Another Word of Faith Preacher's Doctrine

[JimfromOhio]

Dr Fred Price communicates one of the more sickening beliefs of the Word-Faith teachers which shocks even those with a mild amount of common sense. He says, "How can you glorify God in your body, when it doesn't function right?....What makes you think the Holy Ghost wants to live inside of a body where He can't see out through the windows, and He can't hear out the ears?" and followed by exuberant applause and approval from his congregation ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605).

Would any of those who are disabled would attend HIS church and hear Dr. Price's version of the Gospel? This insulting and insensitive comment regarding the handicapped and crippled among us stirs up anger in even the most hardened of consciences.

I wonder what Dr Price would say about Apostle Paul who was suffering from sickness yet still pursued God's objectives. If he was sick in Sidon, you can imagine what he must have felt like on board ship. He had been fourteen days without food, fighting the storm, yet he never quit. And that doesn't count his other shipwrecks and hardships (2 Cor. 11:24-33).

[Jere209]

Dr Fred Price communicates one of the more sickening beliefs of the Word-Faith teachers which shocks even those with a mild amount of common sense. He says, "How can you glorify God in your body, when it doesn't function right?....What makes you think the Holy Ghost wants to live inside of a body where He can't see out through the windows, and He can't hear out the ears?" and followed by exuberant applause and approval from his congregation ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605).

Would any of those who are disabled would attend HIS church and hear Dr. Price's version of the Gospel? This insulting and insensitive comment regarding the handicapped and crippled among us stirs up anger in even the most hardened of consciences.

I wonder what Dr Price would say about Apostle Paul who was suffering from sickness yet still pursued God's objectives. If he was sick in Sidon, you can imagine what he must have felt like on board ship. He had been fourteen days without food, fighting the storm, yet he never quit. And that doesn't count his other shipwrecks and hardships (2 Cor. 11:24-33).

Jim,
In reading this before I even got to your comments, I did not get the impression he was talking about physical ailments at all, but more like spiritual. How many times has it been written and spoken to others about their spiritual condition of their bodies? I would say this is not about physical at all.
but, then, that's just my thoughts...

[JimfromOhio]

Jim,
In reading this before I even got to your comments, I did not get the impression he was talking about physical ailments at all, but more like spiritual. How many times has it been written and spoken to others about their spiritual condition of their bodies? I would say this is not about physical at all.
but, then, that's just my thoughts...
Get the tape and listen for yourself. You can get it through Fred's website.

[Jere209]

Get the tape and listen for yourself. You can get it through Fred's website.

If it says the same thing you just quoted I don't need to get the tape.
Why would you think it's physical??:confused:

[pinetree]

If it says the same thing you just quoted I don't need to get the tape.
Why would you think it's physical??:confused:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/TheKen08/Misc%20Pics/head_banging.gif

It is quite obvious it is the physical body.

[JimfromOhio]

If it says the same thing you just quoted I don't need to get the tape.
Why would you think it's physical??:confused:
I have researched after I fell into Word of Faith for short period. I studied so I know what kind of teachings are out there. You don't have to take my word for it, do what I do, research and allow God to guide you to the truth as you research. :wave:

[Ajax 777]

Why would you think it's physical??:confused:

I think because, in light of how he had already referenced poor eyesight and poor hearing,
and the name of the sermon tape is ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605)...
it's a safe assumption he is talking about physical infirmities.

Why would you presume he wasn't? :sigh:

[pinetree]

I think because, in light of how he had already referenced poor eyesight and poor hearing,
and the name of the sermon tape is ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605)...
it's a safe assumption he is talking about physical infirmities.

Why would you presume he wasn't? :sigh:
i just wanted to scare ya bro...;)

we agree on something here..:o:D^_^

[Jere209]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/TheKen08/Misc%20Pics/head_banging.gif

It is quite obvious it is the physical body.

Thanks for making me feel quite ignorant Pinetree. :thumbsup:
It is NOT obvious to me.
Sickness can also be spiritually, not just physically.

[Jere209]

I think because, in light of how he had already referenced poor eyesight and poor hearing,
and the name of the sermon tape is ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605)...
it's a safe assumption he is talking about physical infirmities.

