Losing faith in Orthodoxy

[Komnenos]

Hello all, lately, it seems I am losing faith with Orthodoxy. I mean all of the political divisions and nationalistic attitudes (the other day a women @ my church said you had to be Greek to be Orthodox) etc. Some of what the local protestant ministers are saying about Orthodoxy's beliefs makes sense to me, I'm ashamed to admit it. Please pray for my guidance.

Komnenos.

[Dorothea]

:crosseo: Don't be distracted or persuaded by those who seek to show Orthodoxy to be wrong. Satan would love for that to happen to the Orthodox faithful. All this political stuff has been going on from the stat because there are humans in the churches, and only humans, so therefore, there will be much confusion and such. Heretics in the past, probably some in the future. Then, you have all the otherChristian churches in this world who only hold partial truths. So, I would think it best to cling to the Church that still holds the Truth, no matter what human in any high position does. The Holy Spirit guides the Church. There's a few books that might help you. The book on St. Nektarios. All the hurt and betrayal he went through within his own Church through top Metropolitans and patriarchs. Unfortunately, the human sin of jealousy comes into play a lot. Also, you might want to read "Ultimate Things." It talks a lot about the Church in the last days. HTH.

[NHB_MMA]

Hello all, lately, it seems I am losing faith with Orthodoxy. I mean all of the political divisions and nationalistic attitudes (the other day a women @ my church said you had to be Greek to be Orthodox) etc.

It's a shame that some people take the cultural element frequently found in the OC that produces wonderful things (not the least of which is gyros and souvlakia at festivals) and use it for nationalism that borders on bigotry. If your whole congregation is like that, I would at a minimum find another one. If not, either ignore it or put her in her place and show her how idiotic her thinking is.

Some of what the local protestant ministers are saying about Orthodoxy's beliefs makes sense to me, I'm ashamed to admit it.

Such as? Just curious.

[Orchids]

I have heard Greeks say that about Orthodoxy, too. I just laughed it off. To me it is a joke, whether or not the one who said it believed it. :)

[skoi]

I'll pray for you.

I struggle over political issues in the church, and was really put off for a while by some of the political/cultural debates that were going on here at TAW- with some posters stating their views as if they were position of the Church, and if you differed, you were somehow not-completely Orthodox (you were too angry/hostile/warlike). I've also been discouraged by the people in my own parish at times- when some of the women make snipey comments about "converts and their headscarves". But Ithese are all things of the world, and I'm trying very hard to let them slide. The ethnic issue isn't a big one for us, as we're OCA and our church is very mixed (no Arabs though, everything but to our son's chagrin, because he really wants to learn Arabic).

[rusmeister]

I seem to recall Paul and Barnabas had their conflicts, too.

That said, welcome to the struggle. Moments of doubt are normal. The trick is to hang on to faith in the teeth of doubt, and to do it for the rest of your life, which, at times, can be a loooooooooong time.

Yeah, the retarded conflicts tee me off, too. Whaddya want when there are humans involved?

[Lukaris]

Actually prayer is a prime example where the other professing Christian groups doctrines are found wanting (This is not to say God does not hear or answer their prayers). Prayer may be our final refuge in preserving the faith; theological misconceptions re the Holy Trinity, the intercessions of the Theotokos and the saints, prayer of the heart, prayers for the departed etc. are either misunderstood or even rejected in the various other groups limiting intercessory prayer with the heavenly cloud of witness in calling upon our Lord. Of course love must frame our prayer and in this aspect, God knows our hearts and this is why we must not judge anyone's prayer to God in a general sense. Posting in a hurry aftera long work day and not all may make sense. God bless and keep the faith.

[Philothei]

Hey Komnenos... Please do not be hasty to look into other faiths. The church militant is different from the Church Triumphant ... look at our saints... They did not get stuck on nationalism and ephimeral things. There are way many many other people out there who are not 'stuck' on ethnicity and stuff... And to be honest with you Protestant churches have their own problems that way outcry ours... I know I myself get dishearted with lots of stuff I see in our church...esp. our politics it trully is desappointing.....But that is what the devil wants division.....division .....division.... and all Protestant churches have plenty of them...do not be fooled... As far as the devil working he is working his tail in every one church on earth... no one is immuned...

prayers

[Protoevangel]

I'm praying for you Komnenos.

You already have good replies here, esp Rusmeisters. Being Faithful doesn't mean to always be completely assured, it means to hang on to the truth through the doubt and hard times.

[Philothei]

The festivals got to go ..... IMO they do missreprent us tremendously... They makes us look money hungry and secular... I am all against them BTW. I like cultural events ok.. .like Greek night but those mega festivals got to go they are weary and aweful and tire out communities ...making them to have more secular goals than spiritual....Spread the word they got to go....

