i have a question

[CrystalBrooke]

:wave: hello all! i spend a lot of my time in OBOB, and i was wondering how you differ from them? i hope asking this doesnt offend anyone, if it does, just delete me, but i assure you, im just a curious Baptist:)

[Oblio]

:wave:

We always enjoy visitors Crystal and usually we do not delete them :D

Please enjoy your stay here, I am sure someone will answer your question or point you to the answer.

[Matrona]

Hello Crystal, nice to meet you! :wave:

The differences between us and Catholics can be confusing, so to help explain it all, here's our history...

In the early Christian Church, there were five major cities that had bishops called Patriarchs, and these cities were Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Rome. Whenever a major heresy affected the church, they would have these big meetings with every bishop that could come, called a council. They would work for months or years on figuring out what should be taught and what was heresy, and they would finally come out with a decision. If that decision was accepted by the entire Church, clergy and laypeople alike, the council that had declared it would be called "Ecumenical Council." (Ecumenical meaning that the council encompassed the whole church.)

We believe there are seven of those. The last one recognized by the Orthodox was held in 787, but we haven't had one since because no major heresies have threatened the Church, and due to persecutions (Crusaders, Ottomans, and Bolsheviks) it would have been very difficult from a practical standpoint.

Each Patriarch had a section of the church that he ran and nobody crossed into each other's territory. The patriarch of Rome was considered 'first among equals' but he didn't have any special powers or authority, and the church fathers back us up on that. In the Orthodox Church, all bishops--bishops, archbishops, and patriarchs--are equal, and in councils, each one gets one vote, no more no less. So a patriarch may be a patriarch, but in a council, he has only the same voting power as his archbishop, which is one vote.

But after the Church had thrived in the early years with this conciliar government, someone over on the West side decided that the Roman bishop deserved not just an honorary recognition, but a doctrinal one, too. That is, they wanted to make it so that the Patriarch of Rome could make certain decisions on his own without asking anyone else, and have his decisions bind on the whole Church. They decided to assert this authority by having the Patriarch of Rome add a few words to the Nicene Creed, the creed recited by the whole Church as a statement of belief.

Up to this time, everyone in the Church had said, "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father, who with..." So the patriarch of Rome, without asking anyone else or calling a council, declared that it was now Christian doctrine that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. This clause is called by its name in Latin, filioque. The patriarch of Constantinople said that not only did Rome not have authority to change the creed, what they were changing it to was incorrect!

So Rome excommunicated Constantinople and started the organization known today as the Catholic Church. The other Eastern patriarchs (Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem) agreed with Constantinople, so they stayed in communion and are today known as the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Catholicism and Orthodoxy are different in several ways. We call our worship the Divine Liturgy, and while they're similar in some ways, it's really quite a bit different from a Catholic mass. For one thing, nearly everything in the Liturgy is chanted or sung--the homily, and a few other little things are spoken, and that's it. We use incense in nearly every service, and icons are everywhere.

In an established parish, there will be a whole wall up at the front separating the sanctuary from the rest of the church, and there will be three doors in it through which the clergy pass during the service. This wall will have lots of icons on it, representing Christ and His Saints. In little mission parishes that cannot build a wall here, they will have icons on stands--music stands, a table with a picture easel on it, whatever they can manage.

Leavened bread is consecrated as our Lord's Body, and wine (mixed with a bit of water) is consecrated as His Blood. They are mixed together in a chalice, and the priest gives us communion with a golden spoon.

We have always allowed married men to be ordained priests. Nearly all parish priests are married. The requirement of priests to be celibate came about in the Catholic church long after the schism.

I will write some more later, but right now I have to get going or I'll be late for class. I'll be back later! :)

[CrystalBrooke]

great post! :D

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Good job, Matrona! You should write for Cliff Notes.:D

[ExOrienteLux]

Bravo, bravo! Here's to you! *raises his can of Diet Dr. Pepper* :D

Any other questions, Crystal? We don't bite at inquirers (for which I am very glad, seeing as I was one once too).

