On the Dangers of Convertitis

[Oblio]

Andrew Damick


On 12 December 1452 a solemn liturgy was held in the great cathedral of the Holy Wisdom, in the presence of the Emperor and the Court. The Pope and the absent Patriarch were commemorated in the prayers, and the decrees of the Union of Florence were read out. - Sir Steven Runciman, The Fall of Constantinople 1453


Our Orthodox Christian world (especially as it is represented on the Internet) is shrill with the objections of those who are outraged by displays of what is generally called "ecumenism" by our hierarchs and clergy. Indeed, there is a certain strain of current activity by various patriarchs and and other assorted longbeards that can leave an Orthodox Christian serious about his faith feeling a bit cold and uncomfortable.

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This temptation toward correctness is one common to adult converts to the faith, but it is of course not exclusive to them. It seems to be particularly rampant among the recently converted. How can one who has been in the Church only a few months or years be capable of judging another man's adherence to Tradition? How can I know if you are faithful to the Tradition when I have not yet become the Tradition?

My spiritual father sometimes has told me, "Andrew, just come to church, pray, and then get out!" He doesn't necessarily mean that entirely literally, of course, but the essence of his statement is that it is easy to become distracted by the temporal business of the Church. Perhaps five and a half centuries from now, Orthodox Christians will look back on the mess that is Orthodox America in our time and see that the Church still exists, the faith still goes on, and Armageddon did not in fact come.

Entire Article (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles4/DamickConvertitis.shtml)

[readerpaul]

Amen!

[Michael the Iconographer]

I for one will admit that as I grow more mature in my Orthodox faith I have loosed up on alot of things that I once had a hard line stand on. I once heard it quoted in reference to Egg Tempera Iconography, "You can make a religion out of anything, including eggs." I think your priest is right, sometimes we get way too caught up on things that have little to do with our actual praying at liturgy and living a Christian life.

[vanshan]

Converts come in many varieties and to paint them all with the same brush is unkind.
Pointing out the pitfalls some converts get into can be an act of mercy, but to be too judgemental may only cause division. Being a convert in Orthodoxy is not easy.

First, you have the ethnocentrism of some jurisdictions. Once, while having a joint feast service at a local parish, someone from that parish saw our visiting priest and said, "Who is this gypsy priest?" Another person during coffee hour informed one of my Orthodox friends that you cannot be Orthodox unless you are _________. How unwelcoming can you get? When I called to order crowns for my wedding the lady on the other end of the line could not believe that I was not of a particular ethnic persuasion. She claimed she had never heard of anyone converting. She thought that idea was so novel she was going to tell her friends.

Second, you have cradle born, who sometimes are Orthodox by culture or default, viewing you as a second-class Orthodox person. Then again, converts return the same to craddle Orthodox, who they sometimes judge as lukewarm.

Be patient with us converts. Some zeal can help spread the faith -- if it is directed and matured properly. How long did it take Paul from conversion to become a teacher and strong establisher of our faith?

Basil

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Converts come in many varieties and to paint them all with the same brush is unkind.
Pointing out the pitfalls some converts get into can be an act of mercy, but to be too judgemental may only cause division. Being a convert in Orthodoxy is not easy.

First, you have the ethnocentrism of some jurisdictions. Once, while having a joint feast service at a local parish, someone from that parish saw our visiting priest and said, "Who is this gypsy priest?" Another person during coffee hour informed one of my Orthodox friends that you cannot be Orthodox unless you are _________. How unwelcoming can you get? When I called to order crowns for my wedding the lady on the other end of the line could not believe that I was not of a particular ethnic persuasion. She claimed she had never heard of anyone converting. She thought that idea was so novel she was going to tell her friends.

Second, you have cradle born, who sometimes are Orthodox by culture or default, viewing you as a second-class Orthodox person. Then again, converts return the same to craddle Orthodox, who they sometimes judge as lukewarm.

Be patient with us converts. Some zeal can help spread the faith -- if it is directed and matured properly. How long did it take Paul from conversion to become a teacher and strong establisher of our faith?

BasilThanks, Basil.:) I bet there are many Saints who were zealous converts. I understand the point of the article, and yet parts of it were a little disconcerting to me.

