What or Who Is Satan? [Archive]

tanzel

14th September 2008, 07:48 PM

tanzel

14th September 2008, 07:54 PM

Ephesians 6:10 - Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Be strong in the Lord and in His power and His might. And how do you grasp this power that is not your own? Take a look.
Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

If we take on the Lord's armor we will be protected. When a brother or sister argues the Bible, they are locked in the heat of the battle, but not with the person that stands before them. Who are they wrestling or warring with? Let's see.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places (Ephesians 6:12)

You are not fighting against flesh and blood you are fighting against an evil spirit. To get that spirit out of your face, read the book and the book will shoot holes in all that false doctrine. What we need to do now is take a look at the pieces of the Lord's armor. Make sure to pay close attention to the parts of the armor that you need. We will see that if you don't have the entire armor we might as well not have any at all. You will also see that if we have the entire armor on we will also possess an offensive weapon. This weapon is the most powerful weapon in the creation. Let's take a look at this armor.

tanzel

14th September 2008, 07:58 PM

Ephesian 6:13-17 - Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

We must have the whole armor on, not half or one piece but all. The enemies’ weapon is bad doctrine; this bad doctrine is all around us. Our faith or belief in the Lord will protect us from all our enemies. How you might ask? By walking in righteousness, which is following the commandments, we will be at peace. Not only peace, if we endure to the end we will obtain salvation. As we have seen, we have an offensive weapon also. The sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. The word of God spoken in truth and in righteousness will defeat any enemy. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

tanzel

14th September 2008, 08:02 PM

Now that we see what one must have to be protected, let's see how some of these evil spirits operate. Pay close attention and you will see that they operate through men in this case.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. (Revelation 13:1-2)

This beast isn't Satan. This beast represents the entire Gentile dynasty. From Nebuchadnezzar to the ten nations that will make up the European Economic Community that is gaining power at this very moment. Notice where the beast gets it power? The dragon which is Satan the devil gives this system its power. Let's back up to the 12th chapter of Revelation and in this chapter you will see the beast is called the dragon (Satan).

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: (Revelation 12:1)
This women represents Israel, this can be found in Genesis the 37th chapter verses 9-10.

"And she is with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." (Revelation 12:2-4)

LogosRhema

14th September 2008, 08:07 PM

God does send the devil after people. If you read Revelations he is the dragon that looks over the ocean looking and waiting, to steal, kill, and destroy. Job also. Satan had to ask for permission. God didn't send Satan upon Job. What foolishness is this? Our God does not have Satan serve under Him, before it was like this, but Lucifer fail and even lost his name.

God's in charge of what is good and righteous.

Satan wants to replicate as an angel of light God's righteousness to mislead men AWAY from God.

I'm sorry but if someone is reaching for me then somehow sends someone out to get me... thats confusing and our God will not do that. He has one agenda, not two.

tanzel

14th September 2008, 08:07 PM

Note what's being said. "And behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads." In the 13th chapter of Revelation it stated the dragon gave the beast its power. This simply means Satan which is the dragon runs the Gentile dynasty or in other words he gave the beast his power. In Daniel chapter 9 verse 26 you will see the children of the prince destroyed Jerusalem. Satan is the prince and the Gentiles are the children.

The Gentiles destroyed Jerusalem in 70 a.d. headed up by the Roman General Titus. Take another look at part of the verses above, this is Satan hard at work. "And the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." This is what Satan is all about destruction. The child is Jesus; remember when He was born and the angel told Joseph to flee into Egypt because Herod sought the child's life? It wasn't Satan standing there himself; he tried to kill Jesus by the hand of Herod. Herod had no idea that Satan was behind this, his concern was his kingship.

This is one reason you must try the spirits. How do you try the spirits? With the word of God. (EXAMPLE- Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,) so, what was Herod about to do? Commit murder.

to be continue....

tanzel

14th September 2008, 08:11 PM

LogosRhema

14th September 2008, 09:39 PM

So... you think God is controlling Satan? Some kind of charade? I see why you are of an other faith. This really isn't worth my time..

tanzel

15th September 2008, 09:22 PM

Lets go to Deuteronomy 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

This is what you quoted, "So... you think God is controlling Satan?" "Some kind of charade?"

Lets go to Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Lets look Psalm 66 :5 Come and see the works of God: he is terrible in his doing toward the children of men.

Lets also go to James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The last scriptures, lets go to proverbs 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. (proverbs 1:7)
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding
(proverbs 3:13)

peace in Jesus name

tanzel

15th September 2008, 09:26 PM

Now let us take a look at what Satan really looks like.

"And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire enfolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward." (Ezekiel 1:4-9)

These creators have four faces, four wings, feet like a calf, hands like men under their wings and they also look like burnt brass. What does burnt brass look like? What does anything look like burnt. It looks black. Why does it say they turned not when they went? It was no need for them to turn, remember they have four faces. They can look to the north, south, east and west at the same time. That is why they went forward without turning. Let's find out what they are called.

This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubim’s. Every one had four faces apiece, and every one four wings; and the likeness of the hands of a man was under their wings. (Ezekiel 10:20-21)

tanzel

15th September 2008, 09:51 PM

In the first chapter of Ezekiel we saw the Cherubim’s carrying Jesus around on His throne. Not a space ship as the status quo thinks. These were simply cherubim angels flying the Lord around. Is Satan a cherub angel? Well, let's find out.

The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: (Ezekiel 28:1-3)

This is not an ordinary man, notice the clue. Thou are wiser than Daniel? The prince of Tyrus is a Gentile, how can he be wiser than Daniel when it comes to the word of God. Israel possesses the oracles/word of God. Remember that Satan is the god of the Gentiles that have not came under the commonwealth of Israel. This man is Satan; Satan is wiser than Daniel take a look.

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.( Ezekiel 28: 12-13)

Do you recall the king of Tyrus in the Garden of Eden? I do recall the serpent which is called the devil and also Satan. Let's see who this really is.

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. (Ezekiel 28:14-15)

Now we see this is not a man, but a cherub angel. In some cases the Lord calls angels men. But notice something; this cherub which is Satan had some authority. He actually was on the mountain of God, until he sinned. We should pay close attention to that. What happened when Satan sinned against God? Take a look.

to be continue....

LogosRhema

15th September 2008, 09:51 PM

Madcap Mo

16th September 2008, 04:29 AM

LogosRhema

16th September 2008, 07:04 AM

Just when I thought I escaped the street preachers they find me on the internet.

Lol too funny.

Thing is I don't believe in street preaching.

tanzel

16th September 2008, 08:09 PM

Your understanding is not according to the Spirit, which I can easily see and test. Like I said. Not worth my time. I can say all I want and you won't change.

Be forewarned readers. This mans not preaching according to the Spirit of the Most High God. I've done my part.

Peace.
I gave you good scriptures, you gave me nothing, but opinion, O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. (Matthew 12:34-37)

peace in Jesus name

tanzel

16th September 2008, 08:19 PM

as we continue....