Why would you presume he wasn't? :sigh:

Had a response here, but what's the use..

[Jere209]

I have researched after I fell into Word of Faith for short period. I studied so I know what kind of teachings are out there. You don't have to take my word for it, do what I do, research and allow God to guide you to the truth as you research. :wave:

Are you assuming I have not studied what's out there?? I do research, I do study, and for the record, I do have a little bit of smarts.

But, it's obvious I'm out of my league here. Better go do some research and study some more..:wave:

[JimfromOhio]

Are you assuming I have not studied what's out there?? I do research, I do study, and for the record, I do have a little bit of smarts.

But, it's obvious I'm out of my league here. Better go do some research and study some more..:wave:
Sorry about that and yes I did assumed but only replying to your post and that's my only assumption becaues you were assuming Fred something else. You are not sure. Research is part of our discernment responsibility and being careful not to be gullible with someone's teachings. :wave:

[~RENEE~]

Dr Fred Price communicates one of the more sickening beliefs of the Word-Faith teachers which shocks even those with a mild amount of common sense. He says, "How can you glorify God in your body, when it doesn't function right?....What makes you think the Holy Ghost wants to live inside of a body where He can't see out through the windows, and He can't hear out the ears?" and followed by exuberant applause and approval from his congregation ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605).
This is what you call the far extreme and it is wrong. Not all WOF believe this. Thank God.

[Ajax 777]

Sickness can also be spiritually, not just physically.

And tell me, how does a man understand
spiritual sickness as it pertains to blindness,
or deafness?

These conditions when spoken of "spiritually"
in Scripture were generally used to refer to the
focus and perceptiveness of one's heart,
and had nothing to do with the Lord's desire to dwell in us.

Even from that perspective, though, Jere, it is no less offensive:
for His Word tells us that He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us;
so why would He then deny Himself what Scripture tells us He jealously desires?
If Dr. Price meant spiritual sickness, it would STILL constitute errant and false doctrine.

[JimfromOhio]

This is what you call the far extreme and it is wrong. Not all WOF believe this. Thank God. Yes, I do agree this is one of the most extreme WOF doctrine and Dr Fred Price is clearly a Word of Faith preacher. I have heard similar from other preachers but NOT as extreme.

[Jere209]

Sorry about that and yes I did assumed but only replying to your post and that's my only assumption becaues you were assuming Fred something else. You are not sure. Research is part of our discernment responsibility and being careful not to be gullible with someone's teachings. :wave:
Thank you for acknowledging that. I appreciate it.
But, you're wrong about me assuming Fred Price's teaching. I was merely questioning why you thought it was physical when there are many references in scripture that deals with our spiritual conditions being "sick". Eyes that cannot be seen through could very well be the windows to our souls that have become blackened and tarnished by the harshness of this world, or because of our lack of letting our hearts be pliable in the hand of God. Ears that cannot be heard from could also be taken to mean that we cannot spiritually discern the voice of God correctly due to again, our lack of listening with our spirits to what He is saying.
So, while I may not have listened to the tape, from what you quoted there, one could question whether it is spiritual or physical.
One also should not assume another does not operate in the gift of being spiritually discerning.

and just to clarify something.
If this is dealing with physical, then it is wrong, and should not be taught. I do not agree with it.
Jere

[JimfromOhio]

Well... going to bed. Church tomorrow morning. I will probably be back tomorrow afternoon or tomorrow night. Nighty Night:wave:

[dkbwarrior]

Would any of those who are disabled would attend HIS church and hear Dr. Price's version of the Gospel?


Actually, he has a whole section for the hearing impaired, with sign language real time interpretation. You have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about.

Other that that, I will stick to the good point made by another recently:

But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
-2 Timothy 2.23

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.
-Proverbs 26.4

Peace...

[JimfromOhio]

Actually, he has a whole section for the hearing impaired, with sign language real time interpretation. You have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about.

Other that that, I will stick to the good point made by another recently:

But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
-2 Timothy 2.23

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.
-Proverbs 26.4

Peace...



