Hey why ya debating Paula White's "faith healer" daughter dying?

[NewSong]

She didn't even have a daughter that had cancer or died!

[NewSong]

Interestingly, the daughter in question is actually her estranged husband Randy's daughter from a previous marriage. And this person is not a child, but an adult. Paula White led me and my audience to believe that she had a young child at home dying of cancer; she played the sympathy card when it became apparent she had lost the sympathy of the audience on the issues she was asked to address.
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/PaulEdwards/2007/10/16/paula_whites_desperate_moment

[BenAdam]

wow...

[BenAdam]

dup

[mont974x4]

Wow, I actually just lost respect for her. Given her false teaching I didn't think that was possible.


While none of us here takes joy in the death of another person, she should have known better than to bring her step daughter (grown or not) into the discussion in the way (and for the purpose) that she did.



All of which does not change the reason for discussing her, and the death of her family member, in light of the topic of PHIA, faith healing, etc. It would stand to reason that if her teachings were true, then she should have been able to have enough faith to heal her step-daughter. But then, we know that what she teaches on the subject is false.

I pray she listens to the Holy Spirit so she can be led to the truth.

[NewSong]

edited out

[JimfromOhio]

What an eye-opening article. Thanks for sharing.

[Jimbeaux]

As tragic as the loss of a loved one is, the event does point out a trap public ministries who make outlandish claims fall into. When life doesn’t turn out as their claims and theology declare they will they find themselves trapped by their own public words. When millions of dollars are at stake, it becomes even more treacherous. If they offer unconvincing reasons they look silly and lose their lucrative following and, if the recant, they lose face and their lucrative following.

There is something to be said for not pursuing personal ambition are going too far out on a brittle limb.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[dkbwarrior]

I thought that this excert from the artical was interesting:

Interestingly, the daughter in question is actually her estranged husband Randy's daughter from a previous marriage. And this person is not a child, but an adult. Paula White led me and my audience to believe that she had a young child at home dying of cancer...

The underlined portion is a subjective opinion, though probably true. And it is the same problem with the other thread on this subject.

Using a personal tragedy in your own life or anothers life to try to win debating points is pretty manipulative, by her or anyone else. It helps me understand why the Holy Spirit never led me to listen to her or participate in her ministry.

By the way, this is wrong from whatever side of the argument you come from. I remember about eight months ago or so, there was a thread on Joni Erickson Tada. And I said the same thing then. It is innappropriate to use someones tragedy as a debating point.

If you cant use scripture to make your points, then you don't have an argument to begin with, just an opinion, and probably (when invoking another persons tragedy to win a debating point) a manipulative spirit to boot.

Peace...

[mont974x4]

Perhaps it's occassionally used as point of manipulation. I would guess most of the time people are just looking to point out real life examples to help show a biblical point, which is just fine to do.


BTW, dk, did you just admit you just stated an opinion and may have a manipulative spirit? :sorry: I actually had to read that line twice, I know that's not how you meant it. LOL



Jay

[NewSong]

I thought that this excert from the artical was interesting:

Interestingly, the daughter in question is actually her estranged husband Randy's daughter from a previous marriage. And this person is not a child, but an adult. Paula White led me and my audience to believe that she had a young child at home dying of cancer...

The underlined portion is a subjective opinion, though probably true. And it is the same problem with the other thread on this subject.

Using a personal tragedy in your own life or anothers life to try to win debating points is pretty manipulative, by her or anyone else. It helps me understand why the Holy Spirit never led me to listen to her or participate in her ministry.

By the way, this is wrong from whatever side of the argument you come from. I remember about eight months ago or so, there was a thread on Joni Erickson Tada. And I said the same thing then. It is innappropriate to use someones tragedy as a debating point.

If you cant use scripture to make your points, then you don't have an argument to begin with, just an opinion, and probably a manipulative spirit to boot.

Peace...

Well thanks for sharing your opinion but I disagree with you.

[NewSong]

If you cannot use real life to make a point along with the scriptures then there has to be a problem and it is not manipulation. It is because the person don't want to own up to the cracks in the ministry of "faith healers"? Or is it because it is another way to control the truth getting out and exposing it?

I personally am very sorry for those who have lost their family members but if they lost their family members then why if they are claiming their healing faith? I personally would like answers to it and as far as exposing Paula White? Why wouldn't I? Do I want people deceived by her? Please dear GOD no. I pray she gets her life on track.

[geetrue]

I personally am very sorry for those who have lost their family members but if they lost their family members then why if they are claiming their healing faith?

I personally would like answers to it and as far as exposing Paula White? Why wouldn't I? Do I want people deceived by her?

Please dear GOD no. I pray she gets her life on track.

