Nurse 'gave wrong woman abortion drug'

[Till]

Just read this in the newspaper:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2307420/Nurse-%27gave-wrong-woman-abortion-drug%27.html


Another life taken and this time even withouth the mother willing it (yet). May God have mercy on us for allowing this to happen.

[porterross]

:cry:God help us.

The stink of it is, those who sanction this slaughter of helpless, human life are the same lot who criticize the penal system, claiming that treatment of criminals is the measure by which societies are judged. My simple mind just doesn't get it.

[RadMan]

Paper's can editorialize if someone is pro-life but when it cames to this article is just sounds like a "mistake". More like a mistake that kills. No respect for life at all.

[Till]

The stink of it is, those who sanction this slaughter of helpless, human life are the same lot who criticize the penal system, claiming that treatment of criminals is the measure by which societies are judged. My simple mind just doesn't get it.

What do you mean?

[PreachersWife2004]

Till, what I've found is that those who are for abortion and the murder of babies are mostly the same people who want conditions in prisons to be par with those on a resort. They cry for the rights of prisoners, but don't seem to have a voice for the unborn.

Makes me sick, to be honest.

[PreachersWife2004]

Just read this in the newspaper:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2307420/Nurse-%27gave-wrong-woman-abortion-drug%27.html


Another life taken and this time even withouth the mother willing it (yet). May God have mercy on us for allowing this to happen.

And she's still allowed to practice? That's just ridiculous. If I were the woman that she gave the drug to, I'd sue her from here to kingdom come and have her charged with murder.

Problem is, what I gather from the article tells me that the woman was there for consult for an abortion. She just hadn't consented yet, and maybe she wasn't going to...

[Till]

Till, what I've found is that those who are for abortion and the murder of babies are mostly the same people who want conditions in prisons to be par with those on a resort. They cry for the rights of prisoners, but don't seem to have a voice for the unborn.

Makes me sick, to be honest.

Ok, well I guess this is an American thing. I wouldn't even know any group apart from the Quakers that is working on prison reforms. I guess prisons over here are quite alright but frankly I do not know. I have seen a documentaty on BBC once and it did not seem unhuman. There are of course many countries in the world where prisons are hell and prisoners are exposed to violence and torture. I would see working towards changing conditions in these places a godly course and pro life issue and would not want to see this as opposed to being against abortion. To the contrary I feel that a pro life attitude shows at its finest and is most convincing where it is consistent and is opposing all attacks on human life and its sanctity.

Guess I have to become Catholic then.

[Till]

And she's still allowed to practice? That's just ridiculous. If I were the woman that she gave the drug to, I'd sue her from here to kingdom come and have her charged with murder.

Problem is, what I gather from the article tells me that the woman was there for consult for an abortion. She just hadn't consented yet, and maybe she wasn't going to...

That is the point. That is why I wrote "(yet)" . But business did she have there? Had she not considered an abortion and visited that clinic it would not have happened.



I guess it comes down to:

No abortion clinics - no abortion by mistake.

[PreachersWife2004]

Ok, well I guess this is an American thing. I wouldn't even know any group apart from the Quakers that is working on prison reforms. I guess prisons over here are quite alright but frankly I do not know. I have seen a documentaty on BBC once and it did not seem unhuman. There are of course many countries in the world where prisons are hell and prisoners are exposed to violence and torture. I would see working towards changing conditions in these places a godly course and pro life issue and would not want to see this as opposed to being against abortion. To the contrary I feel that a pro life attitude shows at its finest and is most convincing where it is consistent and is opposing all attacks on human life and its sanctity.

Guess I have to become Catholic then.

I think we're talking apples and oranges here. Here in the US, prisons are pretty posh already. But the same people who can't muster up a voice for the unborn are the same ones lobbying for more TV privileges or more conjugal visits for prisoners. Some of these people who care nothing about the slaughter of unborn babies cry for the prisoners who are in solitary confinement.

[RadMan]

Ok, well I guess this is an American thing. I wouldn't even know any group apart from the Quakers that is working on prison reforms. I guess prisons over here are quite alright but frankly I do not know. I have seen a documentaty on BBC once and it did not seem unhuman. There are of course many countries in the world where prisons are hell and prisoners are exposed to violence and torture. I would see working towards changing conditions in these places a godly course and pro life issue and would not want to see this as opposed to being against abortion. To the contrary I feel that a pro life attitude shows at its finest and is most convincing where it is consistent and is opposing all attacks on human life and its sanctity.

