personally don't give a rip about her but admit she is a fine actress.

An awful lot of people of my generation and a bit older have a dubious past then. Why single her out?
Yes, she is a fine actress and she's from a distinguished acting family.

I do recall when she got saved and the rife it caused with Ted..

that's interesting. I read some things which lead me to believe it might be true, but nothing I could verify.

addendum:

I know the email is not true, I immediatly recognized the "Urban Legand" factor of it. Still Ms. Fonda has many detractors and they have some good reasons to detract...

Well, Sean...I have many detractors and they have their reasons, too. Still, as a private individual, I possess something which Ms. Fonda doesn't: the good fortune to be able to live my past down.

Were you aware that long before any of the events which you've catagorized as "dubious" took place, Ms. Fonda was arrested at the airport and booked for trying to take a plane while in possession of perfectly legitimate prescription medicines? The people who did that injustice to her have had no trouble whatsoever living down that miscarriage of justice, which occured merely because she looked to them like a "hippie". That wasn't a fun time to be young for many of us, Sean.

[Suffolk Sean]

Well, Sean...I have many detractors and they have their reasons, too. Still, as a private individual, I possess something which Ms. Fonda doesn't: the good fortune to be able to live my past down.
Hehe, good for you, and me, because I'm aghast at my past. ;)

[Entertaining_Angels]

I'm torn here. I served in the military and while I am much too young to have been in Vietnam, I served with many men who were there. I've heard first-hand tales of what Jane Fonda did to demoralize our troops but also feel that if God can forgive, we should certainly be able to forgive.

However, I also subscribe to the 'you can sit in a henhouse all day long and cluck all you want but it won't make you a chicken' theory. By their fruits they'll be known. I've yet to hear Ms. Fonda apologize for what she did and I know that she is still very active in the pro-abortion movement and donates large amounts of money to those groups. I truly hope she is saved and loves the Lord with all her heart but, as for me, I don't think she deserves any honors or awards here especially given her lack of public regret and her current activities. If she is saved, she'll receive those honors in Heaven.

God bless!

[Plan 9]

Hehe, good for you, and me, because I'm aghast at my past. ;)

http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Emoticons/icon_rotfl.gif http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Emoticons/icon_rotfl.gif http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Emoticons/icon_rotfl.gif http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Emoticons/icon_rotfl.gif http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Emoticons/icon_rotfl.gif

I'm so thankful that I wasn't drinking from my Dr. Pepper when I read this! :doh:

pigeons in the grass alas aghast at my past alas overcast alas lost at my post almost


You know, I couldn't bring myself to see the film Hair because my memories of the Vietnam war era were so intense. A friend kept urging me. "Fer!", She'd say. "It has dancing police horses in it! You gotta see it!"
Well, I really wanted to see those dancing poclice horses, so I got up the nerve...about ten years after it came out..and it was retro when it was released. Now, I've seen it six or seven times...and I ball like a baby every single time.

[Plan 9]

I'm torn here. I served in the military and while I am much too young to have been in Vietnam, I served with many men who were there. I've heard first-hand tales of what Jane Fonda did to demoralize our troops but also feel that if God can forgive, we should certainly be able to forgive.

First of all, thank you for serving! I admire you very much for doing that and believe that we who stay at home can never repay you...and aren't even trying very hard with today's GI Bill. Still I am grateful, for what little that's worth. :bow:

This is only my opinion, but I feel that younger people just think this country's divided now, when actually we're all handling ourselves pretty well, considering the circumstances. The Vietnam era was a tough one for everyone; it had a terribly divisive effect on us, and a lot of it was due to the draft and men's inability to vote until they were 21.

I don't know how much Ms. Fonda herself actually demoralized our troops; I think she was a symbol for every person in the United States who treated our servicemen with extreme disrepect. Even then, people tended to think to themselves, "She just an actor; what does she know", much as I do now
when I listen to Billy Baldwin being interviewed.
My cousin chose the ROTC program and he got yelled at a lot by other college students when he was doing the ROTC thing.
This was confusing behavior for me: first everyone demonstrates so our boys won't die anymore and then they ruthlesssly vebally harrass them when they return. I never did understand that.
Since my cousin and I are about the same age and I was the supposed "hippie" and he was the supposed "suit", we talk it over a lot. Even at the time, I could see both points of view, and it made my brain hurt. Now my brain hurts even more when we discuss it. LOL
He has a difficult time enjoying Jane Fonda's films because of the things she said then; he simply can't forget that's Jane Fonda, which is the kiss of death when we watch a film.
I also have to put it out of my mind to enjoy a film of hers, but I succeed in doing this by putting the whole time period out of my mind. As the two of us get older, film buffs that we are, we often find ourselves wishing that no actor will ever express what my cousin calls "goofy" views on serious subjects..

However, I also subscribe to the 'you can sit in a henhouse all day long and cluck all you want but it won't make you a chicken' theory. By their fruits they'll be known. I've yet to hear Ms. Fonda apologize for what she did

I have read at least twice that she did apologize on some interview show, but not vehemently enough. I guess I'll have to look that up now? :doh:

and I know that she is still very active in the pro-abortion movement and donates large amounts of money to those groups.