We still talking about satan, brother and sisters,

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty; thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground; I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. (Ezekiel 28:16)
What happened when he got full of himself?

He was thrown out. When the Lord blesses us with knowledge, wisdom and also understanding be careful not to get full of yourself and forget whose blessings it is and were it came from. It is the Lord's, not our own.

We should ask ourselves a question. When the Lord threw Satan out where did he throw him to? Remember this in Revelation 12 verse 4? And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. Angels are also called stars. You notice it says the earth and not hell. Yes Satan hit the ground dusted himself off along with the other evil spirit and has been raising hell ever sense.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Revelation 12:7-9)

LogosRhema

16th September 2008, 08:32 PM

I gave you good scriptures, you gave me nothing, but opinion, O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. (Matthew 12:34-37)

peace in Jesus name

Galatians 6

1Brethren, if a man also may be overtaken in any trespass, ye who [are] spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering thyself -- lest thou also may be tempted;
2of one another the burdens bear ye, and so fill up the law of the Christ,

So are we to ignore accountability?

Read also:

1 John 4

Test the Spirits

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Sigh why do I continue?

And you call my words idle.

If then you are a Christian why does your faith call out "other". Very basic. Alot of your interpretation is not according to the Spirit nor is it within context or read correctly.

Am I to be silent? You cannot silence me by your verse, its null in the fact that these words are said with purpose. Nor have I condemned you. I forewarned others an called things out as they are needed.

Peace.

tanzel

16th September 2008, 08:34 PM

No matter how powerful the devil is, the Lord has someone stronger. Now you see Satan and all the other evil spirits or unclean spirits are running around on the earth. Take a look at what the other angels said after this battle.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Revelation 12:10-12)

Notice how happy the angels were when Satan was cast out. But look how they gave us a warning. "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Woe is right. We have enemies running around and we can't even see them. ...a 3rd part of an innumerable amount of angels. These are spirit beings they never sleep or get tired, and they were here before the dinosaurs.

more to come.....

alaskacajun

16th September 2008, 11:15 PM

What version of the bible are you getting these scriptures from,the only version I've ever read is the KJV.

No where have I ever read that GOD will send satan to get me or even a sinner for that matter.I do believe thay GOD will allow some bad things to happen to get your attention but never send satan.

tanzel

17th September 2008, 09:14 PM

tanzel

17th September 2008, 09:32 PM

Back to the lesson, brothers and sisters

The Lord will save His people the same way as He did before in Egypt, just on a larger scale. This time He will save them from all over the world. They came out from Egypt with Pharaoh's army on their heels. Note the similarity below.

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood (Revelation 12:13-15)

The man-child is of course Jesus. The woman represents the nation of Israel physically and spiritually. When the Lord brought Israel out before He stated, "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself "(Exodus 19:4).

In Revelation, we have the same statement. "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle." This is symbolism; we know Israel walked into the wilderness. This time when the sign comes to pass stated in Matthew the 24th chapter verse 15 through 16 you must find your own means of transportation. Whatever it may be, plane or boat it will be at no cost to you.

The same place the Lord took Israel before is where you must be at the time appointed: not before or after. And when those of us that keep the Law get there you don't have to worry about food or water it will be provided for us. This is why the verse states, "that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. This is the great tribulation, which will last 3 ½ years (time one year, times plural two years and a half of time ½ year). The flood represents an army; this is none other than EU’s army. But it will be to no avail.

This is when the statement used today will come into affect, "no weapon formed against me shall prosper." The angels will have charge over us that make it. If you don't make it into the wilderness, what ever you do, do not accept the mark of the beast.

LogosRhema

17th September 2008, 09:41 PM

I'm going to talk to you, this time because its clear to me, that you don't read
the Bible from Genesis to revelation. Its also clear to me that your understanding
is limited. Most people would want to know about a lesson such as this, and I know, those with the fruit of the spirit can hear. I don't look for people to always
agree with my lesson, but the thing is, my lessons are fact in the Bible, and everything I write you can read out of the Bible, it not my opinion. I got a lesson
about faith coming soon, so stay toon. But, that another lesson. Lets take a look
at what the prophet Isaiah, conerning teaching the doctrine.

Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon recept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: ( Isaiah 28:9,10)

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:20) This is how you know brother and
sisters, what spirit, is of God and what spirit is not. If you are a new testament
christian, then you want understand, a lot things written, because the apostles
writing were the prophets.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. (Romans 15:4)

Get some knowledge, wisdom and understanding, before you tell people not
to read my lessons, cause this lesson can save you and other people in the latter end.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Matthew 24:13)

Peace in Jesus name

Once again your words are rather meaningless. You did not answer my points nor have you made yourself clear if you are truly a follower of Christ. Your faith icon says otherwise, which is basic along the lines of who you serve.

And here we have one other person questioning your lesson, whom I don't know mind you.

Takes three to confirm one thing.

Need one more.

One more thing.
If you are of credible resource, then why would there be a need to discredit me? Once again... must I make my point?

You lost. Yet... If you are without Him and only have Knowledge, put Christ into the equation and your knowledge of the Bible will become way more clear, on a level of understanding where this will not happen. You'll be close to the Logos of God and the Rhema that comes with it. Fresh insight and mana! But of course those are besides the point! What really matters is the relationship with Christ that is established.

Such beauty in a relationship with Him... nothing I could ever truly describe.

tanzel

17th September 2008, 09:41 PM

That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon and say, "How hath the oppressor ceased!" the golden city ceased! (Isaiah 14:4)

The golden city is Rome; this is the seat of Satan (Vatican City). Satan has used the Papacy to deceive the whole world. Everything that people call holy has come out of Rome not the Bible. Notice how it says the oppressor has ceased? Who is this oppressor that weakens the nations? Take a look.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. (Isaiah 14:12-15)

Lucifer means light bringer or bringer of knowledge. The angel Gabriel has this job now. But, notice what the Lord says, "how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations." Have any of us seen Satan or Lucifer, as he is called here? No! This spirit works through men. Satan and his army are everywhere. They see everything you do and hear everything you say. If you do not serve the true and living God, you are simply a servant of Satan. There is no in-between. The Lord says if you love Him, keep his commandments.

to be continue....

tanzel

17th September 2008, 09:59 PM

Once again your words are rather meaningless. You did not answer my points nor have you made yourself clear if you are truly a follower of Christ. Your faith icon says otherwise, which is basic along the lines of who you serve.

And here we have one other person questioning your lesson, whom I don't know mind you.

Takes three to confirm one thing.

Need one more.

One more thing.
If you are of credible resource, then why would there be a need to discredit me? Once again... must I make my point?

You lost. Yet... If you are without Him and only have Knowledge, put Christ into the equation and your knowledge of the Bible will become way more clear, on a level of understanding where this will not happen. You'll be close to the Logos of God and the Rhema that comes with it. Fresh insight and mana! But of course those are besides the point! What really matters is the relationship with Christ that is established.

Such beauty in a relationship with Him... nothing I could ever truly describe.

I'm sorry, I think I am lost, don't understand where you coming from, also
I don't use icon. I'm a Bible christian.