Guess I have to become Catholic then.Here's one of your new prison in the UK. Some one emailed me this. Don't know where it's at since they didn't say. This is just some of the pics of this posh "resort".





http://mail.google.com/a/osageconnect.net/?ui=2&ik=29dc8dce31&attid=0.2&disp=emb&view=att&th=11b36597969cae13


http://mail.google.com/a/osageconnect.net/?ui=2&ik=29dc8dce31&attid=0.8&disp=emb&view=att&th=11b36597969cae13

http://mail.google.com/a/osageconnect.net/?ui=2&ik=29dc8dce31&attid=0.7&disp=emb&view=att&th=11b36597969cae13

http://mail.google.com/a/osageconnect.net/?ui=2&ik=29dc8dce31&attid=0.10&disp=emb&view=att&th=11b36597969cae13

[PreachersWife2004]

LINK (http://www.hoax-slayer.com/82-9.shtml) to the email on one of those snopes sites called hoax-slayer or something. The pics are accurate but the location isn't apparently.

PS Rad, I couldn't see the pics, I just did a google search to see if I could find what you're talking about.

[RadMan]

hmmm..OK well it's still an impressive prison.

[PreachersWife2004]

I had to kinda giggle because the furniture looks like IKEA furniture.


Back to the topic, though, I still can't believe this nurse is allowed to continue to practice. If this happened here in the states, we'd at the very least suspend the doctor/nurse if they did something like this, if not pull their license completely.

[Xpycoctomos]

terrible... the most terrible thing I have read in a long time. Lord have mercy.

[Radiata]

I had to kinda giggle because the furniture looks like IKEA furniture.


Back to the topic, though, I still can't believe this nurse is allowed to continue to practice. If this happened here in the states, we'd at the very least suspend the doctor/nurse if they did something like this, if not pull their license completely.
You are only part right. Does anyone here know the top 10 causes of death? Of course you have heart disease and cancer at the top of the list, but way up there at number 5 is medical error. As many as 98,000 people die every year due to medical malpractice. And that's not limited to other countries than the U.S. Even though we have the most advanced and extensive medical system in the world, we do not have any system in place to prevent error. This is due to many reasons. Particularly, the fact that confidentiality is so extensive that no one is allowed to learn from other people's mistakes, there is no incentive to improve, we have a decentralized and fragmented health care delivery system, processes of licensure and accreditation have focused only limited attention on the prevention of medical errors, the medical liability system is perceived as a serious impediment to systematic efforts to uncover and learn from errors, and most third party health care providers don't have the means to make reducing errors a priority.

I took a medical laboratory science class last semester. We had an entire lecture on medical errors. How many times do you hear of medical personnel getting fired? Compare that with the amount of deaths every year due to error and you get an idea of how many times they punish people for their mistakes.

[LutheranMafia]

Ok, well I guess this is an American thing. I wouldn't even know any group apart from the Quakers that is working on prison reforms. I guess prisons over here are quite alright but frankly I do not know. I have seen a documentary on BBC once and it did not seem inhuman. There are of course many countries in the world where prisons are hell and prisoners are exposed to violence and torture.The issue is very complex in the US because of the diversity of both population and governmental bodies in charge. Jails are run by city governments while prisons are run mostly by the state governments; the federal government only has a small number of prisons. Getting locked up in middle America where most Lutherans are would be a walk in the park compared to getting arrested in cities like LA or NY where the main threat is gang violence and not fear of the guards. In those areas there is a greater problem with recidivism and instead of serving as “correctional facilities” poorly run jails and prisons actually become training grounds for young criminals. But there is only so much you can do in areas where the main concern is simply preventing prisoners from killing each other.


Guess I have to become Catholic then.Say, "Hail Mary" three times and I'm sure you'll feel better soon. :D

[RadMan]

You are only part right. Does anyone here know the top 10 causes of death? Of course you have heart disease and cancer at the top of the list, but way up there at number 5 is medical error. As many as 98,000 people die every year due to medical malpractice. And that's not limited to other countries than the U.S. Even though we have the most advanced and extensive medical system in the world, we do not have any system in place to prevent error. This is due to many reasons. Particularly, the fact that confidentiality is so extensive that no one is allowed to learn from other people's mistakes, there is no incentive to improve, we have a decentralized and fragmented health care delivery system, processes of licensure and accreditation have focused only limited attention on the prevention of medical errors, the medical liability system is perceived as a serious impediment to systematic efforts to uncover and learn from errors, and most third party health care providers don't have the means to make reducing errors a priority.

I took a medical laboratory science class last semester. We had an entire lecture on medical errors. How many times do you hear of medical personnel getting fired? Compare that with the amount of deaths every year due to error and you get an idea of how many times they punish people for their mistakes.That has been a problem for a long time. Many of the miscalculations are with anesthetics. I wasn't fully anesthetized on an operating table and was paralyzed but fully awake when they started to operate on me one time. All I could do was scream inside my head. I finally went into shock and they realized their mistake because the monitors went crazy. If they over anesthetize they just bury their problems with some vague excuse

[Flipper]

Then you have this little thing called "tort reform" that makes it almost impossible to bring a med-mal lawsuit, unless you have lifetime expenses into the millons due to the error, and then even if you can then bring the suit, damages are capped at much less than that.

