Puling out when having sex

[Bryan Cotton]

First my full question then a biblical reference, then another question.

The full question is "Is it wrong to have sex with your wife and then pulling out so you don't get her pregnant."

In Geneisis Onan did this. I guess back then if your brother died and had no children you were to get your brothers widow pregnant to let his lineage carry on. I don't think this was part of the law, it could have been a custom. not sure.

Ge 38:9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.Ge 38:10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.


Which brings me to my other question, which action displeased God, Onan spilling his seed on the ground or not carrying out the "law, tradition, custom or whatever it was" of not carrying on his brother's lineage when he didnt get his brothers wife pregnant?

[kellyc]

it's wrong if you don't want to have a baby! use another form of birth control if you want to be sure, if in fact this is a serious question.
what displeased God was onan sleeping with his brother's wife, and trying to hide it by not getting her pg.

[Wade Smith]

what displeased God was onan sleeping with his brother's wife, and trying to hide it by not getting her pg.


Actually, Onan wasn't hiding anything. Onan was married to her.

The "law of Moses", which was really the "law of God", was not yet given, but this same law actually is in the Law of God.

This tradition was a law of God already given to man.

When one brother died, the other brother, or the next closest male kin, was supposed to mary the woman and have children through her. This is the law of the "kinsman redeemer" which is what the Book of Ruth is all about, which typifies Christ.


When Onan "pulled out" as you say, he was violating God's law, and in essence, saying he didn't need a redeemer. It was more than just a sexual sin, it was a spiritual rebellion against God for not obeying the Word of God.

God's law said that the man was supposed to mary her and give her seed, and he did not, and God killed him for it. Simple as that.

[LoisGriffin]

If you want to avoid pregnancy then pull and pray method is not the way to go.

Get some proper birth control.

[kellyc]

:kiss:Actually, Onan wasn't hiding anything. Onan was married to her.

The "law of Moses", which was really the "law of God", was not yet given, but this same law actually is in the Law of God.

This tradition was a law of God already given to man.

When one brother died, the other brother, or the next closest male kin, was supposed to mary the woman and have children through her. This is the law of the "kinsman redeemer" which is what the Book of Ruth is all about, which typifies Christ.


When Onan "pulled out" as you say, he was violating God's law, and in essence, saying he didn't need a redeemer. It was more than just a sexual sin, it was a spiritual rebellion against God for not obeying the Word of God.

God's law said that the man was supposed to mary her and give her seed, and he did not, and God killed him for it. Simple as that.

you are right, i should have read more carefully. the point i did not make very well was the fact that the pull out was not in itself the sin.

[Bryan Cotton]

God's law said that the man was supposed to mary her and give her seed, and he did not, and God killed him for it. Simple as that.

So Onan died because he went againts God's law? So when he let his seed spill to the ground, it was not that act that got him killed but him not giving his wife (his brothers widower) a child? If so that's how I read it but was not sure. I've heard different interpretation on it

use another form of birth control if you want to be sure

If you want to avoid pregnancy then pull and pray method is not the way to go.
Get some proper birth control.

So Kelly and Lois, is birth controll right, biblically speaking?

[Bryan Cotton]

:kiss:

the point i did not make very well was the fact that the pull out was not in itself the sin.
Yea, I think thats my bottom line. Was the act of pulling out and spilling his seed on the ground displeasing to God or was it him not upholding giving his wife (brother's widower) child.

THATS what i'm struggling with. Beyond that comes the birth control issue...which really should be a seperate threat maybe

[kellyc]

well, why do you think that the pull out part is the sin? because you think birth control might be like abortion?
i would say my opinion is that it is not, because it prevents conception from taking place.

[Bryan Cotton]

well, why do you think that the pull out part is the sin? because you think birth control might be like abortion?
i would say my opinion is that it is not, because it prevents conception from taking place.

I'm not sure if the pull out part is a sin or not. That's why I posted the thread.

I don't know if birth control is like abortion unless you see aborting as controlling. Abort is prevention something after it started and controlling is making sure it never starts.

Pretty much my post is trying to see if the pulling ou t poart is a sin. When you mention birth controll, that made me bring up the question if its ok in regards to the bible.

Man I love these fast responses. You all are really helping me. Thanks

[kellyc]

so pulling out is controlling, so i think that it would be ok, but i don't think it's been proven to be an effective form of bc. in fact, what do you call people who use that method? parents.