LogosRhema

17th September 2008, 10:03 PM

I'm sorry, I think I am lost, don't understand where you coming from, also
I don't use icon. I'm a Bible christian.

Read about testing the Spirits.

You do not even claim to Christian in your faith icon. In the very basic of terms if you are trusted with little you can be trusted with much. Much in the same way, if you are faithful in small ways you are able to faithful in big ways. Your faith icon is a small thing, but its very important, especially right now.

You are still to proclaim yourself a follower of Christ, like the Bible verse I posted. Much of your interpretations are just that, yours. I could fillet your lesson, but I choose not to because I'm more concerned with your heart, which is why I began to talk about a relationship with this Christ you are trying to teach us about. Establish a true connection with Him. Your lessons will have true Knowledge behind them. That is what I was saying earlier.

BTW aren't all "Christians" Bible Christians?

tanzel

17th September 2008, 10:27 PM

I think I understand what you are saying, let me try and take care of that.

tanzel

18th September 2008, 12:31 PM

Notice what the Lord says to His apostle in the book of Luke. This backs-up what we just read in Isaiah.

After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. (Luke 10:1)

The Lord sent seventy disciples out to each city, before He went into them. If you have on the Lord's armor you will be able to do the same thing these Israelites did. If you want to get rid of an evil spirit, read the book on them. But keep your eye on them so they won't run away until you are finished. There are evil spirits all around us. They manipulate the minds of those that wear the armor in some cases. But, if you don't wear it at all, you are free game for these spirits.

Try this little test and watch how their feathers get ruffled. You, tell people that "we must keep the law." Watch what happens, you have a serious battle on your hands. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (romans 7:12)

Remember that we don't war against flesh and blood. Our war is with those evil spirits behind the scenes. Another thing, make sure you have a Bible handy to show them, talk is cheap if you can't back it up in the book.

tanzel

18th September 2008, 12:39 PM

Now, notice what the disciples say to the Lord.

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. (Luke 10:17)

Did you notice something very important? They said, "The devils are subject unto us through thy name. In Jesus name devils are subject to us, not in our own. Remember Ephesians chapter 6 and verse 10, "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might." It is the Lord's power not our own. Now what was the Lord's response to their statement?

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. (Luke 10:18-20)

tanzel

18th September 2008, 12:48 PM

Remember what the Lord said by the mouth of Isaiah, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." Jesus says the same thing here; "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." Jesus also says He gives us power over serpents and scorpions. Jesus is talking about evil spirits not actual snakes and scorpions. Pick one up and watch what happens, you will get bit.

The Lord broke the covenant with the animals after Noah came off the ark. He will not reinstate it until He is back on earth. What must you have on to have power over these spirits? Put on the whole armor of God that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. And if you continue to wear this armor your name will be written in heaven.

Let's recap what we have learned before we continue. We've learned at the beginning of this lesson how to defend ourselves against evil spirits. We also found out how Satan and his minions operate through men and how they were kicked out of heaven and landed right here on earth. We have found out what Satan looks like and what type of angel he is. He is also used symbolically in the book of Revelation as the entire Gentile dynasty.

more to come....

7angel

19th September 2008, 12:10 PM

.

SPIRITUAL AWARENESS OR BEWARE OF THE SPIRITS!

Think about this for a moment. Does Satan have allies among men? No! He is the destroyer. His mission is to destroy us if we are good or bad. Not one man or woman upon this earth can go into battle against him without the armor of God. There is no way you can fight with this spirit alone or any spirit for that matter. First of all, Satan and his minions are invisible. The Bible calls this "chains of darkness." If these evil spirits could appear before man whenever they got ready, man would not have a chance to obtain eternal life. They can only appear when they have permission. These beings have greater wisdom than man, greater strength than an ox, swifter than an eagle, and more fierce than a lion. How can you fight and enemy like that? We can not, not alone.

Let's begin this lesson by showing the only way you can be protected from this powerful enemy. The only way is to run behind his boss, and who is his boss? The Everlasting GOD. Hope and pray that the Lord doesn't send him after you. If He does you don't have a chance. Satan will only attack when the Lord God gives the order. Those of us that call ourselves servants of God, do what the book says, stay away from the willful sins. Then the Lord will have no reason to put these evil spirits on you. Let's get started and see whose power we need to defend ourselves against Satan and his minions.

Satan is the spirit of evil, and his angels are: selfishness, vanity, greed, arrogance, violence, lust, etc..

these things are inherent in human beings and grow with our intelligence.

said the parable of the weeds, and, Jesus told his disciples, "Beware yourself", and. Paul said, "science encourages vanity"

Also, Jesus told Peter the man - out of here Satan, your thoughts are not of God.

Satan lives in our consciousness, which is why Jesus said, "the polluter is not what enters the mouth, but what comes from the mouth". And the mouth speaks what has the heart.

tanzel

19th September 2008, 07:46 PM

Thats a good point.

tanzel

19th September 2008, 08:09 PM

Now, let's see the fix the Lord put on Satan and his angels so man could not see them.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (II Peter 2:4)

Most people will read this and say, "See I told you the evil angels were in hell." Look at the last part of the verse. It states, "To be reserved unto judgment," so, if they are waiting for the judgment how can they be in hell? In this case hell represents the earth. We have already read in several places that Satan and his angels were cast out into the earth.

Now, notice what Peter says, "delivered them into chains of darkness," this simply means they are invisible. If a being popped in front of you shining like the sun and able to tell you what's on your mind, what would you do? You would fall on your face and say, "God just spoke to me." Luckily they can only appear with permission, if they could appear when they got ready we would not have a chance at salvation. Let's go to 1st Peter and take a look at a verse where it is said, "When Jesus died, he went and preached to the dead people." Well, let see if that's true.

tanzel

19th September 2008, 08:14 PM

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (I Peter 3:18)

The spirit that quickened Him or made alive was the Father. Now pay close attention to the next verse!
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (I Peter 3:19)

What prison? We just read what prison the Lord went to preach to the spirits in. Let's read it again.
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (II Peter 2:4)

This is not the type or prison we perceive with bars and gates. This prison is the realm of invisibility or in other words chains of darkness. Now, take a look at the time when the Lord did this preaching to the spirits in prison.

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (I Peter 3:19-20)

This took place in the days of Noah when He and the Father were equal.

to be continue....

tanzel

20th September 2008, 10:28 PM

Let's see if angels are spirits to clarify this, and also see what their jobs are.

And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, and let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Hebrews 1:6-7)

So, you see that the angels are spirits. Now, what is there purpose?
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? (Hebrews 1:13-14)

All the angels are ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation. The Holy angels will see that you receive the Lord's word and will protect you in time of trouble. The evil angels are here to try you, and take the word that you have learned or in other words destroy you. If you don't have the word of God you have nothing. Everything in this world will perish, but the next world is for an eternity.

tanzel

20th September 2008, 10:32 PM

Let's go to the Psalm and pay close attention to what David is saying, and see how you can defeat your enemy.

