I was right

[rainbowbright]

my husband got sucked into research on Islam and last night, he informed me that Islam was really the 'true' religion, I threatened divorce if he converted and after a very long talk, he is now no longer considering converting. We're at least safe for now or as long as I'm around, but he says he's going to pray for me for a change of heart. :doh:

[Kristos]

That must have been quite a conversation!

[JustinHesychast]

Wow. At least you "let him have it". What an awful situation. Lord, have mercy!

[Lukaris]

You truly have your hands full with everything. Praying that your husband be freed of his delusion. Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us and save us. Through the intercessions of the Theotokos and all the saints. Lord have mercy on Your servants.:crosseo:

[Rindicella]

God bless you. I will pray for you. (Wish I coulda been a fly on THAT wall!)

Don't feel too badly; a spouse who converts to Christianity to please his/her spouse, can be just as maddening....that's what happened to me...several years ago (almost ten years ago now.) , when I was married, my then-husband, converted to Orthodoxy. Shortly afterward, he went nuts (literally) and completely destroyed whatever marriage we had left. We were never married in the Church.... I left him without a second thought, and have never looked back since. Some things are just not your fault and out of your control. (The kicker is: for a long while he tried to "out-Orthodox" me....now he's converted back to Mormonism...:doh:)

It just goes to show you that a person cannot live a spiritual life vicariously through the spouse....they have to tread that path alone.

[Matrona]

Kyrie eleison!

[Ebor]

my husband got sucked into research on Islam and last night, he informed me that Islam was really the 'true' religion, I threatened divorce if he converted and after a very long talk, he is now no longer considering converting. We're at least safe for now or as long as I'm around, but he says he's going to pray for me for a change of heart. :doh:

You do *not* need this when things are going on with diagnosing your child. :sigh: I apologize for my impertinence; could this be something that is a kind of 'distraction' from your daughter's health? Do you know why he was doing this research?

I'm sorry that you're having more stress.

Ebor

[Michael the Iconographer]

my husband got sucked into research on Islam and last night, he informed me that Islam was really the 'true' religion, I threatened divorce if he converted and after a very long talk, he is now no longer considering converting. We're at least safe for now or as long as I'm around, but he says he's going to pray for me for a change of heart. :doh:

Ask St. John of Damascus to pray for you and your husband. :crosseo:

[Anhelyna]

Lord have mercy

:crosseo:

[rainbowbright]

Thanks everyone, I think it was the most intense conversation I have ever had and while I was having it, all I could do was pray the Jesus prayer. When I asked him why he was willing to deny Christ, he said he could never figure out why God needed an intermediary so he's never thought much of Christ anyways. Then he's says I'm making him have to choose between me and God and since he's found a path to Him, I'm not letting him take it. On the other hand, he says he's not willing to give me up over God.


You do *not* need this when things are going on with diagnosing your child. :sigh: I apologize for my impertinence; could this be something that is a kind of 'distraction' from your daughter's health? Do you know why he was doing this research?

I'm sorry that you're having more stress.

Ebor

Thanks Ebor, I don't know why he's doing this. He has a history of changing religions as often as he changes his pants. He was brought up Christian, but for some reason he struggles with it. I did remind him he's probably going to leave Islam once he gets bored with it and he agreed.

[Xpycoctomos]

Wow... Rainbowbright... I am so sorry. My heart goes out to you. This must be completely heart wrenching for you.

Obviously prayer is the strongest weapon.

This site might help you. http://www.answering-islam.org/

My friend had correspondance with the creator some years ago. He (the creator) is a convert (to some Christian denomination, but not the CHurch) and my friend said that although he is not Orthodox, he did not seem anti-Orthodox/Catholic. Anyway, at the very least is might be a good starting point. It has many many stories from people who left Islam for CHristianity.

Also, Fr Daniel Byantoro was a devout Muslim in Indonesia who converted to Orthodoxy. Obviously by his title, he is now a priest (actually he is an archimandrite). He actually has some audio lectures out on tape/CD that you can probably find if you just search around enough. I don't know if he has a book but if not I hope he has plans too.
http://friendsofindonesia.org/about/fr_daniel/
Xpy

Here's a link I found about him: http://friendsofindonesia.org/about/fr_daniel/
And if you go to the main sight it is for ORthodox in Indonesia which is obviously related since Indonesia is militantly Orthodox.

[Thekla]

Kyrie eleison !

I'm sorry to hear this, Rainbowbright !

[vanshan]

Lord have mercy.

If he's receptive have him view "What the West Needs to Know about Islam" which you can find online: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781

Recommend he take time to listen to the cons, not just the pros that those who are trying to convert him may pitch to him. This video uses facts to indicate some real problems with Islamic belief.

Another site you may want to direct him to is: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Basil

[Komnenos]

Convert to Islam!?!?! Lord have mercy!! The Bible even says that there will be no other Gospel "Even if preached by an Angel of the Lord" Muhammad said an Angel came to him and told him about Islam! Coincidence?