[Artificial Intelligence]

So Onan died because he went againts God's law? So when he let his seed spill to the ground, it was not that act that got him killed but him not giving his wife (his brothers widower) a child? If so that's how I read it but was not sure.
Wade is correct. This reply was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read even the topic title, many are confused about this and often reference this passage. He was command to produce a baby, but he refused. Has nothing to do with you or I.





As for the remarks on birth control, use caution regard what is used. The morning after pill (ru486) is wrong as well as the regular birth control pill. In both cases they are designed to destroy after conception.

[Kasih]

Onan was punished because he would never accept his responsibility to father a child not the pull out.

[Bryan Cotton]

so pulling out is controlling, so i think that it would be ok,
Ok. Thanks for the answer.

but i don't think it's been proven to be an effective form of bc. in fact, what do you call people who use that method? parents.

True. But this post wasnt about birth control. Although not all people who "pull out" are parents from using that method. That I know for sure. BUT, I totally see your point :)


As for the remarks on birth control, use caution regard what is used. The morning after pill (ru486) is wrong as well as the regular birth control pill. In both cases they are designed to destroy after conception.

Not only that, but they are wishy washy. I work with two females who used the pill and used it correctly and STILL got pregnant. Same thing with getting your tubes tied. I've read that even woman who had that done still got pregnant.

Onan was punished because he would never accept his responsibility to father a child not the pull out.

Thanks for your response.

I've only been on here a few days and im LOVING this site.

Thanks again everyone

[bliz]

The tale of Onan is not a good starting point for a conversation about birth control.

[sacredsin]

First my full question then a biblical reference, then another question.

The full question is "Is it wrong to have sex with your wife and then pulling out so you don't get her pregnant."

In Geneisis Onan did this. I guess back then if your brother died and had no children you were to get your brothers widow pregnant to let his lineage carry on. I don't think this was part of the law, it could have been a custom. not sure.

Ge 38:9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.Ge 38:10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.


Which brings me to my other question, which action displeased God, Onan spilling his seed on the ground or not carrying out the "law, tradition, custom or whatever it was" of not carrying on his brother's lineage when he didnt get his brothers wife pregnant?

No and no non-denominationals (reletives) have ever told me it was so this concept is foreign to me. Contraception was also encouraged too..

[eNathans]

Let's get down to some logic and facts. I hope this can help clear up some concerns about pulling out.

Is pulling out wrong? Most certiantly not. If you hare having sex within a moral context, pulling out would be no less wrong than any other form of birth control. The debate over weather or not birth control is justified is another one. I believe b/c is fine within marriage. Also, the argument that pulling out is "wasting potential life" (which I have heard some people use) is quite ridiculous.

Is pulling out effective: from fda.gov on "Consumer-Friendly Birth Control Information" (Unfortinatly I cannot post the direct link due to forum rules, so you'll have to google it):

Withdrawal: typical use = 19%
Withdrawal: absolutly proper use: 4%


Effectiveness of a particular method of [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] control is measured in the percent of pregnancy rates over the period of one year by the average sexually active couple.

So really, the pull-out method only increases your risk of getting pregnant by about 5%. It is a myth that pre-ejaculatary fluids cause pregnancy.

Again, I highly suggest that you use a better form of birth control, but the Bible clearly does not discriminate against any particular form of b/c. If you feel in your heart that sex for intimacy reasons (rather than repproduction only) is morally sound, I wouldn't worry then.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Again, I highly suggest that you use a better form of birth control, but the Bible clearly does not discriminate against any particular form of b/c. If you feel in your heart that sex for intimacy reasons (rather than repproduction only) is morally sound, I wouldn't worry then.Abortion is considered "birth control" by many. Now they even are considering post-birth "abortion" as legitimate. "The pill" is simply a chemical abortion, as well as the morning after pill is.

[Bryan Cotton]

The tale of Onan is not a good starting point for a conversation about birth control.
I agree. This post was not ment to tackle birth control. It wa ment to get an explination of a certain act in the bible and more importantly, to get an understainding of a particular verse

Contraception was also encouraged too..
Really? I'd like to get some scriptures on that or any information in regards to that. If its a lot to post, feel free to send me a PM or email


Again, I highly suggest that you use a better form of birth control, but the Bible clearly does not discriminate against any particular form of b/c. If you feel in your heart that sex for intimacy reasons (rather than repproduction only) is morally sound, I wouldn't worry then.
I never ment for this to be a b/c thread. i was just trying to capture what was going on with Onan in Genesis 38. I did not mean it to be about methods of b/c, i meant it to found out why God was displease with Onan.

