Churches Being Ineffective

[9-iron]

I have been talking to people around this area and all the churches seem to be floundering. I don't know exactly how bad it is some other towns around here, but churches in this town are pretty much doing nothing. In fact, numbers in attendance go down monthly almost.

It may not be what the churches are doing or aren't doing. Could it be people just really don't want to hear the gospel anymore? People that are already in church, could it be they just don't want to hear how they should change their lives anymore?

Face it, hearing gospel requires a change in lifestyle. For many changing our from our middle class Americanism is something we don't want to do.

Have we entered a age where hearts have grown cold and ears have gone death?

[Plan 9]

This does happen, of course, and the old Jesus Freak joke about this was "Many are cold and a few are frozen." What seem to be dying churches can make a sudden turnaround, though, and my personal feeling is that we should do everything we can to assist God in this miraculous work.

There's nothing ineffective about my church, however, and I can't convey how very much I long to attend services again! :cry:

[happyinhisgrace]

I have been talking to people around this area and all the churches seem to be floundering. I don't know exactly how bad it is some other towns around here, but churches in this town are pretty much doing nothing. In fact, numbers in attendance go down monthly almost.

It may not be what the churches are doing or aren't doing. Could it be people just really don't want to hear the gospel anymore? People that are already in church, could it be they just don't want to hear how they should change their lives anymore?

Face it, hearing gospel requires a change in lifestyle. For many changing our from our middle class Americanism is something we don't want to do.

Have we entered a age where hearts have grown cold and ears have gone death?9-iron, I am reading a really good Christian book right now that is about this very topic. It is a fictional novel and quite old but such a good book. It is called "This Present Darkness". If you can check it out from the library, I highly suggest it. Like I said, it is a fictional novel but so much of it is biblically based and I think you would really find it interesting. It give one such a "new" way of looking at things dealing with this very topic.:)

[Plan 9]

9-iron, I am reading a really good Christian book right now that is about this very topic. It is a fictional novel and quite old but such a good book. It is called "This Present Darkness". If you can check it out from the library, I highly suggest it. Like I said, it is a fictional novel but so much of it is biblically based and I think you would really find it interesting. It give one such a "new" way of looking at things dealing with this very topic.:)

Who is its author, if I may ask? :)

[muffler dragon]

Who is its author, if I may ask? :)
Frank Peretti

Same guy who did The Visitation, The Oath, and there is an additional book that follows up on the This Present Darkness, but I can't think of it now.

Mr. Peretti has a wonderful writing style. Very enjoyable. He definitely goes over-board (IMO) about how prayer works in some regard, but I enjoy it nonetheless.

m.d.

[Plan 9]

Frank Peretti

Same guy who did The Visitation, The Oath, and there is an additional book that follows up on the This Present Darkness, but I can't think of it now.

Mr. Peretti has a wonderful writing style. Very enjoyable. He definitely goes over-board (IMO) about how prayer works in some regard, but I enjoy it nonetheless.

m.d.

Thanks, m.d. I wish this were a place where I could ask you how you've been.
Yes, I've read a couple of Mr. Peretti's books, and the title did sound familiar. It was the use of the expression "quite old" which threw me. ROTFL!

Thanks again!
~Planny

[muffler dragon]

Thanks, m.d. I wish this were a place where I could ask you how you've been.
Yes, I've read a couple of Mr. Peretti's books, and the title did sound familiar. It was the use of the expression "quite old" which threw me. ROTFL!

Thanks again!
~Planny
I understand how the expression can throw you for a loop. You and I probably read them just after they came out. :)

I'll PM you with a personal update.

m.d.

[9-iron]

It is called "This Present Darkness". If you can check it out from the library, I highly suggest it.



I read it several years ago. Brings up a good point. We don't pray enough.

[Plan 9]

I understand how the expression can throw you for a loop. You and I probably read them just after they came out. :)
m.d.