[MariaRegina]

Isnt Mormonism also supposedly derived from a vision of an Angel?

I once had a friend who told me that she had a vision of an angel.
Oh, yeah, and she was a Catholic who converted to Orthodoxy and
then went back into Catholicism as a sedevacantist Catholic. :(

According to her story, she saw an angel who warned her about an
impending earthquake. She told me to turn to the news channel.
In fact, according to the CHP, as reported on Channel 4 news,
in summer of 1994, about 13 people who were traveling south bound
to Los Angeles were apparently visited by a brilliant Angel who
sat down next to the driver in the front seat and told them that
there would be a huge earthquake within 15 minutes, and that
they should make an immediate turn about and head north.

The California Highway Patrol reported that these people then did
the unthinkable -- they made a U turn on the freeway and not only
endangered their own lives and the lives of the children in the car
with them, but also the lives of the people next to them on the
freeway.

Of course, no earthquake took place, and apparently no accidents
occurred from the strange behavior of the errant drivers.

The people involved in wrong way driving were convinced that
this was an Angel of the Lord even though the information given was
false.

Strange what people want to believe.

[Dorothea]

Good grief. You have so much on your plate, and this wishy-washiness with your husband isn't helping. I pray he finds peace in Orthodoxy and stops all this. I pray for you and your family, rainbow. It was good to see you Saturday evening. You looked wonderful. Take care. :hug:

[jckstraw72]

Lord have mercy!

[katherine2001]

Rainbow Bright, look at the site for Fr. Daniel Byantoro that was listed. He came to speak at our church during Lent and he would probably have some good ways to help you. He is in Indonesia (he comes to the States also to speak and raise money for his Orthodox priests, since they cannot hold other jobs since they are no longer Muslim). He is ex-Muslim, and even converted his grandfather to Christianity (though not Orthodox since Fr. Daniel wasn't Orthodox yet), who was the Iman in their village. If you email him, he may be able to give you some ideas.

[Theodoros of Atlanta]

When I asked him why he was willing to deny Christ, he said he could never figure out why God needed an intermediary so he's never thought much of Christ anyways.

Wow. I don't know how you could stomach hearing that!

[Philothei]

Rainbow I only can offer prayers... Pretty much what everyone said here. I think those of us that have come in contact with or heard of the Turkish/muslim rule know that their religion is not the one who saves.... Christ was the last prophet who gave us all the revelation needed to our salvation... Again Prayers to you and I admire your courage to remain true to your faith, to Christ and His Church .You are under percecution right now :( May God keep you under his protection...

[Montalban]

my husband got sucked into research on Islam and last night, he informed me that Islam was really the 'true' religion, I threatened divorce if he converted and after a very long talk, he is now no longer considering converting. We're at least safe for now or as long as I'm around, but he says he's going to pray for me for a change of heart. :doh:

Invite him here to answer any questions on Islam - I'd be glad to help out

[Julina]

Isnt Mormonism also supposedly derived from a vision of an Angel?

i was actually wondering about the similarities between Mormonism and Islam. half the world would probably be out to kill me if i looked more into it though.

Prayers for you, Rainbowbright!

[Nichole]

:hug: for you friend! I can sympathize with you and will keep you in my prayers!

:crosseo:
Nichole

[rainbowbright]

Thanks again. Last night my husband told me he was doing research on the Christian view of Islam and was reading St John of Damascus. He said it has changed his view of Islam somewhat and said the other half of the Quaran isn't as good as the first half and that he realized they just want to conquer the world and will then at that time become the religion of peace. So now he can see that they are a violent religion. I have never read the Quaran and I don't have a minor in Eastern religion like he does and all I can say to that is DUH!!!!:doh:Then he started talking about buddhism but I didn't eve get the point of why because I fell asleep while he was still talking

Wow. I don't know how you could stomach hearing that!
Yeah I thought I was going to throw up. My mom now can't see him in the same light.

[Hoankan]

Then he started talking about buddhism but I didn't eve get the point of why because I fell asleep while he was still talking


Ugh. Someone get some books by Seraphim Rose to this man quickly.

Lord have mercy:crosseo:

[MariaRegina]

i was actually wondering about the similarities between Mormonism and Islam. half the world would probably be out to kill me if i looked more into it though.

Prayers for you, Rainbowbright!

Hey, we had a thread about that I think. It might be buried somewhere in the archives.

Anyway there are some strange parallels between Mormonism, Islam, and Masonry (Islam and Masons known as Shriners wear those strange hats).

[vanshan]

I guess anyone can claim they've received a "new" revelation or testament, such as Mohammed or Joseph Smith, but Christ declared, "It is finished." He completed all that is necessary for man's salvation, so for these false prophets to come up later and suggest that more is needed is outright blasphemy. Examining the fruit of these movements and their "prophets" reveals their true nature and origin.

The charismatics do the same thing . . . each person can claim to receive a word from God, revealing something new God is doing, as if something new is needed.

