Judaizer?

[Jasmine-FL]

Hi y'all :wave:
Last week I had to sit through an official 'visit' :sigh: from my former AoG pastor to sum it up he said I had to quit hanging out with the Judaizers then he explained to me what a Judaizer what. But now that I am finally able to think for myself I googled the word Judaizer and guess what I found?

"The term Judaizer was coined at the Coucil of Laodicea. There it is was ordered that
"Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day, and, if then can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ."

Wait a sec didn't Jesus keep the Sabbath? So Jesus was the first Judaizer!
And I use to think Judaizer was a bad word! I want to be a Judaizer too just like my Master! :clap:

May Christ's lovingkindness be upon y'all!

~J~

[Sephania]

Yes, one who follows the laws that Hashem gave and then Y'shua refined and added to at his coming. The holy days of the L-rD to show and then commemorate his plan of salvation. The commemoration of the creation and all the wonders that entailed.

If those are a "BAD" thing then I want to be "As bad as bad can be!" :D

[Sephania]

Jasmine, it must be understood that there are two interpretations of "L-RD's Day". One is the original and true interpretation, and another is a man-made one.

The day of rest - Shabbat - the seventh day, was the day that the L-RD himself sanctified and made holy, who can override that? It was to be everlasting as long as the creation he created was in existance. Those who have changed that day, no matter what their reasoning, are going against what the L-RD said, and the L-rD knew it would happen else he wouldn't have warned us through the Prophet Daniel, when talking about the forth beast ( the Roman empire) that "he" would think to change times ( appointed times, such as the Holy days, and Shabbat) and laws ( the laws of G-d).

The laws were not to change, just the way of recieving them and understanding them is what Y'shua taught.

[Sephania]

Last week I had to sit through an official 'visit' :sigh: from my former AoG pastor to sum it up he said I had to quit hanging out with the Judaizers then he explained to me what a Judaizer what.

Jasmine, why did you "have to" do this?

[ShirChadash]

Heh -- what I always LOL about is that in Scripture, a Judaizer is one who says one must be a Jew -- convert -- in order to be S A V E D. Yet we who believe that Torah is to be followed as a living out of the salvation we have already received in Yeshua... are called Judaizers according to man's reckoning. ITA with you -- if that's the case, Yeshua was a Judaizer and I want to be one too.

[Sephania]

Yep, ya got yer,

"Jews for Jesus"
"Jews for Judaism"

Now a New slogan we should all add to our signatures:

"Yehudaizer for Y'shua" :D


PS: Todah rabah, U know who! ;)

[P_G]

Ahh Ha!

What he really wants you to do is stay away from those awful legalists!
Now he calls them Judiazers because they keep a Sabbath. What a terrible thing to do! Actually keep the commands of HaShem!

Usually those that keep the commands of the L-rd will tell you that it blesses them to do so. I know it blesses me. I don't think that you are in grave danger of hell fire if you don't. But I wonder why you would hate Gd so much as to not want to do as he commands?

Ask your former AoG pastor this question "Now that I am saved which commandment is it ok to break?"
Notice I am not getting into a deep halachal discussion here lets just stick to Exodus 20 for a while. Which one pastor? Lying? Stealing? Murder? Adultery?
Well no of course not but the sabbath thing was for then not now right?

And know what you are going to hear? The list of excuses, justifications and plausable explanations. Simply said he doesn't keep ANY sabbath! Not saturday not sunday not any day of the week. I guarantee that there is not one day set soley aside for rest and prayer. No going to the supermarket, No McDonalds after church, no turning on the computer, no working on next weeks sermon NADA. Heck even our most ardent MJ's here don't abide well the sabbath but thats another story.

So if you wish to walk in sin walk in sin. But ask yourself What Would Y'shua actually do? What would he teach? To go forth and sin? And then ask yourself why don't you love Gd enough to care about and keep his commands.


Thats my 2 sheckels anyway

Pastor George :wave:

[The Thadman]

Ask your former AoG pastor this question "Now that I am saved which commandment is it ok to break?"

LOL :D

Peace!
-Steve-o

[SpiritPsalmist]

I read in a book that "judaizer" meant "to force Gentiles to follow the law's of Torah"????

[Sephania]

Such as the ones being "preached" from Moshe in the synagogues every Shabbat, such as James exhorted in Acts 15? ;)

[ShirChadash]

Quaff, if I recall correctly, *scripture* says that Judaizing is specifically telling gentiles they must become Jews in order to be saved. In the Acts 15 passage...

[Jasmine-FL]

Jasmine, why did you "have to" do this?
I don't know I must really enjoy suffering. He asked to make me a visit and I just couldn't say no I haven't even been attending that church (or any church) lately. He told me I was in danger of going to hell I spent hours crying after his visit. :cry:

[P_G]

Quaff, if I recall correctly, *scripture* says that Judaizing is specifically telling gentiles they must become Jews in order to be saved. In the Acts 15 passage...
I think in the broadest of terms what the Judiazers wanted was the complete conversion to judiasm of the gentile beleiver. They held that no one could be saved unless he was first a jew. This was surely bourne of a lot of cultural factors and in part some scriptural ones too.

What Paul and later Peter saw was that the path of righteousness could come from the gospel of Y'shua from his teaching. The "rules" first put on the gentile were meant really bo be broad and fairly easy to achieve. Basically Noachide. But Paul surely taught over and over again that there was good reason to walk in greater righteousness. He never said throw away these good things (the Law) but rather that in and of itself the law was not going to save you.

So in reality I do not become a Judiazer untill I tell you "You must be Jewish FIRST before you can accept Y'shua and his salvation" My telling you that as a beleiver you should walk in righteousness does not make me a Judiazer nor a legalist. It makes me a pastor.