Well..erm...no. I read them some time after they came out, I believe. Have you looked up at my age icon lately? ;)
I thought I'd missed a Charles Willams novel. LOL
When you said the author was Frank Peretti, I had this sudden sensation of being three years younger than dirt. It happens. :eek:

[muffler dragon]

Well..erm...no. I read them some time after they came out, I believe. Have you looked up at my age icon lately? ;)
I thought I'd missed a Charles Willams novel. LOL
When you said the author was Frank Peretti, I had this sudden sensation of being three years younger than dirt. It happens. :eek:
I know how old you are, Planny. The Peretti book came out in the late 80s/early 90s. That doesn't predate you to the age of dirt. :)

m.d.

[Celticflower]

I have been talking to people around this area and all the churches seem to be floundering. I don't know exactly how bad it is some other towns around here, but churches in this town are pretty much doing nothing. In fact, numbers in attendance go down monthly almost.

It may not be what the churches are doing or aren't doing. Could it be people just really don't want to hear the gospel anymore? People that are already in church, could it be they just don't want to hear how they should change their lives anymore?

Face it, hearing gospel requires a change in lifestyle. For many changing our from our middle class Americanism is something we don't want to do.

Have we entered a age where hearts have grown cold and ears have gone death?

Sometimes chuches seem to be ineffectual because they are stuck in a rut. I know one preacher who got kicked out because he wanted to "grow the church" . The older folks who were the deacons and elders didn't like the idea. Sometimes people need to be shaken up every now and then--comfort is not what the church is about IMHO. Sometimes a different type of presentation of the message is enough--something dramatic rather than a constant stream of Bible verses (yes, I have heard sermons done that way :yawn: )

I don't think "hearts have grown cold and ears have gone death"--I think it is more they are only sleeping and need to be shaken awake.

Celtie

[Plan 9]

I know how old you are, Planny. The Peretti book came out in the late 80s/early 90s. That doesn't predate you to the age of dirt. :)

m.d.

Hey, but they're "quite old"! I've been reading since I was about six years old, so it's all relative. ;)

[Plan 9]

Sometimes chuches seem to be ineffectual because they are stuck in a rut. I know one preacher who got kicked out because he wanted to "grow the church" . The older folks who were the deacons and elders didn't like the idea. Sometimes people need to be shaken up every now and then--comfort is not what the church is about IMHO. Sometimes a different type of presentation of the message is enough--something dramatic rather than a constant stream of Bible verses (yes, I have heard sermons done that way :yawn: )

I don't think "hearts have grown cold and ears have gone death"--I think it is more they are only sleeping and need to be shaken awake.

Celtie

Yes, Celtie! I saw that with my father's church. They didn't wnat to move the minister, who had helped dig the big rut, and then encouraged them to all climb in and live there for years, because he was ill with cancer, so they waited for him to retire, and then did an unusual thing: the bishop appointed the new pastor and assistant pastor. They were out of that rut in no time, the large church building was no longer one quarter full of mostly elderly people, and they later had to build on.
They love being out of their rut! :)

[DanArgent]

A couple of things, I love this present darkness. its a great book. one thing that I noticed as I was reading it thoug is that the author is obsesed with the word "crashbar" he uses it over and over again. "she ran through the door slaming the crashbar" etc. its almost like hes proud that he knows what they are called.

Back to the original subject though, it is becoming harder and harder to be a christian in the face of percicution and the fact that religion is falling out of poular favor. Thus manny unsaved people who do not know christ but when to church because thats what everyone else does are leaving the church. I do no thing the number of "real" christians is dwindling, on the contrary I feel that it is growing. But the number of people attending church is drasticly dropping leaving the people who have a relationship with christ. its like separating the wheat from the chaff

[Anti-Fear]

I think its due to lack of activism of normal everyday people. Nobody does volunteering, nobody goes on the street to pass out literature, doing public events and stuff. That should be done more.

If you want to stop decline in Church going get some people together and pass out leaflets telling people about Jesus.
Maybe you can get a band to play on the street to attract attention.

This was done in Berkeley , and although I dont know how effective it was, it sure did attract a lot of attention.


I have been talking to people around this area and all the churches seem to be floundering. I don't know exactly how bad it is some other towns around here, but churches in this town are pretty much doing nothing. In fact, numbers in attendance go down monthly almost.

It may not be what the churches are doing or aren't doing. Could it be people just really don't want to hear the gospel anymore? People that are already in church, could it be they just don't want to hear how they should change their lives anymore?