[CrystalBrooke]

after i learn more about orthodox, believe me i'll have many more questions;) i enjoy learning about religions im not familiar with. i have to go now, im having a choir lunch, but i'll be back to learn more tomorrow! :)

[kindredAngel777]

are the beliefs the same? as in praying and so on?

[Oblio]

are the beliefs the same? as in praying and so on?

The Catholic Church left Orthodoxy nearly 1000 years ago, 500 years before the Reformation and the formation of Protestant denominations. She has never experienced Dark Ages, a subsequent Renaissance, Elightenment or a Reformation as has occured in the West. Therefore it would be best to ask specifics of what we believe rather than to compare and contrast to the RCC.

[ExOrienteLux]

are the beliefs the same? as in praying and so on?I'm afraid you'll have to be just a little more specific. Are our beliefs the same as whose? What kind of praying do you mean?

after i learn more about orthodox, believe me i'll have many more questions;) i enjoy learning about religions im not familiar with. i have to go now, im having a choir lunch, but i'll be back to learn more tomorrow! :)Just let me tell you as someone who's getting ready to get ready to enter the Orthodox Church (that sounds weird, doesn't it? It's true, though), the best way to learn about Orthodoxy is to experience it. In other words, find a church near you and go to Liturgy on Sunday. Trust me, as an inquirer, it'll spawn a lot of questions.

*EDIT*
To expand on what Oblio said, something that often throws inquirers for a loop (it did it to me at first) is that not only does Orthodoxy have different answers to the questions that the West asks, it has a different set of questions. That's one of the big reasons that it's nigh-impossible to make catch-all statements about Orthodoxy.

There. That's enough bandwidth for me to be taking up right now.

[kindredAngel777]

just as to like baptist and methodist

[Oblio]

If you mean do we pray directly to God, the answer is yes. We also pray using our own words. Unlike Baptists, we also use ancient prayers written by men and women of the Church, Monks/Nuns and Theologians and Saints. We also ask for the intercession of the Saints of the Church Triumphant, that is, we ask them to pray before God on our behalf, much as you would ask a member of your congregation to do so for you.

[Mary of Bethany]

Hi to Crystal and kindredAngel -

I was Southern Baptist (not just nominal, either!) for the first 37 years of my life. It's very, very hard to understand Orthodoxy when Baptist is all you've ever known or learned about. My understanding of living a Christian life, and how I grow in my relationship to Christ is very different than it used to be. But the important part is that Jesus is Lord of our lives, and He is our Saviour, just as you Baptists know Him to be. And we know that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity, just as you do. And we read & study the Scriptures, as you do, except we don't interpret it individually. We trust the Church's authority and interpretation, which has been faithfully held to for 2000 years. But as ExOrienteLux said, in Orthodoxy - even the questions are different!

[Father Rick]

Crystal...

Let me preface this by saying I am Old Catholic, not Orthodox, so I differ from the EO on a few points...(OC's are kind of a hybrid of Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox-- but that's a whole 'nother story)

With that said, I want to encourage you in your studies. I come from a Protestant background myself, and at first some of the aspects of sacramental worship can seem really different. I challenge you to allow God to expand you view of just how big He is, and how rich the history of the Church is. There is so much more of Him than we can ever imagine.

Pax Christi!

[Cjwinnit]

(OC's are kind of a hybrid of Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox-- but that's a whole 'nother story)

Talk about the via media :D

[OrthodoxTexan]

To expand on what Oblio said, something that often throws inquirers for a loop (it did it to me at first) is that not only does Orthodoxy have different answers to the questions that the West asks, it has a different set of questions.hehe...good point.

[CrystalBrooke]

it would be nice to go to and Orthodox service, but as far as i know, there are none around here, we only have 2 catholic churches, with one priest taking care of them, well he passed away, so now there's a "temporary" priest filling in. i got to go to mass once, it was very very very different. how different is your service from mass?