[sacredsin]

[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Really? I'd like to get some scriptures on that or any information in regards to that. If its a lot to post, feel free to send me a PM or email



Scripture to what my relatives believed? Well I believe my catholic relatives would disagree but I was thinking of my non-denom. family members. Obviously my parents had no problem with contraceptives since I found their condoms when I was like 12. *shrugs* I couldn't tell you any scripture, just what my family went by and still goes by. I've talked to family members about it before and they agree with contraception.

[Bryan Cotton]

Obviously my parents had no problem with contraceptives since I found their condoms when I was like 12. *shrugs*

To get off topic a little bit, was that a traumadic experience for you to find your parents condoms? Like, at 12, the thought of my parents doing anything sexual was repulsive. :)

[sacredsin]

To get off topic a little bit, was that a traumadic experience for you to find your parents condoms? Like, at 12, the thought of my parents doing anything sexual was repulsive. :)

Lol yeah a little plus at that age sex seemed really bad so it was kind of taboo. I eventually recovered. Lol.

[fabulous beast]

lol Kelly.
that would be me :) lol
Best oops ive ever made in my life!
I loves my baby girl :)

[kellyc]

hehe! it was a good accident!

[plmarquette]

using coitus interruptus...is not a good form of birth control

the verse is talking about a guy doing himself, rather than having sex with his brothers widow... so the name will continue...

that is why God was angered...he did not do what the law instructed him to ...out of contempt for the woman or anger with his brother or selfishness on his part...

do you not want children ever...or at this time....

[Ghettoflame]

I may be wrong, but it seems that the man was punished for not doing something he should have, which I am guessing was this: having a child. Humbly, I'll say that I could be very wrong. If he was jacking off and not even having sexual relations, ew.

[twistedsketch]

I believe the sin was not having children for his brother, rather than spilling the seed.

[RisingAbove]

All I can say is...

Why would someone who is married want to pull out? Use contraception if that's what you want to do. I understand the Catholic view that contraception is wrong, and it is if the married couple just doesn't want to have kids and can afford it, IMHO. As for those who can't afford to have kids or the timing isn't right yet, then it's fine.

[RisingAbove]

Oh yea, and I was always told that Onan was masturbating, thus spilling his seed on the ground.

[Bryan Cotton]

All I can say is...

Why would someone who is married want to pull out? Use contraception if that's what you want to do.

It's my undersatanding that couples generally feel condoms is the most reliable source of contraception, but it take away from the pleasure of intercourse for both male and female. Diaphrams (sp?) or not as reliable and more of a hassle to put in place before intercourse and the sponge and foam and what not are not as reliable as condoms.

But this is only from couples I've spoken with.

So its for more enjoyability I guess.

[RisingAbove]

So its for more enjoyability I guess.

God created sex to be beautiful and enjoyable for the married couple... but I seriously wonder where many of the statements stand on procreation. Also, there is a way to have sex and not make any intentions on having children. There is a Catholic concept of NFP (Natural Family Planning) and there is also the concept of working around a woman's ovulation period in which she can become impregnated, yes it may take a lot of work, but it seems better than pulling out.

Personally, I'm just not a fan of the pulling out idea... But then again, I'm not married.

[cowboysfan1970]

People who believe that sex is only for procreation will often use the sin of Onan to back up their beliefs.

[Cassidy]

Hormonal contraceptives do have abortive properties - just so you know :)

Any other form of birth control is find as far as I can see...it had better be...I have 5 kids already and another on the way.....and my body cannot take anymore LOL

You'd have to ask too....there is that scripture (can't remember where it is) that when the baby is in the belly it is 'secret' so does that mean when we have ultrasounds we are sinning? Cos I has a U/S yesterday ;)

[Floatingaxe]

If you want lots of babies, go ahead and try it.

[Bryan Cotton]

and there is also the concept of working around a woman's ovulation period in which she can become impregnated, yes it may take a lot of work, but it seems better than pulling out.

Yea, im totally aware of that too :)

[Floatingaxe]

Funny thread title!

Did you know that "puling" means "whining"? http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/whiner_baby.png

[Bryan Cotton]

You'd have to ask too....there is that scripture (can't remember where it is) that when the baby is in the belly it is 'secret' so does that mean when we have ultrasounds we are sinning? Cos I has a U/S yesterday ;)

I'm not ready to tackle that yey but I've often wondered about that:)

I'll keep this on my short list ;)

[Svt4Him]

Do you know what you call people who use this method of BC?



Parents.


Onan's sin was taking the pleasure of marriage without the responsibility of marriage, and for a woman in that situation, that was a serious offense. Shows God still cared about people and families.