Which one is right???

[Jasmine-FL]

Revelation 22:14

"Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;"
(Young's Literal Translation)

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates."
(NRSV)

:confused: :confused: :confused:

One appears to say that being washed by the blood of the lamb will give you access to the tree of life the other appears to say that you need to keep His commandments to have access to the tree of life.

:help:

~J~

[The Thadman]

Revelation 22:14

"Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;"
(Young's Literal Translation)

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates."
(NRSV)

:confused: :confused: :confused:

One appears to say that being washed by the blood of the lamb will give you access to the tree of life the other appears to say that you need to keep His commandments to have access to the tree of life.

:help:

~J~

I believe that this is a split word from the Aramaic, but I'll have to check my notes when I get home from work.

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Jasmine-FL]

What is a split word?

[The Thadman]

"Split Words" also known as polysemy, are were ambiguous words are translated into another language, and different translators decide to render them differently. These can be seen most apparently in the letters of Paul. Revelation contains some polysemy as well as some mistranslations, but I haven't taken a good look at Revelation for some months :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Jasmine-FL]

So Steve any news?

[CharlesYTK]

So Steve any news?
All my references show ". . . Do his commandments, that will be their authority to the tree of life. . ."

[CharlesYTK]

In Judaism there is no separation between faith (or believing) and doing. See the letter of James for example. The Lord is not as concerned with what you believe to be true as he is about how you live. If we look at the judgment of the sheep and Goats in Matthew, we see that the nations of the earth are judged concerning their place in the Millennial Kingdom. The basis of that Judgement is how they treated other people in General and perhaps how their treated the believers in particular. It is not believism, but Be-ism.

It is said that the first thing that the lord asks a man at the Judgement is not, "What did you believe?" but rather "How did you conduct your business affairs?" I am afraid that Christianity has tried to turn that around, so that it is not how we act or what we do, but what we believe. There is absolutely no support for this doctrine to be found in scripture. To the contrary, it is what we do. What we believe is expressed in how we act.

Charles

[Sephania]

13 ("]12[/url]“Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 15 ("]14Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.[/color] [url=")Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 ("")I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star.” ```````````World English Bible: Messianic Edition

12 "Pay attention!" [says Yeshua,] "I am coming soon, and my rewards are with me to give to each person according to what he has done. 13 I am the 'A' and the 'Z,' the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." 14 How blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they have the right to eat from the Tree of Life and go through the gates into the city! 15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 "I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Messianic communities. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star. CJB

[CharlesYTK]

I think David Sterns worked his translation largely from the NIV, where it says "wash their robes". He is agreeing because of the reference back to salvation through forgiveness, symbolized by the washing of your robes, which ties back also to the Tanakh, "though you sins be as scarlet, they shall become white (wool)" "Wash me and I shall be Clean" Also geneally speaking, Sterns does not believe Gentiles, even believers in Yeshua, bear responsibility toward Torah beyond the Noachide commandments and living a pure life. He holds the messianic faith pretty much exclusive to the Jews. So his acceptance of this verse as "Wash their robes" fits. It allows simple salvation undefined outside believing, for eternal salvation and a place in the Kingdom and Holy city. By taking this positon Sterns is reafirming Gentile salvation without Gentile responsibility toward Torah.

However it would seem that the majority of the Greek texts say "Obeys his commandments." This is consistent with the words of Messiah and of the apostles, "If you love me, then keep my commandments" If you say you love him and keep not his commandments then you are a liar and there is no truth in you." ect.

(I apologize if my quotes are not precise. I am just speaking from memory and not looking these up right now.)

Charles

[Henaynei]

sounds pretty right on as an explaination to me - CJB does have it's faults, and as with all translations, those faults lie along the theological foundation of the translator(s)

[The Thadman]

So Steve any news?

Sorry it took me so long to get back..

REALLY long week at work, but yâdey 'nâ' l-'Alâhâ' l-shabthâ'! :)

There is a textual variant in the Greek text in this passage. Byzantine manuscripts read "do his commandments" (hoi poiountes tas entolas autou) where Westcott-Hort's critical edition reads "wash their robes" (plunontes tas stolas autôn). Both look similar in Greek, but don't sound too alike.

I also find it interesting that in Aramaic, there could be a similar variant, as "do his works" is "`âvdhin puqdânauhi" where "wash their robes" is "`amdhin 'apqrasauhi" (asperated beyths or "v"s in this transliteration being bilabial, and dâleths and rishes look almost identical in Aramaic script). These two not only look alike when written, but in an early dialect would be difficult to tell apart. :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[debi b]

Wash robes – New Living Translation, New American Standard Bible, Revised Standard Version, Darby, American Standard Version, New International Version, Jewish New Testament

Obey commandments – King James Version, New King James Version, Webster, Young, Aramaic Peshitta

The difference between the two renderings is a result of the underlying texts that were used.

The versions that use “wash robes” come from the NU-Text. These variations from the traditional text generally represent the Alexandrian or Egyptian type of text [the oldest, but sometimes questioned text depending on who you ask].They are found in the Critical Text published in the Twenty-sixth edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (N) and in the United Bible Society's third edition (U), hence the acronym "NU-text."

The versions that use “obey commandments” come from the received text generally referred to as Textus Receptus. Except the Peshitta which does not use Greek (written in Aramaic).


Rev 7 NKJV (received text)
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know."
So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 7 NASV (NU text)
13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Both of these verses are in agreement as to who are clothed in white robes. Perhaps there is not as much trouble then with the differences in 22:14. Maybe these ideas are so intimately linked there is an equation between one who obeys commandments and one who wears a robe. You need to do both.

[RyanLJohnson1]

Wash robes – New Living Translation, New American Standard Bible, Revised Standard Version, Darby, American Standard Version, New International Version, Jewish New Testament

Obey commandments – King James Version, New King James Version, Webster, Young, Aramaic Peshitta

The difference between the two renderings is a result of the underlying texts that were used.
KJV! KJV! KJV! :cool: :cool: :cool:

The KJV is the most reliable. I recommend reading "New Age Bible Versions."

Love in Yeshua,
Ryan

[debi b]

All translations have their strengths and weaknesses :idea:

[RyanLJohnson1]

All translations have their strengths and weaknesses :idea:
Very very true :) I use the KJV first, as well as the NAB and NIV.