Rejoicing at a healing testimony from a group you disagree with, probably WOF.

[charityagape]

When you hear a healing testimony from someone who you agree with doctrinally, it your first reaction to doubt the veracity of that healing and to downplay it, or is your first reaction to rejoice with the person regarding their healing?

[CryoftheNation]

Pesonally I (mostly) praise God for it! There are plenty of people who I don't agree with, however we serve the same God, have the same CORE beliefs. That makes us Brothers and Sisters, whether or not we believe the same in every area is irrelevant.

The sad thing is, if we sat down and talked calmly and honestly with each other, we'd find we had far more in common than we think, and that the things we differ on probably don't matter that much anyway!

God bless

Simon

[FoundInGrace]

Pesonally I (mostly) praise God for it! There are plenty of people who I don't agree with, however we serve the same God, have the same CORE beliefs. That makes us Brothers and Sisters, whether or not we believe the same in every area is irrelevant.

The sad thing is, if we sat down and talked calmly and honestly with each other, we'd find we had far more in common than we think, and that the things we differ on probably don't matter that much anyway!

God bless

Simon

:thumbsup:

[ARBITER01]

When you hear a healing testimony from someone who you agree with doctrinally, it your first reaction to doubt the veracity of that healing and to downplay it, or is your first reaction to rejoice with the person regarding their healing?

Healing is not a guaranteed act of GOD. Sorry,... but many folks think it is when it isn't.

It matters not what anyone says or does, it only matters what The Holy Spirit reveals as truth. I could have 10 thousand folks say they were healed at Bentley's circus, that doesn't mean anything, nor would I pronounce it of GOD when GOD HIMSELF is not telling me anything different inside.

We are to lean upon The Holy Spirit and what He reveals, not what we hear or see.

[CryoftheNation]

Healing is not a guaranteed act of GOD. Sorry,... but many folks think it is when it isn't.

It matters not what anyone says or does, it only matters what The Holy Spirit reveals as truth. I could have 10 thousand folks say they were healed at Bentley's circus, that doesn't mean anything, nor would I pronounce it of GOD when GOD HIMSELF is not telling me anything different inside.

We are to lean upon The Holy Spirit and what He reveals, not what we hear or see.

Ever thought that He is trying to tell you different, but you're too wound up in your own "theologies" and "discernments" to notice? :D:D

Just a joke - although it is a valid question, and one that I ask of myself too! Sometimes we get so convinced of something that we block out anything and everything else including the still small voice of God.

God Bless

Simon

[BenAdam]

When you hear a healing testimony from someone who you agree with doctrinally, it your first reaction to doubt the veracity of that healing and to downplay it, or is your first reaction to rejoice with the person regarding their healing?

It really depends CA. The way the story is told (a friend of a friend knew this guy who heard), the veracity of the person, etc have effects on how I receive something. If I hear that someone got healed at church and the story goes like "He laid hands on me and I got healed of Diabetes" I most likely would give it little heed until medical evidence shows no Diabetes. If I hear that "He laid hands on me and now I can see when I was totally blind before" well I beleive that.

A great example of these stories is the one about the "dead" child from Florida ala Todd Bentley. It was put forth as a baby was raised from the dead right before organs were harvested. Well that wasn't exactly true, but I rejoiced that a family got their baby back regardless of whether or not the story was completely accurate.

[ARBITER01]

Ever thought that He is trying to tell you different, but you're too wound up in your own "theologies" and "discernments" to notice? :D:D

Just a joke - although it is a valid question, and one that I ask of myself too! Sometimes we get so convinced of something that we block out anything and everything else including the still small voice of God.

God Bless

Simon

When I ask GOD a specific question about a subject, I try to seek answers from GOD to it over a period of time. When the revelation and knowledge of the subject continues to be a certain way over that period of time, I'm then assured that it was GOD revealing the matter. Additionally, I find that GOD continues to reveal aspects of the truth over the subject even after I have received from HIM.

I look for more than just 2 or 3 witnesses to the truth, and GOD never fails on that when I ask.

[CryoftheNation]

When I ask GOD a specific question about a subject, I try to seek answers from GOD to it over a period of time. When the revelation and knowledge of the subject continues to be a certain way over that period of time, I'm then assured that it was GOD revealing the matter. Additionally, I find that GOD continues to reveal aspects of the truth over the subject even after I have received from HIM.

I look for more than just 2 or 3 witnesses to the truth, and GOD never fails on that when I ask.

:thumbsup: That's good my friend. But just because it comes over a period of time is no guarantee it comes from God. Even this revelation needs to be tested by the word in an unbiased manner. If I already doubt something it is very hard not to put my own spin on what I hear. That is why we also have to also seek other witnesses who have seen and heard.

Some people (no accusations here) will sit back having seen something on the TV and denounce it without having gone and seen it for themselves. They use the "I don't want to be defiled / tainted" excuse, rather than to put aside their own preconceptions and view with an open mind and open heart to God.

As I said this is a very difficult thing to do. It can even work in the opposite way in that if we are for something that again can colour our hearing.

One sure fire way of knowing whether you heard or not (again no accusations). If you have to rely on past sins, false or misleading information and scaremongering to prove your "revelation" you can be assured it is NOT from God. Neither would it be if we ignored any concrete evidence of current misdeeds, blatant heresy etc. Unfortunatley we tend to do both far too quickly.

God bless

Simon

[probinson]

When you hear a healing testimony from someone who you agree with doctrinally, it your first reaction to doubt the veracity of that healing and to downplay it, or is your first reaction to rejoice with the person regarding their healing?
Did you mean to say agree, or disagree with doctrinally? (your thread title says "disagree", but your post here says "agree")

No matter. My reaction is to REJOICE!

[ARBITER01]

:thumbsup: That's good my friend. But just because it comes over a period of time is no guarantee it comes from God. Even this revelation needs to be tested by the word in an unbiased manner. If I already doubt something it is very hard not to put my own spin on what I hear. That is why we also have to also seek other witnesses who have seen and heard.

Some people (no accusations here) will sit back having seen something on the TV and denounce it without having gone and seen it for themselves. They use the "I don't want to be defiled / tainted" excuse, rather than to put aside their own preconceptions and view with an open mind and open heart to God.

As I said this is a very difficult thing to do. It can even work in the opposite way in that if we are for something that again can colour our hearing.

