"HOLY HOOTERS" Or " How low can you go?"

[Sephania]

Yes you read that correctly. I was just tuning in the TV to catch update on the Hurricane ( Charlie) and on CNN Headline news this "story" came across. Apparently there is a chain of restaurants called "Hooters" that promotes women's cleavage and butts poking out the tightest short shorts I have ever seen and Hot wings. There is a franchise? in Georgia that is now holding a weekly "Bible study". Apparently this Christian man thought this was a good place to go to "reach the unsaved and teach them about Jesus Christ". He said on screen that those who have been participating have found that "this is a book not about rules but about life" while holding a Bible in his hand.

Other young men agreed they liked coming here for the lessons. :o

They showed shots of some of the waitresses who were taking part in this Bible study in their "work" outfits, sitting in the chairs with their legs up.

CNN HEADLINES titled this segment on the side of the screen during the whole time as "HOLY HOOTERS".

I am just wondering is this what Evangelical Christianity has sunk to? Would Y'shua approve of this Evangelizing or is it scandalizing the Holy word?

Can you mix Sex with Salvation?:sigh:

[Henaynei]

no, it is what the world has come to and the church has become part of the world in far too many places..........

[ShirChadash]

Oh... wow. :eek:

[CharlesYTK]

I saw an article a few months back, I think Newsweek, where some "Christian Nudists" were having a big ralley to draw folks into their congregation and build a permanent Christian Nudist community. It showed two of the birthday suited members, (The preacher and his wife) on their Harley, with more than their headbands blowing in the breeze.

Well, I thought about this and you know, it is all just the normal course of things for people who are separated from Torah and righteous instructions. To them, Jesus set aside all laws, and all instruction making everyone saved, and self guided spirits. But its not the spirit of God that is leading them, but the spirit of confusion, the spirit of Antichrist. In paul's letters it said that the spirit of lawlessness (Torah-less-ness) was already on the move in his time. and that the man who embodies a rejection of Torah would appear in the last days. And that it would only get worse.

Charles

[P_G]

OK what I say I say without seeing the article.

Perhaps there is less to the story than we think.
The news outlets many times will want to make these kinds
of stories more sordid than they actually are.

Where are you going to go to find the unsaved?
A Church?
A Revival?

NO

If you want to find sinners you go to where sinners are!

What DID Y'shua do?

He went to the homes of Tax Collectors and Sinners he stayed with them, ate with them and he taught them of the Law and of Grace.

I used to preach on 42nd St in NYC, home to drug addicts and prostitutes, muggers and pimps. I would regularly go to the bowels and the dark places in the subway stations and talk to the gangsters and the homeless. Today when we held a revival it was not in a lovely park some place with trees and grass. No WAY NOT THIS PASTOR! We went to the most drug infested area of the county seat. IN the middle of a circle in front of a flop house.

And there For sure one of our dear sisters (Wheezie) who has had a pretty rough life of her own sat down and talked at length to 3 girls who were both addicted and prostitutes. One accepted the salvation of the Messiah and is doing pretty well from what I hear at one of our sister churches. Our dear Wheezie was propositioned at least a dozen times (She is a model) by men but that did not deter her or us.

So don't be to quick on this perhaps this man is fighting the battle - on a battle ground and not in the rear echelon where it is safe and comforatable.



Blessings

Pastor George (The Lunch Lady)

[Sephania]

PG , it was on CNN Headline NEWS, not an article. I understand where you are coming from , but do you or would you allow someone with a news camera to do a story on you called, lets say, Preacher for Prostitutes?

I dont' think this "news" did one bit of good for the kingdom of G-d do you? This is just another way of disrespecting him while bringing sex and eye candy to the public. It could even go so far as to be a type of Pavlov's responce in connecting Sex with Salvation or Jesus or G-d or Christianity................

Bottom line - Does this bring glory to G-d? It brings to mind Ya'akov's admonitions to:

"Rid yourselves of all vulgarity and obvious evil"
"The religious observance that G-d the Father considers pure and faultless is this:to care for orphans, and widows in their distree and to keep oneself from being contaminated by the world. "
You unfaithful wives! Dont' you know that loving the world is hating G-d? whoever chooses to be the world's friend makes himself G-ds enemy."

How can anyone preach the word of G-d while numerous "hooters" are displayed in his face and those he is teaching? Yes, go where the sinners are but stay where the sin is still commencing? You wil get tangles up in it and drown and bring others down with you.

Well I guess this isn't breaking news as I found an article on the net from the end of July.