[jkotinek]

+Christ is in our midst!+

Converts come in many varieties and to paint them all with the same brush is unkind.
Pointing out the pitfalls some converts get into can be an act of mercy, but to be too judgemental may only cause division. Being a convert in Orthodoxy is not easy.With all due respect Basil, I think that Mr. Damick does not unjustly indict anyone:
This temptation toward correctness is one common to adult converts to the faith, but it is of course not exclusive to them. It seems to be particularly rampant among the recently converted. How can one who has been in the Church only a few months or years be capable of judging another man's adherence to Tradition? How can I know if you are faithful to the Tradition when I have not yet become the Tradition?I think the final sentence there is on point, because cradle Orthodox, even those who may not be active in church, live, and think Orthodoxy in ways that we converts can not understand or appreciate. Of course, none of my response should be taken as condoning a condescending attitude from either converts or cradle Orthodox. As an adult convert, what Mr. Damick wrote resonates with me. The sort of behavior he describes is, finally, why I have become uncomfortable with this board--because it provides too many opportunities for me to lapse into a know-it-all mode, and I struggle with pride as it is. Oblio's post is, I think, a very pastoral reminder of the need to temper zeal with love.

Be patient with us converts. Some zeal can help spread the faith -- if it is directed and matured properly. I agree completely, and as a convert myself, am grateful that persons such as my spouse and my priest were and are patient with me as I learn to keep my eyes on my own plate, so to speak...

God be gracious unto me a sinner.

[Cradle]

Boy I could write a whole book on this discussion :D. But I've got enough non-religious documents to care for, so I'll keep this one as short as possible :).
Being a convert in Orthodoxy is not easy.
From personal experience, I can assure you that being born in Orthodoxy and trying to remain therein is not easy either. Especially if the flow of your life has brought you to the west. I mean, at least if you are a convert, you are within your own culture, you have a few people, be them 5, be them just 2, also converts, that you can fully associate with. Now, say you are from a country in the east. You end up west and you immediately recognise the nominal and solely cultural religious status of the immigrant communities. Besides, for the most part they are immigrants of the 1910s and their expertise is kebabs, while you happen to be an educated man and socially don't have much in common with them. You also feel that associating with them will be counter-productive for you, it will either lead you to water down your personal struggle, or make you judgemental of them. So you turn to the convert communities, genuinely admiring their zeal and hoping to gain from them. But hey, you are greek, by definition an ethnocentric, a weirdo by default, do you not know there's a greek church just round the corner? Let alone your thick accent and not being an expert on weather changes, so as to be able to participate in stimulating rain-fog-clouds discussions. What do you do? Maybe pack everything and go back? But your job is here, your contract is here, and hey you enjoy it and you don't fancy the idea of giving up. I suppose, the eternal answer, "you do your best".

I don't know which state is comparatively harder, but I suppose they're likely to be equally hard, since it's the same devil that fights both of us. And the same Lord who's our Only Hope.
Be patient with us converts.
All I can say is as far as I'm concerned the spreading of Orthodoxy to the west in the last 10-15 years by God's Grace despite our own total unworthiness and unwillingness to act is just about the best thing I've seen in my life. And I don't think you need to ask for anyone's patience.

But what I actually wanted to say, this disease explained in the article, I don't think I would term it Convertitis, I'd probably term it IllsolehandedlysavetheChurch-itis :D :D. It's been around probably for as long as the Church itself has been around. We all very often tend to forget that the Church saves us, we don't save Her. In a sense, it is encouraging that Orthodoxy not only spreads, but also carries along Her diseases :).

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Thank you so much for sharing that, Cradle.:) As someone who is just beginning to strive for the Arc of Salvation, the sharing of your struggle will help me better appreciate and relate to those who were born into the Church.

[vanshan]

I appreciate your comments, craddle. Of course, we all have our struggles.

I don't follow Church politics much, but I do listen more than I should. I have convert friends who are very concerned about issues they consider to be of canonical importance -- it makes my head spin. On one side you have the modernists who judge the traditionalists as schismatics for wanting to strictly keep traditions. Then you have the traditionalists who think the changes made in modern jurisdictions collectively amount to too great a departure from traditional Orthodox practice.

More converts get caught up in these issue because they really want to taste and see the fullness of Orthodoxy. We have been like pilgrims walking in a desert for our entire lives, starving for the True Faith. It's hard to drink slowly when you find the deep well of Orthodoxy. We gulp it down immoderately. Even truth must be sipped slowly, I guess. Quickly, we fill our minds with all the doctrinal truths, so we think we know it all, but have failed to learn the importance of looking inward and trying to seek piety through our ascetic labors rather than through our minds. Forgive me.

Basil

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I appreciate your comments, craddle. Of course, we all have our struggles.