[Khaleas]

We'd close down many, many Orthodox churches if we didn't have the festivals. It's a way for many churches to even keep their doors open (yes, even Greek churches).
Maybe others misrepresent but we always have an increased attendance by new folks after the festivals. It's a 'non-threatening' environment when they can come and ask questions and get to know the parish a bit. Some have stuck around and converted.
Our priest, deacon and choir director are all almost constantly in the church to answer questions and talk to people. I have not unfortunately seen as much of a clergy presence at other Orthodox festivals as we have.
So yes, there are pros and cons but at least for my church it's a huge outreach both to the community and to individuals. And with the increases in utilities (50% raise in electricity cost last year and we all know about the oil) and insurance it's the only way we stay open.

[NHB_MMA]

I love the festivals and appreciate the financial benefit to the church. That being said, the last one I went to had $7.00 gyros and $1.50 cans of soda, which I thought was a little ridiculous.

[NHB_MMA]

Komnenos, I would add that if you have issues with politics, hierarchies, "holier-than-thou" types and other self-righteous, I know of no church that you would find to be any better. It's a universal problem.

[Dorothea]

The festivals got to go ..... IMO they do missreprent us tremendously... They makes us look money hungry and secular... I am all against them BTW. I like cultural events ok.. .like Greek night but those mega festivals got to go they are weary and aweful and tire out communities ...making them to have more secular goals than spiritual....Spread the word they got to go....
I have to say I disagree at least for the GOC I'm going to now. It's small, and the festival is what helps us get through the year and pay the bills. Also, this was our best year, the most people came (and some go every year, anticipating the festival because they love it....one couple told Fr. Dennis and I during this past festival). They said they like to come every day of it and every year and work their vacations around it. They said they like to help our church because it's part of their community. I think that's great. Also, many came in to see the Vespers service Father did that Saturday evening. We had a surprise guest....a priest monk from Denver came at that time, so it was really neat for the people who've never been to an Orthodox service to see this. Some even attended the Liturgy the next day. Father also did a talk Sunday evening to the guests who came in the church to listen to him. It's a great venue for our faith, and Father said it's all due to God that people draw near to our church each year. :liturgy:

[Philothei]

I do not wish to argue with you guys this is OT for sure... I just express an opinion take it with a grain of salt. The community at large think of us as materialistic... I had Catholics telling me we are so "money hungry" and there are other ways to keep doors open....stewardship perhaps?? People should realize that to maintain their church they have to take ownship of their churches...maybe that way they would appreciate their priest and their church better. They told me that we "impose" on the community at large to pay the bills for our churches... They were all good arguments... though. Also I am not agaisnt the religious and cultural aspect of festivals... to the contrary I am just talking about scaling them down... not eliminatiing them completely...They cannot be 90% of the budget... it is ridiculous...

[Dorothea]

I love the festivals and appreciate the financial benefit to the church. That being said, the last one I went to had $7.00 gyros and $1.50 cans of soda, which I thought was a little ridiculous.
Huh...that is just a little higher than our prices. We gave out tokens for food. A dollar a token. Gyros were $6.00 (or tokens), and sodas and bottled water were a token ($1) a piece. Baklava was $2.00. I think Greek salad was $4.00. I can't remember what the other things went for...I know the platter was more. But you could get a full meal for around $10. And entrance is free. Father said some churches have charged an entrance fee before you even buy any food.

[Dorothea]

I do not wish to argue with you guys this is OT for sure... I just express an opinion take it with a grain of salt. The community at large think of us as materialistic... I had Catholics telling me we are so "money hungry" and there are other ways to keep doors open....stewardship perhaps?? People should realize that to maintain their church they have to take ownship of their churches...maybe that way they would appreciate their priest and their church better. They told me that we "impose" on the community at large to pay the bills for our churches... They were all good arguments... though. Also I am not agaisnt the religious and cultural aspect of festivals... to the contrary I am just talking about scaling them down... not eliminatiing them completely...They cannot be 90% of the budget... it is ridiculous...

Wow! That's really too bad. Everyone was very happy to come to our little church's festival. For such a small church, we are amazed at how well we did. We only have 60 families in our church, so we struggle. Yes, all the people that came were so nice and really enjoyed the Greek dancers and the food. They said they look forward to it every year. It was really nice.

[skoi]

I do not wish to argue with you guys this is OT for sure... I just express an opinion take it with a grain of salt. The community at large think of us as materialistic... I had Catholics telling me we are so "money hungry" and there are other ways to keep doors open....stewardship perhaps?? People should realize that to maintain their church they have to take ownship of their churches...maybe that way they would appreciate their priest and their church better. They told me that we "impose" on the community at large to pay the bills for our churches... They were all good arguments... though. Also I am not agaisnt the religious and cultural aspect of festivals... to the contrary I am just talking about scaling them down... not eliminatiing them completely...They cannot be 90% of the budget... it is ridiculous...

Sorry to continue on the OT, but here where we live, the RC churches have huge carnivals- with rides done by carnival companies and midway games in addition to food. No church tours, nothing like that. Just a little Six Flags for a week. Our church does stewardship and an ethnic food festival, nothing fancy, just food, icons, Russian/Ukrainian goods and church tours.

[MariaRegina]

Hey Komnenos

Do you remember St. Paul's letter to the Corinthians?