One sure fire way of knowing whether you heard or not (again no accusations). If you have to rely on past sins, false or misleading information and scaremongering to prove your "revelation" you can be assured it is NOT from God. Neither would it be if we ignored any concrete evidence of current misdeeds, blatant heresy etc. Unfortunatley we tend to do both far too quickly.

God bless

Simon


It is not a difficult thing to do for any Christian, it is just a matter of who they place as the pre-eminence in their life. If a Christian truly develops his/her relationship between them and GOD, insight like this is readily flowing all the time to them.

Do I want to be carried about with every wind of doctrine and teaching? Not at all, so I must learn to be reliant upon The Holy Spirit inside, and never accept anything other than what He reveals. It is a discipline among many in our Christian walk.

[CryoftheNation]

It is not a difficult thing to do for any Christian, it is just a matter of who they place as the pre-eminence in their life. If a Christian truly develops his/her relationship between them and GOD, insight like this is readily flowing all the time to them.

Do I want to be carried about with every wind of doctrine and teaching? No at all, so I must learn to be reliant upon The Holy Spirit inside, and never accept anything other than what He reveals. It is a discipline among many in our Christian walk.


Great! I agree.

One question.

How do you square it when like now, you meet someone who does just this and believes that what you say is of satan or man (Same thing in the end!), is actually of God?

For example, oh I don't know lets pick an easy one ;). Todd! You obviously have strong thoughts on the florida revival, so do I. We have both looked into it, both prayed about it, both have a deep relationship with the Holy Spirit yet have both come to different conclusions. What happens now?

God Bless

Simon

[BenAdam]

Great! I agree.

One question.

How do you square it when like now, you meet someone who does just this and believes that what you say is of satan or man (Same thing in the end!), is actually of God?

For example, oh I don't know lets pick an easy one ;). Todd! You obviously have strong thoughts on the florida revival, so do I. We have both looked into it, both prayed about it, both have a deep relationship with the Holy Spirit yet have both come to different conclusions. What happens now?

God Bless

Simon

Maybe both of you are right in different ways.

So you have thesis, antithesis, and then synthesis.

[CryoftheNation]

Maybe both of you are right in different ways.

So you have thesis, antithesis, and then synthesis.

I have an Aunty Sue, does that help? :P

[ARBITER01]

Great! I agree.

One question.

How do you square it when like now, you meet someone who does just this and believes that what you say is of satan or man (Same thing in the end!), is actually of God?

For example, oh I don't know lets pick an easy one ;). Todd! You obviously have strong thoughts on the florida revival, so do I. We have both looked into it, both prayed about it, both have a deep relationship with the Holy Spirit yet have both come to different conclusions. What happens now?

God Bless

Simon

Nothing happens. I'm more concerned about what GOD is teaching me and leading me to than anything else. I want to see GOD moving strongly in my church, I'm not worried about what others are doing.

That may sound somewhat flippant, but we each have our destiny in Christ to fulfill, and that won't happen with me if I'm overly concerned about others. I know what I needed to know about bentley and that is enough.

[CryoftheNation]

Nothing happens. I'm more concerned about what GOD is teaching me and leading me to than anything else. I want to see GOD moving strongly in my church, I'm not worried about what others are doing.

That may sound somewhat flippant, but we each have our destiny in Christ to fulfill, and that won't happen with me if I'm overly concerned about others. I know what I needed to know about bentley and that is enough.

So, with all due respect, why the flippant comments earlier about the kind of people who go to see these kinds of things?

Simon

[ARBITER01]

So, with all due respect, why the flippant comments earlier about the kind of people who go to see these kinds of things?

Simon

Why is this your concern?

[LeadWorship]

Healing is not a guaranteed act of GOD. Sorry,... but many folks think it is when it isn't.

It matters not what anyone says or does, it only matters what The Holy Spirit reveals as truth. I could have 10 thousand folks say they were healed at Bentley's circus, that doesn't mean anything, nor would I pronounce it of GOD when GOD HIMSELF is not telling me anything different inside.

We are to lean upon The Holy Spirit and what He reveals, not what we hear or see.


-50 DKP for having post #4 and not even answering the OP.

Carry on.

[LeadWorship]

Why is this your concern?

Perhaps he's one of those people? I dunno, just a shot in the dark.

[ARBITER01]

-50 DKP for having post #4 and not even answering the OP.

Carry on.

My dragon kill points shall remain.

Her post was an assumption trying to act as fact, I seen through it.

[ARBITER01]

Perhaps he's one of those people? I dunno, just a shot in the dark.

That's fine, but I'm not concerned about changing my points of view or my words to suit another.

[probinson]

Clairvoyance. Yet another undocumented gift of the Spirit.

:D

[ARBITER01]

Clairvoyance. Yet another undocumented gift of the Spirit.

:D

Incorrect weedhopper, it would be called perception, which is a part of spiritual discernment.

[Tamara224]

Clairvoyance. Yet another undocumented gift of the Spirit.

:D


What irony!

We're being told by WoFers in other threads that knowing the will of God is possible in every circumstance, that we shouldn't have to pray "if it be God's will" because we should know God's will. Yet when someone says that God reveals things to him...he get's mocked.

So which is it? Can we, or can we not hear from God personally? Does God reveal things to us or doesn't He?

[probinson]

What irony!

We're being told by WoFers in other threads that knowing the will of God is possible in every circumstance, that we shouldn't have to pray "if it be God's will" because we should know God's will. Yet when someone says that God reveals things to him...he get's mocked.

So which is it? Can we, or can we not hear from God personally? Does God reveal things to us or doesn't He?
Well, of course He does!

But the OP was a question and a simple question at that, not something that needed to be "spiritually discerned".

But you already knew that.

:cool:

[ARBITER01]

Well, of course He does!

But the OP was a question and a simple question at that, not something that needed to be "spiritually discerned".

But you already knew that.

:cool:

Anything is discernable Pete, in fact, we should be walking in a constant state of hearing GOD and listening to HIS voice.

[LeadWorship]

My dragon kill points shall remain.


Arbiter just one question: Did you know that or did you have to look it up? ;)

[ARBITER01]

Arbiter just one question: Did you know that or did you have to look it up? ;)

I used to play Everquest on the Tunare server as an enchanter. Played WoW also for a while, but didn't like it as much.

