MJ and JFJ

[jlujan69]

Are there differences between Messianic Judaism and Jews for Jesus or is JFJ included among MJ's? Is there fellowship between the two or joint evangelism or outreach missions? Any thoughts? I apologize if this same question has been asked so many times before, but please humor someone like me. Thanks.

[CharlesYTK]

Sure. Like Catholics and Protestants.

[mjterry87]

Jews for Jesus is a Christian organization to try and convert Jews to Christians if I understand its mission correctly. Messianic Judaism is a branch of Judaism in which we believe that the Messiah, Yeshua (Jesus) has already come.

[CharlesYTK]

That is pretty much it. J4J is what our pillar Japhet used to call a Church in a Kippah.
out of the destruction of the temple came three groups. abbinical Judaism (predominately Jewish) , Christainity (predominately Gentile) and one other...

I adhere to a third group which came out of the first century, Apostolic Judaism. It is made up of Jew and Gentiles all on equal footing and positon and who follow the Halacha of Yeshua and the disciples rather than the Rabbinate or the church fathers. We take a pretty straight forward view of scripture, and concede that we just don't have a nice custom fit handle on every aspect of God and the Torah. We do our best to be obedient in a way indicated by Yeshua and pray for His mercy for where we fall short, surendering ourselves to the working of the spirit in us to bring us to some form of maturity. I don't know of anyone who climbed to the top. We are all faulted and in need of each others support. We take Talmud as good information but not as scripture and as being without error. Only the Lord is perfect.

Charles

[JewishHeart]

Charles,

How do you see the Jewish people as chosen or why are they still chosen? Do you recognize the priestly calling of the Jewish believers in Messiah (not to say that they are better than Gentile believers, just have a different calling). Have you ever heard of Tikkun INternational (www.tikkunministries.org).

I would like to point out that although I strongly disagree with much of what JFJ stands for, I have seen good fruit here in Israel. They work together with messianics here in Israel (unlike America). I have many precious friends of mine who have been believers a while that came to the L-rd through JFJ. For their sake, I thank G-d for JFJ. I do strongly disagree with their style of evangelism as well as their association as christians rather than messianics ( I have no problem with christianity and feel like spiritually many christians are ahead of messianics in their relationship with G-d, but feel that it is not for Jewish believers.. rather messianic Judaism, its a difference in calling and not relegion). Paul did thank G-d that whether people were preaching the gospel for profit or for whatever other reason, thank G-d they are preaching the gospel. I have seen many JFJ who have genuine hearts for G-d. Just like I disagree with cessationism very strongly ( the gifts of the Spirit ceasing) , but find Baptists (who are cessationists for the most part) bretheren; so I believe of JFJ.

[simchat_torah]

J4J was originally a missionary group started by the Assembly of G-d denomination. It has since branched out as its own full fledged group. Its leader, a self proclaimed rabbi, is an ordained baptist minister. J4J strongly opposes Torah as a 'righteous' lifestyle. While they say it is "ok" to follow Torah, they in no way endorse its premise as the lifestyle of a believer.

As well, they have used deceptive tactics and scare tactics in their 'witnessing' and have given messianics a bad name globally. Many Jewish groups now fimly close their doors in the face of messianics because of the 'fruit' of J4J.

There is much more that I could detail, but let's just say it is an unhealthy group that has done nothing but harm towards the Messianic Movement.

shalom,
yafet

[CharlesYTK]

Charles,

How do you see the Jewish people as chosen or why are they still chosen? Do you recognize the priestly calling of the Jewish believers in Messiah (not to say that they are better than Gentile believers, just have a different calling). Have you ever heard of Tikkun INternational (www.tikkunministries.org (http://www.tikkunministries.org/)).