I will always remember the sermon one of my priests gave on the passage where St. Paul says to the Corinthians, "Shall I come to you with a rod." Now, St. Paul was really annoyed with the Greeks from Corinth, not just once but several times.

"Shall I come to you with a rod." implies that St. Paul wanted to spank them because of their childish and unchristian behaviors.

In fact, St. Paul told them that he was glad that he had not baptized many Greeks. That implies that they were really a pain.

So, whenever someone tells you that you must be Greek-born to be an Orthodox Christian please realize that we all sin and that Greeks do not have salvation all wrapped up only for themselves. No, Christ came to preach the Gospel to Greeks and non-Greeks, to Hebrews and to non-Hebrews.

Nevertheless, I have known many Greeks Priests and laity who are wonderful. Some of the Greek faithful never went to catechism classes and so they think that they are the only Orthodox Christians. In fact, some of my Greek in-laws were shocked to learn that I attend an OCA church. They thought that the OCA was protestant.

Well, now they know, because I told them so, and their Greek Priest gave me Holy Communion.

[NHB_MMA]

Huh...that is just a little higher than our prices. We gave out tokens for food. A dollar a token. Gyros were $6.00 (or tokens), and sodas and bottled water were a token ($1) a piece. Baklava was $2.00. I think Greek salad was $4.00. I can't remember what the other things went for...I know the platter was more. But you could get a full meal for around $10. And entrance is free. Father said some churches have charged an entrance fee before you even buy any food.

Where I used to live, only 1 year ago, gyros were $4 and $5 at the two festivals I attended. $1 for a soda is no big deal...but this church just HAD to get that extra 50 cents.

Anyway, the food is always so good I could never eat for $10. :)

[GBTWC]

:preach:protestant Guy says :
cmon! stop talking bout festivals for a minute although the mention of gyros is making me salivate this guy is asking for help cus he's struggling with his faith in the church.

For what its worth probably not much here, stay in the word keep your nose in the bible and your knees on the floor. fix your eyes on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith and He will direct you

your on the right track if your letting your brothers and sisters in God know what your going through Ill be praying for you
PSALM 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

[Thekla]

prayers for you, Komnenos !

[Historynut]

I am praying for you as well Komnenos. I will reiterate what others have already said. Don't judge the church by the people in it but by the teachings of the Church. While the Church is more than just a secular organization it is still composed of flawed individuals whose actions should not be used to condemn it.

Other than problems with some of the people in the Church and some of the political bickering do you have any actual theological problems with the church?

[Philothei]

Sorry to continue on the OT, but here where we live, the RC churches have huge carnivals- with rides done by carnival companies and midway games in addition to food. No church tours, nothing like that. Just a little Six Flags for a week. Our church does stewardship and an ethnic food festival, nothing fancy, just food, icons, Russian/Ukrainian goods and church tours.
Thanks for the information.(even OT) ... I needed to hear that... Although in my mind it still does not justify it... Since it is like we agree with the "fund raising" .... So, if RC does bingo we should follow their "rotten" example? That is a big straw man...

[Xpycoctomos]

Ditto what others here ahve said (re the on-topic stuff).

You said: "Some of what the local protestant ministers are saying about Orthodoxy's beliefs makes sense to me, I'm ashamed to admit it."

What stuff is that? Sometimes simply honeslty discussing it helps. PM me or someone here who you think would give you honest answers to help you through this. I say to use the PM only so that you can control the conversation and play devil's advocate without having others accuse you of being anti-ORthdox or something.

Anyway, I have had my doubts before and I have been "bewildered by false teachings" before, but just talking about it with a good friend has helped a lot.

But as everyone else has said... pray pray and pray. Otherwise you will only continue down the path your going.

God bless brother... you are totally not alone. Most all of us have been there.

Xpy

[ArmyMatt]

I'll pray for you brother! don't allow the sins of man prevent you from keeping to the True Church. as a German/Celtic convert, some of the guys that I was told to look to were the saints of the West pre schism, that I could culturally identify with.

also, the really holy people like Elder Ephraim and Fr Seraphim Rose of blessed memory, never turned anyone away who was seeking Christ.

remember the Apostles were Orthodox, and they were not Greek

[angrylittlefisherman]

:preach:protestant Guy says :
cmon! stop talking bout festivals for a minute although the mention of gyros is making me salivate this guy is asking for help cus he's struggling with his faith in the church.