Face it, hearing gospel requires a change in lifestyle. For many changing our from our middle class Americanism is something we don't want to do.

Have we entered a age where hearts have grown cold and ears have gone death?

[9-iron]

Maybe you can get a band to play on the street to attract attention.



Those things have been tried locally and the result was zilch. I am speaking from a regional perspective, but the church has no relevant connection with people anymore.

I suppose the church has painted itself a bad picture. A local pastor was caught in an ex-marital affair, so have a few deacons, a lot of the church crowd drinks excessively and pulls stuff the local heathens do. Seems a lot of folks around here just mix it all together and hey, we get a free pass to heaven.

Then there are those that work constantly to reach people. Most of those still going strong in the faith have turned their attention to younger children. Adult evangelism is zero around here it seems.

[happyinhisgrace]

Frank Peretti

Same guy who did The Visitation, The Oath, and there is an additional book that follows up on the This Present Darkness, but I can't think of it now.

Mr. Peretti has a wonderful writing style. Very enjoyable. He definitely goes over-board (IMO) about how prayer works in some regard, but I enjoy it nonetheless.

m.d.He does take some liberties with the angles and such but I have to admit that I am really enjoying the book. I don't take it to heart as scripture but it does give one a different perspective and makes ya think. The thing I am getting most from it is how very sly and sneaky the devil is and how he works "undercover" all around us and most people haven't a clue how bad the battle really is.

[muffler dragon]

He does take some liberties with the angles and such but I have to admit that I am really enjoying the book. I don't take it to heart as scripture but it does give one a different perspective and makes ya think. The thing I am getting most from it is how very sly and sneaky the devil is and how he works "undercover" all around us and most people haven't a clue how bad the battle really is.
I, too, enjoy the books very much. I have all the titles that he has available for adult entertainment. I just don't place a whole lot of stock in the premises that he provides. It's much the same as I feel about the whole Left Behind series. I have read, owned, and borrowed everyone book, but I don't necessarily agree with everything in them. That's the joy of fiction.

m.d.

[happyinhisgrace]

I, too, enjoy the books very much. I have all the titles that he has available for adult entertainment. I just don't place a whole lot of stock in the premises that he provides. It's much the same as I feel about the whole Left Behind series. I have read, owned, and borrowed everyone book, but I don't necessarily agree with everything in them. That's the joy of fiction.

m.d.Yes, I agree and when you can find a good "fiction" that is based on Biblical beliefs, well now, that is a book worth reading!:wave:

[blessedbe]

I feel so lucky to belong to a church that is definately NOT stuck in a rut, and is reaching out to the unchurched with great results. We live in a town that practically has a church on every corner; our church was started because one of the Baptist churches in town saw that very problem the OP mentioned and figured it was time to get a new kind of church out there, they got some people together from their church who wanted to start a new church, and viola! 7 years later, we have 2000 some attendies every week, we have 3 services, about 20 different ministries, and do baptism once a year with about 150 people getting baptised. It's amazing! What is truly amazing is the BASICNESS of the church. There is no weird, non-biblical stuff going on, no humanism creeping in or stuff like that. What is "different" about this church is that the music is praise and worship, no hymns, and our "motto" is Turning Irreligious People Into Fully Developed Followers of Christ. That's it. We have a church full of people who believe in that goal, and we do what it takes to reach it. The emphesis on SERVING is huge at this church, our volunteer rate of church members is like 70%! that is amazing to me.

I can't help but brag on it, and I feel truly blessed!!!!

I would tend to agree with another poster in here though that said maybe the number "true" christians is not declining at all, it just looks that way because we have alot of people just not bothering with the charade anymore--of course it's pretty sad that the church they were attending couldn't keep them and make them a true christian!!

I think alot of the problem with the churches today is relevance. I'm not sure that the ministers know how to make the Bible relevant to today. And if you can't make it relevant, then people can't believe it's actually true; it turns into a work of fiction. Church leaders have got to be able to take the stories and apply them to today. It takes some creativity, but it can be done, and can be done without watering down the message too.

[blessedbe]

oh, those Perretti books are good. This Present Darkness was one of the first ones I read by him, and it really made me think. I don't subsribe to his theology totally, but he knows how to bring a point home, at least on that book!