My walk through the bible.

[Radiata]

It's finally time to make a commitment. I have been trying to read the whole bible for the longest time, but I always put it down after a little while. I am making this thread for the purpose of making myself held accountable to this cause. I must not forget quiet times, or zip through the passage without contemplating their meaning. I would ask all of you for help. If I go 2 days without updating this thread, I would like everyone to start yelling at me to stick to my commitment without fail.

Currently I am working for my second time through the book of Job. It has been at least 4 years since I last read this one and I don't remember much of the details except for the beginning and end. I went up to my pastor on two occasions asking which book I should read. The first time it was Jonah. But it's only 2 pages long! I was confused as to why he would suggest something like that to me. But now years later, I think I can understand why. He wanted to give someone young and stupid an easy book to read. Later on when I asked him again, he told me that Job would be a good one. I accepted and found out many interesting things in it.

Right now, I'm on chapter 25 and it's cool to see what great filosofers:) Job and his friends are. Here Bildad tries to correctly convince Job that there are none who are righteous before God, and therefore, Job would deserve the pain he is going through. But then we see in Chapter 26 Job's response that Bildad's words are irrelevant because he cannot know the true will of God.

Side note: I keep seeing on the bottom of the page every time death is mentioned saying that it's original hebrew meaning is sheol. Anyone wanna help me out with why this is always brought up?

continuing on, Job kind of does what he just says can't be done which is to describe God. Even though he says grandest comparisons are not accurate to show how great God is. He uses words like "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight." and "And these are but the outer fringe of His works; how faint the whisper we hear of him!"

As we continue on to Chapter 27, Job declares that the only end for the wicked is bitter destruction. He lists many things, and of these things are not things that have happened to him. Hidden in these words, Job was denying himself to be wicked to his friends. And furthermore, we see that Job is repeatedly asking for God to bring justice to him. Very interesting.

List of books and their status.

Genesis (Complete)
Exodus (Complete)
Leviticus (Complete)
Numbers (Complete)
Deuteronomy (Complete)
Joshua (Complete)
Judges (Complete)
Ruth (Complete)
1 Samuel (Complete)
2 Samuel (Complete)
1 Kings (Complete)
2 Kings (Complete)
1 Chronicles (Complete)
2 Chronicles (Complete)
Ezra (Complete)
Nehemiah (Complete)
Esther (Complete)
Job (Complete)
Psalms (In Progress)
Proverbs (Complete)
Ecclesiastes (Complete)
Song of Solomon (Complete)
Isaiah (In Progress)
Jeremiah (Incomplete)
Lamentations (Incomplete)
Ezekiel (Incomplete)
Daniel (Complete)
Hosea (Incomplete)
Joel (Incomplete)
Amos (Incomplete)
Obadiah (Incomplete)
Jonah (Complete)
Micah (Incomplete)
Nahum (Incomplete)
Habukkuk (Incomplete)
Zephania (Incomplete)
Haggai (Incomplete)
Zechariah (Incomplete)
Malachi (Complete)

Matthew (Complete)
Mark (Incomplete)
Luke (Complete)
John (Complete)
Acts (Complete)
Roman (Complete)
1 Corinthians (Complete)
2 Corinthians (Complete)
Galatians (Incomplete)
Ephesians (Incomplete)
Philippians (Incomplete)
Colossians (Incomplete)
1 Thessalonians (Complete)
2 Thessalonians (Incomplete)
1 Timothy (Incomplete)
2 Timothy (Incomplete)
Titus (Incomplete)
Philemon (Incomplete)
Hebrews (Incomplete)
James (Incomplete)
1 Peter (Incomplete)
2 Peter (Incomplete)
1 John (Incomplete)
2 John (Complete)
3 John (Incomplete)
Jude (Incomplete)
Revelations (Complete)

[LilLamb219]

Awesome!!! I thought about doing it again this year, but then, I generally have had a house filled with kids...and I only have one daughter so figure that one out ;) Too many distractions right now.