For what its worth probably not much here, stay in the word keep your nose in the bible and your knees on the floor. fix your eyes on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith and He will direct you

your on the right track if your letting your brothers and sisters in God know what your going through Ill be praying for you
PSALM 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Thank you for saying this. I was getting rather frustrated that this thread has turned into a discussion of gyros and sodas.
If you are struggling with your faith, remember that tests are not always bad. I almost became and agnostic, but through that test I found Orthodoxy, I found the fullness of truth; and sometimes it is easy to get distracted by stupid people. If you are struggling with the politics of the church you should look at the life of St. John of Shanghai. I am reading the life and works of Father Seraphim Rose, and in it it talks about a horrendous trial that St. John persevered through, where members of his parish took him to court, and were almost fighting in the streets over some the dumbest things I have ever heard. You should bring your struggles to your priest, or maybe you might have to find another parish. As to what that woman said about only Greeks being Orthodox, that is quite possibly the silliest thing I have ever heard in my life, Christ says that he brings salvation to all mankind. I do not even know how that woman can even back up what she said, there are so many other great Orthodox saints who are not Greek, is she refuting the canons of the church? I am curious to hear what the protestant minister said to you.
God bless you.:crosseo:

[Thekla]

although you may have heard otherwise on your end, this daughter of a protestant minister has frequently heard from her dad comments like -- the Orthodox have it right, and (when discussing theology) thats what I always thought, its a shame that we protestants have lost it ...

so I guess it depends on which protestant minister you talk to :)

[juliagreece]

A Jewish man wanted to convert to Christianity, but had no idea where to go - to the Catholics, the Protestants or the Orthodox. One day he meet a Christian monk and explained his dilemma. The monk told him that the best thing to do would be to attend a Protestant church for a year, A Roman church for another and then an Orthodox Church for a third and then decide where he wanted to go. The man did this and after three years returned to the monk.
"So what did you find", asked the monk
"Well I went to the Protestants and they had a lot of bible teaching and sang some nice songs...then I went to the Catholics and the had a beautiful Mass and were very organized...then I went to the Orthodox..."
"And?.."
"Well, " the man continued, "there I found infighting amongst the hierarchs and clergy, nationalism in the parishes and endless scandals."
"So where have you decided to go?" asked the monk
"To the Orthodox Church." said the man.
"What! After all that you saw there?"
"Yes, because if this Church has survived intact for 2000 years with all these problems, it must be the True Church!"

[-Kyriaki-]

Julia, I love that.

And Thekla - haha, I thought it was just me that got that from her father!

[MariaRegina]

A Jewish man wanted to convert to Christianity, but had no idea where to go - to the Catholics, the Protestants or the Orthodox. One day he meet a Christian monk and explained his dilemma. The monk told him that the best thing to do would be to attend a Protestant church for a year, A Roman church for another and then an Orthodox Church for a third and then decide where he wanted to go. The man did this and after three years returned to the monk.
"So what did you find", asked the monk
"Well I went to the Protestants and they had a lot of bible teaching and sang some nice songs...then I went to the Catholics and the had a beautiful Mass and were very organized...then I went to the Orthodox..."
"And?.."
"Well, " the man continued, "there I found infighting amongst the hierarchs and clergy, nationalism in the parishes and endless scandals."
"So where have you decided to go?" asked the monk
"To the Orthodox Church." said the man.
"What! After all that you saw there?"
"Yes, because if this Church has survived intact for 2000 years with all these problems, it must be the True Church!"

:)

Thanks for sharing that!

[rusmeister]

You know what - (this bears repeating) - Remember Natalie Wood in "A Miracle on 34th St"? In the very end, she has come to faith, encounters a major downer when Santa Claus seemingly lets her down, and she's sitting in the car saying "I believe, I believe, it's silly, but I believe.."
It's basically the cry of the father "I believe Lord, help my unbelief!"

That helps me a lot.

It's like Lewis said - it's about holding onto faith as, "the power to go on believing not in the teeth of reason but in the teeth of lust and terror and jealousy and boredom and indifference that which reason, authority, or experience, or all three, have once delivered to us for truth."

[Qoheleth]

I do not wish to argue with you guys this is OT for sure... I just express an opinion take it with a grain of salt. The community at large think of us as materialistic... I had Catholics telling me we are so "money hungry" and there are other ways to keep doors open....stewardship perhaps?? People should realize that to maintain their church they have to take ownship of their churches...maybe that way they would appreciate their priest and their church better. They told me that we "impose" on the community at large to pay the bills for our churches... They were all good arguments... though. Also I am not agaisnt the religious and cultural aspect of festivals... to the contrary I am just talking about scaling them down... not eliminatiing them completely...They cannot be 90% of the budget... it is ridiculous...


Very interesting you say this. I know of two Bishops who are forbidding "fund raisers" of any type which are directed at (mostly) the non-Orthodox community to pay their bills.



Q

[Philothei]

[quote=Qoheleth;47953536]Very interesting you say this. I know of two Bishops who are forbidding "fund raisers" of any type which are directed at (mostly) the non-Orthodox community to pay their bills.

ha!!! good for those Bishops...:):clap::clap::clap:
Communities large and small have to have stewardship system. Depending on a festival should only be in a small scale if not totally eliminated... :thumbsup:

[Komnenos]

Ditto what others here ahve said (re the on-topic stuff).

You said: "Some of what the local protestant ministers are saying about Orthodoxy's beliefs makes sense to me, I'm ashamed to admit it."

What stuff is that? Sometimes simply honeslty discussing it helps. PM me or someone here who you think would give you honest answers to help you through this. I say to use the PM only so that you can control the conversation and play devil's advocate without having others accuse you of being anti-ORthdox or something.