[LeadWorship]

haha good deal ;)

[Tamara224]

Well, of course He does!

But the OP was a question and a simple question at that, not something that needed to be "spiritually discerned".

But you already knew that.




Riiiight. And Dave's answer the question, as I understood it, was that the Holy Spirit will reveal to him when something is true or false.

And you decided to mock him for it by saying it was clarvoyance.

And I pointed out the irony.

But you already knew that.

[rcorley]

First...to answer the OP:
If the person is healed and God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is getting the glory, what is the point of trying to understand "where the healing came from" or "who did the healing"?

It would be like the blind man that Jesus healed in John chapter 9 - standing in front of the Pharisees after being instructed to "Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner" - saying "Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see."

I'll just say it. Whether TB is a sinner or not I do not know (I HIGHLY doubt it), but the people seem to be getting healed. PRAISE GOD! God is getting the glory. PRAISE GOD! The church seems to be stirring. PRAISE GOD!

Honestly, if TB is not of God and he is doing this for his own personal gain, he will answer to God. BUT...if he is of God, then who am I to condemn him. And if a person claims to be blind and now healed, it's his responsibility to be truthful. He answers to God.

But...if this is truly a move of God, I don't want to be the person who, like the Pharisees, said, "This Man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath." or "How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?" (John 9:16)

BTW...the real irony in all of this is: Here we are - "debating" whether or not this is a move of God and that the healings are real - and thousands of people are going to Hell - right now. If someone happens to come across GTV and sees what's happening there and thinks to himself, "Hmm...maybe this Jesus stuff is real." Then he gives his life to Christ...wow...what a concept.

[CryoftheNation]

Why is this your concern?

I'm just curious. Trying to get a handle on why people are so "anti Todd" / "anti revival" etc and why they seem to think anyone attending these things is spiritually immature or deceived.

God bless

Simon

[rcorley]

I'm just curious. Trying to get a handle on why people are so "anti Todd" / "anti revival" etc and why they seem to think anyone attending these things is spiritually immature or deceived.


I know that when I first saw him, I was very skeptical. But after watching him and seeing the interviews on different news channels, I felt a spanking from the Lord. Everytime someone asked about him or tried to credit him with what is happening in Lakeland, he pointed back to God. I may not like his method, but it does seem to be fruitful.

[probinson]

Riiiight. And Dave's answer the question, as I understood it, was that the Holy Spirit will reveal to him when something is true or false.

And you decided to mock him for it by saying it was clarvoyance.

And I pointed out the irony.

But you already knew that.
Dave answered the question?

Where?

I saw him say healing was not guaranteed, and then he brought up the Bentley "circus" (again), and said that even if 10 thousand people are healed, it doesn't mean it's of God, but nowhere did he actually answer the question in the OP.

And then I saw you misspell "clairvoyance". :P

But other than that, I didn't really see an answer to the question.

[ARBITER01]

I'm just curious. Trying to get a handle on why people are so "anti Todd" / "anti revival" etc and why they seem to think anyone attending these things is spiritually immature or deceived.

God bless

Simon

I go off of what The Holy Spirit reveals to me, and also what He has revealed to me in the past through experiences, there is nothing more for me to explain.

[CryoftheNation]

I know that when I first saw him, I was very skeptical. But after watching him and seeing the interviews on different news channels, I felt a spanking from the Lord. Everytime someone asked about him or tried to credit him with what is happening in Lakeland, he pointed back to God. I may not like his method, but it does seem to be fruitful.

Thank you for your honesty my friend!

God bless

Simon

[CryoftheNation]

I go off of what The Holy Spirit reveals to me, and also what He has revealed to me in the past through experiences, there is nothing more for me to explain.

Fair enough but why the need to denegrate anyone who disagrees? This is what I find difficult to understand. You may not agree with it, but there's no need to make disparaging comments about the people who do.

Sorry to pick on you, but you were the only one around at the time! ;)

It's not you in particular its anyone who does this, so feel free to answer folks.:wave:

God bless

Simon

[ARBITER01]

Fair enough but why the need to denegrate anyone who disagrees? This is what I find difficult to understand. You may not agree with it, but there's no need to make disparaging comments about the people who do.

Sorry to pick on you, but you were the only one around at the time! ;)

It's not you in particular its anyone who does this, so feel free to answer folks.:wave:

God bless

Simon

Personally, there is no such thing listed in our bible called a revival, so those people who chase after non-biblical things are quite immature as believers.

Jesus is more concerned with believers becoming Sons instead of remaining children for 30 or more years. This is the standard that Jesus gave,..


John 14:12 ¶ (NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.


Each of us is to attain to that standard, no believer is left out of it, so when I see people running around and chasing after others instead of being focused on GOD and our sanctification here,....it becomes disgusting to me.

GOD see these things also, and make decisions and judgements.

[ARBITER01]

Dave answered the question?

Where?

I saw him say healing was not guaranteed, and then he brought up the Bentley "circus" (again), and said that even if 10 thousand people are healed, it doesn't mean it's of God, but nowhere did he actually answer the question in the OP.

And then I saw you misspell "clairvoyance". :P

But other than that, I didn't really see an answer to the question.

My answer was my answer. She posted a misconception that healing automatically validates the action as from GOD,... and that is completely false, ask anyone who has been entrenched in witchcraft and voodoo, there is healing there also.

[CryoftheNation]

Personally, there is no such thing listed in our bible called a revival, so those people who chase after non-biblical things are quite immature as believers.

You are making some awfuly big assumptions there my friend. BTW. Last night Bobby Connors was preaching. He actually said, this is not a revival! What it is is God digging out wells so that He can set His people on fire and burn across the world. It is a time of preparation, a time of drawing closer to God. A time of building your relationship with God.

Jesus is more concerned with believers becoming Sons instead of remaining children for 30 or more years. This is the standard that Jesus gave,..

John 14:12 ¶ (NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Great so I guess you're out there healing the sick, cleansing the lepper, and raising the dead then? I presume the church you pastor is the largest in the US most spirit filled and reaching out into the community in every area, working in the miraculous to show Gods power? :D



Each of us is to attain to that standard, no believer is left out of it, so when I see people running around and chasing after others instead of being focused on GOD and our sanctification here,....it becomes disgusting to me.

GOD see these things also, and make decisions and judgements.

You may see that, doesn't mean its actually happening.

