Pre-tribulation or Post-tribulation?

[SaintGeorge]

What are the Church's teachings regarding the issue of living in a pre-tribulational world (before Revalations) vs. a post-tribulational world (during Revalations)?

I think that we live in a pre-tribulational world myself, but I've heard about people counting the seals being opened thus far and making comments like, "yes, we're definitely on the third seal now".

Is it just me, or does the practice of trying to guess where we are in Revalations seem pointless? Afterall, we should be serving God, not debating how the antichrist will come, right or wrong?

What does the Church have to say about all this?

[CyberSponge]

What are the Church's teachings regarding the issue of living in a pre-tribulational world (before Revalations) vs. a post-tribulational world (during Revalations)?

I think that we live in a pre-tribulational world myself, but I've heard about people counting the seals being opened thus far and making comments like, "yes, we're definitely on the third seal now".

Is it just me, or does the practice of trying to guess where we are in Revalations seem pointless? Afterall, we should be serving God, not debating how the antichrist will come, right or wrong?

What does the Church have to say about all this?

"huh?"

[ufonium2]

Is it just me, or does the practice of trying to guess where we are in Revalations seem pointless? Afterall, we should be serving God, not debating how the antichrist will come, right or wrong?

It's not just you. It's our Church, and it should be everybody. The Second Coming is the one thing that Jesus told us we couldn't know about. He told us it was none of our business, yet some of us still spend our whole lives thinking and debating about it. It's amazing, really.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Orthodoxy teaches it's faithful to be very careful when reading books like The Apocalypse (Revelation) and parts of Daniel. These are apocalyptic literature and only a trained biblical theologian can begin to make any sense of them. Orthodoxy also reiterates what Christ says when he warns that the end of times will come very quietly and without much warning, like a thief in the night. Thus all debate and worry over the end times is really quite useless and unfruitful because it has no bearing on what actually will happen. I just would love to know where the whole thing with being pre-trib, post-trib etc. came from because it clearly is unbiblical?

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Orthodoxy teaches it's faithful to be very careful when reading books like The Apocalypse (Revelation) and parts of Daniel. These are apocalyptic literature and only a trained biblical theologian can begin to make any sense of them. Orthodoxy also reiterates what Christ says when he warns that the end of times will come very quietly and without much warning, like a thief in the night. Thus all debate and worry over the end times is really quite useless and unfruitful because it has no bearing on what actually will happen. I just would love to know where the whole thing with being pre-trib, post-trib etc. came from because it clearly is unbiblical?
AFAIK, the whole pre-trib/mid-trib/post-trib thing has come about from the false doctrine of "The Rapture" (Christ comes "secretly" to snatch up his people before the official 2nd coming). The rapture theory is pretty new, 19th century, isn't it? It was started by a mentally ill woman in Great Britain. Does anyone remember her name?

[Reader Nilus]

On the Second Coming of Christ (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ec_secondcoming.htm)
On the Thousand Year Reign (Chiliasm) (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ec_thousandyearreign.htm)
The Calamity of Chiliasm Dennis Eugene Engleman (http://www.orthovox.org/orthovox/03-08engleman.htm)
Those 3 links give somewhat of the views of Orthodox on the Last Days. Chiliasm was condemned as a heresy, for the reason that it led to unending speculations that had nothing to do with Christian life. To answer the OP we are post tribulation, as the tribulation began at the very beginning. The first Martyr was St Stephen and the blood has not stopped flowing. The Coptic Church has endured 1600 years of tribulation.
Genocide1915.info - The Armenian Genocide Recognition Struggle! (http://www.genocide1915.info/agus.asp)
In Memory Of The 50 Million Victims Of The Orthodox Christian Holocaust (http://www.fr-d-serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm)
GOLGOTHA:Of Kosovo Serbs and Minority Groups in Post-war Kosovo (http://www.kosovo.com/default2.html)
Orthodox know tribulation! The above 3 links all have happened in the last 100 years! So when we hear the rose colored fantasies of the dispensationalists and their rapture, we know they are deluded from our own experience.
Jeff the Finn

[jkotinek]

There is a good exposition on this teaching and Orthodox eschatology, including some very helpful Patristic commentary at:

http://yya.oca.org/pages/ChurchwidePrograms/Yo_Mail/back-issues/2001-05-07.htm