Anyway, I have had my doubts before and I have been "bewildered by false teachings" before, but just talking about it with a good friend has helped a lot.

But as everyone else has said... pray pray and pray. Otherwise you will only continue down the path your going.

God bless brother... you are totally not alone. Most all of us have been there.

Xpy
Thanks for the prayers everyone, I feel better.


To Xpy,
How basically nothing the EOC does is biblical like honoring the Theotokos and the saints. I dismissed i before, but I hear it again and again. It makes you think.

[Thekla]

Thanks for the prayers everyone, I feel better.


To Xpy,
How basically nothing the EOC does is biblical like honoring the Theotokos and the saints. I dismissed i before, but I hear it again and again. It makes you think.

sorry to interrupt --

but my dad (40 plus years a minister, 3 graduate Protestant Seminary degrees and a deep love for Christ) says that one of THE major failures of "protestants" was to "dump" the Saints and the Theotokos. As for my dad - with countless hours of Bible reading and classes - he does believe in asking the Saints and the Theotokos for prayers. In fact, he does so himself, and will sometimes mention which Saint I should "approach" for help ... :)

[Komnenos]

sorry to interrupt --

but my dad (40 plus years a minister, 3 graduate Protestant Seminary degrees and a deep love for Christ) says that one of THE major failures of "protestants" was to "dump" the Saints and the Theotokos. As for my dad - with countless hours of Bible reading and classes - he does believe in asking the Saints and the Theotokos for prayers. In fact, he does so himself, and will sometimes mention which Saint I should "approach" for help ... :)
Really? I have never met a Protestant like him before! In an hour I'm going to talk to my priest about the failings I'm having in my faithy. Pray for me,

Komnenos.

[Komnenos]

You know what - (this bears repeating) - Remember Natalie Wood in "A Miracle on 34th St"? In the very end, she has come to faith, encounters a major downer when Santa Claus seemingly lets her down, and she's sitting in the car saying "I believe, I believe, it's silly, but I believe.."
It's basically the cry of the father "I believe Lord, help my unbelief!"

That helps me a lot.

It's like Lewis said - it's about holding onto faith as, "the power to go on believing not in the teeth of reason but in the teeth of lust and terror and jealousy and boredom and indifference that which reason, authority, or experience, or all three, have once delivered to us for truth."
Thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

[Komnenos]

Hey Komnenos

Do you remember St. Paul's letter to the Corinthians?

I will always remember the sermon one of my priests gave on the passage where St. Paul says to the Corinthians, "Shall I come to you with a rod." Now, St. Paul was really annoyed with the Greeks from Corinth, not just once but several times.

"Shall I come to you with a rod." implies that St. Paul wanted to spank them because of their childish and unchristian behaviors.

In fact, St. Paul told them that he was glad that he had not baptized many Greeks. That implies that they were really a pain.

So, whenever someone tells you that you must be Greek-born to be an Orthodox Christian please realize that we all sin and that Greeks do not have salvation all wrapped up only for themselves. No, Christ came to preach the Gospel to Greeks and non-Greeks, to Hebrews and to non-Hebrews.

Nevertheless, I have known many Greeks Priests and laity who are wonderful. Some of the Greek faithful never went to catechism classes and so they think that they are the only Orthodox Christians. In fact, some of my Greek in-laws were shocked to learn that I attend an OCA church. They thought that the OCA was protestant.

Well, now they know, because I told them so, and their Greek Priest gave me Holy Communion.
The worst part is , being Greek, when I told them that their view was wrong I was told I wasn't a "real Greek" :(

[Protoevangel]

The worst part is , being Greek, when I told them that their view was wrong I was told I wasn't a "real Greek" :(
Well, just reply with "Thank God!"

Every group has one ignorant butthead. If you have people talking to you like that, you at least know there is a good chance that the groups ignorant butthead isn't you.

[Komnenos]

Well, just reply with "Thank God!"

Every group has one ignorant butthead. If you have people talking to you like that, you at least know there is a good chance that the groups ignorant butthead isn't you. ^_^ lol I should have!

[Philothei]

The worst part is , being Greek, when I told them that their view was wrong I was told I wasn't a "real Greek" :(

who told you that? that is stupid...!!!!

Listen my hubby as you know is from Poli too.. His family suffered to come over to the states.. in the 70s. They faced lots of discrimination from the Hellenes of Greece calling them Turks and such... I am familiar with that type of discrimination also.. Do not let them bother you... You are a true Hellene a Romio....!!!!! You are a Greek no matter your faith... I stil believe that the Lord would lead you back to your faith.

To be honest in this thread I was over taken with the amount of faith by our recent converts :amen:... My faith gets shaken from time to time and I am cradle orthodox... I think it is part of our human nature to doubt.

Komnene take care...and prayers to you...

Have you thought that your wife's pregancy might have triggered this kind of thinking also?? It is a stressful period. Please pray and give your self some credit. You just moved to another country and with a baby on the way ...that is enough to stress you out me thinks....

