question on Isaiah 14:12 Hebrew word.

[LittleLambofJesus]

Shalom. May I ask someone knowedgeble in the Hebrew if this Hebrew word in Red is the same exact word form as in Zech 11:2 as we have a tread on it concerning "Lucifer"

To me, it looks like both words would translate to "howl". Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Originally Posted by LamorakDesGalis http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=48702410#post48702410) Here is the same Hebrew text you quoted, only enlarged:

Isaiah 14:12

יב אֵיךְ נָפַלְתָּ מִשָּׁמַיִם, הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר; נִגְדַּעְתָּ




But you said it differed than the one used in Zech 11:2 but they show the same here. That is why I asked where you saw the difference at. I checked the website, the vowel pointing isn't the same. In Isaiah 14:12 its sere (two dots), while in Zech 11:2 its patach (line).

The Masoretic text in Isaiah 14:12 is pointed as "helel."
Zech 11:2

בהֵילֵל בְּרוֹשׁ כִּי-נָפַל אֶרֶז, אֲשֶׁר אַדִּרִים שֻׁדָּדוּ;

[Tishri1]

ypu may want to ask this in the main forum...want me to move it there for you?

[ContraMundum]

Well, I have already given my answer. :)

[yochanan5730]

Shalom. May I ask someone knowedgeble in the Hebrew if this Hebrew word in Red is the same exact word form as in Zech 11:2 as we have a tread on it concerning "Lucifer"

To me, it looks like both words would translate to "howl". Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Originally Posted by LamorakDesGalis http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=48702410#post48702410)
Here is the same Hebrew text you quoted, only enlarged:


Isaiah 14:12

יב אֵיךְ נָפַלְתָּ מִשָּׁמַיִם, הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר; נִגְדַּעְתָּ



But you said it differed than the one used in Zech 11:2 but they show the same here. That is why I asked where you saw the difference at. Zech 11:2

בהֵילֵל בְּרוֹשׁ כִּי-נָפַל אֶרֶז, אֲשֶׁר אַדִּרִים שֻׁדָּדוּ;
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הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר
Heylel ben Shachar, often erroneously translated Lucifer (Latin) son of the morning, is more literally Brightness, Son of the Dawn or may be rendered as Bright Star, Son of the Morning. there is a difference of meaning in Hebrew between Dawn (Shachar) and Morning (Boker).

now, the Z'khar'yah 11:2 Heylel
הֵילֵל
is written the same way as Y'sha'yahu 14:12's Heylel, both with the Tzereh (ֵ), neither with a Patach (ַ) in the Masoretic, and is a variant of the word Heylil,
היליל
meaning to Lament or Howl.

many times variants will not contain all the letters of a word, usually a Vav ו or Yod י are removed, or a letter will even be added as in B'reshith/Genesis 2:7
...וייצר יהוה אלהים את־האדם
And formed YHVH Elohim the Adam...etc.
the Word for "And formed" is Va Yitzer וייצר which has an added Yod י, and should be written ויצר as it is in B'reshith/Genesis 2:19.


I hope this was helpful...

B'rakhoth b'Yeshua,
John