A Psalm of David. Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me. (Psalms 35:1)
Let the Lord do your fighting. We are no match for what takes place behind the scenes. The spirits are all around us, and if we do not have the protection the Lord gives, we are free game. Note what David says next.

Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt. Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them. (Psalms 35:4-6)
Let the angel of the Lord chase them.

This is the protection the Lord gives us. A holy angel that is just as powerful as the evil spirit that is trying to do you hurt through evil men. Remember that the angles are ministering spirits sent forth to aid those who are heirs of salvation.
Let the angel of the Lord chase them. This is the protection the Lord gives us. A holy angel that is just as powerful as the evil spirit that is trying to do you hurt through evil men. Remember that the angles are ministering spirits sent forth to aid those who are heirs of salvation.

to be continue....

tanzel

21st September 2008, 04:57 PM

Now, let's go to the book of Judges, see a reward of a wicked man.

And Abimelech the son of Jerubbaal went to Shechem unto his mother's brethren, and communed with them, and with all the family of the house of his mother's father, saying, Speak, I pray you, in the ears of all the men of Shechem, Whether is better for you, either that all the sons of Jerubbaal, which are threescore and ten persons, reign over you, or that one reign over you? Remember also that I am your bone and your flesh. And his mother's brethren spake of him in the ears of all the men of Shechem all these words: and their hearts inclined to follow Abimelech; for they said, He is our brother. And they gave him threescore and ten pieces of silver out of the house of Baalberith, wherewith Abimelech hired vain and light persons, which followed him.

And he went unto his father's house at Ophrah, and slew his brethren the sons of Jerubbaal, being threescore and ten persons, upon one stone: notwithstanding yet Jotham the youngest son of Jerubbaal was left; for he hid himself. And all the men of Shechem gathered together, and all the house of Millo, and went, and made Abimelech king, by the plain of the pillar that was in Shechem. And when they told it to Jotham, he went and stood in the top of mount Gerizim, and lifted up his voice, and cried, and said unto them, Hearken unto me, ye men of Shechem, that God may hearken unto you. (Judges 9:1-7)

Notice one thing above, "he went unto his father's house at Ophrah, and slew his brethren the sons of Jerubbaal, being threescore and ten persons, upon one stone." He killed seventy of his brother’s one at a time upon the same stone.

tanzel

21st September 2008, 05:01 PM

Now take a look at what his brother told him.

(For my father fought for you, and adventured his life far, and delivered you out of the hand of Midian: And ye are risen up against my father's house this day, and have slain his sons, threescore and ten persons, upon one stone, and have made Abimelech, the son of his maidservant, king over the men of Shechem, because he is your brother;) If ye then have dealt truly and sincerely with Jerubbaal and with his house this day, then rejoice ye in Abimelech, and let him also rejoice in you:

But if not, let fire come out from Abimelech, and devour the men of Shechem, and the house of Millo; and let fire come out from the men of Shechem, and from the house of Millo, and devour Abimelech.

And Jotham ran away, and fled, and went to Beer, and dwelt there, for fear of Abimelech his brother. When Abimelech had reigned three years over Israel, Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech: That the cruelty done to the threescore and ten sons of Jerubbaal might come, and their blood be laid upon Abimelech their brother, which slew them; and upon the men of Shechem, which aided him in the killing of his brethren. (Judges 9:17-24)

For committing this terrible act what did the Lord do? God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech. The Lord sent the evil spirit; this spirit did not just show up on his own. The evil spirit was given an order and he followed it.

tanzel

21st September 2008, 05:05 PM

Now, let's see the reward of an evil man.

And Abimelech came unto the tower, and fought against it, and went hard unto the door of the tower to burn it with fire. And a certain woman cast a piece of a millstone upon Abimelech's head, and all to break his skull. Then he called hastily unto the young man his armour bearer, and said unto him, Draw thy sword, and slay me, that men say not of me, a woman slew him. And his young man thrust him through, and he died. And when the men of Israel saw that Abimelech was dead, they departed every man unto his place.

Thus God rendered the wickedness of Abimelech, which he did unto his father, in slaying his seventy brethren: And all the evil of the men of Shechem did God render upon their heads: and upon them came the curse of Jotham the son of Jerubbaal. (Judges 9:52-57)

Notice what's being said, "Thus God rendered the wickedness of Abimelech, which he did unto his father, in slaying his seventy brethren. Did the Lord kill Abimelech? Or, did the evil spirit kill Abimelech? The scripture states, "A woman broke his skull with a mill stone and his armour bearer thrust him through. Did you see the evil angel do the killing? No! This is what Peter meant by chains of darkness. This evil spirit that was sent by the Lord carried out the order that destroyed Abemelech for killing his brethren by the hand of men. Nowhere do you see were the angel killed Abimelech. In this case you see the evil spirit use the men to carry out the Lord's order.

to be continue....

tanzel

22nd September 2008, 12:25 PM

Now, let's see another case where Jesus gives the order and the evil angels do exactly what they are told to do. But, this time it will not be by the hand of men. Let's go to the 78th Psalm and take a look how this evil spirits use the forces of nature.

They remembered not his hand, nor the day when he delivered them from the enemy. How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan: And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink. He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them. He gave also their increase unto the caterpillar, and their labour unto the locust. He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycamore trees with frost. He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts. He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. (Psalms 78:42-49)

Those verses should have you shaking in your boots. This is one of the reasons we should fear the Lord. He gives the orders to these angels and they carry them out to the letter. These evil spirits are even capable of using the forces of nature.

Sisters and brothers, we should not worry about why the Lord does certain things. We should worry about how we must stay on His good side. Remember we are His creation. He can do whatever He wants whenever He wants. Even though Jesus is extremely dangerous He is a loving God.

He gives us an operations manual, which is the Bible. It is printed in every language under the sun. There is no excuse for any of us to be ignorant of His word. It gives us instruction how to be members of the God family. Many people do not realize the Godhead is recreating itself. All we need to do is follow the plan He has outlined for us and we will stay in His grace.

Nothing is easy sisters and brothers, but we must continue on a day to day basis to walk with the Lord. Sure you we will stumble and fall sometimes, because this flesh is tough. When you do fall get back up and continue the race.

tanzel

22nd September 2008, 12:31 PM

Now, let's continue. Pay close attention to the next verse, John is giving us a warning.

If any man should see his brother sin; a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. (I John 5:16)

If you see a brother or sister transgressing the Lord's Law you should correct them and even pray for them asking forgiveness. But, if he or she continues to break the law after they have been informed of the truth and feel comfortable in committing sin, they will sin unto death even the lake of fire. He or she has been given the truth and continue to disobey.

to be continue....

Wade Smith

22nd September 2008, 03:59 PM

.

SPIRITUAL AWARENESS OR BEWARE OF THE SPIRITS!