Yeah I know, Deaf world is a SMALL world and yes some (actually many) of them got offended big time. The news of this message have spread quickly after the service within the deaf community which includes nationwide. :doh:

[pinetree]

Thanks for making me feel quite ignorant Pinetree. :thumbsup:
It is NOT obvious to me.
Sickness can also be spiritually, not just physically.
ohhhh I was just fooling with ya.:blush:

[Faithful Love]

Actually, he has a whole section for the hearing impaired, with sign language real time interpretation. You have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about.

Other that that, I will stick to the good point made by another recently:

But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
-2 Timothy 2.23

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.
-Proverbs 26.4

Peace...


Here's another:


Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matthew 7:5

[dkbwarrior]

Actually, he has a whole section for the hearing impaired, with sign language real time interpretation. You have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about.

Other that that, I will stick to the good point made by another recently:

But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
-2 Timothy 2.23

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.
-Proverbs 26.4

Peace...

Ohhh, I forgot to mention, he has a wheelchair section too.

Peace...

[JimfromOhio]

Ohhh, I forgot to mention, he has a wheelchair section too.

Peace...
I asked some deaf how other disabled reacted, they said, "some walked out shamed and we joined them walking out".

[pinetree]

Ohhh, I forgot to mention, he has a wheelchair section too.

Peace...
McDonalds has wheelchair ramps too,whats you silly point.

[JimfromOhio]

I am involved in many disabled communities and I have heard stories. You be amazed how many disabled people dislike Christians because they think WOF are like all other Christians. Sometime I had to take the time to explain that WOF are not like other Christians.

[pinetree]

I am involved in many disabled communities and I have heard stories. You be amazed how many disabled people dislike Christians because they think WOF are like all other Christians. Sometime I had to take the time to explain that WOF are not like other Christians.
Price's comments just shows you the lack of compassion and mercy this doctrine can have.

The Lord's attitude was the direct opposite to his. Can you imagine the Lord saying that. No way. The Lord would have rebuked Price vehemently:preach:

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I think because, in light of how he had already referenced poor eyesight and poor hearing,
and the name of the sermon tape is ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605)...
it's a safe assumption he is talking about physical infirmities.

Why would you presume he wasn't? :sigh:

i just wanted to scare ya bro...;)

we agree on something here..:o:D^_^

:wave: :thumbsup:
be afraid ... be very afraid!!! :D ^_^

[pinetree]

:wave: :thumbsup:
be afraid ... be very afraid!!! :D ^_^
:):)

[forward_observer]

Dr Fred Price communicates one of the more sickening beliefs of the Word-Faith teachers which shocks even those with a mild amount of common sense. He says, "How can you glorify God in your body, when it doesn't function right?....What makes you think the Holy Ghost wants to live inside of a body where He can't see out through the windows, and He can't hear out the ears?" and followed by exuberant applause and approval from his congregation ("Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605).

Would any of those who are disabled would attend HIS church and hear Dr. Price's version of the Gospel? This insulting and insensitive comment regarding the handicapped and crippled among us stirs up anger in even the most hardened of consciences.

I wonder what Dr Price would say about Apostle Paul who was suffering from sickness yet still pursued God's objectives. If he was sick in Sidon, you can imagine what he must have felt like on board ship. He had been fourteen days without food, fighting the storm, yet he never quit. And that doesn't count his other shipwrecks and hardships (2 Cor. 11:24-33).
Never hear him say that. Have heard some real good sermons from him and his son. Sometime offense is something a person takes rather than something someone gives.

[dkbwarrior]

McDonalds has wheelchair ramps too,whats you silly point.

Jim inferred that disabled people wouldn't go to Fred Prices church. My point was that his inference is false. Apparently those that go to his church don't interpret the statement in the same light as someone who spends all their time and energy day after day trying to find fault with WOF.

I've listened to hundreds of hours of Fred Price sermons. My judgement of the statement is that he was using a certain amount of hyperbole to make a point. That point being that God is not glorified by sickness. The only one who is glorified by sickness and disease is their author, satan.

Of course, that is not to say, that one who is currently sick and/or disabled cannot glorify God in that state, but the sickness or disability itself is not glorifying to God. This would only offend those who identify with their sickness and disability as a part of themselves, and cannot separate the sickness or disability from the person.

As in my own case, the disease that I was diagnosed with in 1990 brings no glory to God, but the fact that I trust God and believe in His promise of healing in spite of the circumstance while waiting for the manifestation of His promise does.