Basil

[ArmyMatt]

but Christ declared, "It is finished."


Amen!

Lord have mercy. you are in my prayers

[GBTWC]

your situation reminded me of this scripture: 1 Cor 7:13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
Ill pray for you guys

[JustinHesychast]

Islam can be very appealing. I have nearly been converted many times.

But, as it seems, your husband has a problem with switching religions. I think that's a diagnosable disorder, in fact.

Lord, have mercy!

[katherine2001]

I was just over at the Ancient Faith Radio site and noticed that Fr. Daniel Byantoro has a podcast there. Rainbowbright, you may want to check it out. I am sure that he will bring the Muslim viewpoint into each of his podcasts, since he was raised Muslim (his grandfather was the Iman in their village). He visited our church during Lent, and he is a very dynamic speaker. He is wonderful to listen to.

[rainbowbright]

Thanks. I think we may be able to hold onto him a little longer. I arranged for him to talk to a priest last night and they spoke for two hours. This priest is going to try to arrange a pilgrimage to Mt Athos for my husband next year and I just saw my husband walk off with a book by Theophan the Recluse

[MariaRegina]

Thanks. I think we may be able to hold onto him a little longer. I arranged for him to talk to a priest last night and they spoke for two hours. This priest is going to try to arrange a pilgrimage to Mt Athos for my husband next year and I just saw my husband walk off with a book by Theophan the Recluse

Wonderful. Can you share the name of this priest just in case someone else needs help?

[rainbowbright]

That's odd, i posted yesterday- The priest's name is Fr Dennis

[MichaelArchangelos]

Thanks again. Last night my husband told me he was doing research on the Christian view of Islam and was reading St John of Damascus. He said it has changed his view of Islam somewhat and said the other half of the Quaran isn't as good as the first half and that he realized they just want to conquer the world and will then at that time become the religion of peace. So now he can see that they are a violent religion. I have never read the Quaran and I don't have a minor in Eastern religion like he does and all I can say to that is DUH!!!!:doh:

It's good that he is looking at both sides of it. That is something I never did before I converted to Islam, and something that I realise I should have done now. Tell him that he has free will to enter Islam, but for those Muslims in Islamic countries, they don't have free will to leave it, as it is usually a crime punishable by death (although here in Malaysia the worst you'll be given "officially" is six strokes of the cane).

Then he started talking about buddhism but I didn't eve get the point of why because I fell asleep while he was still talking

I'd be wary of Buddhism if I were you. Buddhism is essentially a pre-theistic message - do good things and be the best person you can, etc. It is silent on the topic of God, and there are many Buddhists who actively oppose belief in God and are essentially atheists. Their ultimate goal is to enter nirvana, where one loses his individuality. Buddhists do not believe in the existence of the soul, either.

Rainbowbright, if your husband has a strong belief in God (which is evident from his interest in Islam) then Buddhism is not the faith for him, as there is no Creator God and the meditation is directed inward, rather than Christian meditation which is directed at God.

[xcrunner71]

Your husband said there's no need for an intermediary between God and man... yikes! What about Muhammad? To me it seems Islam was based off a guy who went out in the desert, found some magic mushrooms, decided God talked to him and told him Islam is the only religion acceptable by God, and any other beliefs will either be converted or terminated.

Most muslims believe Jesus was a prophet and was most likely closer to God than any other man. If he brings this up, ask him how a man so close to God (who cannot lie) could lie about who he was and who his Father was. Sorry your hands are so full, I hope everything works out for the best.

[Soha]

Rainbowbright, I once had a co-worker try to convert me to Islam. She even gave me a quaran (spelling?) to read. I thumbed through it out of curiosity, but of course it went no further than that. That religion is very frightening. I pray for your husband and hope he pulls his head out of the clouds very soon. And praise God for you remaining so strong in your faith and devotion to Christ:hug::crosseo:
I also want to add that not too long ago I had several friends who were Muslims. I thought of them as good people, very kind. In fact, it puzzled me when others spoke badly against muslims and Islam, because I knew these muslim friends of mine to be very nice. Well, one evening we had delved into a discussion about politics, the war, race, religion, etc..etc..and to make a long story short, these people revealed their true colors and beliefs, as well as the true nature of Islam, which is not a religion which promotes peace whatsoever.

[Dorothea]

That's odd, i posted yesterday- The priest's name is Fr Dennis
Yeah, and he's a Godsend and awesome. :P :D

[MariaRegina]

Does Father Dennis have a blog? If yes, please ask him to jot down his thoughts and responses to people who are struggling with their faith.

Occasionally, I run across people who are thinking of leaving Orthodoxy and it would surely help to have a website to which I can send them.

For example, we have had a lot of people leave our parish because they cannot stand the fighting that occurs almost every Sunday after liturgy over the Divine Liturgy. Our parish is almost half FOB ("Fresh off the boat") folks, but our parish council insists that we must follow the stupid by-laws which state that we are an English-only parish. We should not be guided by man-made rules but by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is inclusive, not exclusive.