Blessings

PG :wave:

[ShirChadash]

"Yehudaizer for Y'shua" :D

Rofl!

[Jasmine-FL]

Ahh Ha!
So if you wish to walk in sin walk in sin. But ask yourself What Would Y'shua actually do? What would he teach? To go forth and sin? And then ask yourself why don't you love Gd enough to care about and keep his commands.

Pastor George, :wave:
I love it how you always have a gentle way of teaching the truth. You're a blessing to this forum and a true man of God. :hug:

~J~

[Yasatora]

What God has blessed with you..... has the devil stirred up, to send one of his own to use scare tactics, threats of hell, to keep you from leaving His fold.

Count the whole experience a blessing, if the devil is angry you must be doing something right.

You are welcome here. I think that we all can relate to what you went through. I believe that we all can tell you stories of our own on how we were threatened with loss of salvation or membership or whatever they thought might persuade us from following the Messiah into all truth.

I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. It is a right of passage with the followers of Yeshua, just like he went through out in the wilderness for forty days being tempted and such.

Keep your eyes upon Yeshua and He will continue you to guide you into all truth. He is calling many and if you stay on this forum area for any length of time, you will see many come to learn, come to visit, come to stay and grow with us. This is going on all over the world. It is a grand movement that is not of mans doing as each individual can attest to. They will all point to the Lord and His leading. We are gathering in truth, gathering in the feasts of the Lord, preparing for His day, and we want to be ready. Come gather with us.

May you be blessed with the continued leading of the Holy Spirit upon the Word.

[JewishHeart]

I believe a Judaizer is the opposite of an Ephraimite (Messianic Israelism). It is forcing the gentile believers to take upon themselves the calling G-d has given to Jewish believers. Messianic Israelism is gentiles who usurp the calling of the Jewish people, Judaizing is Jewish people enforcing their own calling on those who are not called.

[Sephania]

Actually I think what was being disputed was circumcision, and if I were Jasmine, I would have told the pastor not to worry, that no one had told me I had to be circumcized yet! :D

Jasmine don't shed another tear about that, just pray for that man to see what was truth and what was not about what he told you, and keep following what the L-RD is directing you in, He is the only one you HaVE to please. :hug:

[P_G]

I don't know I must really enjoy suffering. He asked to make me a visit and I just couldn't say no I haven't even been attending that church (or any church) lately. He told me I was in danger of going to hell I spent hours crying after his visit. :cry:

Jasmine:

I am going to just assume that you know Y'shua as your messiah and as your savior. In fact if you are trying to keep his commands I will bet you call him lord also. So that being said I need to remind you of this and you go tell that so called "pastor" this is what the BIBLE says:

Rom 8:1 There is, then, no penalty for those who are in Messiah Yeshua.

you might recognize it better this way

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jasmine
You are NOT going to hell. If you are trusting and loving Y'shua and walking with the Father you are going to go and live with him forever. Its a straight up bible truth. Please next time this "pastor" comes a calling have him give me a ring up and Nehemiah Center and maybe he and I shall have a little chat.

PM me for the #

Now you go be blessed, praise the L-rd let him know you love him and that you are in awe of him or how ever it is you praise him. And you rest easy tonight little one because you are a blood bought saint of Gd and nothing not the devil nor man will snatch you out of his hand! Thats a promise.

Pastor George :wave:

[Henaynei]

I don't know I must really enjoy suffering. He asked to make me a visit and I just couldn't say no I haven't even been attending that church (or any church) lately. He told me I was in danger of going to hell I spent hours crying after his visit. :cry:
And I thought AoG doctrine was WSAS :scratch:

I am so sorry his visit was so painful for you - I am just as glad that HaShem showed you the truth re: "Judaizing" :clap:

[ShirChadash]

Wsas??

[Henaynei]

WHAT - I have an anacronym Zemy has not?? ;) I *doubt* it!
Should have been OSAS - forgive slippery fingers.....

Once
Saved
Always
Saved

[simchat_torah]

wsas = Wookies Soak in Amber Sacks

[ShirChadash]

^_^ LOL


Sorry Henny -- it sounded familiar, but I sure couldn't seem to figure it out, and OSAS isn't an acronym I ever saw before coming here... and then I... well... forgot it LOL!!!

:blush:

[Andyman_1970]

I thought I would pop my head into this discussion.

I certainly hate to hear that an AOG pastor has taken this tone with you.

As for the OSAS, from what I have noticed with AOG's they tend to be Arminian in their salvation doctrine, so they probably think Jasmine has "fallen away".

[P_G]

As I attended an AoG bible college (please no comments)
I feel uniquely suited to chime in here

The official posistion of the AoG and official teaching is that
once you are saved you can indeed "loose" your salvation
but that it is very difficult to do so.

But this whole thing doesn't even come close to where they would say
you would have to be to do that.

I reiterate Jasmine have a good sleep tonight knowing that Y'shua is putting
the spackle on your room in the mansion right now. (My Boss is a Jewish sheetrocker? Just doesn't have the same ring to it but ok)


Blessings

PG :wave:

[insaneinthebrain]

wsas = Wookies Soak in Amber Sacks
Water Soluble Aerobic Slacks?

[Henaynei]

Thanks guys (and gals) I needed a laugh really bad right about now - and you came through!! ^_^

[sojeru]

Hi Jasmine,

I havent heard from you in a nice while.

from what I see I would assume that you are doing well.
But, i must ask:)
How are you and your loved ones keeping these days your Excellency?

I hope that all is beneficial...
shalom u'brachot,
Antonio