Our Locked Door

[CaDan]

Please see
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8833268&postcount=1

I don't like our locked door. It seems very wrong to me to require intellectual assent to a collection of Fourth Century Neo-Platonist speculations and assertions in order to join our koinonia.

It's all about the ice cream.

[CaDan]

Upon careful consideration, I have concluded I cannot in good conscience participate in the "Liberal Churches" forum as currently configured. I cannot be in a church, even a virtual one, that locks its doors.

"My house shall be called a house of prayer for all people."

As currently configured, "Liberal Churches" is not "for all people."

I considered eliminating my "Christian" icon as well, but, as Paul wrote, "I am not ashamed of the gospel." I will keep the icon, both as a reminder and sign of the gospel; and as a reminder that the world will hold me responsible for the things done under that sign.

[seebs]

Understood. You bang on it from that side, I'll bang on it from this side, and perhaps once again we will find that the gate does not prevail against the Gospel.

[datan]

if you open the doors, you'll have the same crowd that was in LT coming over here as well.
then you might as well call this LT.

[Toney]

I imagine that there is a lot of history at play here of which I know nothing. But I would like to make a couple of naive observations, if I may.

First, this is not a church. While I am not unsympathetic to the points being made about inclusivity, and agree in principle with these points, I understand the need for rules as to who may and may not debate on LC. These rules are for our protection and useful.

Secondly, I believe liberal Christian perspectives are sorely needed at CF and would hate to see one of our more eloquent and articulate spokespersons strike tent and leave camp. I hope you will reconsider, CaDan!

Thirdly, it is just to soon for this polemic against CF -- our Forum isn't a day old. If the atheist(s) on LT wish to come here to ask questions, they are more than welcome to do so as I understand the rules. To debate Christians, liberal ones no less, in their newly acquired safe haven would be unmannered.

Surely there are better fights.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

if you open the doors, you'll have the same crowd that was in LT coming over here as well.
then you might as well call this LT.
I agree. Being a liberal church doesn't mean letting the place be overrun by people who don't believe in the basics of Christianity. I think it is more about loving all Christians, regardless if they share the same views of secondary issues as you. If you become too liberal, you can lose the focus on Christ altogether, and not be a Christian church anymore, but a fellowship club with no purpose, creed, or even eternal security :o

[seebs]

There's two separate issues.

1. Whether people may attack liberals here.
2. Whether non-liberals, and indeed non-Christians, may visit, socialize, and ask questions.

[Toney]

Thirdly, it is just to soon for this polemic against CF -- our Forum isn't a day old. If the atheist(s) on LT wish to come here to ask questions, they are more than welcome to do so as I understand the rules.

I stand corrected. However, it seems that the LT Forum serves this purpose and therefore hold to my objection to changing Rule 6.

I doubt that the creation of this Forum was easy for Erwin. I strongly advise against forcing this issue lest we be considered pushy ingrates.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

There's two separate issues.

1. Whether people may attack liberals here.
2. Whether non-liberals, and indeed non-Christians, may visit, socialize, and ask questions.
As in other forums, people can post questions, just not debate. As for non-Christians, can't they ask questions in Liberal Theology? (Not familiar with that forum though)

[seebs]

As in other forums, people can post questions, just not debate. As for non-Christians, can't they ask questions in Liberal Theology? (Not familiar with that forum though)

They can... But in that forum, they can expect to be personally attacked and harassed, and there is no barrier to non-liberals fighting with, attacking, disrupting...

The purpose of the Congregation forums is mostly fellowship for the "in" crowd... Obviously, for the liberals, the "in" crowd normally includes "anyone who wants to come by and ask".

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Ok, I think I am missing the problem :P

[seebs]

Ok, I think I am missing the problem :P

Okay, imagine a user who would like to ask a question about liberal Christianity. This user does not want to hear answers about conservative Christianity.

Unless this user is a Christian of some sort, there is nowhere on this site for those questions to be answered. The user can't post here (because it's a Christians-only forum), but a question asked in Liberal Theology will reliably be sidetracked by willfully disruptive posters out to "show the error" of liberal beliefs. So, the user is sort of in trouble.

[Polycarp1]

Something I read earlier suggests that Erwin made this an Open forum, where all members can post. I don't know the truth of that for sure -- is there an easy way to check?