The bizarre thing that I have yet to convince anyone of is that pro-abortion people are quite sincere in not seeing fetuses as actual human beings. I'm not pro-abortion, and would never ever encourage anyone to get one, and I've done fairly well at talking persuasively to women with a variety of beliefs on th subject about partial birth abortion, which no woman I talk to personally can imagine as anything but murder, and also can find no actual theraputive use for, by any standard.

I truly hope she is saved and loves the Lord with all her heart

I sure hope it's true that she is, and does; God is infinitely better at convincing us to change our beliefs and walk than any mere individual, however we may manage to help him, can ever be.

but, as for me, I don't think she deserves any honors or awards here especially given her lack of public regret and her current activities. If she is saved, she'll receive those honors in Heaven.

I would think this is true of all of us to a great degree, but I wouldn't mind seeing her place among a hundred women based on her body of work. I don't really know what achievements the award is based on, and am hoping that someone here is better informed than I.
I remember when Time magazines "Man of the Year" award went to Max Headroom; not the actor who played him, but to Max Headroom himself, a person who didn't exist, so these things tend to get a bit silly, and when I watch one of these award shows, I usually sit watching with my mouth ajar .
I'm not even a fan of the Acadamy Awards since they began giving the "Best Picture" award to films without even nominating the male and female leads.
That's such a total absurdity that I don't expect much from any award now, in terms of making sense.

God bless you, Orgal!

and you, too, Sean! You've both been very patient with me, a mere visitor, and a pretty darn chatty one today. I just noticed that. :blush:

[Entertaining_Angels]

Thank you so much. My husband still serves in the USAR and I am very proud of him for all he has done.

Anyhow, I agree with you and don't think troops were demoralized quite as much while serving. Funny thing, when you are actually on a mission, what is happening at 'home' seems a world away. I suspect the guys I know became angry at her after they returned home. She really became a scapegoat (and I'm not so sure I have a problem with that).

I would really like to hear about those apologies if you find them. I hadn't heard she apologized and would like to hear what she said.

Oh, and believe it or not, I do know what you are saying about pro-life and pro-choice 'Christians'. I did some work with a CPC. I believe the Lord works on the hearts of those who turn to Him. Just like with addictions. Just because you become a new believer does not mean you are going to give up your drug, alcohol, nicotine addictions immediately. However, as you grow, God places those things on your heart and you change. I truly believe as Christians grow, they place more value on God's creations.

Anyhow, thank you. I am new to the site myself and not sure if I'll stick around but trying it out for a few days. I'm not sure that I'm ready for some aspects of the site.

God bless.

[Crispie]

No, it wasnt that pic. I think its on ScaryKerry.com or something like that. Shows Jane fonda at a protest, and in the background of tons of people is kerrys face.

[rainbowprism]

nevermind...

[Crispie]

http://scaryjohnkerry.com/vietnam.htm

there it is!

[Plan 9]

Thank you so much. My husband still serves in the USAR and I am very proud of him for all he has done.

Please repeat what I said to you to him, as well? My Father was in the Army during WWII, and my cousin during Vietnam. Neither served in the battlefield, but instead ended up right where their skills would be most useful. People love to say that the opposite is true, but it doesn't seem that way to me at all. Both were First Lieutenants, and now I have a younger first cousin once removed in the Navy. These are all men I have very good reasons to admire, and I had thought of being a Army Chaplain, but was injured on the job, and that was the end of that. Later, hospital chaplain looked good, but I just kept getting worse, so I've run out of ideas. LOL

Anyhow, I agree with you and don't think troops were demoralized quite as much while serving. Funny thing, when you are actually on a mission, what is happening at 'home' seems a world away. I suspect the guys I know became angry at her after they returned home.

Became angry not just at her; they had so many choices of incredibly hostile people to be angry with. It was horrible, OreGal!

She really became a scapegoat (and I'm not so sure I have a problem with that).

I don't have a problem with it, either; she was vocal and could get quite a hearing becuase she was famous enough, and well-to-do enough to get one.
She could also go over to Vietnam, make a horse's patootie of herself with a camera crew to follow her around. I have no doubt others would have done the same thing, and perhaps behaved even more badly if they could have, but that opportunity wasn't open to them. So she stood for all.
I just question whether she needs to be scapegoated for life, and if it's good for her or us to continue to do it. I hear that more and more Vietnam vets are returning to Vietnam and spending time with their former enemies. I have an incredible magazine article written by a vet who did that. I'll type the whole darned thing out for you...if you're in no real rush to read it. ;)
That seems to me to be the best way to go, although Imay not know what I'm talking about; I just know that it is best for me to seek some reconcilliation? (what's the right word?) in regard to what must be relatively small traumatizing events in my past, compared to being on the front lines in Vietnam.