Think about this for a moment. Does Satan have allies among men? No! He is the destroyer. His mission is to destroy us if we are good or bad. Not one man or woman upon this earth can go into battle against him without the armor of God. There is no way you can fight with this spirit alone or any spirit for that matter. First of all, Satan and his minions are invisible. The Bible calls this "chains of darkness." If these evil spirits could appear before man whenever they got ready, man would not have a chance to obtain eternal life. They can only appear when they have permission. These beings have greater wisdom than man, greater strength than an ox, swifter than an eagle, and more fierce than a lion. How can you fight and enemy like that? We can not, not alone.

Let's begin this lesson by showing the only way you can be protected from this powerful enemy. The only way is to run behind his boss, and who is his boss? The Everlasting GOD. Hope and pray that the Lord doesn't send him after you. If He does you don't have a chance. Satan will only attack when the Lord God gives the order. Those of us that call ourselves servants of God, do what the book says, stay away from the willful sins. Then the Lord will have no reason to put these evil spirits on you. Let's get started and see whose power we need to defend ourselves against Satan and his minions.

First of all, God does not "order" satan to attack anyone.

God allows it to happen, but never "orders" this. If God did "order" an evil Spirit to attack a human being, then that would place the blame of temptation on God, but James says that "God does not tempt man with evil."

Second, God is not "satan's boss".

As a matter of fact, satan rebelled against God, and is completely the enemy of God. He has no chance to win his pathetic little rebellion, and will ultimately go to the Lake of Fire, but he is not the servant of the Lord in any real fashion. He is the enemy of the Lord.

Satan is a defeated foe. Colossians lays this out plain as day. The death of Jesus on the Cross blotted out the law, and spoiled powers and principalities. Jesus has made a spectacle of the devil, and "triumphed" over them. To "Triumph" over an enemy in the Greco-Roman times basicly meant to parade a defeated enemy general around for everyone to see that you have indeed defeated him.

LogosRhema

22nd September 2008, 04:46 PM

As I told you tanzel. Your understanding is not according to the Spirit. I'm not the only one pointing this out.

tanzel

22nd September 2008, 10:12 PM

First of all, God does not "order" satan to attack anyone.

God allows it to happen, but never "orders" this. If God did "order" an evil Spirit to attack a human being, then that would place the blame of temptation on God, but James says that "God does not tempt man with evil."

Second, God is not "satan's boss".

As a matter of fact, satan rebelled against God, and is completely the enemy of God. He has no chance to win his pathetic little rebellion, and will ultimately go to the Lake of Fire, but he is not the servant of the Lord in any real fashion. He is the enemy of the Lord.

Satan is a defeated foe. Colossians lays this out plain as day. The death of Jesus on the Cross blotted out the law, and spoiled powers and principalities. Jesus has made a spectacle of the devil, and "triumphed" over them. To "Triumph" over an enemy in the Greco-Roman times basicly meant to parade a defeated enemy general around for everyone to see that you have indeed defeated him.

I can see you didn't read the lesson, you just pick a little piece out the whole topic, so lets see who the boss.

Lets go to Revelation 20: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

So now we see satan getting lock up, do you really think satan want to
get lock up. So who's the boss, Jesus of course.

Lets go a little futher.... And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, (Revelation 20:7) So who the boss?
God of course. Who created who, God created angles and man and everything in the earth.

But to which of the angels said he at any times, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
(Hebrews 1:13,14)

So lets finish up on whoes the boss , lets go our last place.... And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10) Whoes the boss?

So in the future read, first.

peace in Jesus name

tanzel

22nd September 2008, 10:15 PM

As I told you tanzel. Your understanding is not according to the Spirit. I'm not the only one pointing this out.

I'm glad, just more to teach, you shouldn't be so quick to agree with people, with know understanding, it puts you in a bad spot.

peace in Jesus name

LogosRhema

22nd September 2008, 10:18 PM

I wasn't agreeing. I already said what he said. You must not be from the US judging by your writing and comprehension, not that its a bad thing, but I can tell.

tanzel

22nd September 2008, 10:33 PM

Ok, I understand you.

peace in Jesus name

LogosRhema

22nd September 2008, 10:40 PM

tanzel

23rd September 2008, 12:59 AM

Oh and btw. You are using the context of "boss" in two different ways. And taking scripture out of context as well. But whats it matter. 3 people now have told you, you were wrong. It takes three to confirm.

False Doctrine.

Pownt.

:)
I disagree and you should explain and point out somethings, I notice that about you, you don't make your point clear. Those verses I use clearly made my point, jesus is the boss.

tanzel

23rd September 2008, 01:06 PM

Now, let's see an example of a sin unto death. We will take a look at King Saul, the first king of Israel.

God gave him several orders through the prophet Samuel. Saul continued doing what he felt was right instead of doing what the Lord said to do. This sin brought about a physical death. Notice what the Lord says to Samuel. And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? Fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. (I Samuel 16:1)

him several orders through the prophet Samuel. Saul continued doing what he felt was right instead of doing what the Lord said to do. This sin brought about a physical death. Notice what the Lord says to Samuel.
And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? Fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. (I Samuel 16:1)

Note what the Lord says, "How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel." Saul has simply crossed the line and the Lord has cast him away from Him. But, Samuel loved Saul and tried to get Saul back into the graces of God. This is what Peter is talking about when he says, "There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it." Samuel should have no longer prayed for Saul, he knew Saul wasn't following the commandments of God. This happens today also. We all have someone we care for dearly. We do the same thing Samuel did. We mourn for them, but if they continue after they have been told several times, we should be very careful because the Lord might turn on us. Remember that we plant the seed and the Lord gives the increase. Take a look what happens if you cross that line.

Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. But the spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. And Saul said unto his servants, provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me. (Samuel I 16:13-17)

tanzel

23rd September 2008, 01:10 PM

Note what took place after Saul continued to transgress the Lord's commandments, "the spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him." The Lord put an evil spirit on Saul and this spirit rode Saul until he was killed in battle. Let's hope sisters and brothers that this never happens to us. So here is a little advice from the Lord's chief apostle, Peter. Take heed to these verses.

Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (I Peter 5:6-7)

So, when trouble strikes cast your care upon the Lord. He is the only one that can protect you, and you have seen He is the only one that can hurt you. You have no choice but to obey.

Remember that the Lord has the lake of fire for those who transgress His law. What must we be while we walk in this flesh?

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. (Peter I 5:8)

tanzel

23rd September 2008, 01:53 PM

Brothers and Sisters, this thread is very basic, all I did is post scriptures and verses
threw out the Bible, so you can see the characterist of satan and how God
deals with evil angles. Brother and Sisters all angles are ministering spirtis, weather
that be good or bad. Unholy angles or evil spirits can sometimes be call devils. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(James 2:19)

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (James 4:7,8)

Its either you on God side or the side of evil or the devils. Satan just the chief of them all. This thread points out who is who, I can tell people by their fruits, and who keeps the commandments, who hears, who don't, I consider myself a seed planter, this word of God is about salvation and at the end of the rode, it tides in the good side of the kingdom or the lake of fire.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:13,14)

Some people think they save now, the end is not yet.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:14,15)

peace in Jesus name

Benoni

23rd September 2008, 05:18 PM

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?
It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

Even the Jews knew the true name of Satan. They called him Beelzebub. Satan was created a tool

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan nothing mentioned about being an angel in his beginning)

Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men.

tanzel

23rd September 2008, 07:35 PM

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?
It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

Even the Jews knew the true name of Satan. They called him Beelzebub. Satan was created a tool

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan nothing mentioned about being an angel in his beginning)

Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men.

Lets start with Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Lets take this scripture and put it with these verses....And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

So now we clearly see Lucifer, which is known by satan, who got kick out
of heaven.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Like I said brother and sisters, you can tell people by their fruits, now who
got the false doctrine.

peace in Jesus name

Benoni

23rd September 2008, 08:19 PM

Lets start with Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Lets take this scripture and put it with these verses....And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

So now we clearly see Lucifer, which is known by satan, who got kick out
of heaven.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Like I said brother and sisters, you can tell people by their fruits, now who
got the false doctrine.

peace in Jesus name

Adam fell from heaven, does that make him Satan? How is Lucifer known as Satan; except thought some dead religous doctrine. Chapter and verse please; show me Lucifer is Satan? [/font]

So Satan fell from heaven; what is heaven? [/font]

Satan was in Eden; nothing mentioned of Lucifer here.

Satan was always a liar, always a murderer; from his beginning (beginning means beginning of source); show how could he also be an angel at the same time be a murderer, a liar. God created the waster (Satan to distroy) what is it what you have not showed me; or God's Word.

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Are you like the Jews where your traditions are more important then God's Word?

In with, by Christ, George

By the way have you ever seen lighting fall?

tanzel

23rd September 2008, 09:05 PM

I can't go that low with you, steve wonder can see that, and, you think adam fell
from heaven. Call me whatever you want, but I can't go there with you. Sorry

peace in Jesus name

Benoni

23rd September 2008, 10:45 PM

I can't go that low with you, steve wonder can see that, and, you think adam fell
from heaven. Call me whatever you want, but I can't go there with you. Sorry

peace in Jesus name

So what you are really saying is you cannot prove that Satan was an angel.

Adam did fall.... So you are do not belive that when Adam walk and talk with God in cool (spirit of the day) and then later when Adam sinned he no longer was clothed with God's glory and found out he was naked. That was not falling from God's grace?

Kasih

24th September 2008, 02:38 AM

So what you are really saying is you cannot prove that Satan was an angel.

Adam did fall.... So you are do not belive that when Adam walk and talk with God in cool (spirit of the day) and then later when Adam sinned he no longer was clothed with God's glory and found out he was naked. That was not falling from God's grace?

Been lurking this forum for few weeks.
Decided to join today. Good stuff.

Back on topic:
I believe satan was an angel who was banned from heaven from being wanting be equal like God.

Ezekiel 14:14 - Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Isaiah 14
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Also many have come to view the word "fallen" as denoting a fall from grace, though it seems some think was simply to descend from the heavens.

Benoni

24th September 2008, 11:25 AM

Been lurking this forum for few weeks.
Decided to join today. Good stuff.

Back on topic:
I believe satan was an angel who was banned from heaven from being wanting be equal like God.

Ezekiel 14:14 - Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Isaiah 14
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Also many have come to view the word "fallen" as denoting a fall from grace, though it seems some think was simply to descend from the heavens.

I know the traditional teaching from Rome, let us look outside the traditions of the past and look at the facts from God's Word.

You cannot have it both ways I have already pointed out Isaiah 14; no where does it say Lucifer is the Devil or Satan. God created the Waster to destroy; if this is scripture then how can the devil be an angel (messenger); the word “messenger” should replace angel; even though the word angel is not a translation but a transliteration; in other words the translator with a bias. This teaching like many comes from Rome like many and should be looked at with opened spiritual eyes.

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

There is no such word for angel in the Greek of Hebrew The word angel simply means messenger; many time there are heavenly messengers as well as in some cases earthy messenger, you must weigh each verse closely. Satan is a spirit; but my point is his powers are limited; not like God who is all powerful. Satan has no power unless God ordained it. We give him way too much power the idea that some how he can pull the wool over God’s eyes is just plain carnal and religous.

Adam fell from grace; the Devil was a liar and a murderer from the beginning; that is how God created him. Are you saying Satan has two beginnings; if so chapter and verse please.

kellyc

24th September 2008, 12:02 PM

lucifer is a man? so lucifer is NOT satan?

kellyc

24th September 2008, 12:02 PM

oops, double post. when did adam fall from heaven? lucifer means falling star i thought. so why do you think satan and lucifer are two different things?

Benoni

24th September 2008, 12:13 PM

oops, double post. when did adam fall from heaven? lucifer means falling star i thought. so why do you think satan and lucifer are two different things?

What is heaven?

There is no substance in the Bible to show they are one of the same; in fact what I have quoted using scripture declares that Satan's beginning's were a murderer, a liar; not an angel. Answer my question; are you saying Satan has two beginnings?

Benoni

24th September 2008, 12:21 PM

One more thing; if Lucifer is Satan as tradition proclaims; then that means Satan deceived God? That is IMPOSSIBLE.

kellyc

24th September 2008, 12:27 PM

do you believe in heaven? or an afterlife?

kellyc

24th September 2008, 12:27 PM

do you believe in heaven? or an afterlife?

SoundCard

24th September 2008, 01:24 PM

Luke 10:18-20 NIV

18He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

Come on, it is not that difficult to know what Christ is talking about when He says Heaven. The Kingdom of God where He dwells, that is where the devil fell from and was cast down from. Adam's fall was from grace, not from Heaven. He became spiritually dead when he sinned against God, but he was here when that happened, not in Heaven. We're also told that the devil is clearly an angel.

2 Corinthians 11:14 NIV

14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Wade Smith

24th September 2008, 02:59 PM

What is heaven?

There is no substance in the Bible to show they are one of the same; in fact what I have quoted using scripture declares that Satan's beginning's were a murderer, a liar; not an angel. Answer my question; are you saying Satan has two beginnings?

17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

So the "dragon" in Revelation is Satan, "The" Devil, the leader of the fallen angels.

Ok now watch this.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

So we see that Satan, "The Devil" and "Dragon" all refer specificly to a single evil spirit being. Then this being, and his imps and false preachers are also described as "Angels of light". That is, they come to you appearing to be serving God.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

What is the literal translation of the name "lucifer"?

It really comes to "brightness" or "Light bringer,"

So, the very name "lucifer" is totally agreeing with the "angel of light" descripton given by Paul regarding the devil.

Also, fallen angels are clearly seen in the Bible.

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

In the greek, the same word "stars" is translated as either "angel(s)" or "stars" depending on the translators preference.

For example, the wise men from the east saw a "star" in bethlehem. Now we know that "stars" do not "stand over a place," but move according to the time of night. So then within reason, we know that this "star" was actually an angel.

Similarly, the "stars" cast down by the dragon are "angels" who rebelled against God.

The "Devil" who is Satan, is literally the evil brother of Michael and Gabriel. The angels were all created at the same time, and the Bible says that God saw everything that he had made, and "behold it was very good".