:groupray:

[Komnenos]

who told you that? that is stupid...!!!!

Listen my hubby as you know is from Poli too.. His family suffered to come over to the states.. in the 70s. They faced lots of discrimination from the Hellenes of Greece calling them Turks and such... I am familiar with that type of discrimination also.. Do not let them bother you... You are a true Hellene a Romio....!!!!! You are a Greek no matter your faith... I stil believe that the Lord would lead you back to your faith.

To be honest in this thread I was over taken with the amount of faith by our recent converts :amen:... My faith gets shaken from time to time and I am cradle orthodox... I think it is part of our human nature to doubt.

Komnene take care...and prayers to you...

Have you thought that your wife's pregancy might have triggered this kind of thinking also?? It is a stressful period. Please pray and give your self some credit. You just moved to another country and with a baby on the way ...that is enough to stress you out me thinks....

:groupray:
Efcharisto, for your kind words. It is hard, the same person (An old yia yia from Lakonia) also called me and my wife Turks. I think you may be right, the stress may be getting to me. We forget what really matters sometimes you know?

[Andrew21091]

Someone mentioned St. John of San Francisco earlier in the thread and that was a perfect example, the kind of crap he had to deal with from the Orthodox in his jurisdiction. He never lost faith and neither should you. Pray for them. It is a sad shame when people mix Orthodoxy with their nationalism. Remember to pray and just forget about the problems that you will find. The devil loves to attack the True Orthodox Faith and he will do it with persecutions and he will do it through our passions. The devil rejoices when someone falls and starts to lose faith; you have to be strong and fight the evil one and your passions and always remember that the nationalistic ideas that some Orthodox hold are a delusion of the devil and come from pride. Pray that God will show them their wrongs.

[Philothei]

Efcharisto, for your kind words. It is hard, the same person (An old yia yia from Lakonia) also called me and my wife Turks. I think you may be right, the stress may be getting to me. We forget what really matters sometimes you know?


son of a ....gun.. she did? ...I knew it my friend... It happens though...Visit a Antiochian Church for a while or OCA...see how you guys feel there... Do not go to that same Church... until you feel strong enough to deal with them.. They are "hairy ticks" that are hard to get rid off... They call us Tourkosporoi in Greece.... Is it lovely for the Greeks to call their bothers that??? Awesome... I thank God my family is also from Asia Minor so they treated my husband as one of them... I am from Smyrni... so no problem here.. .But yeah a Spartan would say that. You should tell her she is not a full blooded Greek either since she is barbaric...lol... throwing the sick kids over the cliff.....lol.... try it. That might put her in her place...!!!!!


I am not too fond of the Greeks myself even being Greek when they discriminate like that ... I hope that some people here understand that discrimination is also "between" Greeks not only for foreigners... STick it out Komnene... :) Do not let them get to you . Also try the Constantinopolitan association in NY they would love to have you as a member.. I know where I am I might join the Asia Minor association.

It will help you and support you during this difficult time of re-adjusting in the States. ... They are nice people I have met some of them. Even if they are older sometimes they older they are the better.. ;)

[MariaRegina]

The Greek pastor said that Greeks tend to look down at each other. So the Greeks from Crete were considered uneducated peasants. The Greeks from Cyrpus were put down for other reasons. Yet, when push comes to shove, the Greeks did unite against the attack on Kosovo by the USA.

Who told us about the Greeks who turned the street signs around so that the US Army trucks carrying supplies ended up stuck in a wet mucky farm field?

[Greg the byzantine]

Bwahaha. Komnene don't you worry, people can be really dumb. We're from Cyprus and so many mainland Greeks don't consider us to be true Greeks either. All you need to know is that God didn't come down from Heaven and die on the Cross so that some ignorant old lady who grew up in the horio could pass judgment on us based on where we come from. It also reminds me of an old lady who tried to convince me that the Theotokos was Greek. I just shook my head and laughed. God bless them but sometimes you just have to realize they don't know any better, and that they become set in their ways and only God knows what's in their hearts and minds. Go and worship God and don't pay attention to those who have big mouths with little else going for them.

[MariaRegina]

The sorry situation of the Greeks was perpetuated upon them by the Ottoman Empire who conspired to keep the Greeks uneducated.

Well, the Greeks pulled one on the Ottoman Empire. Since the Turks said that they respected the "People of the Book" they requested that they be allowed to dance as it was considered part of their religion. The Turks allowed it and the young men became strong enough to resist and finally win independence.

[MariaRegina]

However, years of closed schools and universities took their toll. The Greeks were taught their culture but not the deep theology needed. And so many became superstitious, again thanks to the Ottoman Turks.

[Thekla]

hey Komnene,

as you know, my Pappou grew up in Constantinople -- but his mother was from *gasp* Cyprus (hey, Gregg :)). I remember someone saying that Cypriots weren't "really" Greek. What can be said ? There are bigger concerns; mostly, though, I am glad you are here.

in Christ !