I'm (as an example) not doing that. I am running after God, Chasing HIM. Saying that I will do what ever it takes to seek Him and Glorify Him. It's nothing at all to do with chasing miracles of signs, its all about God.

You are making some rather sweeping statements about people you have no knowledge of, except your own personal revelation of course and that cannot possibly be wrong can it? :P

Just because you feel it is wrong, doesn't give you the right to insult everyone who disagrees with you. In fact what it does is make you look immature and petty.

I want to understand I really do. I want to respect people who differ in oppinion to me. We are all part of the same family. But when we resort to these tactics it just doesn't help. I really can't understand how you can lump so many different people into one all encompasing category. Especially when it involves people who have such amazing ministries themselves.

God bless

Simon

[ARBITER01]

You are making some awfuly big assumptions there my friend. BTW. Last night Bobby Connors was preaching. He actually said, this is not a revival! What it is is God digging out wells so that He can set His people on fire and burn across the world. It is a time of preparation, a time of drawing closer to God. A time of building your relationship with God.



John 14:12 ¶ (NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Great so I guess you're out there healing the sick, cleansing the lepper, and raising the dead then? I presume the church you pastor is the largest in the US most spirit filled and reaching out into the community in every area, working in the miraculous to show Gods power? :D




You may see that, doesn't mean its actually happening.

I'm (as an example) not doing that. I am running after God, Chasing HIM. Saying that I will do what ever it takes to seek Him and Glorify Him. It's nothing at all to do with chasing miracles of signs, its all about God.

You are making some rather sweeping statements about people you have no knowledge of, except your own personal revelation of course and that cannot possibly be wrong can it? :P

Just because you feel it is wrong, doesn't give you the right to insult everyone who disagrees with you. In fact what it does is make you look immature and petty.

I want to understand I really do. I want to respect people who differ in oppinion to me. We are all part of the same family. But when we resort to these tactics it just doesn't help. I really can't understand how you can lump so many different people into one all encompasing category. Especially when it involves people who have such amazing ministries themselves.

God bless

Simon

The truth is only insulting to those that feel convicted by it. If the truth hurts, then there is something wrong.

BTW, I am out healing people now in my small church I attend. I won't be pastoring a church since I'm not called to a leadership position. I'm not taking on responsibilities that GOD has not placed in my spirit to do.

GOD shall increase things as HE pleases, and I fully look for HIM to start leading me to unbelievers for their healing quite soon.

As far as amazing ministries,... if they don't have the credentials of the works of Jesus, they are not amazing.

[CryoftheNation]

The truth is only insulting to those that feel convicted by it. If the truth hurts, then there is something wrong.

Nah, the truth doesn't need to be insulting. If we need to insult then we don't have the truth.

BTW, I am out healing people now in my small church I attend. I won't be pastoring a church since I'm not called to a leadership position. I'm not taking on responsibilities that GOD has not placed in my spirit to do.

Thats great my friend I hope God blesses your ministry.

GOD shall increase things as HE pleases, and I fully look for HIM to start leading me to unbelievers for their healing quite soon.

As far as amazing ministries,... if they don't have the credentials of the works of Jesus, they are not amazing.

How do you know they don't?

God bless

Simon

[rcorley]

Reminder:
People dying....going to hell...we're arguing about whether or not we should rejoice if a person gets healed...people dying...going to hell....we're arguing.

Oh wait...we don't have to argue. We could agree that God can move in ways I might not understand or feel comfortable with. Seems the disciples brought up something like this (Luke 9:49,50):
v. 49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
v.50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
We need to work together more instead of quibbling over these things.

[CryoftheNation]

Anyway back on topic. We really should just rejoice with them!

God bless

Simon

[CryoftheNation]

Reminder:
People dying....going to hell...we're arguing about whether or not we should rejoice if a person gets healed...people dying...going to hell....we're arguing.

Oh wait...we don't have to argue. We could agree that God can move in ways I might not understand or feel comfortable with. Seems the disciples brought up something like this (Luke 9:49,50):v. 49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
v.50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
We need to work together more instead of quibbling over these things.

Amen,

Good post!

[ARBITER01]

How do you know they don't?

God bless

Simon

Well if each ministry was walking in the realm of faith that Jesus walked in, people would not feel the need to head to lakeland or some place else.

[CryoftheNation]

Well if each ministry was walking in the realm of faith that Jesus walked in, people would not feel the need to head to lakeland or some place else.

And maybe they see something of God that they want to be a part of, to bring back to their Church, to enhace what is being done in Jesus name, to bring Glory to God.

God bless

Simon

[probinson]

She posted a misconception that healing automatically validates the action as from GOD,...
She did? Where? This is what she said;

When you hear a healing testimony from someone who you agree with doctrinally, it your first reaction to doubt the veracity of that healing and to downplay it, or is your first reaction to rejoice with the person regarding their healing?
There's nothing there about healing automatically validating anything.

It's an incredibly simple question. When someone posts, "God healed me", how do you respond?

Me? I rejoice with them.

[ARBITER01]

Reminder:
People dying....going to hell...we're arguing about whether or not we should rejoice if a person gets healed...people dying...going to hell....we're arguing.

Oh wait...we don't have to argue. We could agree that God can move in ways I might not understand or feel comfortable with. Seems the disciples brought up something like this (Luke 9:49,50):
v. 49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
v.50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
We need to work together more instead of quibbling over these things.


Who's burden is the salvation of man?

[ARBITER01]

And maybe they see something of God that they want to be a part of, to bring back to their Church, to enhace what is being done in Jesus name, to bring Glory to God.

God bless

Simon

Hmmm,... well we have a couple that attends our church at times, who spend more time at lakeland than is normal. They tried to bring back the angel teachings form there and felt the need to lay hands on everyone also when they got back, it didn't go over that well.

Everything out of their mouth was "angel this and miracle that." "We have to pray for more miracles!"

They completely forget that GOD does nothing outside of HIS people, so praying for miracles is a backwards prayer if GOD has no one sanctified to work through for them.

I won't prolong the subject with you any longer. If you wish to associate yourself with lakeland and that circus, be my guest, but you shouldn't be that upset if other people refuse it and laugh at it.

[ARBITER01]

She did? Where? This is what she said;

There's nothing there about healing automatically validating anything.

It's an incredibly simple question. When someone posts, "God healed me", how do you respond?