If that's not the case, here's a suggestion:

A lady who uses the name debiwebi who has been fairly inactive lately used to serve as a conduit. She was a recent convert to Catholicism who enjoyed the atmosphere of the old GA, and would work in threads on Catholic questions, taking the questions of non-Christians, where she didn't herself know the answer, and posting to a thread she started in OBOB, relaying the answers she got there back to GA.

If members with time on their hands felt it appropriate to do just that with relation to questions from non-Christians for the LC contingent, that would be terrific.

And, of course, we have the "Questions from Non-Christians" forum now, which wasn't there before. It wouldn't hurt if the regulars here (and in other congregation forums) browsed that from time to time to try to help field answers to questions posted there.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Okay, imagine a user who would like to ask a question about liberal Christianity. This user does not want to hear answers about conservative Christianity.

Unless this user is a Christian of some sort, there is nowhere on this site for those questions to be answered. The user can't post here (because it's a Christians-only forum), but a question asked in Liberal Theology will reliably be sidetracked by willfully disruptive posters out to "show the error" of liberal beliefs. So, the user is sort of in trouble.
Well, just because someone is liberal doesn't mean they will have totally different theology. In the Outreach forum, I see pretty much all sides covered. Karl gets in there sometimes as well.

[Toney]

And, of course, we have the "Questions from Non-Christians" forum now, which wasn't there before. It wouldn't hurt if the regulars here (and in other congregation forums) browsed that from time to time to try to help field answers to questions posted there.

I read some of that forum last night while waiting for ours to open. I came across an OP titled "Save Me" and posted. So did Seebs. The author was delighted to read something other than the standard banal offering.

This is a non-problem that potentially could derail this Forum.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I read some of that forum last night while waiting for ours to open. I came across an OP titled, "Save Me" and posted. So did Seebs.
I think if we all continue to post in Outreach, then every angle could be covered. We have the means, we must use them!

[seebs]

I mostly agree that this can be addressed. I'd just like to see more opportunities for folks to visit with us without being derailed...

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I mostly agree that this can be addressed. I'd just like to see more opportunities for folks to visit with us without being derailed...
I agree as well. But theory and practice are very different. This would be taken advantage of, and would require some serious moderating.

[elanor]

I doubt that the creation of this Forum was easy for Erwin. I strongly advise against forcing this issue lest we be considered pushy ingrates.Absolutely right!!

Look, folks, the whole reason I have campaigned for this forum is that there just isn't anywhere else on the board where we can find some respite from the onslaught of posts by those who disagree with us (at best) and attack us (at worst). Needing some place where we can encourage each other, discuss our faith, and maybe share our concerns does NOT mean that we are being exclusionary. It just means we need a breather from the controversy once in awhile. Goodness, Jesus Himself recognized the validity of taking time apart from the crowds sometimes, either alone or only with His disciples. Now, I have no plans of isolating in here. But I think this forum will be a blessing to those of us who feel the need for a place where we can talk without having our faith questioned and attacked.

Erwin has been gracious to create this forum AND leave the Liberal Theology forum for open discussion. Let's use them both for their intended purposes.

[Treasure the Questions]

CaDan, while I admire your sentiment, i'm not sure it should stop you posting here. As has been said this is not a church, it's a safe pace on this website for battle weary Liberals to have fellowhip and perhaps some balm for their wounds. I'm sure all the things that worry you can be sorted out one way or another and some good suggestions have already been made.

Internet discussion boards have to have some restrictions imposed on them or they wouldn't work.

Karin

[redheadmt]

I just wanted to add that when I posted the "Help! I'm a Heathen" post in LT, I felt less attacked there than I do in "real life". To me, the negative responses were really light weight compared to the stuff that has been said to me by my in-laws and my husband's friends.

[seebs]

I just wanted to add that when I posted the "Help! I'm a Heathen" post in LT, I felt less attacked there than I do in "real life". To me, the negative responses were really light weight compared to the stuff that has been said to me by my in-laws and my husband's friends.

Yeah. We're sorta spoiled, we get used to people actually treating us like human beings. :)

[CaDan]

I need to explain that my non-participation in this forum is NOT a protest or an attempt to get the rules changed. It is a matter of personal conscience that I do not ask or expect anyone else to follow.

I'm a big boy--I can handle the troublemakers in LT.

[Polycarp1]

Well, CaDan, I can only honor your standing by your conscience. But as a matter of brotherhood, I wish you could see your way clear to reconsider -- those of us who belong here need the thoughtful, compassionate sort of stuff that your posts are often loaded with. So, do what the Lord leads you to do -- but try to take that feeling into account too.

