How To Unite Christians Worldwide!

[ONE,WHO,REMAINS]

It is something I feel GOD put me here for, to try and break down the walls between churches and help unite all christians to bring this world he created back to him.

[wobbly]

ok, so how are you going to do it?

[Carrye]

And what are the specific walls that you see?

[daveleau]

I feel this is paramount as well.

We need to regain our focus on the Bible instead of the world and the men in it. We need a united front in those that are closely like-minded to the Scriptures to make a concerted effort to break down barriers. This should begin by first stopping all derogatory talk of other denominations. We can say where a denomination goes wrong, but to be judgmental is wrong. All divisions of Christianity (not of Protestantism, or Catholic, or Orthodoxy, but of Christianity) have a belief that their leaders hold that is in contrast to Scripture. In this, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It seems that all divisions have a huge amount of pride (not Scriptural humility, but pride) in the fact that they are the True Church and are immune to error. This is ironic, because the pride they feel in asserting their inerrancy is a sin in itself.

The walls are often referred as being differences in interpretation, but that is a minor issue. The true problem is closed-mindedness and reliance on tradition and pride reigning in the church instead letting Scripture be the focus. Church leaders often preach the message of 1 Cor 1:12, but in the same breath say that they are X division and are more correct than others.

We should all know that Christ is the head of the Church and that He does not exclude anyone that comes to Him because they came from any of our divisions. Scripture is clear that we must be baptized and accept Christ as our Savior. People debate whether we need to be baptized in water, or if it is the Spirit who baptizes. People debate over whether a sprinkle is enough or if we should be dunked. People debate as to whether the water must be blessed by a man or if it should be freshly running water in a stream. WE ARE MISSING THE POINT because we are so focused on the minutia. God is in the details, but He does not care about our outwardly details as long as our heart is pure and we obey Him. We are not going to Hell simply because we did not get baptized in the right way. We are not going to Hell because we took communion this way or that way. As long as the focus is on Christ and not on ulterior motives, we are going to be blessed!

The walls are constructed by Man with Satan's materials- and our ability to reach the World has been severely affected by our infighting. We need to stop it NOW. We need to stop our prideful assertions that we are right and all others are wrong. We need to come together and forget who was first, or who was last. We need to stop worrying what others outside of Scripture have said about this denomination or that. We need to focus on Scripture and let it lead us to outside writing if God wants us there. We need to take God's Word at face value and stop saying- well, we need to be more tolerant of these or those people's actions because of what the world will think. The reality is that we are to love everyone, but are to discern right from wrong and try to keep each other from breaking the Word of God.

Wow. That was a lot longer than I had planned. I thank God for His Word.

God bless you and God's Church- called the Christians.
Dave


PS- After rereading, in saying denominations, I do not mean Protestant denominations, but divisions within Christianity.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I very much agree with most of what you said daveleau. I feel called to a similar goal as ONE,WHO,REMAINS. But, I think we need to formulate a step by step plan. Right here right now. I will get to work immediately.

[Anti-Fear]

You probably already belong to a "recovery church" and read things by that guy Witness Lee.
Christians all over the world are NOT broken apart. We may have some theological disagreements here and there, but most of us believe in salvation through Jesus Christ. There are exceptions of course, many of which arent considered Chrsitian by most, like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists. But mostly we are one body I think. To break down the "walls" you have to see them first.


It is something I feel GOD put me here for, to try and break down the walls between churches and help unite all christians to bring this world he created back to him.

[daveleau]

You probably already belong to a "recovery church" and read things by that guy Witness Lee.

Not sure who this is directed at, but the above doesn't describe me.
If your church doesn't do the above, then that is very good.

[EdwardAnderson]

Anti-Fear so there is no wall between Protestants and Catholics?

The number of times I've heard Catholics called evil...

