Allah or Jesus - Is this story true?

[MariaRegina]

"Allah or Jesus?"...

Good for us all to know and remember Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.

During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your email contacts.

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in prison ministry.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Uh, I have strong doubts that this story ever happened. It sounds like a skit that evangelical street ministries would perform.;)

WAIT, I think I acted in that one........I played the part of the warden. ^_^

[Kripost]

I don't think this story ever happened. The first two questions sound too much like strawman premises. And if the Iman was asked such a question, it is far more likely that he would have given more than one-line answers, especially in a multi-religious meeting so as to clarify what they believe. Furthermore, the answer to the first question (regarding the killing if infidels) was far too reckless, and any Iman would know how not to put themselves in such a difficult position.

Given the fact that the Iman made only simplistic answers, and hardly made any attempt to defend himself, I think the story is false.

[The Prokeimenon!]

I also doubt it's true. I've actually been reading stuff from a website about urban legends (http://www.snopes.com/religion/religion.asp?music=off) and this sounds like just the kind of thing you'd find there. If I were to write this story, it would involve an Orthodox Priest and an Imam, and by the end we'd have Constantinople back ;)

Moses

[Moros]

Not true.

[The Prokeimenon!]

The more I think about it (assuming the story isn't true,) it's just plain sad to think that people have to stoop to making stuff up and calling it true in order to defend their Religion (or, more accurately, to attack somebody else's.) Real Christianity can be defended with Truth, but considering what passes for Christianity sometimes, it's not surprising that people have to do this kind of thing.

Aria, where did this story come from? It has that kind of "forwarded e-mail" ring to it, but I'd be interested in seeing if I can track down the origin.

Moses

[Oblio]

Folks,

There is one word in these things ... Snopes (http://www.snopes.com) !

Imam is questioned about Islamic attitude toward infidels (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp)

Bookmark it !

[MariaRegina]

TRUE, from Rick's perspective.
Spin Zone from the Prison's perspective

http://www.charityadvantage.com/missiongateministry/Editorials.asp

The URL above is the website my source quoted (just now). It's interesting that the site you gave, Oblio, said that the story appears to be true from Rick's perspective, but was given a spin by the prison authorities. So it was probably true. Did the prison authorities give it a spin, probably. Reminds me of The O'Reilly's Factor.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Maybe this guy trades material with Jack Chick on occasion. Before you know it, we'll be seeing this story in comic strip form.;) Perhaps the hero Christian will even get to wear a cape.

[MariaRegina]

Maybe this guy trades material with Jack Chick on occasion. Before you know it, we'll be seeing this story in comic strip form.;) Perhaps the hero Christian will even get to wear a cape.

I haven't searched his site - but the guy is trying to present the truth in a bad environment that most people avoid.

Here's what one reader said on Rick's site:

Reader responds to Snopes:

Whether or not the Muslim who gave the presentation was an inmate of an "official" Imam from outside the prison system is irrelevant. The man evidently had enough qualifications to represent the beliefs of the Islamic faith or he would not have been asked to make the presentation. As far as the official response by the gentleman from the Missouri Department of Corrections is concerned, I believe you need to examine the response in light of the political reality of his position in this situation. It is well documernted that within the prison systems across our nation, the Islamic faith has been growing by leaps and bounds - particularly among the African American inmate populations. Missouri is no exception. If I were in the prison officials position I would have probably said the same thing to avoid the possibility of a "holy war" within my prison system. Aside from that, I understand that he wasn't even present when the event took place. Last, but not least, I find it amusing that those within the Islamic faith who were contacted for comment were offended and denied the crux of the point which Mr. Mathes was making. I would highly suggest that you read the Koran, which is quite explicit as to the fate of those who are identified as "infidels". I might also remind those reading this that it was the followers of Muhammad - not Christ - that destroyed the World Trade Center buildings killing thousands of innocent "infidels"; Muslims are killing our troops in Iraq - not Christians. Need I say more?