Me? I rejoice with them.

Pete, what is a healing testimony from someone?

[probinson]

Pete, what is a healing testimony from someone?
Is this like the question, who's buried in Grant's tomb?

Um, a healing testimony, is a testimony of healing.

:cool:

[ARBITER01]

Is this like the question, who's buried in Grant's tomb?

Um, a healing testimony, is a testimony of healing.

:cool:


When a person gives a healing testimony, who do they give the praise to?

[probinson]

When a person gives a healing testimony, who do they give the praise to?
God.

:doh:

[CryoftheNation]

Hmmm,... well we have a couple that attends our church at times, who spend more time at lakeland than is normal. They tried to bring back the angel teachings form there and felt the need to lay hands on everyone also when they got back, it didn't go over that well.

Everything out of their mouth was "angel this and miracle that." "We have to pray for more miracles!"

They completely forget that GOD does nothing outside of HIS people, so praying for miracles is a backwards prayer if GOD has no one sanctified to work through for them.

I won't prolong the subject with you any longer. If you wish to associate yourself with lakeland and that circus, be my guest, but you shouldn't be that upset if other people refuse it and laugh at it.

Not exactly an attitude overflowing with love now is it my friend.

Actually we do need more miracles in the church. We do need to reengage with the supernatural. It's part of our calling as a church.

But we'll have to agree to disagree in this my friend. Please, though, try and be a little more charitable to people with whom you disagree.

God bless

Simon

[ARBITER01]

God.

:doh:

Right,.... so is every healing automatically from GOD and we give HIM the praise for it during church?

[probinson]

Right,.... so is every healing automatically from GOD and we give HIM the praise for it during church?
Nevermind.

:cool:

[ARBITER01]

Not exactly an attitude overflowing with love now is it my friend.

Actually we do need more miracles in the church. We do need to reengage with the supernatural. It's part of our calling as a church.

But we'll have to agree to disagree in this my friend. Please, though, try and be a little more charitable to people with whom you disagree.

God bless

Simon

No, it is an attitude of self control.

Miracles will come about with sanctification. You want more of them in your church, seek sanctification with GOD, that way GOD can move through you, there is no other way GOD will work.

I'm going to call things they way they are, if that makes you upset, then that remains your problem. I don't try to paint something to be pretty when it is not. You're more than welcome to spend your time in lakeland and other places like toronoto. You can bark and cluck just as much as you wish. As for me, I would rather follow The Holy Spirit in things and experience much greater aspects of GOD's power than anyone at Lakeland remotely knows about yet.

I don't consider you my enemy at all, but don't expect me to be nice about your wrong choices.

[CryoftheNation]

No, it is an attitude of self control.

Miracles will come about with sanctification. You want more of them in your church, seek sanctification with GOD, that way GOD can move through you, there is no other way GOD will work.

I'm going to call things they way they are, if that makes you upset, then that remains your problem. I don't try to paint something to be pretty when it is not. You're more than welcome to spend your time in lakeland and other places like toronoto. You can bark and cluck just as much as you wish. As for me, I would rather follow The Holy Spirit in things and experience much greater aspects of GOD's power than anyone at Lakeland remotely knows about yet.

I don't consider you my enemy at all, but don't expect me to be nice about your wrong choices.

Now you see that is the problem. I find it hard to understand how you can claim "truth from God" when you have no appearence of Love. Correct, by all means, challenge with pleasure. You don't need to be smug, self satisfied and arrogant with it.

Sorry, just calling it like it is! ;)

[ARBITER01]

Now you see that is the problem. I find it hard to understand how you can claim "truth from God" when you have no appearence of Love. Correct, by all means, challenge with pleasure. You don't need to be smug, self satisfied and arrogant with it.

Sorry, just calling it like it is! ;)


That's fine, I don't have any problem with that.

I try my hardest to not take people serious on the internet, so unless The Holy Spirit witnesses what you or another says as truth to my spirit, I don't allow it to have that place.

[JimfromOhio]

As a believer, I rejoice in God in ALL things. I realize that the gift of healing is a very controversial subject. There is much concern because the number one human problem in the world is illness. I want to be understood as being said in my posts in a spirit of gentleness, in a spirit of love, and in a spirit of concern for people who have not understood the truth about the area of healing (from my perspective). I do believe God heals. God heals in answer to prayer. God heals miraculously in answer to prayer.

I do not question God's miraculous healing in response to the prayers of saints. What I want you to understand is the difference between the healing by God and the healing doctrines of man (i.e. WOF).

[ARBITER01]

As a believer, I rejoice in God in ALL things. I realize that the gift of healing is a very controversial subject. There is much concern because the number one human problem in the world is illness. I want to be understood as being said in my posts in a spirit of gentleness, in a spirit of love, and in a spirit of concern for people who have not understood the truth about the area of healing (from my perspective). I do believe God heals. God heals in answer to prayer. God heals miraculously in answer to prayer.

I do not question God's miraculous healing in response to the prayers of saints. What I want you to understand is the difference between the healing by God and the healing doctrines of man (i.e. WOF).


Currently, the problem I see with the WOF method, is not the understanding that GOD heals, but the means taught.

The method I see promulgated by several individuals is the idea that if we get enough people together praising GOD, that somehow over a period of time HE will begin healing somehow. That method is absolutely bogus and unbiblical, yet that is what people are being taught at these conferences and such.

Jesus walked outside of 4 walls and did more healing there than inside a synagogue. There is no documented time that GOD did anything through Jesus outside of the gifts of The Spirit, so they are an absolute must, whether it is inside a church or outside.

People are quick to follow someone else, so the bogus teaching prevails until someone corrects it with example.

[charityagape]

Did you mean to say agree, or disagree with doctrinally? (your thread title says "disagree", but your post here says "agree")

No matter. My reaction is to REJOICE!

Well opps. I meant disagree on both counts. Wow, lot more posts than I expected. It'll take me a while to read them.

[charityagape]

Reminder:
People dying....going to hell...we're arguing about whether or not we should rejoice if a person gets healed...people dying...going to hell....we're arguing.

Oh wait...we don't have to argue. We could agree that God can move in ways I might not understand or feel comfortable with. Seems the disciples brought up something like this (Luke 9:49,50):v. 49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
v.50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
We need to work together more instead of quibbling over these things.

Great post!