[Oblio]

I can't tell which location your are at, if you are in the central part of the state you are closer to an Orthodox church than most of us :)

St Athanasius Church (http://www.oca.org/pages/directory/listing.asp?KEY=OCA-SO-NICSAC)

[Oblio]

Home website of St. Athanasius Church (http://athanasiusoca.org/)

[Mary of Bethany]

Home website of St. Athanasius Church (http://athanasiusoca.org/)
I don't have enough posts to link images, but there's a picture of my new priest, Fr. Seraphim, on their website. #15 under Ordinations: First Liturgy. He's the younger priest, on Archbp. DMITRI's left. He looks different . . . I guess his hair wasn't long enough yet to pull back in a ponytail. :D

[Oblio]

http://athanasiusoca.org/pictures/ordinations/first_liturgy/fl15.jpg

[Matrona]

I don't have enough posts to link images, but there's a picture of my new priest, Fr. Seraphim, on their website. #15 under Ordinations: First Liturgy. He's the younger priest, on Archbp. DMITRI's left. He looks different . . . I guess his hair wasn't long enough yet to pull back in a ponytail. :D
More clergy with ponytails? God, I love Your Church. :)

My godmother is a priest's kid, and her dad had once had a ponytail, but he'd recently cut it off. So one day in class she drew a picture of her dad in his cassock and a ponytail, but crossed out the ponytail. Below the picture she wrote the caption, "Papa don't got no more ponytail... but he still wears a dress!"

[ExOrienteLux]

it would be nice to go to and Orthodox service, but as far as i know, there are none around here, we only have 2 catholic churches, with one priest taking care of them, well he passed away, so now there's a "temporary" priest filling in. i got to go to mass once, it was very very very different. how different is your service from mass?
Well, I was going to post a summary of the Divine Liturgy for you, but CF decided to go retarded on me and log me out. Since I don't feel like taking an hour to retype my fairly detailed summary of the Liturgy, here's a link to a copy of the order of the service: http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html

I know you're going to have questions, so ask away!

I really wish CF hadn't made me lose my big long post. Of course, maybe that was the reason I lost it: it was really, really long. Probably over 5000 characters. This is starting to make me :mad: . I'll be ok, though.

His sinful and unworthy servant,
Josh

[Mary of Bethany]

Thank you, Oblio!

[CrystalBrooke]

instead of making all kinds of learning everything in one question, im just going to ask specific questions, that makes it easier for me to keep up. and if you dont mind im gonna ask them all in this thread.:)

question 1: what do you think about Purgatory?

[Matrona]

instead of making all kinds of learning everything in one question, im just going to ask specific questions, that makes it easier for me to keep up. and if you dont mind im gonna ask them all in this thread.:)

question 1: what do you think about Purgatory?
Purgatory is not in Orthodox teaching. Most Orthodox don't believe in it.

I was, however, sent to Purgatory by the Dante's Inferno quiz. ;)

[MariaRegina]

Purgatory is not in Orthodox teaching. Most Orthodox don't believe in it.

I was, however, sent to Purgatory by the Dante's Inferno quiz. ;)

I think that is the whole purpose of that quiz. So according to them, Purgatory is the only way to escape hell.
:D

We are to repent and be purified in this life. At our Holy Baptism and Chrismation, we are purified, illuminated and sanctified.

So, in a sense, we suffer purgatory today while we are alive. [Note, this is not "official" Orthodox teaching]

The Orthodox have never had a doctrine defining purgatory.

[CrystalBrooke]

ok...what about contraceptives? use them, dont use them? why?

[Orthosdoxa]

ok...what about contraceptives? use them, dont use them? why?
They are not ideal, esp. if the couple is using them for selfish reasons. However, the Church recognizes that in some cases they may be necessary. It is something the couple will have to work out with their spiritual father.

Katherine

[Matthias]

However, Matrona, they don't say there is absolutely no Purgatory, so we as Orthodox are welcome to believe in Purgatory if we so wish to do so.

[ExOrienteLux]

I'm almost positive that Purgatory is a theologuemena (sp?), as opposed to a dogma. In other words, we don't have to believe in it, but as far as I know, no one has officially condemned the belief, so there's no consensus one way or the other. Of course, there's a large possibility that I'm wrong.