Don't even think about being able to get punitives, not that they ever were easy to get before tort reform (never were)...

[Melethiel]

Then you have this little thing called "tort reform" that makes it almost impossible to bring a med-mal lawsuit, unless you have lifetime expenses into the millons due to the error, and then even if you can then bring the suit, damages are capped at much less than that.

Don't even think about being able to get punitives, not that they ever were easy to get before tort reform (never were)...
Of course, on the other side is the fact that for so many people are willing to call the lawyer for the slightest mistake, and doctors are constantly walking on eggshells and running expensive and possibly unnecessary tests just to cover their butt. There's got to be a middle line between being able to get compensation for real damages due to malpractice, and being lawyer-happy.

[Flipper]

Of course, on the other side is the fact that for so many people are willing to call the lawyer for the slightest mistake, and doctors are constantly walking on eggshells and running expensive and possibly unnecessary tests just to cover their butt. There's got to be a middle line between being able to get compensation for real damages due to malpractice, and being lawyer-happy.


That's the misconception of Medical-Malpractice cases. There are all these parameters that have always been in place, including a requirement of having a doctor write a report showing how the defendant doctor screwed up before even filing suit - and doctors tend to not want to report on their own, so it's got to be bad. Further, it has always had one of the shortest statute of limitations of any type of case. In Missouri you have two years, and I think some other states only have one - it's been like that before tort reform. Med Mal lawyers, generally, turn down 98% of what walks in the door, and that's even before the rules changed. It's one of the toughest areas of law for plaintiff attorneys to get into because when you are working on a contingent fee - and by law those kinds of cases are charged that way - it's hard to make money when 98% of what walks in the door isn't suit-worthy.

Med Mal cases are also expensive. The attorney has to pay for that doctor to give an opinion, and they have to pay for additional doctors, rehab, and economist experts to assist in making their case. They can't afford to take a case unless they think something really wrong happened, because experts are not cheap by any stretch.

Medical Malpractice suits have actually gone down significanly in the past 20 years - 35% in Missouri alone, and I believe the rest of the states are similar. However, malpractice insurance rates that the doctors have to pay keep going up. No one wants to go after or blame the insurance industry. Wonder why. How about the defense attorneys that bilk the insurance companies for upwards of millions because they get to charge their clients, the insurance companies, by the hour. I worked for defense attorneys at one time - I know how to bill time for just about anything, and defense attorneys make stalling cases into an art form.

Trust me, lawyers have their issues - they REALLY have their issues - but this isn't one of them. Unfortunately the media and politicians made lawyers the scapegoats on this one.

You might come back to say that there are lawyers that will file anything that walks in their door. Oh yes there are (and they seem to typically advertise on TV), but they are few and far between, and the laws should be geared toward those who really have a case, and not towards those that don't.

I tell people that even if I hate my job at times, I can at least sleep at night working for the plaintiff attorneys I work for. I had a hard time sleeping at night when I worked for defense attorneys. If I lose sleep anymore, it isn't becaue it's what the attorneys did or didn't do, it's because there's something they wanted to do and they can't because the new laws tied their hands (that's in general - I work on very few med mal cases - like once in a blue moon).

[Zecryphon]

That is the point. That is why I wrote "(yet)" . But business did she have there? Had she not considered an abortion and visited that clinic it would not have happened.



I guess it comes down to:

No abortion clinics - no abortion by mistake.

But getting rid of the clinics will not end abortion. It will greatly reduce the numbers of abortions, but people will still try to abort their babies, like they did before abortion was legal. The way to end abortion once and for all is education, not legislation.

[Till]

But getting rid of the clinics will not end abortion. It will greatly reduce the numbers of abortions, but people will still try to abort their babies, like they did before abortion was legal. The way to end abortion once and for all is education, not legislation.

I guess there are many different things that could be done to end or let us say rather limit the extent of abortions. Pratical help for women in need is of course one. Education as well. But I feel that legislation is the most important aspect. Not that it seems realistic in the moment that abortion would become illegal in either North America or Europe, but legislation is the key. People's attitudes are influenced by what is legal and what is not. And if something becomes legal people just get used to it.

There is no legal abortion in Ireland. Neither in the Republic of Ireland nor in British Northern Ireland. Of course women from Ireland can always go to England for an abortion but the fact is that abortion is much less accepted by the Irish people than anwhere else in Europe.