[Eusebios]

Aria,
Exactly what are you trying to say here? I'm :confused:
Are you saying that you accept this piece of trash? I certainly hope not. Set me straight. Please?
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
http://www.christianforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16090&stc=1

[MariaRegina]

Aria,
Exactly what are you trying to say here? I'm :confused:
Are you saying that you accept this piece of trash? I certainly hope not. Set me straight. Please?
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
http://www.christianforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16090&stc=1

Dear Eusebios:

Frankly, I don't know. But I sense that the prison authorities are siding with the muslims, maybe in fear, but it's true that many prisoners are converting to islam. So perhaps we are being given a spin job by the prison authorities.

Were the prison authorities threatened or blackmailed? We aren't being told the truth by the CIA, FBI, etc., so how can we trust the prison authorities who have a lot of dangerous muslim gang members to appease?

Have you read any of Rick's site? My eyes are blurring so I really cannot - that is why I asked in the first place. I want to be fair to Rick and not be the first to cast a stone.

Isn't that the Christian thing to do? Judge not?

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

[Eusebios]

Aria,
My daughter is a Muslim, and as far as I know, neither she or her friends are on a "jihad" against me, or anyone else. The whole prison thing reeks of overblown scare tactics, and I for one do not appreciate it.
Don

[MariaRegina]

Dear Don,

I also have met some wonderful muslims at my university, non-religious muslims who really don't know the Quran and who are very ethical. They are interested in Christianity since we are the people of the Book.

However, I did some research on Islam for two of my university classes and learned that when muslims have kids they can suddenly get religion and become fundamentalists who will support jihad. There are lots of scary true stories.

I didn't tell you this, but I went on a date with a muslim before I met my husband. He tried to rape me and then wanted to fly me to Iran and marry me that night. I really prayed and Christ got me out of that dangerous situation. That was the last time I dated a muslim.

Finally, I wanted to let you know that I did scan a few of Rick's articles and discovered that he seems to be brash, which is not in the spirit of Christ. Evangelists should be people who can convey the love of Christ to their enemies, shouldn't they?

Hope this helps.

Love in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

[Akathist]

Once again, we have wandered into an area that I have a background in and am not just some "inquirer" asking basic questions.

Having worked in the "largest walled prison in the world" with violent offenders, I will tell you that the Muslims rule the roost. The Islam of the prison system is NOT the same as what one would read in the Koran. They pick what they want and drop the rest as "out dated". (or simply trivial enough to be ignored.) Their real god is "Death" or maybe "Destruction" but they don't acknowledge this of course. In a few cases, there are genuine followers of that faith who are not problematic. (And typically if seen as devout Muslim's, are protected from harm.) However, this is like a prison gang in other respects. (Only there doesn't appear to be a clear leadership accross different states or regions, from the outside looking in as the bloods and other prison gangs have.)

Taken out of their group (or gang) these are just men who have had a very difficult life and I have had many of them in tears in my office within an hour. It would not surprise me to have one man titled an "Inman" who was really from inside the prison have trouble answering such pointed questions.

It would also not surprise me if all three faiths were not represented by inmates, as is often the case, these trainings are in answer to won law suits by prisoners who have made a case for discrimination in treatment based upon their faith.

Now, all that I state here about the original post is this: Based upon my experience, it could be true. But of course, only God knows for sure.

[MariaRegina]

Aria,
My daughter is a Muslim, and as far as I know, neither she or her friends are on a "jihad" against me, or anyone else. The whole prison thing reeks of overblown scare tactics, and I for one do not appreciate it.
Don

Boy, I'd like to hear about your conversion experience!

[Eusebios]

What does that mean? I'm sure my conversion story is much the same as most, Protestant of varied stripes who found the True Church. My Daughter is an adult convert to Islam. I'm not sure I like the attitude you are conveying.
In XP,
Eusebios.

[MariaRegina]

What does that mean? I'm sure my conversion story is much the same as most, Protestant of varied stripes who found the True Church. My Daughter is an adult convert to Islam. I'm not sure I like the attitude you are conveying.
In XP,
Eusebios.

Sorry,

I thought you might have been a muslim previously.

I've talked to some in my parish who are recent converts from Islam, and they have quite a story to tell. In just about every story, Christ personally appears to them. One muslim woman asked to see an icon of Christ, and said that Christ looked very much like the icon I showed her. Her face showed it all.