[Bushmaster78FS]

Islam is a religion STRAIGHT from the PIT of HELL!

[Bushmaster78FS]

What about Muhammad? To me it seems Islam was based off a guy who went out in the desert, found some magic mushrooms, decided God talked to him and told him Islam is the only religion acceptable by God, and any other beliefs will either be converted or terminated.

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. - St. Paul's letter to Galatians...

[Thekla]

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. - St. Paul's letter to Galatians...

Hey, Bushmaster !

WELCOME HOME :clap:

[MariaRegina]

Hey, Hey, The F-16 has landed.

[Chocolatesa]

God bless you. I will pray for you. (Wish I coulda been a fly on THAT wall!)

Don't feel too badly; a spouse who converts to Christianity to please his/her spouse, can be just as maddening....that's what happened to me...several years ago (almost ten years ago now.) , when I was married, my then-husband, converted to Orthodoxy. Shortly afterward, he went nuts (literally) and completely destroyed whatever marriage we had left. We were never married in the Church.... I left him without a second thought, and have never looked back since. Some things are just not your fault and out of your control. (The kicker is: for a long while he tried to "out-Orthodox" me....now he's converted back to Mormonism...:doh:)

It just goes to show you that a person cannot live a spiritual life vicariously through the spouse....they have to tread that path alone.

Yeah I had to leave mine 2 years ago for the same reason (minus the religion problems). Makes me wonder if I should be trying to push my boyfriend away from Orthodoxy to make sure that if he ever does get interested in it it's really for himself and not just to go along with me lol.

:crosseo:

[Bushmaster78FS]

Hey, Bushmaster !

WELCOME HOME :clap:

Hey, Hey, The F-16 has landed.

Heh heh, it was a DC-10 this time :)

[rainbowbright]

Hey, welcome home Bushmaster!!!
Does Father Dennis have a blog? If yes, please ask him to jot down his thoughts and responses to people who are struggling with their faith.

Occasionally, I run across people who are thinking of leaving Orthodoxy and it would surely help to have a website to which I can send them.

For example, we have had a lot of people leave our parish because they cannot stand the fighting that occurs almost every Sunday after liturgy over the Divine Liturgy. Our parish is almost half FOB ("Fresh off the boat") folks, but our parish council insists that we must follow the stupid by-laws which state that we are an English-only parish. We should not be guided by man-made rules but by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is inclusive, not exclusive.
I'm not sure if he has a blog or not, but I don't think he does. If you want his email, I could pm you.

[Bushmaster78FS]

FOB: Forward Operations Base :D :D :D

[rainbowbright]

okay, it's deleted now

[Chocolatesa]

:o :crosseo:

[JustinHesychast]

Dear God, rainbowbright! Lord, have mercy!! :crosseo:

:hug:

[Matrona]

Oh, dear. :(

[Anhelyna]

What can one say ?

In the same circumstances I would probably have done exactly the same thing .

Prayers for you in this new trial.

Maybe it's time to make sure that you and the children will be able to survive as a family unit if his implied statement does indeed come to pass. A little forward planning does no harm.

Prayers that he comes to his senses - he certainly does seem to waver and flit from one thing to another.

Prayers for you that you have strength to cope with this

[Lukaris]

I assume custody of your children is in your favor (only suggesting for vigilance). May he come to his senses & Lord have mercy.:crosseo:

[rainbowbright]

my godmother is already planning my 'escape'

[Philothei]

Prayers Rainbrowbright :( With your prayers maybe his heart will soften. He has a whole family... that ought to tell him that Islam is false if he has to deny his whole family and cause so much evil.... :(... Pm to me yur names so my hubby can put you in the Parklesis/supplication service....

[Bushmaster78FS]

okay, it's deleted now

I have read it through email notification before you deleted it. Send your husband to me! He is being a retard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMLJJEDDDGc

Watch this and have him watch it. It is a ten part video, I am only linking the first one. You can find the links of other parts as you continue to click links on the right watch. Disregard the POLITICALLY CORRECT disclaimer in the beginning that the videos don't regard to "moderate" muslims. It is a pitch to avoid attacks obviously. There is NO SUCH THING as a moderate "westernized" muslim!!!!

[Bushmaster78FS]

my godmother is already planning my 'escape'

You haven't married to this person in the Church correct? It is time to let him know he has a choice, the satanic religion of the arab or you...

[rainbowbright]

aww, the video's not available anymore. nope, we weren't married in the Church, thankfully. I kept telling him we should, but he said one wedding was enough for him.

[Bushmaster78FS]

Video is playing on my computer... Right this moment I am typing this. Can you see other YouTube videos? This video is a must see. You should see it.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

If not, I can purchase it and send it to you. If it will keep your husband from believing the tall tales of the islamists!

[Bushmaster78FS]

nope, we weren't married in the Church, thankfully. I kept telling him we should, but he said one wedding was enough for him.