This thread sprung out of control (although in an interesting way), simply do you rejoice when someone is healed (and medically verified or whatever you need to believe they ARE healed) or do you check their theology first?

Edit to add: Healed and giving God glory, not healed and claiming wicca or some junk.

[CryoftheNation]

Sorry, didn't mean to side track it!

[GreatistheLord]

Currently, the problem I see with the WOF method, is not the understanding that GOD heals, but the means taught.

The method I see promulgated by several individuals is the idea that if we get enough people together praising GOD, that somehow over a period of time HE will begin healing somehow. That method is absolutely bogus and unbiblical, yet that is what people are being taught at these conferences and such.

Jesus walked outside of 4 walls and did more healing there than inside a synagogue. There is no documented time that GOD did anything through Jesus outside of the gifts of The Spirit, so they are an absolute must, whether it is inside a church or outside.

People are quick to follow someone else, so the bogus teaching prevails until someone corrects it with example.

God does heal through faith, (Jas 5:15), and unfortunately, the lack of faith, and a scepticism of miracles in the Western church is ingrained and rife.
It is very unfortunate that we have to spend so long in meetings in worship, and to hear anecdotes about other miracles, just so that we can *start* to really believe. This is not a method, it is a sad state of affairs. God is gracious, and will move when He sees faith in the church.
Dont make the mistake of calling it a "method" and heretical.

[CryoftheNation]

God does heal through faith, (Jas 5:15), and unfortunately, the lack of faith, and a scepticism of miracles in the Western church is ingrained and rife.
It is very unfortunate that we have to spend so long in meetings in worship, and to hear anecdotes about other miracles, just so that we can *start* to really believe. This is not a method, it is a sad state of affairs. God is gracious, and will move when He sees faith in the church.
Dont make the mistake of calling it a "method" and heretical.

Great post my friend.

The problem with the last statement is simply that If people don't do this then they have to respond to the challenge, that makes it very uncomfortable.

God bless

Simon

[GreatistheLord]

Great post my friend.

The problem with the last statement is simply that If people don't do this then they have to respond to the challenge, that makes it very uncomfortable.

God bless

Simon

I'm not sure I understand you Simon.

[CryoftheNation]

I'm not sure I understand you Simon.

Yeah, It was a bit messed up wasn't it.

What I meant was, the only way some people can deal with this is to denounce it. It makes them uncomfortable. But they don't want to be seen as only being against it because of fear. They have to make themselves out as hyper spiritual and guided by the spirit. The only problem with that is that they come up against other people who are also guided by the spirit and who believe that God is at work in something like this. This causes a dilema. Do they admit that they may be wrong, and admit to their fear? Or do they deride that person and claim that they are "deluded" "lost" and make rude and false statements about them and the so called "move of God".

I think that's what I meant.;)

God bless

Simon

[ARBITER01]

God does heal through faith, (Jas 5:15), and unfortunately, the lack of faith, and a scepticism of miracles in the Western church is ingrained and rife.
It is very unfortunate that we have to spend so long in meetings in worship, and to hear anecdotes about other miracles, just so that we can *start* to really believe. This is not a method, it is a sad state of affairs. God is gracious, and will move when He sees faith in the church.
Dont make the mistake of calling it a "method" and heretical.

You are sort of reiterating the same problem I stated.

For instance,... Jesus followed The Holy Spirit where He was led by Him. The Holy Spirit did not suddenly move ahead of Jesus and began healing in some other country without Jesus,.. He stayed with Jesus and did the healing there through Him.

It's the same with any church. If there is not a righteous sanctified individual there that The Holy Spirit can move through with the power gifts to accomplish what He desires, than He will not move no matter how much praise is given.

The praise method is the one I see being taught, and it simply doesn't work.

[GreatistheLord]

You are sort of reiterating the same problem I stated.

For instance,... Jesus followed The Holy Spirit where He was led by Him. The Holy Spirit did not suddenly move ahead of Jesus and began healing in some other country without Jesus,.. He stayed with Jesus and did the healing there through Him.

It's the same with any church. If there is not a righteous sanctified individual there that The Holy Spirit can move through with the power gifts to accomplish what He desires, than He will not move no matter how much praise is given.

The praise method is the one I see being taught, and it simply doesn't work.

I would say that God inhabits the praises of His people, when we move into true spiritual worship, God can impart faith/healing/power because we are no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit.

Who, can I ask you, is teaching this as a "method" ?

[ARBITER01]

I would say that God inhabits the praises of His people, when we move into true spiritual worship, God can impart faith/healing/power because we are no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit.

Who, can I ask you, is teaching this as a "method" ?

That's nice to say, but there is nothing in the bible about that. Some of the greatest people that moved in the gifts of The Spirit, such as Wigglesworth, still had to lay hands on people for their healing. Why? Because that is what Jesus taught and did.

GOD does inhabit the praises of HIS people, but,... the gifts were given for a reason, and HE does nothing outside of them. Period. Cessaionalists would love to say that GOD is moving outside of the gifts and that they are no longer needed in the church, but that is not the case.

[GreatistheLord]

That's nice to say, but there is nothing in the bible about that. Some of the greatest people that moved in the gifts of The Spirit, such as Wigglesworth, still had to lay hands on people for their healing. Why? Because that is what Jesus taught and did.

GOD does inhabit the praises of HIS people, but,... the gifts were given for a reason, and HE does nothing outside of them. Period. Cessaionalists would love to say that GOD is moving outside of the gifts and that they are no longer needed in the church, but that is not the case.

You'll have to back that up. The Holy Spirit moved in Acts 2 before any gifts where given.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Where are the gifts there?

[GreatistheLord]

That's nice to say, but there is nothing in the bible about that. Some of the greatest people that moved in the gifts of The Spirit, such as Wigglesworth, still had to lay hands on people for their healing. Why? Because that is what Jesus taught and did.

GOD does inhabit the praises of HIS people, but,... the gifts were given for a reason, and HE does nothing outside of them. Period. Cessaionalists would love to say that GOD is moving outside of the gifts and that they are no longer needed in the church, but that is not the case.

Jesus never punched anyone, or kicked anyone. SW did.

[ARBITER01]

You'll have to back that up. The Holy Spirit moved in Acts 2 before any gifts where given.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Where are the gifts there?

Sure, The Holy Spirit moved in acts before any gifts were given,.... but was anyone healed before He entered the disciples there? Was any word given during that move? Was that a worthy comparison here?