His sinful and unworhty servant,
Josh.

[Matrona]

However, Matrona, they don't say there is absolutely no Purgatory, so we as Orthodox are welcome to believe in Purgatory if we so wish to do so.
Who's "we"? You are not Orthodox. And I never said Purgatory isn't something an Orthodox Christian can believe; much like a young child is welcome to believe in the Easter Bunny and will not be excommunicated for it.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Who's "we"? You are not Orthodox. And I never said Purgatory isn't something an Orthodox Christian can believe; much like a young child is welcome to believe in the Easter Bunny and will not be excommunicated for it.
LOL. That's a good analogy. I asked a priest about this once and his only comment was "Pergatory is not an Orthodox belief."

BTW, I say "we" quite a bit when I refer to the Orthodox faith, though I am not yet chrismated. I'm sorry if this has offended anyone. I usually don't even think about it when I do it because I feel converted already, know what I mean? I'll try to be more careful in the future.

[Matrona]

LOL. That's a good analogy. I asked a priest about this once and his only comment was "Pergatory is not an Orthodox belief."

BTW, I say "we" quite a bit when I refer to the Orthodox faith, though I am not yet chrismated. I'm sorry if this has offended anyone. I usually don't even think about it when I do it because I feel converted already, know what I mean? I'll try to be more careful in the future.
I'm not offended by sincere inquirers identifying themselves as Orthodox!! :)

My problem is when one claims to be Orthodox, but turns around and professes allegiance to the Vatican. You yourself have done no such thing. :hug:

[MariaRegina]

Actually, none of us should be using the word WE.

There is a legitimate use of 'we' as when the Church gathers together in an Ecumenical Council, or prays the Divine Liturgy, as in the prayer

"We praise Thee, we bless Thee, we glorify Thee, and we give thank unto Thee, O Lord our God."

Neither should one say, "we believe in toll houses," because this was never taught by the WHOLE Church.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Actually, none of us should be using the word WE.

There is a legitimate use of 'we' as when the Church gathers together in an Ecumenical Council, or prays the Divine Liturgy, as in the prayer

"We praise Thee, we bless Thee, we glorify Thee, and we give thank unto Thee, O Lord our God."

Neither should one say, "we believe in toll houses," because this was never taught by the WHOLE Church.
What are toll houses? Chocolate chip cookies come to mind......:yum:

[Oblio]

What are toll houses? Chocolate chip cookies come to mind......:yum:

A topic for another thread :)

Seriously ;)

[Photini]

What are toll houses? Chocolate chip cookies come to mind......:yum:
Must....resist......posting.....Oh, don't even get me started!

[ExOrienteLux]

Oh, Photini! I gave in and started a new thread about this. Don't fight the temptation, because I'm curious about learning about them myself.

His sinful and unworthy servant,
Josh.

[Photini]

Oh, Photini! I gave in and started a new thread about this. Don't fight the temptation, because I'm curious about learning about them myself.

His sinful and unworthy servant,
Josh.
One of my favorite subjects! LoL! Argh!

[Oblio]

One of my favorite subjects! LoL! Argh!

Mine too

They always seem to eventually need supervision :sigh:

/me puts mod hat under arm and sits on the sidelines of the new tollhouse thread ...

[Matthias]

Who's "we"? You are not Orthodox.You are hardly one to make that judgement. How long have you been Orthodox? Not long at all, as I seem to recall. I'll keep calling myself Orthodox, whether or not you like it...

[Matthias]

You know how the saying goes...

[ExOrienteLux]

Well, now that this thread has gotten sufficiently off-topic and led me to spawn another thread, I think it's time to get back to the original topic, donchathink?

Crystal and/or kindredAngel and/or any other inquirers who've been reading this: got any other questions that we might be able to possible answer, while we confuse you and ourselves? ;)

[Matthias]

Again, this question pops up on a weekly basis! I admire the time everyone obviously has on their hands to be answering the SAME questions week after week, in so much detail!

I take my hat off to you all!