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Well, I believe I have a first step figured out. We need to hold a huge unity council, representing all denominations. I am putting together a list of topics for it

[Iosias]

It is something I feel GOD put me here for, to try and break down the walls between churches and help unite all christians to bring this world he created back to him.
There is only one church and that is united by one Spirit.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Yeah, but not everyone knows or wants to believe that. Look at the denominations.

[Carrye]

Anti-Fear so there is no wall between Protestants and Catholics?

The number of times I've heard Catholics called evil...
There are walls between Protestants and Catholics, Protestants and Protestants, Protestants and people who don't want to be called Protestants, Catholics and people who don't want to be called Protestants, Christians and Muslims.

And then there's that saying "don't take down fences until you know why they were put up." Unity would be wonderful, but it is too unrealistic to think that we're all in disagreement for no reason. Some of these disagreements are fundamental ones.

And yet we (Christians) are all one body, and one Church. But to reduce all of our differences to a pithy phrase does not reflect reality.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Does it matter that we are in disagreement? Do we not hold the same Nicene Creed and fundamental truths? I think we have more in common then we think, or want to think.

[Iosias]

Does it matter that we are in disagreement? Do we not hold the same Nicene Creed and fundamental truths? I think we have more in common then we think, or want to think.
Therein lies a major problem! I personally (and many others) will not agree with any man-made creed such as the Nicene Creed...Sola Scriptura!

[Carrye]

Does it matter that we are in disagreement?
Yes. In some things it really does matter.

Do we not hold the same Nicene Creed and fundamental truths?
I think it depends on what one considers "fundamental."

I think we have more in common then we think, or want to think.
Oh we have a lot in common, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that there are (unfortunate) divisions for a reason.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I am one for Sola Scriptura as well. Look again http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_no_co

[Carrye]

Therein lies a major problem! I personally (and many others) will not agree with any man-made creed such as the Nicene Creed...Sola Scriptura!
And herein lies another problem: sola scriptura.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Yes. In some things it really does matter.

What differences are very important?

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

And herein lies another problem: sola scriptura.How is this a problem?

[Carrye]

What differences are very important?
Salvation. What it means, and how it is obtained.
Eucharist. What (or Whom) it is, and what effects it has.
Authority. Who has it, and who doesn't.
Scripture. What Christ really meant.

Those are just a few thoughts off-hand.

[Iosias]

And herein lies another problem: sola scriptura.
I will be careful how I word this post... Most protestants especially baptists do not affirm ANY creed. Also our Holy Bible contains nothing but the books Genesis to Revelation. Also many of us are very sceptical about the Roman Catholic Church. Indeed the major theologian of the Brethren considered all ordained clergy to be committing the blasphemy of the Holy ghost. There are walls and some are good...I for one am no counter-reformationist and I will not associate myself with anyone who is...hopefully this does not break any of the forum rules.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Salvation. What it means, and how it is obtained.
Eucharist. What (or Whom) it is, and what effects it has.
Authority. Who has it, and who doesn't.
Scripture. What Christ really meant.

Those are just a few thoughts off-hand.
I have seen very little disagreement over these fundamentals. There may be some minor disagreements, but nothing that should case divisions.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I will be careful how I word this post... Most protestants especially baptists do not affirm ANY creed. Also our Holy Bible contains nothing but the books Genesis to Revelation. Also many of us are very sceptical about the Roman Catholic Church. Indeed the major theologian of the Brethren considered all ordained clergy to be committing the blasphemy of the Holy ghost. There are walls and some are good...I for one am no counter-reformationist and I will not associate myself with anyone who is...hopefully this does not break any of the forum rules.
Yet the Nicene Creed is nothing but scriptures from the Bible. I must ask why they don't affirm it

[Carrye]

How is this a problem?
Not everyone adheres to the idea of sola scriptura.

[Carrye]

I have seen very little disagreement over these fundamentals. There may be some minor disagreements, but nothing that should case divisions.
How so?

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Not everyone adheres to the idea of sola scriptura.
Well, there is no prblem here either.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

How so?
Look through some of the better forums. All the branches are getting together well. Even when we talk theology, we all agree on the basics. As I said, we are far more closely connected than you may think.