I don't follow Church politics much, but I do listen more than I should. I have convert friends who are very concerned about issues they consider to be of canonical importance -- it makes my head spin. On one side you have the modernists who judge the traditionalists as schismatics for wanting to strictly keep traditions. Then you have the traditionalists who think the changes made in modern jurisdictions collectively amount to too great a departure from traditional Orthodox practice.

More converts get caught up in these issue because they really want to taste and see the fullness of Orthodoxy. We have been like pilgrims walking in a desert for our entire lives, starving for the True Faith. It's hard to drink slowly when you find the deep well of Orthodoxy. We gulp it down immoderately. Even truth must be sipped slowly, I guess. Quickly, we fill our minds with all the doctrinal truths, so we think we know it all, but have failed to learn the importance of looking inward and trying to seek piety through our ascetic labors rather than through our minds. Forgive me.

BasilI couldn't agree more with that last paragraph, and especially the bold comments! You've eloquently expressed something I personally relate to, and I think many other converts as well.

[Photini]

I
More converts get caught up in these issue because they really want to taste and see the fullness of Orthodoxy. We have been like pilgrims walking in a desert for our entire lives, starving for the True Faith. It's hard to drink slowly when you find the deep well of Orthodoxy. We gulp it down immoderately. Even truth must be sipped slowly, I guess. Quickly, we fill our minds with all the doctrinal truths, so we think we know it all, but have failed to learn the importance of looking inward and trying to seek piety through our ascetic labors rather than through our minds. Forgive me.

Basil
This is so true....at least in my personal experience. It's only been three years since I began my journey to Orthodoxy...and I crammed so much information into my brain during the first two years. Your bolded comment above made me remember a quote I read by Elder Paisios of Mt. Athos....it went something like, "A strong person is the one who chews well, not the one who eats a lot." He said this in regards to spiritual studying.

[vanshan]

. . . Your bolded comment above made me remember a quote I read by Elder Paisios of Mt. Athos....it went something like, "A strong person is the one who chews well, not the one who eats a lot." He said this in regards to spiritual studying.

An excellent quote.

It makes me think of the story I've heard about holocaust survivors attributing their survival on chewing their food very well to release every ounce of nutrition in it. Our tendency when we are starving, both naturally and spiritually, is to gorge, but this does not aid us best. What a great analogy for us converts to remember!

Basil

[ExOrienteLux]

More converts get caught up in these issue because they really want to taste and see the fullness of Orthodoxy. We have been like pilgrims walking in a desert for our entire lives, starving for the True Faith. It's hard to drink slowly when you find the deep well of Orthodoxy. We gulp it down immoderately. Even truth must be sipped slowly, I guess. Quickly, we fill our minds with all the doctrinal truths, so we think we know it all, but have failed to learn the importance of looking inward and trying to seek piety through our ascetic labors rather than through our minds. Forgive me.

AMEN!!! This is of especial difficulty for me, because the Lord has blessed me with a sharper mind than most of those that I grew up around. I used to gauge my orthodoxy when I was a Protestant by how much doctrine I knew, especially during my brief stint with that most rationalistic of denominations, Presbyterianism.

I've been fighting to get my body to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays and during lents. It's not fun when your dad thinks you're in some weird cultic thingy because you don't drink milk or eat meat or cheese for about half of the year and when your mom gets a little frustrated at your picking out the meat when she makes spagetti or some such thing (I do try to make my own when I have time and I don't make an issue of it, seeing as it's perhaps more important to keep the peace than to stick to all the fasting rules inflexibly).

It's a fight, and I know it's always going to be, but hopefully it will become easier once I get chrismated and am able to be strengthened by the Holy Mysteries.

His sinful and unworthy servant,
Josh.

[Mary of Bethany]

I've been fighting to get my body to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays and during lents. It's not fun when your dad thinks you're in some weird cultic thingy because you don't drink milk or eat meat or cheese for about half of the year and when your mom gets a little frustrated at your picking out the meat when she makes spagetti or some such thing (I do try to make my own when I have time and I don't make an issue of it, seeing as it's perhaps more important to keep the peace than to stick to all the fasting rules inflexibly).

His sinful and unworthy servant,
Josh.
You're very insightful, Josh! I'm absolutely sure your Priest would tell you that it's more important for you, in your parents' home, to eat what is put in front of you (and lovingly cooked by your Mom) than to keep to an inflexible fast.

Mary

[Matthias]

I'd agree and disagree about your statement saying it is not easy to be a convert in Orthodoxy. It's easy if you just go with the flow, but hard if you must question every little thing...

If you want it easy; go with the flow.