All he needs to do is talk to the right people! Does he even know himself "why islam?"

[rainbowbright]

okay, I actually had to go to youtube, but I'm watching it now

[Bushmaster78FS]

okay, I actually had to go to youtube, but I'm watching it now

Good!!!

[Bushmaster78FS]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7258400

Here is an example thread where you can see how muslims on these forums actually think!

At this forum section; http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=76

You will be able to see many muslim arguments against Christianity, most utterly ridiculous. You can have him join here also, if he has to learn how Christianity answers allegations of islamists.

[MariaRegina]

My prayers.

[Julina]

There is NO SUCH THING as a moderate "westernized" muslim!!!!
you are absolutely right about this. of course, the Muslim i was talking to isn't from the U.S. but i thought he'd still be somewhat moderate since he apparently isn't practicing. i asked him that since Judiasm, Christianity and Islam are all monotheistic if they all beleive in the same God. he said yes. i asked him why he thinks Islam is the "right" religion and he said it's because it's the last one (or something to that effect). he also said that there are many things wrong with Christianity, but he and i have yet to discuss this.

[Bushmaster78FS]

you are absolutely right about this. of course, the Muslim i was talking to isn't from the U.S. but i thought he'd still be somewhat moderate since he apparently isn't practicing. i asked him that since Judiasm, Christianity and Islam are all monotheistic if they all beleive in the same God. he said yes. i asked him why he thinks Islam is the "right" religion and he said it's because it's the last one (or something to that effect). he also said that there are many things wrong with Christianity, but he and i have yet to discuss this.

Sure, it is the last one... What about Bahai Faith then? What is the explanation that Christianity is not true? Where is the proof that Christianity is corrupted? Bible has been changed? When? Where? How? By whom?

They are such hypocrites. If you claim to be a muslim from a secular country, they call you a brother! If you claim you converted to Christianity but was raised in a secular country, then it is "oh you were never a muslim" In the same time they acknowledge that Islam can not be secular, and can not be practiced in a secular country! Great! So once again it is proven "American Muslim" is an oxymoron!

[Bushmaster78FS]

I invite everyone to check out Non-Christian Religion section once in a while! Philothei does it often and joins us in our answers to the islamists. Buzuxi once stopped by and whooped some serious muslim butt :D

The threat from islam to our freedoms are real and needs to be dealt with... We are only helping them with our ignorance about their false religion, and bam, they are one step ahead, they claim we don't know, in reality it is a religion of peace... Baloney!

[Soha]

I think, possibly, that Islam is a true threat to the world. It's a very frightening thing :(

[Soha]

I think, possibly, that Islam is a true threat to the world. It's a very frightening thing :(

[Philothei]

if they all beleive in the same God.
[quote]

They do not believe in the same God... Their god is not the same as our loving God the Fahter of Christ... He is not the God of Abraham... He is some god who is selective and violent... a false god. An antrhropomorphic god.

[Xpycoctomos]

I do think that there are moderates who consider themselves muslim, meaning that they don't have it "in" for Chrisitians or want to see them dead. They just see islam as a cultural thing that they follow because their parents did it. They don't care about the theology or anything. Now, are they true to what their faith REALLY is? It doesn't seem so, so from that standpoint, I would agree that it could be techinically argued that they are no more muslim than the serbian who is "Orthodox" because it makes him feel more serbian, yet, on the other hand doesn't really care that much about the faith itself.

There are a lot of muslims like this. It's just a cultural thing for them.

I get concerned when I meet the one's who take it seriously because real faith has real consequences and I don't think the consequences of true Islam are anything good.

Xpy

[Philothei]

I do think that there are moderates who consider themselves muslim, meaning that they don't have it "in" for Chrisitians or want to see them dead.

No, there are no moderates mulsims... Especially those who "convert" do not become 'moderate" muslims...

Every Mulsim would say they are not "in" for Christians ...at least never met anyone who does...

How about they want to see dead all ex-muslims?

They just see islam as a cultural thing that they follow because their parents did it. They don't care about the theology or anything.
You are eitherr a muslim or not .. Those you talk about are atheists not muslims ...
Now, are they true to what their faith REALLY is?
No they do not and they do not care since they are atheists... they do not practice.


It doesn't seem so, so from that standpoint, I would agree that it could be techinically argued that they are no more muslim than the serbian who is "Orthodox" because it makes him feel more serbian, yet, on the other hand doesn't really care that much about the faith itself.

In this case Rainbow bright husband is not going to be a non-practicig mulsim...but he will go though indocrination... he will become a "practicing" mulsim.


There are a lot of muslims like this. It's just a cultural thing for them.

Again this is not the situation here..


I get concerned when I meet the one's who take it seriously because real faith has real consequences and I don't think the consequences of true Islam are anything good.

Xpy


We do too... we are very concerned... since in this case Rainbow husband is not going to be a "cultural, non practicing " muslim....