I would really like to hear about those apologies if you find them. I hadn't heard she apologized and would like to hear what she said.

I wish I were better at searching on non-Star Trek subjects, but I'd like to know, too. If I found it references to it twice, I should be able to chase something down, and I'm not bad at separating the wheat from the chaff...yet they say you never use anything you learned in school. ;)

Oh, and believe it or not, I do know what you are saying about pro-life and pro-choice 'Christians'. I did some work with a CPC.

What a relief! Somehow we're not getting our message across, and somrtimes I wish someof us could get together and talk about that..but gently and kindly, in order to gain needed insight. I know from one friend's horrible personal experiences some mistaken approaches, because her odious boyfriend, and later, husband would just leave her at the door of a clinic to cross a picket line whenever she began to hemorrage and lose each baby.
Another friend of mine had to cross a picket line every day to go to work, but she had nothing whatever to do with the abortion part; she did counseling in which abortion never even came up, and she told them she sould quit if she was ever made to do anything in that area (and did) but the folks picketing didn't know that.
Other Christians here might have things to share of which I'm ignorant, and which would help me better talk to people, although I mostly "see" people only on the internet now.

I believe the Lord works on the hearts of those who turn to Him. Just like with addictions. Just because you become a new believer does not mean you are going to give up your drug, alcohol, nicotine addictions immediately. However, as you grow, God places those things on your heart and you change. I truly believe as Christians grow, they place more value on God's creations.

I couldn't agree more! It can seem like a slow process to others while you feel you're moving at light speed. LOL
He who began a good work in us will complete it, even when we don't know how to cooperate in it at first, even if all we can do at first is just sorta hold still for him while he works? LOL
I was one of the freaks saved during the Jesus Movement of the Sixties and Seventies, and what he did for me was nothing short of miraculous, and this was true for most Jesus freaks I knew; all of us had th nuttiest testimonies imaginable.

Anyhow, thank you. I am new to the site myself and not sure if I'll stick around but trying it out for a few days. I'm not sure that I'm ready for some aspects of the site.

I know I'm being a bit selfish, but I do hope you'll stick around! *wags tail hopefully and stares at OrGal with soft bi-eyes*

God bless.

I think he already has. ;)

[Plan 9]

No, it wasnt that pic. I think its on ScaryKerry.com or something like that. Shows Jane fonda at a protest, and in the background of tons of people is kerrys face.

My Netscape browser can't manage to download the plugin so I can look at it, Crispie, but, from what I've read and the faked pics I've seen, that should be the real photo. He did attend a a protest rally at which she was speaking, but he was one of a very large crowd. As I understand it, he was a Vietnam vet who had returned, and his experience had not made him happy that we were there, although I don't know the details of why he felt that way. I do know there were a number of Vietnam vets who did and attended rallies, and she happened to be speaking at this one, so they were both there but didn't know each other.

Thanks for finding the pic! I'm going to give it a third try in a few minutes. I'd really like to see it, and I'd also like to be sure that I'm not steering you wrong on this. :)

Crispie, have you seen the Pulizer Prize winning photo of the Vietnam vet, Eddie Robinson, at the Fouth of July Parade?

[BarbB]

....

I'm so thankful that I wasn't drinking from my Dr. Pepper when I read this! :doh:

pigeons in the grass alas aghast at my past alas overcast alas lost at my post almost


You know, I couldn't bring myself to see the film Hair because my memories of the Vietnam war era were so intense. A friend kept urging me. "Fer!", She'd say. "It has dancing police horses in it! You gotta see it!"
Well, I really wanted to see those dancing poclice horses, so I got up the nerve...about ten years after it came out..and it was retro when it was released. Now, I've seen it six or seven times...and I ball like a baby every single time.

Plan 9 - I was going to congratulate you on your insightful posts, but I was soooo aghast that you actually drink Dr. Pepper, rather than use it as a skin astringent that I lost my train of thought! It derails at the most inopportune times. Ha ha ha! :hug:

Also, "Hair" reminds me of the Summer of 1969 which I spent in Boston on Comm Ave. in a tiny two bedroom apartment with 3 roommates going from bar to bar for Ladies Nights. Our favorite bar was one where a darling guy sang all the music from Hair on his accoustical guitar. If I recall rightly, champagne was also a quarter a glass for the "ladies". :D

[Crispie]

Well, if the plugin doesnt work you could always try IE or Firefox

[bravado]

I serve my nation every day in the military. I love my country -- the USA!

But... I do not support the judgement of others even if they've made a mistake and have done what many people would consider a terrible, terrible deed costing the lives of many honorable American men and women.

We, as defenders of this bold nation, only ask for your support and help in our recovery from behind enemy territory in peacetime or in wartime. And your support upon our return for defending a wonderful nation with grateful freedoms.

V/R

:wave:

[SpiritPsalmist]

http://www.mardigrasoutlet.com/_images/products/AP17013-T.jpg (http://www.mardigrasoutlet.com/details.asp?prodID=449) Mod Hat

Nough said! Subject closed.