Please add a few more names to your list ... I won't say who, though. ;)

[NewSong]

Please add a few more names to your list ... I won't say who, though. ;)
Be nice! I left you a visitor message. You better not say who. I read minds. I have been given an insightful spirit (lol) and that spirit says you are up to something. ^_^

[dkbwarrior]

Perhaps it's occassionally used as point of manipulation. I would guess most of the time people are just looking to point out real life examples to help show a biblical point, which is just fine to do.


BTW, dk, did you just admit you just stated an opinion and may have a manipulative spirit? :sorry: I actually had to read that line twice, I know that's not how you meant it. LOL



Jay

Ahhh...

Yes I was typing faster than I was thinking. I went back and edited the post to show my thinking at that line of the post.

Peace...

[dkbwarrior]

If you cannot use real life to make a point along with the scriptures then there has to be a problem and it is not manipulation. It is because the person don't want to own up to the cracks in the ministry of "faith healers"? Or is it because it is another way to control the truth getting out and exposing it?

I personally am very sorry for those who have lost their family members but if they lost their family members then why if they are claiming their healing faith? I personally would like answers to it and as far as exposing Paula White? Why wouldn't I? Do I want people deceived by her? Please dear GOD no. I pray she gets her life on track.

Of course you can use real life to make a point. But exploiting such for the purpose of manipulation is different.

David committed adultery. He was also a man after Gods own heart. Ergo, Gods will must be adultery, right?

Of course not.

You nor I know if Paula White's daughter believed she received or not, ie had faith. We don't even know if she was a christian. One thing for sure, the fact that she died is no reflection of Gods will for her, any more than a person going to hell is a reflection of Gods will for them.

The fact that a person doesn't use something they have been given doesn't prove that it doesn't exist.

Peace...

[Jimbeaux]

*****

David committed adultery. He was also a man after Gods own heart. Ergo, Gods will must be adultery, right?

Of course not.

*****

Um, the phrase “David was a man after God’s own heart” simply means that He was God’s appointed and anointed king over His people. That was a sovereign choice, not an indication of David’s character.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[mont974x4]

Ahhh...

Yes I was typing faster than I was thinking. I went back and edited the post to show my thinking at that line of the post.

Peace...


no worries, it was probably more me than you. LOL I was in the middle of an email and phone call when I read your post. :doh:

[mont974x4]

Um, the phrase “David was a man after God’s own heart” simply means that He was God’s appointed and anointed king over His people. That was a sovereign choice, not an indication of David’s character.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain




I always thought of this statement as an example of Davids heart in light of the ideal of his being a man after God's own heart.....

nasb
1Sa 17:26 Then David spoke to the men who were standing by him, saying, "What will be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should taunt the armies of the living God?"

(emphasis mine)


You are correct, David's sin is not an indication that God endorses the sin. However, how David handled his sin shows, again, his heart being right. As does how he handled the situation with Saul.

[Jimbeaux]

I always thought of this statement as an example of Davids heart in light of the ideal of his being a man after God's own heart.....

nasb
1Sa 17:26 Then David spoke to the men who were standing by him, saying, "What will be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should taunt the armies of the living God?"

(emphasis mine)


You are correct, David's sin is not an indication that God endorses the sin. However, how David handled his sin shows, again, his heart being right. As does how he handled the situation with Saul.


At the risk of someday meeting David and having to apologize, David did not handle his sin very well. Committing adultery is bad enough but compounding it by murdering her husband is not handling sin very well. And David did not repent until he was directly confronted by a prophet. It was not in his heart until he was exposed.

But I think this is off topic.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[mont974x4]

Yes, it is off topic. Sorry. I will end with saying he ultimately did handle it well, and far better than most in similar circumstances.


back on topic....life and death are in God's hands. I don't beleive there is anything I can do to really impact that. Healing is in His hands, and I don't belive I can impact that.

Paul prayed 3 times for the thorn in his flesh to be removed. God did not do it.

God is not a cosmic santa clause or a spoiled brat burning ants. He is not sitting there waiting for us to figure out what sin we need to confess in order to be healed. He's not sitting there waiting for us to beg Him enough or for us to suddenly have enough faith.

God is soveriegn over all things and He is faithful and just to give me exactly what He knows I need at all times.

[NewSong]

Of course you can use real life to make a point. But exploiting such for the purpose of manipulation is different.

David committed adultery. He was also a man after Gods own heart. Ergo, Gods will must be adultery, right?

Of course not.

You nor I know if Paula White's daughter believed she received or not, ie had faith. We don't even know if she was a christian. One thing for sure, the fact that she died is no reflection of Gods will for her, any more than a person going to hell is a reflection of Gods will for them.

The fact that a person doesn't use something they have been given doesn't prove that it doesn't exist.

Peace...

I think the point is that while pointing and saying it is an exploitation and a manipulation the point of my postl is missed. I would appreciate it if we stayed on topic.

Once again, I disagree with you and your perspective and the hearts intent of those who are posting on this thread.