[Komnenos]

To Greg and Philothei. thanks a lot fellow Hellenes in exile! I will try to ignore her from now on. Thankfully not all of the congregation is like this. I talked to father and I feel much better now. I actually feel stronger in my faith then before! I know now that politics has nothing to do with holy Orthodoxy! I would like to thank everyone here at TAW and CF for putting up with me in my despair and for all the prayers that have been said for me. I am currently looking for other parishes in the area (Cape May NJ if anyone knows of any parishes in the area I will be very grateful) but for know I will just ignore the haters. Thanks everyone again!

Komnenos.

[MariaRegina]

Trust me, Komnenos, the Greeks have the lilt of the Irish when they sing. You will miss Greek chant.

Root where you are planted and carry a cane to chase the yia yias away

[Komnenos]

Trust me, Komnenos, the Greeks have the lilt of the Irish when they sing. You will miss Greek chant.

Root where you are planted and carry a cane to chase the yia yias away
I know, but I really do not like being belittled. I'm in a moral quandary!

OT, can you guy's see my Avatar?

[Dorothea]

To Greg and Philothei. thanks a lot fellow Hellenes in exile! I will try to ignore her from now on. Thankfully not all of the congregation is like this. I talked to father and I feel much better now. I actually feel stronger in my faith then before! I know now that politics has nothing to do with holy Orthodoxy! I would like to thank everyone here at TAW and CF for putting up with me in my despair and for all the prayers that have been said for me. I am currently looking for other parishes in the area (Cape May NJ if anyone knows of any parishes in the area I will be very grateful) but for know I will just ignore the haters. Thanks everyone again!

Komnenos.
I'm glad your spiritual father calmed your concerns and doubts. It's true that we do grow stronger when we're tested (or going through a difficult struggle in our faith). :) :hug:

[Dorothea]

OT, can you guy's see my Avatar?
No, I don't see it. :confused:

[Komnenos]

No, I don't see it. :confused:
I don't understand. It just says "Komnenos' Avatar" :confused::confused::confused:

[Philothei]

Maybe you need to go and re-edit. I am thrilled your meeting with your priest eased your mind. And I think Greg, Thekla and myself have experienced this kind of percecution.. Yeah being a Cypriot (in a greeky parish) sometimes is a difficult thing but there is a Cypriot club I am sure that you can belong to. I am glad that you feel better about our Orthodox Church... that has nothing to do with your hurt... from a yiayia that she only says what it was said to her while growing up... never to evaluate what the true meaning was and what it truly meant...

Later,
Philothei

[rusmeister]

Responding to the comments on nationalism, I'd throw in that I'm an American national living in Russia, and that makes me a fairly rare bird, especially outside of Moscow (I am practically the only one in my "county"). In my parish I am a weekly reminder to everyone that Orthodoxy is not "a Russian thing". Our priest, in a sermon a few weeks ago, spoke of the wrongness of seeing it as a 'national thing' and I just pretended like I was somewhere else - I imagine that at times like that, I come up on everyone's mind. Maybe that's one of the reasons God sent me here...

[Protoevangel]

I talked to father and I feel much better now. I actually feel stronger in my faith then before! I know now that politics has nothing to do with holy Orthodoxy! I would like to thank everyone here at TAW and CF for putting up with me in my despair and for all the prayers that have been said for me.
Praise God!

I am currently looking for other parishes in the area (Cape May NJ if anyone knows of any parishes in the area I will be very grateful) but for know I will just ignore the haters. Thanks everyone again!

Komnenos.
You've already used orthodoxyinamerica.org, right? Unless you have a way of crossing the bay (to an Antiochian mission), it looks like you are stuck where you are, unless you are willing to travel 30 miles or more. There are a bunch of parishes between 30 and 40 miles away from you, including OCA, Russian, Ukranian, and other Greek parishes. But then again, there may be newer missions closer to you, that hasn't been added to the list yet.

[Komnenos]

Praise God!


You've already used orthodoxyinamerica.org, right? Unless you have a way of crossing the bay (to an Antiochian mission), it looks like you are stuck where you are, unless you are willing to travel 30 miles or more. There are a bunch of parishes between 30 and 40 miles away from you, including OCA, Russian, Ukranian, and other Greek parishes. But then again, there may be newer missions closer to you, that hasn't been added to the list yet.

Thanks proto. It looks like I am stuck here. oh well. I will take Philothei and Greg's advice. again thanks to everyone who helped me with this problem!:hug:

[Philothei]

:hug:Yes you are stuck...better believe it you are :) kai me to kalo kai to baby :)


you are welcome....

[Epiphanius]

To Greg and Philothei. thanks a lot fellow Hellenes in exile! I will try to ignore her from now on. Thankfully not all of the congregation is like this. I talked to father and I feel much better now. I actually feel stronger in my faith then before! I know now that politics has nothing to do with holy Orthodoxy! I would like to thank everyone here at TAW and CF for putting up with me in my despair and for all the prayers that have been said for me. I am currently looking for other parishes in the area (Cape May NJ if anyone knows of any parishes in the area I will be very grateful) but for know I will just ignore the haters. Thanks everyone again!