[MichaelArchangelos]

I do think that there are moderates who consider themselves muslim, meaning that they don't have it "in" for Chrisitians or want to see them dead. They just see islam as a cultural thing that they follow because their parents did it. They don't care about the theology or anything. Now, are they true to what their faith REALLY is? It doesn't seem so, so from that standpoint, I would agree that it could be techinically argued that they are no more muslim than the serbian who is "Orthodox" because it makes him feel more serbian, yet, on the other hand doesn't really care that much about the faith itself.

There are a lot of muslims like this. It's just a cultural thing for them.

I get concerned when I meet the one's who take it seriously because real faith has real consequences and I don't think the consequences of true Islam are anything good.

Xpy

Many Muslims in Malaysia are like this. I used to work in an office with four Muslims (3 men and 1 woman who didn't wear the headscarf), from 12pm to 8pm, and there are three prayer times in that time period. I never saw any of them leave the office for prayer. Many of the Muslims that I meet here in Malaysia are lovely, kind people who respect those who follow other religions.

However, I met one Indian Muslim man who sat next to me on the bus and kept insulting Hinduism (he was an ex-Hindu). Just like what MariaRegina said about the Muslims taking over the meeting that she saw, this guy wouldn't listen to my defence of Hinduism or any of my arguments at all. As I got off the bus, I told him to "just chant Hare Krishna".

[Xpycoctomos]

We do too... we are very concerned... since in this case Rainbow husband is not going to be a "cultural, non practicing " muslim....

Yeah. I would be too.

[Xpycoctomos]

Many Muslims in Malaysia are like this. I used to work in an office with four Muslims (3 men and 1 woman who didn't wear the headscarf), from 12pm to 8pm, and there are three prayer times in that time period. I never saw any of them leave the office for prayer. Many of the Muslims that I meet here in Malaysia are lovely, kind people who respect those who follow other religions.

However, I met one Indian Muslim man who sat next to me on the bus and kept insulting Hinduism (he was an ex-Hindu). Just like what MariaRegina said about the Muslims taking over the meeting that she saw, this guy wouldn't listen to my defence of Hinduism or any of my arguments at all. As I got off the bus, I told him to "just chant Hare Krishna".

I'll pray for you Michael.

[Julina]

i admit i really don't know a lot about Islam. i'm wondering why Judiasm, Christianity and Islam are all grouped together as the Abrahamic Religions when Islam just seems so far off from the other two.

fun fact: i was reading an encycolpedia from the 1830s, and the definition for "Mahometanism" (the old word for Islam) described Mohamed as an "imposter".

[Montalban]

fun fact: i was reading an encycolpedia from the 1830s, and the definition for "Mahometanism" (the old word for Islam) described Mohamed as an "imposter".

A few years ago I went on a tour of the state Government Records Repository. They had some old police records from around 1900. All the Chinese and Indians who were on files were listed as 'pagan' - for their religion because if they weren't Catholic, or Protestant, they were 'pagan' ^_^

[Shubunkin]

Prayers for you and your husband. :crosseo:

I recently found out that the Turkish Muslims were the ones that had advised the Nazis how to "dispose" of the Jews, and other undesireables at the beginning of WWII. (This made sense out of a pin that had the Turkish emblem on it from my father's WWII Nazi collections he brought back from the war.) If you can, order the "Farewell Israel" DVD at Amazon.com. It shows the entire history of Islam, and when it's all put together, there is only one possible outcome for the entire world. Become Muslim, or die. It is not a peaceful religion.

[Xpycoctomos]

No... actually it's not if you look at the details of this case. But, if we want to play Dr Phil then yes, we can take some choice details that work to fit our pop-analysis and force it to work.

[rainbowbright]

Yeah, it's not, the Church's canons state that in the case of when there is a married Orthodox couple and one spouse decides to apostasize (they must be Orthodox, it doesn't count if they are Baptist or Lutheran) then divorce is permissible. I told my husband that if he became Buddhist, or atheist or even cheated on me (one time only) that I could stay married to him. I wouldn't do it on my own without the guidance of my priest. I am not to forcing him to not become Muslim, it is still his choice and he now knows the consequences if he does decide to do it.

[Philothei]

I do not think this has to do with "abuse" or 'black mail" rather a straight forward consequence...of his own actions.

Since when was okay for women who 'convert' into a religion that undermines women's roles and is responsible for many many genocides in the middle eastern countriesplus proclaim world domination with the sword... considered an okay marital blishfull situation for you?

Are spouses in a marriage allowed to determine who they are married to? Marriage does not "justifies" all. When they were married her husband was Christian, it is hardly her fault that he is making a decision to convert to islam. I do not think it would have been an issue if he was converting to some other religion...


BTW Shubunkin...just for your information it was not ONLY the jews who the Turkish Muslim got rid off...The ethnic cleansing of Greeks and Armenians were more serious. It is just that Turkey is slow and well "protected" to admit to such attrocities. Until such history is restored I do not see how they can ever enter EU.


edit: wow...another mistake ....thanks Anhelyna

[Xpycoctomos]

Ecc?