You need to check the scripture you posted, is that really in reference to healing like we have been talking about?

[JimfromOhio]

You'll have to back that up. The Holy Spirit moved in Acts 2 before any gifts where given.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Where are the gifts there?

Is this talking about "Resurrection" that all Christians will recieve one day?

[ARBITER01]

Jesus never punched anyone, or kicked anyone. SW did.

And you are exactly right, but there were times that he didn't also. I would never justify the hitting and kicking out of wigglesworth (or anyone else), as Jesus never gave that example for us to follow, but GOD was moving through wigglesworth in a healing ministry. It is a documented thing.

[ARBITER01]

Is this talking about "Resurrection" that all Christians will recieve one day?

I think so Jim, that is why I didn't consider that section of scripture as part of what we were talking about.

[GreatistheLord]

Is this talking about "Resurrection" that all Christians will recieve one day?

Personally, I believe it is talking about now. The spirit is in us now.

[JimfromOhio]

Personally, I believe it is talking about now. The spirit is in us now.
But, but, but, but.... our bodies are decaying and will die ONE DAY. We live in a body that is decaying and dying which is temporal. If our bodies are decaying as Paul said, where does it say we are physically whole while our bodies are slowly dying?

The healing of the atonement will bring about our resurrection in glory, where there will be no pain or suffering (Rev. 21:1-4; 22:1-3).

"My temorary body is decaying at the same time, my inner being is being renewed day by day" (2 Cor 4:16).

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Galatians 5:25). Which means we don't walk in flesh even though we live in a tent called flesh.

[GreatistheLord]

Maybe we should distinguish between our body decaying, due to old age, which is a natural process that occured as much to Jesus as to Judas.

There is also the curse which brings sickness and disease to us. We are free from the curse without necessarily being free from natural decay. (i.e. the disciple that Jesus loved, Moses).

[JimfromOhio]

Maybe we should distinguish between our body decaying, due to old age, which is a natural process that occured as much to Jesus as to Judas.

There is also the curse which brings sickness and disease to us. We are free from the curse without necessarily being free from natural decay. (i.e. the disciple that Jesus loved, Moses).
Maybe as an assumption?

Sin is THE CURSE and by THAT CURSE, we will die (physically) one day. In God's grace through Jesus Christ, I am free from bondage of sin. I won't be free from sin but I AM free from bondage of sin. We will never be SINLESS but we can be filled. The Greek word for "dwells" is okv (oike), which means "I inhabit." The Holy Spirit is the only person that can quicken people to be saved. Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. Without Christ through the Holy Spirit... we ARE NOTHING except worthy of going through the WIDE GATE of hell.

I am sure you have NO definite answers from God of how and why people get sick, suffer and die. The bible CLEARLY explains why and how. Its just that some don't want to believe them based on man's doctrines.

[BenAdam]

Maybe we should distinguish between our body decaying, due to old age, which is a natural process that occured as much to Jesus as to Judas.

There is also the curse which brings sickness and disease to us. We are free from the curse without necessarily being free from natural decay. (i.e. the disciple that Jesus loved, Moses).

You think Jesus would have died of old age had He not been crucified?

[LeadWorship]

Good question. I think, had he not been crucified, that he would have been "taken up". The Tree of Life is not available to our flesh since the Garden of Eden. So, had he not been crucified, or martyred another way, or taken up, he probably would have died of old age.

Never thought about it before.

[CryoftheNation]

You think Jesus would have died of old age had He not been crucified?

Considering the Bible says that he was fully God AND fully human, and since His body had followed the natural course up until that point, then I would suggest that in this, extremely hyperthetical case, yes. Had Jesus not been crucified then he may well have died of old age.

But he did die on the cross so we'll never know. :D

[GreatistheLord]

You think Jesus would have died of old age had He not been crucified?

No, he would never have died. He is the resurrection, but he certainly looked older as time passed. Noone called him "baby-face" Jesus. :)

[GreatistheLord]

What about Moses, God had to kill him to make him die. The disciple that Jesus loved was to stay alive until Jesus returns.

[GreatistheLord]

Maybe as an assumption?

Sin is THE CURSE and by THAT CURSE, we will die (physically) one day. In God's grace through Jesus Christ, I am free from bondage of sin. I won't be free from sin but I AM free from bondage of sin. We will never be SINLESS but we can be filled. The Greek word for "dwells" is okv (oike), which means "I inhabit." The Holy Spirit is the only person that can quicken people to be saved. Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. Without Christ through the Holy Spirit... we ARE NOTHING except worthy of going through the WIDE GATE of hell.

I am sure you have NO definite answers from God of how and why people get sick, suffer and die. The bible CLEARLY explains why and how. Its just that some don't want to believe them based on man's doctrines.

We all have a time to die, God *does not* need the help of the curse to make this happen.

[JimfromOhio]

What about Moses, God had to kill him to make him die. The disciple that Jesus loved was to stay alive until Jesus returns.

Are you that disciple who will stay alive until Christ return? :D

[JimfromOhio]

We all have a time to die, God *does not* need the help of the curse to make this happen.
One of the greatest and most essential attributes of God is His sovereignty; God rules over all things and controls all things. God also uses providence to accomplish His will in the world. You won't find the word providence in the Bible. It's like the word Trinity. God directs and uses events to accomplish His own Will which meant: "the providence of God." Romans 8:28 says, "We know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

Ecclesiastes 3:2: "a time to be born and a time to die".

Psalm 103:14 "for He knows how we are formed, He remembers that we are dust."

Psalm 79:11 Let the groaning of the prisoner come before You; According to the greatness of Your power Preserve those who are appointed to die.

[probinson]

One of the greatest and most essential attributes of God is His sovereignty;
This is where the core of our differences is.

Not healing. Not grace. Not wealth. Not prosperity. Not suffering.

This is the driving force behind every disagreement we have...

GOD IS LOVE.

Love. Love is the greatest and most essential attribute of God. God IS Love (as defined in 1 Corinthians 13).

[JimfromOhio]

This is where the core of our differences is.

Not healing. Not grace. Not wealth. Not prosperity. Not suffering.

This is the driving force behind every disagreement we have...

GOD IS LOVE.