Komnenos.

Glory to God for your newfound strength!

[Komnenos]

:hug:Yes you are stuck...better believe it you are :) kai me to kalo kai to baby :)


you are welcome....
:)

[cassc]

A Jewish man wanted to convert to Christianity, but had no idea where to go - to the Catholics, the Protestants or the Orthodox. One day he meet a Christian monk and explained his dilemma. The monk told him that the best thing to do would be to attend a Protestant church for a year, A Roman church for another and then an Orthodox Church for a third and then decide where he wanted to go. The man did this and after three years returned to the monk.
"So what did you find", asked the monk
"Well I went to the Protestants and they had a lot of bible teaching and sang some nice songs...then I went to the Catholics and the had a beautiful Mass and were very organized...then I went to the Orthodox..."
"And?.."
"Well, " the man continued, "there I found infighting amongst the hierarchs and clergy, nationalism in the parishes and endless scandals."
"So where have you decided to go?" asked the monk
"To the Orthodox Church." said the man.
"What! After all that you saw there?"
"Yes, because if this Church has survived intact for 2000 years with all these problems, it must be the True Church!"

This made me smile but I almost cried at the same time! Lord Have Mercy! :crosseo:

[cassc]

When my grandmother was a girl a neighbor called her a Turk and pushed her down the stairs, it broke her nose, and it breaks my heart that these sentiments are still prevalent in our culture. I am glad that your talk with Father went well, there is a lot of nasty in this world don't let it drive you from the faith.
I think we all hit that point sometimes (I know I do)- Lord Have Mercy.

[cassc]

I am reading Surprised by Christ by Rev. A James Bernstein. I think it's been talked about here before but it's about a Jewish man who becomes a Christian in his teens and spend his young adulthood as a Protestant before researching Catholicism and Orthodoxy and eventual converting to Orthodoxy, attending St Vlads and becoming an Orthodox Priest. Most of the book seems to be addressing primary misconceptions in Protestantism and Catholicism. Might be worth getting a copy...

[MariaRegina]

I am reading Surprised by Christ by Rev. A James Bernstein. I think it's been talked about here before but it's about a Jewish man who becomes a Christian in his teens and spend his young adulthood as a Protestant before researching Catholicism and Orthodoxy and eventual converting to Orthodoxy, attending St Vlads and becoming an Orthodox Priest. Most of the book seems to be addressing primary misconceptions in Protestantism and Catholicism. Might be worth getting a copy...

Is this a book or a pamphlet. I read his pamphlet published by Conciliar Press and it is excellent.

[cassc]

Is this a book or a pamphlet. I read his pamphlet published by Conciliar Press and it is excellent.

It's a book (brand new basically since the copy write date is 2008) I just picked it up at the Clergy-Laity conference...

[Komnenos]

When my grandmother was a girl a neighbor called her a Turk and pushed her down the stairs, it broke her nose, and it breaks my heart that these sentiments are still prevalent in our culture. I am glad that your talk with Father went well, there is a lot of nasty in this world don't let it drive you from the faith.
I think we all hit that point sometimes (I know I do)- Lord Have Mercy.
Are you from Mikra Asia or the Poli too! Freaking Laconians, think they own the rights to be Greek I think 300 went to their heads!

[MariaRegina]

Are you from Mikra Asia or the Poli too! Freaking Laconians, think they own the rights to be Greek I think 300 went to their heads!

I guess some Greeks still think that they a part of a city-state. Sad.

I guess we Americans act that way during the Superbowl too.

Do Greeks have national sports leagues like the Americans do?

[cassc]

Are you from Mikra Asia or the Poli too! Freaking Laconians, think they own the rights to be Greek I think 300 went to their heads!
I'd laugh if it wasn't so true. My grandmother's family had olive groves outside Constantinople, but I (as my cousins in Greece say) am American (with only a little disdain in their voice) ;)

[Komnenos]

I'd laugh if it wasn't so true. My grandmother's family had olive groves outside Constantinople, but I (as my cousins in Greece say) am American (with only a little disdain in their voice) ;)
Yeah I got the "American" thing said to me to. They're just jealous:P

[Philothei]

Freaking Laconians, think they own the rights to be Greek I think 300 went to their heads!


lol....donot forget the famous "apo ton isthmo kai kato oute skylo oute gato..."
I am sure your dad knows this saying... lol.. I do not dare to translate...although great saints came from Peloponese... But then again we do not want to appear as discriminatory as they are... That would actually prove their point...

This is for you Komnene....
It is trully funny describing the Lacedemonians.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54jSBuz_HI&NR=1

[Komnenos]

lol....donot forget the famous "apo ton isthmo kai kato oute skylo oute gato..."
I am sure your dad knows this saying... lol.. I do not dare to translate...although great saints came from Peloponese... But then again we do not want to appear as discriminatory as they are... That would actually prove their point...

This is for you Komnene....
It is trully funny describing the Lacedemonians.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54jSBuz_HI&NR=1

^_^ ^_^ ^_^ pesta pesta....