[LutheranMafia]

Right now, I'm on chapter 25 and it's cool to see what great filosofersfile:///C:/Users/mike/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif Job and his friends are. Here Bildad tries to correctly convince Job that there are none who are righteous before God, and therefore, Job would deserve the pain he is going through. But then we see in Chapter 26 Job's response that Bildad's words are irrelevant because he cannot know the true will of God.
Hidden within Bildad’s assertion that we are all sinners and deserve whatever fate we get from God is the implication that Job has committed some sin to bring this upon himself and that he should ask God for forgiveness. Job addresses this directly in verse 27:5, “I will never admit you are right, till I die…” He is not referring to Bildad’s overt assertion that none are righteous, but rather the hidden implication of Job’s culpability in his fate. Then Job goes on to describe the difference between the suffering of the righteous vs. the suffering of the Godless:

“8 For what hope has the godless when he is cut off,
when God takes away his life?
9 Does God listen to his cry
when distress comes upon him?
10 Will he find delight in the Almighty?
Will he call upon God at all times?”

[RadMan]

I'm not sure if a walk through the Bible in a determinant amount of time is helpful. It's not a novel to see if we can get through. It's the Word of God to be meditated on and prayed over for better insight thought the Holy Spirit. I think there are too many people that do this, like the reformed, that think that they will be better Christians just by "reading". It's almost as if they are doing it like the rosary and using it in an unconscious method or it effects them like osmosis and they absorb it just by reading quickly through it. Like increasing faith exponentially or doing penance.

just my 2 cents worth.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Congrats and blessings....

I've read the NT, cover to cover, probably twice now. But I've all the books EXCEPT Revelation, cover to cover, probably a dozen times (I tend to skim Revelation - looking for great lyrics for songs, it's FULL of them!).

The OT is an altogether different story for me. I've read Genesis probably 3 or 4 times, probably skimmed Exodus a couple of times times, I think I've read 1-2 Kings, 1-2 Chronicles cover to cover (I wouldn't promise it was cover to cover), probably not too carefully, as I have Job, Proverbs and (as every preteen boy has) Song of Solomon (LOL). But the rest of the OT I know primarily through being a Sunday Sunday junkie and now teacher - pretty selected "stories" here and there, and from whatever ends up being quoted in theology. I've TRIED to read the Prophets and the law books - and I rather quickly bog down.


I pray for God's richest blessings as you read His Word. It shall not return to Him void...



Thank you!


Pax!


- Josiah





.

[Radiata]

I'm not sure if a walk through the Bible in a determinant amount of time is helpful. It's not a novel to see if we can get through. It's the Word of God to be meditated on and prayed over for better insight thought the Holy Spirit. I think there are too many people that do this, like the reformed, that think that they will be better Christians just by "reading". It's almost as if they are doing it like the rosary and using it in an unconscious method or it effects them like osmosis and they absorb it just by reading quickly through it. Like increasing faith exponentially or doing penance.

just my 2 cents worth.
I agree. I don't plan to make this thread like one would summarize a novel. and it's not my intention to read it for the sake of reading it. I've got to stop studying theology. Just like my friend Ben says "All of the great theologians in history would never tell you to read their books instead of the bible." I don't think you mean to say that I shouldn't read it. But rather that this might not be a good way of doing so. Well I hate devotionals and any other way would just have me put it down again. This is just a way for me to be held accountable and finally get it finished. I am tired of being the only one on CF that hasn't read it.

And BTW, I read Genesis 3 times and Matthew 3 times. I plan to read the rest of the torah again because I don't remember much of it.

[Edial]

...

Right now, I'm on chapter 25 ...


You're on Chapter 25? When did you start reading it?

Questions on the prior chapters.

You know the beginning chapters with God and Satan.
What are your thoughts on it?

Chapter 16 ...

JOB 16:9 God assails me and tears me in his anger
and gnashes his teeth at me;
my opponent fastens on me his piercing eyes.
... and read the rest about arrows and such.

Job says that God assails him and gnashes teeth.

Yet we, through the NT, know God does not gnash teeth not uses arrows, Satan does.

What do you think is the plan of Satan concerning Job's belief of God?
(Recall the argument that was on the table, that Job would curse God).

How do you think Satan behaves in our lives today using this same tactic as in Job?

"Extra points" question ... :)
In the end God says that Job spoke of God what is right.

JOB 42:7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.

(Yet we know about gnashing teeth verse).
Is there a contradiction?
The answer is not complicated, but it will clarify most of the book of Job since many people think that whatever Job uttered about God is correct.