Rick Lamborn says he's called on a mission to study the Bible with singles at Hooters

Now what's wrong with this?

Rick Lamborn says he's called on a mission to study the Bible with singles at Hooters



"We've come here because people would be more likely to respond to an invitation when they're comfortable," said group leader Rick Lamborn of the nonprofit organization.

When they're comfortable? Comfortable? Drinking and commiting fornication with their eyes inbetween glimpses at the Holy word?


One ofthe groups members:

His father died in a car accident two years ago on the way to a Bible session at Hooters.
Nice eulogy huh?

Some of the comments on this article:


"And today we will be studying 'Song Of Solomon', with live examples..."


"Well, honey, I'm off to 'bible study!'"
"That's odd.....Bob's been to bible study five times this week...."



Sorry I can't post the site because it contains pictures of some of the "Bible study members" that would violate the rules of this site.

How gloryfying to HaShem do you think this is?

[ShirChadash]

I'm thinking it wouldn't cause too much trouble for anyone to put on a shirt or sit a bit less provocatively, if they want to hear and share the Word of G-d together.



Editing to add that my point here was this:

PG, I am not opposed to reaching people "where they are at" so to speak... but I know for a fact that it can be done without

1: Catering to the evil in which they are entrenched, in the meantime and
2: Appearing to partake of, and thereby add validity to, the evil in which they are entrenched.


JMO.

I was concerned people may have misunderstood what I meant by the above point about wearing clothing, etc. -- when what I was essentially trying to say is... nuh uh, this can be done (reaching people) without stooping to the level of utter indecency, and without encouraging the sinful and probably for many, addictive, environment -- go somewhere else... AND
I didn't get the fact that this is going on right IN the bar room itself, with the waitresses all coming around so clad to "serve" everyone, etc. :eek::eek::eek: -- somehow I assumed they at least were having the Bible study in a back room or the upstairs or something, and it was for the workers primarily!

Blech.

[Sephania]

Right, but the waitresses that are working, come hurrying up to the table to catch a few words in between customers. That has got to be the most distracting Bible study ever, even if you don't look around the resturant, you have a waitress come take your order and others jiggling up to hear a word or two/.

Here is an article sans pics that can be read http://www.daily-times.com/artman/publish/article_13279.shtml

[Mary_Magdalene]

im in georgia. yes this is happening. i go to a southern baptist church. i dont agree with alot of things that more "liberal Christians" at my church think is ok. lets just say some of the head leaders in our church think its ok to sit outside and have cigar smoking parties at the adult pastors home. i struggle with things that go on there cause i am very conservative and agree with most of what the posters here in the MJ forums do.

i bring this up to say that these men who have these bible studies at Hooters are not from my church (as far as i know) but i would not be surprised if this was from my church! I understand what Pastor George is saying but these bible studies are not to bring men that are unsaved hanging out at Hooters into the study. They are to get self professing Christian men FROM the church to show up at a bible study. There is a big difference to me. If these self professed Christians who are members of the church have to be bribed to go to learn about G-d's Word by meeting at Hooters to do it, well there is something wrong there. I will tell you also that one of the bible studies our church has done with the men (and alot of baptist churches do it) is "Every Man's Battle". it helps men to overcome lust and porn. the study is always full. if this is a problem men in the church are having today, there in no way should be a bible study going on where lust is all over the place and in someone's face. We are to help others in their walk and prevent them from stumbling into sin.

I dont want to sound like i am talking badly about ALL baptist churches around Georgia, but i can tell you about mine- it is the biggest mission field i have ever seen. This is a church with 2,000 members and i would guess about 6 people show up to bible studies on a regular basis.

[Mary_Magdalene]

oh, another thing. we went out to lunch today next door to this Hooter's. There is a place to sit outside. Driving by i could almost see this waitresses undergarments from under her shorts. I dont believe that any man could be in that restaurant and not be thinking lustful thoughts.

[insaneinthebrain]

Why must they meet at a place that degrades women?
I can definitely respect trying to get out into the community to reach people, but I can also guarantee that at least half of the guys at this Bible study will allow their eyes to wander. What kind of a message is it for a Christian man to, um, "not make eye contact" with his waitress?

[Sephania]

Exactly ! Mixed message, you can't serve both, from the leaders side and the waitresses.
What was it Y'shua said, they praise me with lips but their hearts are far from me?

To me it's like holding a Bible study for Alcoholics in a Bar, right at the bar with all the shiny bottles gleaming in the light....................... :(

[ShirChadash]

The key element of my faith comes down to consecration... to be "Set Apart" and to strive for holiness.