[Anhelyna]

I think Philothei is thinking in Greek again :)

She meant , I suspect , Europe

[Julina]

oh dear. i'm dating a turkish muslim right now. i'd never dare to bring any of this up with him though.

[Anhelyna]

Julina - be careful - be very very careful

[gzt]

Julina: I hate to have to say it, but why are you dating a Muslim? A Christian cannot marry a non-Christian in the Church, and what's the point of dating somebody you cannot marry?

[Dorothea]

oh dear. i'm dating a turkish muslim right now. i'd never dare to bring any of this up with him though.
I agree that you should be careful. I just wonder why you'd date someone you couldn't marry one day, if that's what you're thinking. Unless this is some casual dating thing. :confused:

[MariaRegina]

oh dear. i'm dating a turkish muslim right now. i'd never dare to bring any of this up with him though.

Dear Julina,

There have been cases here in the Southland where young women were kidnapped by their muslim boyfriends while they were having a meal together in a helicopter just to see the sights. They were then spirited out of the USA and forced into servitude as one of many wives.

Before I was Orthodox, I dated a muslim guy just once, and he tried to rape me. After that I made a pledge never to date a non-practicing Christian, and the Lord helped me to find my husband within a short time.

Nevertheless, even dating a Protestant or a Catholic Christian can lead to a rocky road when the couple has an inter-faith marriage. Even when one party converts to Orthodoxy, so that both spouses are then Orthodox, there can still be serious problems due to in-law interference. We certainly have had our share of problems with both our non-Orthodox inlaws. Although several in-laws have now come to appreciate our Orthodox faith, it has taken many years.

Now that my son has married into a Greek Orthodox family, it is wonderful. We have family again.

[MariaRegina]

Dear Rainbowbright,

I will pray to St. Seraphim of Sarov. He is powerful. Many muslims went to see him while St. Seraphim was alive.

There have been several studies done concerning the faith of a father.

When the father's faith is not stable and when he does not go to Church and pray regularly at night with his children, then the faith of the children suffers, even if the wife is very devout.

The father has a profound affect on the children, and then according to Muslim rule, if a father is a Muslim, the children must be brought up as little Muslims too.

I can see why you are concerned. And yes, it is spousal abuse on your husband's part by subjecting you to emotional and spiritual harm. My prayers.

What are his parent's feelings?

[Philothei]

I would be careful about "casual" dating a Muslim... any nationality. Do you know if they rape a girl they can claim her as their bride? I think that Maria Regina already stated that...I do not mean to scare you but nothing guarantee you he will convert to be a christian.... Although love can conquer all, true.... Depends I guess on the person. I know that Bushmaster did convert :) to Orthodoxy... But... I cannot say that that would be the rule....either.
Defenately you should be careful dating him though ...

[rainbowbright]

Dear Rainbowbright,

I will pray to St. Seraphim of Sarov. He is powerful. Many muslims went to see him while St. Seraphim was alive.

There have been several studies done concerning the faith of a father.

When the father's faith is not stable and when he does not go to Church and pray regularly at night with his children, then the faith of the children suffers, even if the wife is very devout.

The father has a profound affect on the children, and then according to Muslim rule, if a father is a Muslim, the children must be brought up as little Muslims too.



I can see why you are concerned. And yes, it is spousal abuse on your husband's part by subjecting you to emotional and spiritual harm. My prayers.

What are his parent's feelings?

Thanks MR
I haven't told his parents yet and I doubt they would think anything of it. The other day he went to the mosque and got a qu'ran but yesterday he emailed me at work and told me not to freak out about the qu'ran on the bookshelf: he had been planning on looking more into Islam, but he found the qu'ran to be disconjuncted so he's decided to give it up (for now anyways) and he says instead, buddhism sounds more appealing because he doesn't have to worship a God. Right now I'm just relieved it's Islam.

[Thekla]

please consider that perhaps he is a bit overwhelmed by "life", and is looking for an escape from the pressure - that his faith is weak, and this is a way to express his "pain"

[rainbowbright]

believe me I've considered it

[gzt]

I agree with drpepper about the absurd propaganda concerning rapacious Muslims wanting to rape and abduct unsuspecting women in their helicopters. I mean, come on. Can't we at least once keep it on an even keel? Keep it about the purely religious questions? The Muslim visitor really does have a point: we look like idiots and it discredits the perfectly valid and helpful advice that does come. That is, it's a bad idea to date a Muslim, but it's not because he might rape you and fly you to Syria for a shotgun marriage and a forced conversion, and bringing that up as a reason will only make people forget the good reasons you listed.

[Akathist]

http://christianforums.com/picture.php?pictureid=609&albumid=103&dl=1210213731&thumb=1 (http://christianforums.com/album.php?albumid=103&pictureid=609)

Thread closed for staff review.

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT ON

Reopening this thread.