[Carrye]

Also our Holy Bible contains nothing but the books Genesis to Revelation. Ours too ... it just includes a few books that y'all left out. ;)

Also many of us are very sceptical about the Roman Catholic Church. I'd love to hear some of your questions/concerns. Honestly. I'm always curious about why others are so "skeptical" of us ... besides that they've often been taught misconceptions.

[Iosias]

I have seen very little disagreement over these fundamentals. There may be some minor disagreements, but nothing that should case divisions.
Eucharist: Catholics --- sacrifice, Baptists --- memorial.
Authority: Catholics --- Pope, tradition, Baptists --- Christ, Holy Bible.
Salvation: Catholics --- works and baptism, Baptists --- Faith alone.


Yet the Nicene Creed is nothing but scriptures from the Bible. I must ask why they don't affirm it

We are both Christians and yet we already disagree over the Nicene Creed!!! I do not affirm it because it is not Canon and it is man-made.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Ours too ... it just includes a few books that y'all left out. ;)

I'd love to hear some of your questions/concerns. Honestly. I'm always curious about why others are so "skeptical" of us ... besides that they've often been taught misconceptions.
I use the Apocrypha myself. Until I see them proved inconsistant, there is just no arguement against them. And even then, they are valuable historical documents. But yet again, belief for or against them is insignificant.

[Carrye]

Look through some of the better forums. All the branches are getting together well. Even when we talk theology, we all agree on the basics. As I said, we are far more closely connected than you may think.
Closely connected, yes. We are one body.

Maybe some of the Protestant denominations agree, but I doubt that same agreement would be had with the Catholics and the Orthodox.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Eucharist: Catholics --- sacrifice, Baptists --- memorial.
Authority: Catholics --- Pope, tradition, Baptists --- Christ, Holy Bible.
Salvation: Catholics --- works and baptism, Baptists --- Faith alone.


We are both Christians and yet we already disagree over the Nicene Creed!!! I do not affirm it because it is not Canon and it is man-made.Yet we still take the same communion, and have the same salvation. The Bible does say faith is dead without deeds, so you both have valid points. Authority is about the only issue, and I am sure that can be put off till last. When we get the unity going, people will see their follies, on both sides.

Then you do have a problem with scripture, because the Nicene Creed is no more than a quote from a book in the Bible.

[Carrye]

We are both Christians and yet we already disagree over the Nicene Creed!!! I do not affirm it because it is not Canon and it is man-made.
And then there's the question of what determines "Canon."

... and on we go.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Closely connected, yes. We are one body.

Maybe some of the Protestant denominations agree, but I doubt that same agreement would be had with the Catholics and the Orthodox.
Some Catholics and Othodox, maybe. But you'd really be surpirsed how good things are going.

[Iosias]

Well, there is no prblem here either.
Yes there is...I will not associate with those who do not hold to Sola Scriptura.

Next what Bible version shall we use at these interdenominational meetings? I will ONLY use the Authorised Version. i.e. No --- NIV, NKJV, NEB, GNB, ASV, RSV etc...

[Carrye]

Yet we still take the same communion
We don't take the same communion.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Yes there is...I will not associate with those who do not hold to Sola Scriptura.

Next what Bible version shall we use at these interdenominational meetings? I will ONLY use the Authorised Version. i.e. No --- NIV, NKJV, NEB, GNB, ASV, RSV etc...
Oh, so you think divisions are a good idea? Well thats with you and God.

Oh, so I assume you read the original Hebrew and Greek texts? Wonderful

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

We don't take the same communion.Explain

[Carrye]

Yes there is...I will not associate with those who do not hold to Sola Scriptura.
You're associating with me right now, mwhaha! ;)

Jokes aside, I understand what you're saying. That's our difference in what "Canon" is.

[Carrye]

Explain
When we each receive communion, we are receiving two different substances. The difference in what people believe their communion to be is an aside here.