I do not condone any "Bible Sudy" to be conducted at such a place with no clear intent. Why can't they meet at Panera Bread? Perhaps Starbucks? Why must they meet at a place that degrades women?
^

Yeah, that.

[ShirChadash]

I can definitely respect trying to get out into the community to reach people, but I can also guarantee that at least half of the guys at this Bible study will allow their eyes to wander. What kind of a message is it for a Christian man to, um, "not make eye contact" with his waitress?
And,

^Yeah, that!

[Sephania]

That's OK, you don't have to agree with me. No way. Got my opinions, don't need nothing else.

[The Thadman]

Can you mix Sex with Salvation?:sigh:

~Twitch~..... GAK! --- ~THUMP!~

~Twitch~

~Twit-twitch~

~Twitch...~


Peace?
-Steve-o

[ShirChadash]

:scratch: :sorry: :confused: HUH?

That's OK, you don't have to agree with me. No way. Got my opinions, don't need nothing else.

[P_G]

No I would not allow the news media to cover such a thing
The news media HATES US

Say it with me now

The world hates Us


And the news media is their voice.


I can't make a judgement from what I see in an article like this.
The mans motives may be very altruistic and likely are.

When I was a bouncer years ago in a topless/bottomless bar (yeah me)
The Salvation army used to go in there on a regular basis.

They would come by with their tamborines and mostly solicit money
And the patrons would give I guess most of the time out of guilt.
But they also gave out Tracts and copies of the War cry.

I read everyone I ever got.
Those warriors are part of MY story
Becuase they kept watering the seeds that others had planted.


Bottom line if I could be reached so can anyone
Folks I am a low life piece of dirt EXTRODINARE
Drunk - Drug Addict - Gang Leader - Whoremonger - Adulterer
and more Think the worst that was me. I am not proud but it is my story.

And I thank Gd for all the missionaries who came to where I was
In the gutter, wallowing in my filth.

So when the old hymmn "Love Lifted Me" is sang
I sing it the loudest of them all.


The final analysis is going to be on the last day
If one soul is saved because of this
His reward will be great for his work.


Blessings

Pastor George (The Lunch Lady)


http://www.nehemiah-center.org/lunchlady2.jpg

[mbams]

Amen, Pastor George

[Sephania]

The point is, that it was really not so much to teach the unsaved sex addicts in that place but I read of others that never went there before and were discusted by it and now are going there. Twisted logic but only some understand. I guess its just OK in this day and age to call something Holy Hooters and have those proclaiming G-d to justifiy it.

There is such a thing as being lifted out of the gutter, then there wallowing in it and sanctifying it in your own understanding. :sigh:

Que Sera Sera I guess.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Sounds like it is the sensationalist news media calling it "Holy Hooters" and not the pastor. Maybe comments should be directed more towards the news than the pastor?

I don't care for the choice of venue. Then again, did Jonah care for the choice of Venue the Lord gave him? If the Lord calls to you to go and witness in the middle of Nineveh (or Hooters) you go if you truly wish to follow him. In every age the Lord brings his word to people in the most unlikely of places, because the Lord is much wiser than we are about knowing where his message will be received.

So while I would urge caution that the Lord's people aren't overly sullied by the news agencies of this world; one saved soul is worth all the dirt and grime a news agency can cover us with, is it not?

[The Thadman]

To tell the truth when I first read this thread's title, the first thing that came to mind was "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts that nursed you!" and thinking "What a profane way to say it..." :P

Sensationalist? Yes.

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

Maybe comments should be directed more towards the news than the pastor?


Of course the news named it but I don't think they had to search far for that headline. Aren't we called to put off all appearences of evil?

I don't recall the L-Rd sending any evangelists into Sodom and teach there, wo what would be the difference of going into a gay bar to evangelize the sexually sick? I see no difference.

[insaneinthebrain]

I think there's a fine line between reaching out to the lost and actually participating in their immoral behavior.
Yeshua seemed to do this pretty well ;)
Absolutely. This has more potential to affect the righteous than the lost. Should you set up shop outside, or get a table near the "action?"

[mbams]

Hey everyone, :wave:

I love you all, and thought I might express my opinion in the spirit of fellowship.