Let's remember that folks who are not EO are restricted to fellowship posts.

MOD HAT OFF

[Julina]

yay! i just wanted to let everyone know that yes, i am fine, and thank you for your concern. i just had sort of a summer fling with this guy (a turkish muslim). he has to go back to Turkey, and from what i heard long distance relationships don't really work out. he also mentioned that he would want to raise his children as Muslims, so marriage would definitely be out of the question in that case. but at least now i have a place to stay if i ever go to Turkey (yeah, right).

Let's remember that folks who are not EO are restricted to fellowship posts.
what do you mean by this?

i was really curious as to what the Muslim had to say.

[Bushmaster78FS]

yay! i just wanted to let everyone know that yes, i am fine, and thank you for your concern. i just had sort of a summer fling with this guy (a turkish muslim). he has to go back to Turkey, and from what i heard long distance relationships don't really work out. he also mentioned that he would want to raise his children as Muslims, so marriage would definitely be out of the question in that case. but at least now i have a place to stay if i ever go to Turkey (yeah, right).

My wife's faith was very important to her and she asked me to go to church and I didn't refuse, nor I had a second thought about it, yet I was confused with the Christian doctrine, it was a sacrifice. That knucklehead is not willing to do the same to you.

i was really curious as to what the Muslim had to say.

They are all over at Non-Christian Religion subforum.

[Julina]

My wife's faith was very important to her and she asked me to go to church and I didn't refuse, nor I had a second thought about it, yet I was confused with the Christian doctrine, it was a sacrifice. That knucklehead is not willing to do the same to you.
so she was Orthodox? what were you?
and he's not a knucklehead! but you are right about him not willing to do the same, or so i could pretty safely assume.

[MariaRegina]

Hey Bushmaster,

Are you saying that your wife led you to Christianity, but then you opened the door of Orthodoxy to her? How did you ever discover Orthodoxy? Did you publish your story somewhere at CF?

[Bushmaster78FS]

and he's not a knucklehead! but you are right about him not willing to do the same, or so i could pretty safely assume.

I am Turkish so I know how his mind operates, he is a knucklehead. You said he would want the children be raised as muslims, that is not one person's call but two.

My wife was going to pentecostal church however she didn't claim any denominations nor doctrinal attachment to any other teachings. Though she was solid on what she believed as a Christian. I was a muslim, pretty much like a typical Turk "read knucklehead :)" who had refused to entertain the idea of investigating Christianity all my life. I did become a Christian but my investigation didn't end LOL!

[Bushmaster78FS]

Aria, it is a long story but yes she directly or indirectly led me to it, I was also willing to. I am not sure if we ever talked about how to raise kids but I was willing to let her decide, so unlike Julina's boyfriend, which leads me to believe he is more than likely from a traditional area.

[Nichole]

Aria---yes, eventually BM led me to Orthodoxy!!!!

Oh........and for the raising the children issue. I had told him at one time that when we had children they would be raised in Christianity (of course, he was still Muslim then). ;)

[MariaRegina]

Just curious, John (BM), how did you feel when Nichole told you that she wanted to raise your children as Christians? Did it gnaw at you, and did you feel that she was kind of bold for saying that? Did it upset you? Or were you gradually coming to believe in Christianity because of the love she had?

My husband told me that he had been looking at Christianity for a long time, and that he wanted to be baptized by my priest.

[Futuwwa]

what do you mean by this?

i was really curious as to what the Muslim had to say.

:) PM me if there is something you want to know. I'm not allowed to discuss this topic here, and even if I were, it would be about as constructive as discussing anything related to Judaism with the venerable Borat Sagdiyev.

[Philothei]

that is right You are not allowed to discuss anything about Islam here You can take it through pm good idea Futwa ;)

[Bushmaster78FS]

Just curious, John (BM), how did you feel when Nichole told you that she wanted to raise your children as Christians?

Nothing specific really. It was not about kids for me at that time, or religion, it was about our happiness...


Did it gnaw at you, and did you feel that she was kind of bold for saying that? Did it upset you?

Nope, I thought, if this would be an issue at all, we could have always brought it up later on.

Or were you gradually coming to believe in Christianity because of the love she had?

Her and the church we were going.

My husband told me that he had been looking at Christianity for a long time, and that he wanted to be baptized by my priest.

When? Recently?

[Gwenyfur]

Gentlemen...

Play nice, or I'll have to close the sandbox ;)

[MariaRegina]

When? Recently?

My husband was baptized a month before we were married (26 years ago).

Since then we both were received along with our son into the Orthodox Church by chrismation.

[Orchids]

Gentlemen...

Play nice, or I'll have to close the sandbox ;)

Who are you talking to? :confused:

[Gwenyfur]

I spent about 14 hours in Turkey on my way home from Iraq in '92...

food was good...coffee was AWESOME :yum:

People were somewhat guarded...but I rather expected that since I was in uniform

[Gwenyfur]

Who are you talking to? :confused:

The guys ;)