Protestant communion: symbolic; it is a piece of bread, a cup of wine/juice. Done to do what Christ did & to remember the Last Supper.

Catholic communion: real; the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ. Christ humbles himself and completely changes the bread and wine into his very self.

[Iosias]

Yet we still take the same communion, and have the same salvation. The Bible does say faith is dead without deeds, so you both have valid points. Authority is about the only issue, and I am sure that can be put off till last. When we get the unity going, people will see their follies, on both sides.
No...Catholics eat the Body and Blood of Christ, I eat Bread and non-alcoholic wine. The Bible says "faith is dead without deeds" in James which I do not believe is for church doctrine. I do not believe that water-baptism is for the church age.

Then you do have a problem with scripture, because the Nicene Creed is no more than a quote from a book in the Bible.Find it for me in the Holy Bible!

Separation is good! Unity within the true Body is vital but we must separate ourselves from false brethren who are becomming more numerous daily!

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

When we each receive communion, we are receiving two different substances. The difference in what people believe their communion to be is an aside here.

Protestant communion: symbolic; it is a piece of bread, a cup of wine/juice. Done to do what Christ did & to remember the Last Supper.

Catholic communion: real; the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ. Christ humbles himself and completely changes the bread and wine into his very self.
Well I have to go, but keep this in mind: Does what we think something is change what it is?

[Iosias]

You're associating with me right now, mwhaha! ;)

Jokes aside, I understand what you're saying. That's our difference in what "Canon" is.
And yet we are only agreeing on the fact they we are vitally different!! :)

[Carrye]

Well I have to go, but keep this in mind: Does what we think something is change what it is?
It does not. And that's the point.

[Carrye]

And yet we are only agreeing on the fact they we are vitally different!! :)
I know. And that was something we both agreed on at the beginning.

[Bradford]

Yes there is...I will not associate with those who do not hold to Sola Scriptura.

Next what Bible version shall we use at these interdenominational meetings? I will ONLY use the Authorised Version. i.e. No --- NIV, NKJV, NEB, GNB, ASV, RSV etc...
Authorized by whom, exactly?

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Maybe the tradition he doesn't follow?

[Carrye]

The Bible says "faith is dead without deeds" in James which I do not believe is for church doctrine. I do not believe that water-baptism is for the church age.
...
but we must separate ourselves from false brethren who are becomming more numerous daily!I mean no disrespect to you personally AV, but all of these "I do not believes" and your comment about "false brethren" come down to an authority issue. Who has the authority to determine what is or is not "for church doctrine" or "for the church age"? And who determines who is and is not false brethren?

It is an issue of separation because we hold different authorities.

[ONE,WHO,REMAINS]

People confuse what I say sometimes and take a different way. Yes under God we are one church, we all do work for the same goal, yet we do not work in unisen. We all work indepent from one another in the aspect of church. What I know Im called to do is to get us to communicate more in between churches, put together functions as one. The strength of church's as independents is beatable, but as on we are invincible. Anything and everything is possible through GOD who strengthens me and I will sacrifice everything I have and am to help bring this world back to GOD, and this cannot be accomplished without all churches working together.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Very much agreed. Me and Bradford were actually discussing an Eighth Ecumenical Council. Interested?

[Asaph]

Very much agreed. Me and Bradford were actually discussing an Eighth Ecumenical Council. Interested?
Post it brother! You know I'll discuss it with ya.......:D

Bizzlebin man I tried to follow this thread but yall kind of went into a frenzy of posts and I couldn't keep up. But I am suprised that with your dedication to logic you haven't challenged AV on his dismissal of all translations other than the authorized version. That translation is probably the least documented of all he dismissed.

AV seems to not understand the difference between a translation and a transliteration. Perhaps you could lay it out better than I.

Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
Asaph

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Oh, we gave him some stuff to think about. Hopefully he will come and be unified in Christ. Anyways, http://www.christianforums.com/t732399 is my first attempt at getting common ground