I am not a fan of Hooters. However, having worked in a restaurant that decided to go toward sex appeal, I think I might have a glimpse of where these girls are coming from. I also know how others look at them. When they walk past guys they drool, and many of these girls think that is a good thing – they are getting attention, which can kind of feel like love if you’ve been missing it. When they walk past girls they often get sneers and looks of condescension, especially among us “conservative” types. They often think that we just think we are too good for them, or are mixed up and think that we are jealous of the attention they are getting, and therefore seek it more. Their world is so different from ours, and their perspectives reflect this. How do we reach these people? Do we walk up to them and throw them a shirt before speaking to them? That sure won’t make them feel as though we love them just the way they are. But G-d does. I remember watching a documentary on people who came to Yeshua from a life in homosexuality. They stated repeatedly that it wasn’t those who looked down at them or held up signs, “Gays Will Go to Hell”, or something like that, it was when they felt the love of Yeshua reach them were they were, in the gutter, where no one else would touch them that brought them out of sinfulness into H-s goodness.

Who did Yeshua hang out with? I just don’t think we should draw lines that Yeshua himself didn’t seem to draw.

Those are just my thoughts.:)

[Ruhama]

I believe the morality of it is strictly between God and the study group/pastor.

If they're not doing the greatest thing, God can still use it for his purposes. Like he uses all imperfect people. Sometimes we have stupid ideas but somehow he turns it to good.

[Katydid]

I don't believe in judging others in what they are called, or feel called to do. I am hurt that so many others feel the right to do so. If you really want to understand or even rebuke, perhaps speaking to this pastor would be a better option. He has no way to state his point of view on here, all we know is what the article said. Please look at how you are speaking and understand that this man may have prayed before starting this, may have doubts of his own, may even wonder if what he is doing is right. Or, he may be completely confident in what he is doing, he may be wrong, he may be doing this with the wrong motives. The point is, we don't know. We don't know because we haven't spoken to him. We haven't heard what he thinks. I have trouble condoning, or condemning his effort without actally hearing what he has to say.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Actually I seem to remember distinctly that Yeshua met a prostitute at a local drinking establishment ;) John 4:6-27 In fact much of Yeshua's life was religious people critizing him and gossiping about him because he went to the sinners to save them from sin... rather than waiting for them to come to him.

Perhaps the book of Jonah?

But perhaps most telling for me is Joshua 2. One of the best faith statements comes from a non-Jewish prostitute when Jewish spies went and stayed in her "brothel".

One thing about the Bible is that the Lord "stoops to conquer". He meets us where we are, not where we should be.

and as followers we are called not follow to the worlds ways, however this does not mean we're called to leave it or be "out of this world", rather we're called to be "Not of this World", but very much in it.

[Sephania]

OK, so we have established that most of you think its OK to evengelize this way, no matter the appearence. So lets move on to what exactly he is teaching there ( which I believe tells much about his reasoning about why it is OK to hold a Bible Study at Hooters) the statement he made about the Holy word not "being a book about rules but about life".

What to you think of that "point of view" .

I think that the Holy word is a book about life, but how to live it ( if you so choose) by G-ds rules, G-ds laws, the right way to walk.

What lesson is he really teaching?

Since some of you seem to want to fall only to Yeshua's teachings, let me ask you, didn't when he came to someone leading a sinful lifestyle tell them to "Go and sin no more"? Or did he say he would meet them every Wednesday and talk to them while they were sinning?

I'm sorry but this is way too much of the "Feel good" gospel that is being preached today, and if you want to concentrate on what Yeshua said, look up what he said would happen in the end of days, something I believe about ears being tickled, and I think maybe eyes too at the same time???

[Sephania]

Yes Talmid HaYorok,. very much in it to serve the L-rD while being very careful to not have any appearence of evil.

If you were to walk into a Hooters and some guys ( insert anyone else here that needs to be saved or who looiks to you to be a witness) who knew of you and knew your love for Yeshua (I am assuming here) what do you think would cross their mind?

A. Hey those Messianics are just like everyone else! HaHaHa.....................
B. Look there's that Messianic guy, he must be searching out the lost over there at Hooters, lets go have a listen.

[Sephania]

One other question, Do you think this man thought about what kind of light would be shed on the Holy L-RD and his Holy Word by the world before he did this? Did he take into consideration what kind of perverted things could be said about it? The disrespect that the L-RD G-D would get from others?

He said, "Be ye Holy for I am Holy". Is this Holy behavior?

Sex is an epidemic in this world, this type of thing gives the message that it is OK to think lustful thoughts in a lustful place as long as you are holding a bible in your hand. And you will have no trouble studying with those half naked women at your table. :sigh: