Mom's first liturgy....

[JustinHesychast]

So she went. =/

Mom has recently realized that both my pursuit of Orthodoxy and desire for monasticism are serious. She has been asking serious question lately, etc. But apparently she was only wanting to talk to go out of curiosity and to talk to Father about me being a monk. She asked and I told her that Fr. Stephen doesn't know of my interest in becoming a monk, but that I have briefly mentioned it to Fr. Justin and he gave me a strange look, probably because I am not even received into the Church yet (but he later said no look intended, that he was in support of young people deciding, etc.). Anyways, when I said that, service was already over, so we left. I tried to get her so stay during fellowship and meet all the nice folk and talk to Father. But she wouldn't. She says she was worried over nothing, that, Ha! I'm not even in the Church yet so she has nothing to worry about. I really didn't understand at all what she was meaning, but she didn't talk about it anymore.

All that said, I am glad she came. But she said she "didn't get anything out of it" and that she feels like she got up early and dressed up for nothing. The only thing she liked was that it was interesting to see what I was going to, but that's that. And apparently the incense made her sick at times. And she has very bad back problems, and even in the pew she was in some pain and uncomfortable. And this one guy was rude and just stood in front of her, so she saw this dude's butt a lot blocking her view some.

I'm trying to keep a positive outlook and not get so down about the outcome. At least she came. And whatever happens is God's will. That's not very comforting, though.

[Anhelyna]

Justin = she has been , she didn't walk out , and she hasn't screamed in horror and banned you from going.

That is all positive :)

Now be good - keep calm and do not push her . This has been a big step for her - and she took it - now be thankful for that and thank God - what happens next is up to Him

[seashale76]

Justin = she has been , she didn't walk out , and she hasn't screamed in horror and banned you from going.

That is all positive :)

Now be good - keep calm and do not push her . This has been a big step for her - and she took it - now be thankful for that and thank God - what happens next is up to Him

What she said.

[JustinHesychast]

I know, Anhelyna, I know. I didn't really expect anything drastic... not much of anything at all, really. So I planned to feel and act and do what you said. But somehow I can't seem to, and the whole affair has me saddened. I guess it just shows that I'm a sinner, impatient, and a teenager. Blah.

[Anhelyna]

Not at all

My husband has been twice to Church with me - the first time was for my Chrismation - and being totally honest he is not interested.

According to my SF, whom he has met on many occasions when we have been in France , he's a good man and I'm blessed having him .Whether or not he will ever come into the Church is not in my hands .

Just thank God she has come once - it may be the start of something - you have no idea . Leave it in God's hands - His will be done

[JustinHesychast]

Mom and I were talking tonight, and somehow we got to talking about Christ and the Trinity. Apparently, my mom doesn't believe Christ has always existed, and only became God after the Crucifixion and Resurrection!

I tried to explain the Trinity better to her, and Christ's divinity. I told her that it wasn't just Orthodox, but all Christianity essentially. I don't think she believed me... But she ended up getting frustrated and confused and turning to HGTV and sending me to my room.

Lord, have mercy!

[Anhelyna]

Justin ,

my advice would be don't try and explain things , just say , using the above as an example , that He has always existed and then drop the subject . Sometimes these things stick in and come back later when she is more willing to accept them.

It's not worth causing her problems by inferring that what she has 'known' for years and accepted is wrong .

[Chocolatesa]

Justin = she has been , she didn't walk out , and she hasn't screamed in horror and banned you from going.

That is all positive :)

Now be good - keep calm and do not push her . This has been a big step for her - and she took it - now be thankful for that and thank God - what happens next is up to Him

Justin ,

my advice would be don't try and explain things , just say , using the above as an example , that He has always existed and then drop the subject . Sometimes these things stick in and come back later when she is more willing to accept them.

It's not worth causing her problems by inferring that what she has 'known' for years and accepted is wrong .

What they said. I'm happy to hear that she at least attended, my boyfriend it's the opposite, he mentioned at one point last fall that he wanted to go sometime, but hasn't actually gone yet, and I don't want to bug him with that, so I let it be and pray. :crosseo:

[Lukaris]

Mom and I were talking tonight, and somehow we got to talking about Christ and the Trinity. Apparently, my mom doesn't believe Christ has always existed, and only became God after the Crucifixion and Resurrection!

I tried to explain the Trinity better to her, and Christ's divinity. I told her that it wasn't just Orthodox, but all Christianity essentially. I don't think she believed me... But she ended up getting frustrated and confused and turning to HGTV and sending me to my room.

Lord, have mercy!I believe you have said your mother is a Baptist & she does not believe (or understand) that Christ has always existed? If there was one rock solid Baptist belief, I thought that was one. I am not in any way being critical or doubting of anything you have posted. It is astonishing that a Baptist would lack such a basic understanding; several years ago, I atended a fundamentalist Baptist "Bible" church & Christ's eternal divinity was fundamental (as in John 1:1).

[MariaRegina]

Arianism (there was a time when He was not divine) is still prevalent.

Many protestants believe that Christ became divine at his Baptism, and that is why they do not honor Mary as the Mother of God. Before I became Orthodox, one of my friends encouraged me to take a course on miracles at her non-denominational church. After one class, after I had viewed that book, I dropped the course. It teaches Arianism (that Jesus became God at his Baptism). Apparently, some Protestants are not even Trinitarian. Once the mystery of the Incarnation is fully explained to them, if they are open to the truth, then they respect the Theotokos as being truly the Mother of God.

[Historynut]

All that said, I am glad she came. But she said she "didn't get anything out of it" and that she feels like she got up early and dressed up for nothing. The only thing she liked was that it was interesting to see what I was going to, but that's that. And apparently the incense made her sick at times. And she has very bad back problems, and even in the pew she was in some pain and uncomfortable. And this one guy was rude and just stood in front of her, so she saw this dude's butt a lot blocking her view some.

I'm trying to keep a positive outlook and not get so down about the outcome. At least she came. And whatever happens is God's will. That's not very comforting, though.

As far as your mom saying she did not get anything out of it I would not worry too much about it. This seems to be the normal response from Protestants after their first experience with liturgical worship. They are used to being spoon fed a long sermon with only a small part of their services being focused on prayer and praise.

I know when I converted and family or friends went to liturgy they had basically the same reaction. Most found it an interesting spectacle but failed to grasp the spiritual significance of the whole service.

Even personally it took a few months of studying the liturgy to really grasp even a small part of the spiritual depth that is to be found there.

[MariaRegina]

The liturgical protestants and Catholics have a better understanding of the Divine Liturgy, but often they carry their own baggage, per my priest.

Actually, my priest has an easier time helping evangelical protestants to convert, especially when he discusses heavenly worship.

[GenkiGirl]

Isn't it funny how Protestant Christians look to worship as "getting something out of it?" Last time I checked, worship meant giving, not getting, and isn't intended for us to come away with some elated, over-inflated, ooey-gooey feelings. I remember being there and saying that exact same thing, "It was nice, but I just didn't really get anything out of it." Wow, was my focus off!

[Bessie]

I agree with what GenkiGirl said about focus being off. Still, I like liturgy and always have. I'm fortunate that it has resonated with me from the beginning. That said, it still look me a while to actually "sink into" the ebb and flow of DL. Even as a former Catholic who enjoys liturgy I struggled with it.

Justin, if you remember, you didn't really fall in love the first time or two either. You said you were disappointed and a little bored. This is normal, give it time.

[MariaRegina]

As a former Catholic who had to tolerate the constant liturgical abuse prevalent in Los Angeles, becoming Orthodox was delightful. I began to relish and long for the constant prayerful attitude of the Orthodox: Be sober; be watchful. The Divine Liturgy has a flow - it begins with a blessing "Blessed is the Kingdom of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" and then helps prepare our souls to worship the Holy Trinity with litanies and antiphons so that we can attentively sing the Trisagion Hymn imploring God to have mercy on us.

Yes, we are in the Kingdom of God. We are taken into Heaven with all the angels and saints. Immediately following the antiphons we have the readings from the Epistle and Gospel. After another litany calling us to commend ourselves and each other to Christ, then we lay aside all earthly care as we sing the Cherubic Hymn, and following that, the recitation or singing of the Creed. From there we go into the Anaphora where we prepare for Holy Communion and give thanks and worship to the Holy Trinity. Finally we begin to conclude our Heavenly Worship with the hymn: "We have seen the true light; we have received the Heavenly Spirit; we have found the true faith in worshiping the undivided Trinity, Who has saved us."

For an excellent treatment of Orthodox Worship, and mine is so brief, please consult the four volume, The Orthodox Faith, by Father Thomas Hopko. You may also visit www.oca.org (http://www.oca.org)

In our Divine Liturgy, the following acts of prayer occur, making the Divine Liturgy perfect worship:

A - Adoration
C - Contrition
T - Thanksgiving
S - Supplication

Within the Orthodox Divine Liturgy, there is a constant movement of the soul toward God with prayers and chants alternating between the Priest/Deacon and the laity (chanters, congregation and/or choir).

There is no time for reflection or self-pity because we do not have the so-called times of silence so prevalent in other non-Orthodox churches. In fact, it was the hyper emotional songs followed by those brief cool down reflective periods which prevented my true worship of the Trinity in those churches. With the constant up and down emotional movements in other churches, I often found that my mind was elsewhere, surely not focused on God, especially when they sang politically correct songs such as "Her name is Jesus." I often felt like a puppet whose strings were being pulled and manipulated. Indeed, at non-Orthodox retreats, I often experienced a mountain top experience only to be followed by a valley low. However, within Orthodoxy, the freedom from heresy is giving rest to my soul, with no more peaks and lows, so that I can truthfully say that I have at last found the true faith and heavenly worship.

[E.C.]

Hey, she went and didn't make a scene. Be happy.:)