Then AFTER they were all made "very good," Satan and 1/3 of the other angels chose to rebel against God by free will.

Even though the name "lucifer" only appears one time in the Bible, we know this is the same being "satan".

Isaiah 14:15
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

At the end of the present age, The devil is cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years, and ultimately he is cast into the lake of fire.

tanzel

24th September 2008, 06:22 PM

tanzel

24th September 2008, 07:12 PM

One more thing; if Lucifer is Satan as tradition proclaims; then that means Satan deceived God? That is IMPOSSIBLE.
Thats what I'm saying, Lucifer is Satan.
Lucifer is or use, to be the Light bringer.
Satan is the name use because of inquity, but when he was a son of
God, he was call Lucifer....

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. (Job 1:6,7)

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (Isaiah 14:12)

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
(Luke 10:18)

Now, we see that satan came around the sons of God, but satan is not
consider a son of God any more, we see satan real name, of course. when he was son of the morning or the morning stars.....lets take a look at that

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (JOb 38:7)

Now, lets look at the similarly, the morning stars, who satan use to be a part of, and all the sons of God. Verses, Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. and, How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning and, And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

So we see have the scriptures all tie in together.

peace in Jesus name

tanzel

24th September 2008, 08:31 PM

Be alert, and the only way to be alert is keep the Lord's commandments in your face at all times. Each decision you make, weigh it with the Lord's Law. If we start feeling stupid and want to do something contrary to the Lord's Law, resist steadfastly in the faith, because the same afflictions are accomplished in our brethren that are in the world. If you do this, the Lord will not have to put His watchdog on you for breaking His law. But, when we turn to the Lord in truth and in righteousness we will be tried. It is better for us that the Lord beat us up now, instead of later. If He collects from us later, we may be in the lake of fire. When things begin to go wrong, hang on, and take a look back and remember some of the crazy things that we have done in the past, and you will say to yourselves, "I deserve chastisement for my past sins."

Remember, stay in the Lord's law, and the trouble will past. If we endure after the Lord has roughed us up a little bit, He will consider us as sons and daughters. Take a look at this verse and we will move to the prophet Job and get a prime example of a person being chastened by the Lord through Satan.

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (Hebrews 12:6-8)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

tanzel

24th September 2008, 08:37 PM

With that being said, let us take a look at the prophet Job. The Lord called him a perfect and an upright man. Why did the Lord allow Satan to destroy his house? Remember the verses in Hebrews sisters and brothers. Let's take a look at who chastened Job, was it the Lord or was it Satan?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and eschewed evil?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face." And the LORD said unto Satan, "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. (Job 1:6-12)

Who is doing the chastisement? It is not the Lord Himself, He has Satan to destroy Job's house. Note what's being said, "But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Did the Lord put forth His hand? No! Satan was used by the Lord to
chastise Job. Notice what the Lord says, "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand." You see, the Lord gives the order and the angels carry it out. There is something else within these verses. What is the hedge that Satan spoke of? Let's go to the 34th Psalm and find out.

The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them. (Psalms 34:7)

The Lord did say Job feared Him, correct? What is fear? The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. (Proverbs 1:7) If you have any knowledge of the Lord the word FEAR means FEAR! You have already seen in this study that the Lord is worthy to be feared. He simply runs everything. If you fear Him you are as wise as Job.

Read the book of Job, this brother was a son to the fullest extent.

to bo continue....

Benoni

24th September 2008, 10:35 PM

Benoni

24th September 2008, 10:40 PM

Where is heaven?

I already explained the word angel is not a Greek or Hebrew word, it simply means messenger. We are talking about Satan's origin; if God created him as a liar and a murderer from his beginning then how can he be an archangel in his beginning; how many beginnings does Satan have. One.

Benoni

24th September 2008, 11:11 PM

Thats what I'm saying, Lucifer is Satan.
Lucifer is or use, to be the Light bringer.
Satan is the name use because of inquity, but when he was a son of
God, he was call Lucifer....

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. (Job 1:6,7)

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (Isaiah 14:12)

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
(Luke 10:18)

Now, we see that satan came around the sons of God, but satan is not
consider a son of God any more, we see satan real name, of course. when he was son of the morning or the morning stars.....lets take a look at that

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (JOb 38:7)

Now, lets look at the similarly, the morning stars, who satan use to be a part of, and all the sons of God. Verses, Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. and, How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning and, And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

So we see have the scriptures all tie in together.

peace in Jesus name

I disagree they do not all tie together, you seem to be totally ignoring what the Bible is saying about Satan's beginning and linking Lucifer to Satan where there is no link. Christ is the light bringer, Satan was always a murderer and liar; you cannot not have to different beginning; that is how God created Satan as a liar and murderer, Satan and Lucifer are not the same. Satan was never a son of God, Adam was a son of God, Jesus was a son of God, we are son's of God. God created Satan as the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Murderer, liar, waster all true.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?

It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Orthodoxy had long taught that Satan was, in the beginning, a high and beautiful archangel in heaven. The theologians and preachers recite over and over how Satan was originally "the anointed cherub that covers ... the most beautiful and wise of all God's creation!" I have never seen where some one has declared as they did in this FORUM that Satan sinned from the beginning when he was a so called angel. This being was, so they say, the ruler and leader of the angelic beings and apparently led them in their praise of God and shouts of joy ...the greatest being God ever created, one who had unequaled strength, wisdom, beauty, privilege, and authority, and was next to God Himself. This blameless, perfect one, named Lucifer, was created without any form of evil and with the greatest intelligence of any created being. Then, we are told, this Lucifer, suddenly realizing how beautiful and intelligent he was, became inflated with power and pride and his heart was lifted up in rebellion against God. According to the story, Lucifer gathered one-third of the heavenly angels to his cause, mustering an army with which he planned to knock God off His throne and supplant himself as king and god of the universe and there was war in heaven! Luckily, God won, cast Lucifer out of heaven and he became, instead of an holy angel, the Devil that he is today.

Religion says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he, speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44). In these studies on the Garden of Eden we are searching out the BEGINNING, probing into the very midsts of the past, the times before this age and past ages, that we might understand the grand and glorious purposes of our omnipotent and omniscient heavenly Father which He has purposed from the beginning of the world. How authoritatively the Lord Jesus reveals that way back there, in THE BEGINNING, in even HIS beginning, Satan WAS A MURDERER!