I posted this topic for a very good reason. There is no daughter that belongs to Paula White that died so why debate!

[mont974x4]

Most people come to think of their step children as their own children...even when grown.


The case was brought up in the other thread to prove a point, and it did. Paula Whites false teaching, her key theology, failed the test.

[~RENEE~]

There is no daughter that belongs to Paula White that died so why debate!
Actually that's not what is being debated over there. It is. Healing. again.

[NewSong]

Most people come to think of their step children as their own children...even when grown.


The case was brought up in the other thread to prove a point, and it did. Paula Whites false teaching, her key theology, failed the test.

Possibly the think of them as their own???? It certainly depends on the individuals....YOU still missed MY point!

[NewSong]

Thank you Renee! Perhaps it is good that I don't go there. :)

[mont974x4]

I got your point, and rejected it as irrelevant to the real issue.

[NewSong]

The real point is my OP in this thread.

[mont974x4]

and we addressed it earlier in the thread, and now the thread has gone the way as all threads go....off topic of the OP lol

[NewSong]

and we addressed it earlier in the thread, and now the thread has gone the way as all threads go....off topic of the OP lol

Okay and your point is? Are you messing with my thread?????:cool::P LOL

This is me ->:angel:

[mont974x4]

:sorry: who me?

[NewSong]

:sorry: who me? :tantrum: us

[pinetree]

If you cannot use real life to make a point along with the scriptures then there has to be a problem and it is not manipulation. It is because the person don't want to own up to the cracks in the ministry of "faith healers"? Or is it because it is another way to control the truth getting out and exposing it?

I personally am very sorry for those who have lost their family members but if they lost their family members then why if they are claiming their healing faith? I personally would like answers to it and as far as exposing Paula White? Why wouldn't I? Do I want people deceived by her? Please dear GOD no. I pray she gets her life on track.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[probinson]

I posted this topic for a very good reason. There is no daughter that belongs to Paula White that died so why debate!
Someone (heron? habeas? I don't recall...) found that information for us in the other thread, and then I pointed out that it was Paula White's step-daughter, to which I was told "what's the differnce", much like you're being told here.

It's pretty obvious that most people really don't care about Paula White, or her step-daughter in that thread. It's just more of the same...

[JimfromOhio]

Someone (heron? habeas? I don't recall...) found that information for us in the other thread, and then I pointed out that it was Paula White's step-daughter, to which I was told "what's the differnce", much like you're being told here.

It's pretty obvious that most people really don't care about Paula White, or her step-daughter in that thread. It's just more of the same...
Step-daughter is still a daughter just as the same as we are children of God.

[probinson]

Step-daughter is still a daughter just as the same as we are children of God.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/missingthepoint.png

[JimfromOhio]

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/missingthepoint.png

I can see that you don't want to get serious about this. Just say so.

[NewSong]

Someone (heron? habeas? I don't recall...) found that information for us in the other thread, and then I pointed out that it was Paula White's step-daughter, to which I was told "what's the differnce", much like you're being told here.

It's pretty obvious that most people really don't care about Paula White, or her step-daughter in that thread. It's just more of the same...

Someone tried to tell me that and I didn't read the other thread all the way through when I seen what it was``~ Anyway, I got it now!!!! Won't do that again right away and if I do set me straight again.

[Jimbeaux]

*****
It's pretty obvious that most people really don't care about Paula White, or her step-daughter in that thread. It's just more of the same...

Sure I care about Paula White and anyone else who is teaching God’s Word. But that does not lighten the fact that she needs to do it with integrity. If she doesn’t, we can either ignore it or point it out. For the sake of the rest of us, I think we are required to “mark those who cause divisions among you” (Romans 16.17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=16&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)).

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[~RENEE~]

For the sake of the rest of us, I think we are required to “mark those who cause divisions among you” (Romans 16.17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=16&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)).Yep I think it causes alot of division when threads are posted to tell others how wrong they are because they line up with our religion. Don't you?

[mont974x4]

NASB
Eph 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.


In order to attain such unity and maturity we must discuss what is being taught and ensure that false teachings, and false teachers, are exposed.

[JimfromOhio]

Yep I think it causes alot of division when threads are posted to tell others how wrong they are because they line up with our religion. Don't you?

All beliefs about Salvation are problematic. I will always remember C.S. Lewis' quote: "You never know how much you really believe anything until truth or falsehood becomes a matter of life and death to you."

[ImmersionX]

Another false fronter goes down as a sham. Whatta shame.

[map4]

Another false fronter goes down as a sham. Whatta shame.

hmmm..in the wicca thread about the lady stabbing her foot you said you were praying for her and 'shame on everyone' for laughing and making fun of her.

Your're not 'making fun' and 'laughing' at Paula White, are you?

[mont974x4]

nope, I haven't seen anyone say anything about wanting this to happen or being happy that her step daughter died.