I would like to point out that although I strongly disagree with much of what JFJ stands for, I have seen good fruit here in Israel. They work together with messianics here in Israel (unlike America). I have many precious friends of mine who have been believers a while that came to the L-rd through JFJ. For their sake, I thank G-d for JFJ. I do strongly disagree with their style of evangelism as well as their association as christians rather than messianics ( I have no problem with christianity and feel like spiritually many christians are ahead of messianics in their relationship with G-d, but feel that it is not for Jewish believers.. rather messianic Judaism, its a difference in calling and not relegion). Paul did thank G-d that whether people were preaching the gospel for profit or for whatever other reason, thank G-d they are preaching the gospel. I have seen many JFJ who have genuine hearts for G-d. Just like I disagree with cessationism very strongly ( the gifts of the Spirit ceasing) , but find Baptists (who are cessationists for the most part) bretheren; so I believe of JFJ.
Yes I agree totally. Just as I do not agree with Christian doctrine, at least they are preaching Messiah Yeshua, though not in the corect way, still they are the only ones preaching him. I have no experience with JJ in Israel of course, but in america I think they are a little more open about the christain doctrine in their organization. It would be so much beter if they had become full Messianic in my opinion.

As for the calling of the Jews, Yes it is still valid. They should be priests, witnesses those who teach the word of God and of His Messiah. However they mostly are not doing this at this time. I know that one day, perhaps soon they will. This will be a glorious day. I believe the covenants for Israel ae eternal and will be upheld by God no matter what, so we will se Israel become who they were supposed to be.

Charles

[Talmid HaYarok]

I would say there isn't a lot of communication or cooperation between the two.

My first personal experience with JFJ was in Israel in the old city with some Jewish friends. Everyone looking Jewish I guess and passing by was given pamphlets on how awful following the law supposedly is.

The best thing is that I got a good witness opportunity when I threw mine away in disgust first. How I did not believe Yeshua mandated that the law and the prophets be destroyed, but rather how it went in hand with it and fulfilled biblical law. I also got to explain to them how Messianic Jews in general are very different from JFJ.

[JewishHeart]

I also got to explain to them how Messianic Jews in general are very different from JFJ.

I agree they are totally different, and I stand on the messianic Jewish side of things... but still I have seen both GOOD and bad fruit come from JFJ, so I won't say it is totally bad.

[simchat_torah]

I've seen many a muslim do good things too...

[CharlesYTK]

I have seen atheists do good things, even better things than believers at times. But they had/have NO testimony for Messiah at all.

Christians at least do believe in the same God as Jews and Messianics, and hold that Yeshua is Messiah, in common with Messianics. They are petty much the same as strangers dwelling in the land, and have only applied those first 4 laws of Acts 15, and have gone no further. But they have not followed the rest of the decision, "To go to the synagogue in their own cities and study Torah (Moshe)"

Charles

[Jasmine-FL]

Hi guys :wave:
If a group teaches a western law hating Jesus to the Jews isnt't that agains Galations 1? Many of my friends always say mormans are going agains Galations 1 because they are teaching a different Jesus thats because i have two good friends who are mormans and sometimes they talk to me about their view of Jesus. But aren't those who condemn the mormans guilty of the same sin when they teach a roman Jesus?

Love you all! :hug:
~Jasmine~

[ShirChadash]

Hi guys :wave:
If a group teaches a western law hating Jesus to the Jews isnt't that agains Galations 1? Many of my friends always say mormans are going agains Galations 1 because they are teaching a different Jesus thats because i have two good friends who are mormans and sometimes they talk to me about their view of Jesus. But aren't those who condemn the mormans guilty of the same sin when they teach a roman Jesus?

Love you all! :hug:
~Jasmine~
I agree with you Jasmine.

It seems to me that Jews have not "rejected Yeshua", simply because Yeshua is not really presented to them without the "Jesus" Christians have made Him into, and He hardly can be presented without "Jesus" now, as the whole of the "Christianized" culture is saturated... and that "Jesus" is a very anti-Jewish, un-Jewish G-d in and of Himself (this shocked me to notice a few weeks ago, because I had read the comment here and I still didn't think it was true... but it is true that Christian churches in the vast majority treat and teach and sing of "Jesus" and set HaShem aside for the most part, as though He is an after-thought or secondary to Yeshua, and focus on Him almost exculsively as though Yeshua is G-d instead of HaShem, though they wouldn't likely notice it or admit it) who supposedly tells His followers that He came to set the free from the Teachings and Ways of G-d Himself. :eek:

In some ways, I do very much see that the "Jesus" that Christianity has made Yeshua into... is a different "Jesus" indeed from who Yeshua truly is.