The verse we have just quoted states that Satan "Adobe not" in the truth. In the Greek text this verb is the imperfect tense of (ed: Greek form of steko(?)), I keep my standing, or simply, I stand, and the form is (esteken(?)) meaning that even before the fall or as far back as this person existed HE WAS NOT TRUE. Dr. Robert Young, in his Literal translation of the Bible, renders this verse: "He was a manslayer from the beginning, and in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD, because there is no truth in him. The Rotherham version reads: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and IN THE TRUTH HE STOOD NOT; because the truth was not in him." J. B. Phillips gives the plainest and most accurate translation: "He ALWAYS WAS a MURDERER, and has NEVER DEALT WITH THE TRUTH, since the truth will have nothing to do with him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

MAN says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless. But the apostle John, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penned these words in regard to Satan's origin: "He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING" (I Jn. 3:8). This could not be rightly said of Adam. According to Genesis 2 and 3, it was not until after Adam was created in spirit essence, after he was lowered into the realm of flesh, after he was placed in the Garden, after he named all the animals, after the woman was taken from his side, after she listened to the serpent and ate the forbidden fruit - it was AFTER ALL THESE THINGS that Adam sinned. Adam was not a sinner from the beginning. But the Devil, according to I Jn. 3:8 W-A-S A SINNER F-R-O-M T-H-E B-E-G-I-N-N-I-N-G! Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.
God is not so shallow and naïve as to have such a creature pull the wool over His eyes. Adam and Eves fall was as much a part of His plan as the death of Jesus on the cross; Satan is but a tool in God’s hands.

Kasih

25th September 2008, 04:28 AM

I disagree they do not all tie together, you seem to be totally ignoring what the Bible is saying about Satan's beginning and linking Lucifer to Satan where there is no link. Christ is the light bringer, Satan was always a murderer and liar; you cannot not have to different beginning; that is how God created Satan as a liar and murderer, Satan and Lucifer are not the same. Satan was never a son of God, Adam was a son of God, Jesus was a son of God, we are son's of God. God created Satan as the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Remember, sons of God means ANGELS in some areas,
by this I will prove Satan is an angel (darkness)

Job 1:
6. - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7. - And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Revelation 22:16 - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Who's the Morning Star? Jesus

So, Who are the sons of morning in this context? His Angels.

Also, Jesus is not just a son of God.. He is the begotten son! Only one.

Benoni

25th September 2008, 08:39 AM

Remember, sons of God means ANGELS in some areas,
by this I will prove Satan is an angel (darkness)

Job 1:
6. - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7. - And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Revelation 22:16 - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Who's the Morning Star? Jesus

So, Who are the sons of morning in this context? His Angels.

Also, Jesus is not just a son of God.. He is the begotten son! Only one.

Angel/messenger:

How many times have I repeated the fact the word angel simply means messenger, anyone can be a messenger; the following is from Strong’s Concordance.

NT:9999 inserted word (x);

This word angel was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Sons of God

Job1:6 as well as many other places in scripture is translated "son of Elohim".

Strong’s OT:430 'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:

There are many names and descriptive titles of God in the scriptures. He is called Counselor, King, Shepherd, Rock, Shield, High Tower, Strong Arm, Saviour, Redeemer, Father, Yahweh, Elohim, El Shaddai, El Elyon, Jesus (Yahshua), and many, many others. Someone has said that there are about two hundred names for God in the Bible! The moment one begins to splinter the absolute wholeness that God is, to examine all His multi-faceted aspects and attributes, the number of splinters are as infinite as God is infinite. Each name of God, as He progressively revealed Himself, was a fresh and fuller revelation of the nature of God. One was a revelation of His Self-existence, another of His might, another was the unveiling of His grace. One revealed something more of His wisdom, another of His holiness, another of His tenderness, another of His exaltation and honor, another of His judgment, and so on.

Son’s of God mentioned eleven times in the Bible without hardly digging past all the bad interpretations. You would have to do a pretty deep and lengthy study on the word Elohim; which I admit would be deep and fascinating. Sons of Elohim; son’s of God; yes that is what the scripture is saying; note Job 1:6.
Look a little deeper at Ps. 82 and notice how the word Elohim was used with both a capital G and lower case; same word same meaning both Strong’s 430 and this has happen all thought out the KJV and who know what other translation.

Ps 82:6-8 6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; (Elohim) you are all sons of the Most High.' 7 But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." 8 Rise up, O God (Elohim) , judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

Job1:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=1&verse=6&version=9&context=verse)
Now there was a day when the sons of God (Sons of Elohim) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Son: Heb. OT:1121

ben (bane); from OT:1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like OT:1, OT:251, etc.]):

God:

OT:430

elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:

begotten

NT:1080
gennao (ghen-nah'-o); from a variation of NT:1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:

KJV - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Man did not begot himself.....

Man, Adam and Jesus were all begotten by God, man did not begotten himself, but was begotten, born, brought forth or created, conceived by God; same with Adam.

tanzel

25th September 2008, 12:54 PM

Angel/messenger:

How many times have I repeated the fact the word angel simply means messenger, anyone can be a messenger; the following is from Strong’s Concordance.

NT:9999 inserted word (x);

This word angel was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Sons of God

Job1:6 as well as many other places in scripture is translated "son of Elohim".

Strong’s OT:430 'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:

There are many names and descriptive titles of God in the scriptures. He is called Counselor, King, Shepherd, Rock, Shield, High Tower, Strong Arm, Saviour, Redeemer, Father, Yahweh, Elohim, El Shaddai, El Elyon, Jesus (Yahshua), and many, many others. Someone has said that there are about two hundred names for God in the Bible! The moment one begins to splinter the absolute wholeness that God is, to examine all His multi-faceted aspects and attributes, the number of splinters are as infinite as God is infinite. Each name of God, as He progressively revealed Himself, was a fresh and fuller revelation of the nature of God. One was a revelation of His Self-existence, another of His might, another was the unveiling of His grace. One revealed something more of His wisdom, another of His holiness, another of His tenderness, another of His exaltation and honor, another of His judgment, and so on.

Son’s of God mentioned eleven times in the Bible without hardly digging past all the bad interpretations. You would have to do a pretty deep and lengthy study on the word Elohim; which I admit would be deep and fascinating. Sons of Elohim; son’s of God; yes that is what the scripture is saying; note Job 1:6.
Look a little deeper at Ps. 82 and notice how the word Elohim was used with both a capital G and lower case; same word same meaning both Strong’s 430 and this has happen all thought out the KJV and who know what other translation.

Ps 82:6-8 6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; (Elohim) you are all sons of the Most High.' 7 But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." 8 Rise up, O God (Elohim) , judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

Job1:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=1&verse=6&version=9&context=verse)
Now there was a day when the sons of God (Sons of Elohim) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Son: Heb. OT:1121

ben (bane); from OT:1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like OT:1, OT:251, etc.]):

God:

OT:430

elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:

begotten

NT:1080
gennao (ghen-nah'-o); from a variation of NT:1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:

KJV - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Man did not begot himself.....

Man, Adam and Jesus were all begotten by God, man did not begotten himself, but was begotten, born, brought forth or created, conceived by God; same with Adam.

Hey Benoni,

I know that Doctrine you follow, and I don't want any part of it. I dealt
with that doctrine before, and it not Biblically base on all the scripture and
verses, you guys read from other books to determine facts, instead of
just reading the Bible from Genesis to revelation, clean cut. Now, some concordance goes right with the Bible, it suppose to conferns whats already written, not take away, but in all honesty its not necessary at all.

I know you disagree, you can be right all day lone. I will let other
people answer you.

peace in jesus name