Peace...

[pinetree]

nevermind.:)

[Jimbeaux]

Jim,
In reading this before I even got to your comments, I did not get the impression he was talking about physical ailments at all, but more like spiritual. How many times has it been written and spoken to others about their spiritual condition of their bodies? I would say this is not about physical at all.
but, then, that's just my thoughts...

What do you mean by “the spiritual condition of the body”? The body has spiritual conditions? :scratch: In my world the body is just a physical mechanism, the machinery with which we function in the physical universe. Saying “the spiritual condition of the body” is like saying the spiritual condition of a vacuum cleaner or television set.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Jere209]

What do you mean by “the spiritual condition of the body”? The body has spiritual conditions? :scratch: In my world the body is just a physical mechanism, the machinery with which we function in the physical universe. Saying “the spiritual condition of the body” is like saying the spiritual condition of a vacuum cleaner or television set.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain



:doh:
I'm not sure what world you are living in :scratch:, but yep, my body has a spiritual condition. :P

[Faithful Love]

Sometime offense is something a person takes rather than something someone gives.



A big ditto to you!:thumbsup:

[GreatistheLord]

Yes, I do agree this is one of the most extreme WOF doctrine and Dr Fred Price is clearly a Word of Faith preacher. I have heard similar from other preachers but NOT as extreme.

I don't think you will find anyone here who would stand by the quotes you have presented. I also find it very difficult to believe that he actually said it, and meant it that way.
I don't know his ministry, but let's hope he doesn't make a habit of extremely insensitive and offensive comments.

[JimfromOhio]

:doh:
I'm not sure what world you are living in :scratch:, but yep, my body has a spiritual condition. :P

Yes, everyone has a spiritual condition according to our use of God's grace as we are Spirit-Filled. If we didn't feel the conviction and didn't have the motivation to change from "within", then we should be concerned whether we are truly saved or not. "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." God uses suffering to reveal our spiritual condition. In the midst of the sufferings, what kind of Christian do you see yourself? God answers not by removing the pain, because the pain was productive, rather God gave Grace to endure. In this life it is inevitable and it is useful because it produces the evidence of your true spiritual condition, humility and intimacy with God and allows God to put Himself on display in His grace.

Dr Fred was not talking about spiritual disabilities but rather physical abilities of believers. I believe as Christians that the church must remove physical, emotional and spiritual barriers in order to bring in people who are suffering with disabilities. Including any such teachings that are not biblical. We live in a world which places great emphasis on beauty, wealth and power. People with disabilities are often a symbol of the opposite – they struggle with physical or mental imperfection, powerlessness and often poverty. This only adds to the stigma which isolates them, separating them from the mainstream of life. Discrimination is a problem faced by disabled people and their families around the world. However, James 2:1-4, 9 reminds Christians “...don't show favouritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?... But if you show favouritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.”

Like I said, I am involved in many Christian disabilities communities and I have heard many stories from their experiences from each denominations they visited. Many churches are wonderful while some are not so wonderful. I only mention WOF because from what I have heard, this group is one of the worst that people with disabilities faced over the years.

[RevKidd]

There is actually more to that entire quote... Which makes it even worse..

“ ... how can you glorify God in your body, when it doesn't function right? How can you glorify God? How can He get glory when your body doesn't even work? ... What makes you think the Holy Ghost wants to live inside a body where He can't see out through the windows and He can't hear with the ears? What makes you think the Holy Spirit wants to live inside of a physical body where the limbs and the organs and the cells do not function right? ... And what makes you think He wants to live in a temple where He can't see out of the eyes, and He can't walk with the feet, and He can't move with the hand? ... The only eyes that he has that are in the earth realm are the eyes that are in the body. If He can't see out of them then God's gonna be limited he's not going to be helped...” applause (Frederick K.C. Price, “Is God Glorified Through Sickness?” (Los Angeles: Crenshaw Christian Center, n.d.), audiotape #FP605)

This is a total abomination to scripture and proper preaching and teaching of scripture. To say that God has no eyes in this realm except for our own physical eyes takes away the omnipresent quality of God. Duh... Anyone who defends this heretic propaganda is no better IMO.