[Toney]

Well, CaDan, I can only honor your standing by your conscience. But as a matter of brotherhood, I wish you could see your way clear to reconsider -- those of us who belong here need the thoughtful, compassionate sort of stuff that your posts are often loaded with. So, do what the Lord leads you to do -- but try to take that feeling into account too.

Ditto.

[CaDan]

I had been under the misapprehension that Rule 6 prevented non-Nicean Christians from even reading this forum. I experimentally set my faith to "agnostic" and was able to read, but not post.

I don't really like that, but I have thought of a way to deal with it.

I will accept private messages from those who would like to post in this forum but are prevented from doing so. IN MY SOLE DISCRETION, I will forward those posts to the appropriate threads as identified by the sender. I will not edit the posts - it's all or nothing.

I agree to be responsible for any posts I make pursuant to this policy, although I will identify the original sender. If I receive a self-edit request for any of them, I will simply delete the entire post rather than edit it.

Anyone who wishes to take advantage of this must convince me they wish to post in good faith, but are prevented from doing so. I may revoke this policy at any time. You will not receive any notice of whether or not I have forwarded the message. All rights reserved. Your mileage may vary.

Anyone wising to take advantage of this offer, please put SAMIZDAT in the title of any such private message.

[Toney]

There is a God!

CaDan, thank you! We can now have our ice cream and eat it too.

[seebs]

That's an excellent policy. Me too!

[Polycarp1]

Count me in -- though my PM box has a tendency to get full, so if you cannot PM me, that's why.

[Treasure the Questions]

I'm also glad you've reconsidered, CaDan. I think you'll have some interesting things to add to the discussions here, going by the rest of your posts.

Karin

[Erwin]

Tell you what, I can do 1 better. I can make ONE thread in this forum that I will sticky, in which non-Christians can post in, ask questions, fellowship etc. Only that 1 thread, mind you.

We can call it the window through the locked door of this forum.

I'll do it this weekend - I'm busy the rest of the week. :)

[seebs]

That is a very kind thing. Perhaps the same should go for other Congregation forums?

If we make the thread, will you do the sticky and the special magic?

[CaDan]

Can we call it "Dear Libby"? :D

[McCravey]

Upon careful consideration, I have concluded I cannot in good conscience participate in the "Liberal Churches" forum as currently configured. I cannot be in a church, even a virtual one, that locks its doors.

"My house shall be called a house of prayer for all people."

As currently configured, "Liberal Churches" is not "for all people."

I considered eliminating my "Christian" icon as well, but, as Paul wrote, "I am not ashamed of the gospel." I will keep the icon, both as a reminder and sign of the gospel; and as a reminder that the world will hold me responsible for the things done under that sign.

Actually this meets every definition of a church except that we are not within 10 feet of each other....so I would like to consider it a church (or how about Sunday School Class...hmmmm)

[McCravey]

Tell you what, I can do 1 better. I can make ONE thread in this forum that I will sticky, in which non-Christians can post in, ask questions, fellowship etc. Only that 1 thread, mind you.

We can call it the window through the locked door of this forum.

I'll do it this weekend - I'm busy the rest of the week. :)

Hooray!!!!!

You are a very good guy...Erwin.....(becoming a little liberal though...watch out!!)

[McCravey]

Actually this meets every definition of a church except that we are not within 10 feet of each other....so I would like to consider it a church (or how about Sunday School Class...hmmmm)

OOOOOPS I was out of the flow!....sorry

[GreenPartyVoter]

Call me crazy, but I like having two forums for Liberals. LT as a free-for-all and this one, where we can enjoy some serenity in our fellowship. :)

(And if there are folks who post in LT who aren't "allowed" here because they don't fit the CF idea of a liberal Christian (and boy, am I ever on the line there myself *l*) but they want to hang out with us, then we need to make sure they can find the Cat house. (Assuming it's still around. I haven't gone looking for it in ages.)

[elanor]

Erwin!! Thank you so much!! :clap:

[Erwin]

It's here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t788888

It's only temporary for now - I don't want to make any promises I can't keep permanently - let's see how it pans out. :)

[CaDan]

*bump*

[stumpjumper]

Open to all threads should help.

We could petition to have that as a default for all OP's...

One which could be changed at the option of the OP...

[CaDan]

Open to all threads should help.

We could petition to have that as a default for all OP's...

One which could be changed at the option of the OP...

I'll sign that petition.

[stumpjumper]

Sounds good... I think that would be a change that would have a good chance of happening...