These converts cannot share their new found faith with their relatives under pain of death. Neither can they go back to the old country for fear that relatives would kill them. If you would check the site below, you will discover some true stories of conversions and a wealth of information. Some of these people I know personally.

www.islamreview.com - a Coptic Orthodox site

On the other hand, look at this scary site and you will discover what some muslims believe.

http://www.islamreview.org/ --- Warning: a very anti-Western muslim site

Hope this helps.

Lovingly yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

[MariaRegina]

www.islamreview.com

from the above website:

Islam in Fast Demise

In Africa Alone Everyday, 16,000 Muslims
Leave Islam

By Ali Sina

Hitler said if a lie is repeated often enough and long enough, it would come to be perceived as truth. One such lie often repeated is “Islam is the fastest growing religion”.

Despite the fact that Muslims by virtue of being poor and uneducated are much more reproductive than others, Islam as a religion is not growing but dying fast.

More and more Muslims are discovering that the violence evinced by some of their coreligionists is not an aberration but is inspired by the teachings of the Quran and the examples set by its author. Muslims are becoming disillusioned with Islam. They find out that the mechanistic ritual of praying five times per day, reciting verses that they do not understand and indeed mean nothing, getting up at taxing hours of the morning and abstaining from food and water until the sunset are not means to becoming more spiritual but are instruments to control their mind. These enlightened Muslims no more heed to the fear mongering verses of the Quran that threaten to burn them and roast them in the fires of hell if they dare to think and question the validity of that book.

Every day thousands of Muslim intellectuals are leaving Islam. They find Islam inconsistent with science, logics, human rights and ethics. Millions of Iranians already have left Islam. The enlightened Muslims of other nationalities are not far behind. This is the beginning of a mass exodus from Islam. It is a movement that is already in motion and nothing can stop it.

However the exodus from Islam is not reserved to the intellectuals but also the average Muslims are finding that Islam is not the way to God but to ignorance, poverty and wars. They are leaving Islam to embrace other religions especially the Christianity.

Perhaps it is best to listen to the truth coming from the mouth of the horse. The Internet site aljazeera.net published an interview with Ahmad Al Qataani ???? ???????? An important Islamic cleric who said: “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."

What Muslims say among each other, is not the same thing that they say for the consumption of the Westerners.

Al Qataani and al Jazeera Network were alarmed by these huge numbers of Muslims leaving Islam, but humanity must rejoice over these numbers. The weakening of Islam means the triumph of mankind.

The following is part of the transcript of Al Jazeera's Interview with Al Qataani translated to English. Here is the original transcript in Arabic

Maher Abdallah:
Dear viewers, peace of Allah be upon you, greetings and welcome to a new episode of the program Islamic Law and Life.

Our topic this evening will be Christianization in the Dark Continent ... Africa. For after Islam was the religion of the majority, the great majority of that continent, the number of Muslims now is no greater than a third of the population. This is taking into consideration, of course, that a large portion of this group are Arab Muslims. No doubt that the missions of evangelization and Christianization played a great role in this demographic shift of Muslims in the continent.

[Oblio]

Reader responds to Snopes:

Whether or not the Muslim who gave the presentation was an inmate of an "official" Imam from outside the prison system is irrelevant.


It is relevant if we are interested in the 'truth' of the story. What if I gave a talk on Orthodoxy and the story fabricated was that I was an Archbishop. Irrelevant ??

Not that I don't believe that the counterfeit NoI being perpetrated in our country isn't a threat and is spreading among our inmate population, but exagerations and deception are not the way of our Lord.

[The Prokeimenon!]

When discussing prisons, I prefer to focus on Johnny Cash records. ;)



Moses

[tizziale]

I love this website: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/i/infidels.htm and it goes to lengths to try to verify the story.

Rusty

[Oblio]

The Truth
We contacted Rick Mathes, founder of Mission Gate Prison Ministries in Chesterfield, Missouri, and he stands by his story.


I am from Chesterfield Mo. Trust no one from there :D

[Matthias]

I highly doubt the story is true.

[countrymousenc]

Unfortunately, there are far too many para-church organizations that are willing to employ less than truthful tactics. Disappointing to see it happening again.