Love. Love is the greatest and most essential attribute of God. God IS Love (as defined in 1 Corinthians 13).
Yes.. God is love. However, to take it in "context", we are to look the WHOLE Bible. God is good and God is also Just. The Bible teaches that God is love; some have interpreted this in such a way as virtually to deny that He is just, which the Bible also teaches. The biblical doctrine of God's goodness so far that it is made to contradict His holiness. The biblical doctrine of God's compassion cancel out His truth. People will view God is ALL good, which is true but the definition of "good" in God's point of view is different than our human point of view.

[probinson]

Yes.. God is love. However, to take it in "context", we are to look the WHOLE Bible. God is good and God is also Just. The Bible teaches that God is love; some have interpreted this in such a way as virtually to deny that He is just, which the Bible also teaches. The biblical doctrine of God's goodness so far that it is made to contradict His holiness. The biblical doctrine of God's compassion cancel out His truth. People will view God is ALL good, which is true but the definition of "good" in God's point of view is different than our human point of view.
Nothing about God is contradictory. But until we realize that God IS Love, we'll continue to have these differences.

Love is not just something God does. It's who He is.

It's also who He wants us to be.

[CryoftheNation]

What about Moses, God had to kill him to make him die. The disciple that Jesus loved was to stay alive until Jesus returns.

Not quite.

Joh 21:21 When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"
Joh 21:22 Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."
Joh 21:23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"

Jesus never said John would live any longer than anyone else.

God bless

Simon

[JimfromOhio]

Nothing about God is contradictory. But until we realize that God IS Love, we'll continue to have these differences.

Love is not just something God does. It's who He is.

It's also who He wants us to be.
Ah.... God's Character. Who He is. He is our Creator, He is our Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is Sovereign. Faith is actually based on God's Character, not His Promises. The more we know God's character and attributes, the more we trust His Word. The Word of God is His testimony because it is His own witness to His nature, attributes, and actions that emphasizes both the authority of their source in the LORD. God is absolutely powerful, that God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, that God is immutable, never changes, that God is all wise, perfectly just, holy, righteous. God is causing all things to work together for our good, which means our eternal glory because we love God because He first loved us and purposed to bring us to His Great Glory.

Every promise of God is secured by His character. The Bible is clear that God is a God of love. Because God loves, He also hates. For example, if you love someone, you hate whatever it is that would harm that person. If you're a parent, you hate anything that would harm your children. That is a good indication of what God's grace is like. Out of love He convicted us and gave us righteous equality with Jesus Christ, "[God] hath made [Christ], who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Cor. 5:21).

The concept of "love" is really tricky especially when it comes with what the "world offers". "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away." (1st John 2:15-17)

Faith is when you cannot answer a skeptic but be content to wait for more light while at the same time never forsake a great principle of God's Character. Faith rests not primarily upon God's promises but rather on God's Character. Spiritual faith keeps our hearts open to whatever is of God, and rejects everything that is NOT of God, not matter how wonderful they offer to us in temporal sense. Is there a question about God's character or His power in our lives?

God wants us to be Spirit-filled that God's loving desire that we should reflect His own holiness and goodness, NOT our own goodness.

[rcorley]

John to Peter, "Hey Peter, we just walked past this guy and now he's claiming to be healed. What should we do?"
Peter to John, "But how do we know that he is healed? Quick...get a doctor to confirm his lameness; we need medical proof. And get a rabbi to test his beliefs; nothing worse than someone getting healed and embarrassing us."
John to Peter, "But Peter, now he's jumping up and down saying God healed him."
Peter to John, "Quick...give him some silver and gold to shut him up. This might start some revival and get us in trouble with the Pharisees."

Oh...wait...it didn't happen that way. Silly me.

Seriously - I'm using humor to point out the weirdness of this debate. The formula seems obvious to me. Walk in the power of the Holy Spirit; gifts of the Holy Spirit begin to flow; people get healed and set free; they give Glory to God; people around them see the miracle; people give glory to God; God is happy; Jesus is happy; Holy Spirit is smiling. Maybe I'm just simple. Let's just go out and do this and come back to discuss what happened.

[GreatistheLord]

Not quite.

Joh 21:21 When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"
Joh 21:22 Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."
Joh 21:23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"

Jesus never said John would live any longer than anyone else.

God bless

Simon

Neither did I???? I pretty much quoted Jesus.

[charityagape]

John to Peter, "Hey Peter, we just walked past this guy and now he's claiming to be healed. What should we do?"
Peter to John, "But how do we know that he is healed? Quick...get a doctor to confirm his lameness; we need medical proof. And get a rabbi to test his beliefs; nothing worse than someone getting healed and embarrassing us."
John to Peter, "But Peter, now he's jumping up and down saying God healed him."
Peter to John, "Quick...give him some silver and gold to shut him up. This might start some revival and get us in trouble with the Pharisees."

Oh...wait...it didn't happen that way. Silly me.

Seriously - I'm using humor to point out the weirdness of this debate. The formula seems obvious to me. Walk in the power of the Holy Spirit; gifts of the Holy Spirit begin to flow; people get healed and set free; they give Glory to God; people around them see the miracle; people give glory to God; God is happy; Jesus is happy; Holy Spirit is smiling. Maybe I'm just simple. Let's just go out and do this and come back to discuss what happened.

Well there's a good idea. Simple. I like it.

[GreatistheLord]

John to Peter, "Hey Peter, we just walked past this guy and now he's claiming to be healed. What should we do?"
Peter to John, "But how do we know that he is healed? Quick...get a doctor to confirm his lameness; we need medical proof. And get a rabbi to test his beliefs; nothing worse than someone getting healed and embarrassing us."
John to Peter, "But Peter, now he's jumping up and down saying God healed him."
Peter to John, "Quick...give him some silver and gold to shut him up. This might start some revival and get us in trouble with the Pharisees."

Oh...wait...it didn't happen that way. Silly me.

Seriously - I'm using humor to point out the weirdness of this debate. The formula seems obvious to me. Walk in the power of the Holy Spirit; gifts of the Holy Spirit begin to flow; people get healed and set free; they give Glory to God; people around them see the miracle; people give glory to God; God is happy; Jesus is happy; Holy Spirit is smiling. Maybe I'm just simple. Let's just go out and do this and come back to discuss what happened.

You're right. Let's do this, instead of endlessly debating. Do you think one of God's works prepared beforehand is a great thread or comeback in ChristianForums?