Side note: I keep seeing on the bottom of the page every time death is mentioned saying that it's original hebrew meaning is sheol. Anyone wanna help me out with why this is always brought up?
In Hebrew it is Sheol.
Sheol is the world of the departed dead.

It appears 8 times in Job and various English translations translate it differently. Yet in Hebrew it means a separate realm of the dead.

Comparison of all instances of Sheol (Strong's 7585) in Job and translations.

Reference NIV KJV NASB
7:9 grave grave Sheol
11:8 grave hell Sheol
14:13 grave grave Sheol
17:13 grave grave Sheol
17:16 death pit Sheol
21:13 grave grave Sheol
24:19 grave grave Sheol
26:6 death hell Sheol


As we continue on to Chapter 27, Job declares that the only end for the wicked is bitter destruction. He lists many things, and of these things are not things that have happened to him. Hidden in these words, Job was denying himself to be wicked to his friends. And furthermore, we see that Job is repeatedly asking for God to bring justice to him. Very interesting.
Very interesting indeed.
Job knows that God is very well aware what is happening to him and he knows that such a fate usually is reserved for the wicked.
So, he wants justice. Justice from whom? Isn't God "doing" this? Maybe God "made mistake"?

JOB 27:2 "As surely as God lives, who has denied me justice,
the Almighty, who has made me taste bitterness of soul,

JOB 27:6 I will maintain my righteousness and never let go of it;
my conscience will not reproach me as long as I live.

These two statements clash against each other with great noise.

Of course, we need to understand what is Job's understanding of righteousness is ...

Most of commentaries are very surfaced on Job.
As a matter of fact I do not know of any commentary that is really good on Job.

Book of Job is a big enigma for Christendom, ... yet once one starts off from a correct premise and proceeds very carefully and uses his NT knowledge of God that we have now, it starts gradually opening up like a mysterious treasure chest.

Most of the commentaries stumble in the first vew verses of Job.

One also needs to understand the meaning of the word "blameless" in Chapter 1.

Thanks, :)
Ed

[Radiata]

Here we see Job bringing his longest speech of the book. A whole 6 chapters. A couple interesting things caught my eye. Job names things that are justifiable ends to those who are wicked. Things like "his offspring will never have enough to eat." and "what he lays up the righteous will wear." He constantly defends what he believes in his heart that he is innocent, although he never claims to be sinless. (7:20, 9:20) We as Christians all know that we are sinners and deserve God's just punishment. However, the book of Job repeatedly says that Job was blameless, and that he didn't deserve what he was getting. He may be the best of people, but even the best are still born with original sin and living under Satan's reign. So how can he (1) be blameless and righteous, and (2) not deserve what he was getting? Even though there are far worse people than myself, it doesn't mean that I should be excluded from punishment. This is something that has been bugging me for a while.

Continuing on, (I wish I could remember the differences and distinct words of Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar) Job claims that Bildad's words came from himself and man's knowledge is worthless. He compares how man can find treasures in the earth but man cannot ever find knowledge. The only true knowledge is what we receive from God. In description, he says: "And He said to man, the fear of the Lord-that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding."(28:28) Job progresses with some poetry making a comparison for the next two chapters of how his life went before and after his downfall. He claims that everyone young and old respected him. But now their roles are reversed and they mock him.

Finishing up this section, Job says in chapter 31 that he has not only helped the sick, old, and fatherless, but that he has also avoided inward and outward sin. "I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl" (31:1) This is another example of how I don't understand how Job accomplished this. He claims to not be perfect, yet he also brings up many times that he has not committed any crime. It just doesn't make sense. If he wants to compare himself to man's standards, than he really isn't displaying any God-given knowledge is he? Job, the one with great wisdom, comparing himself with the wicked and proclaiming to be above them? God's knowledge says otherwise. "He who is without sin be the first to cast the stone." These stoners were no different then the woman caught in adultery. Job, however, does not seem to look at it like this.

That is all for today's update. Feel free to comment as I feel that we could have an extremely great thing going here if this thread was not only a report for my continued reading, but also turned into a bible study as well.

[Edial]

This is good work. :)
Here we see Job bringing his longest speech of the book. A whole 6 chapters. A couple interesting things caught my eye. Job names things that are justifiable ends to those who are wicked. Things like "his offspring will never have enough to eat." and "what he lays up the righteous will wear." He constantly defends what he believes in his heart that he is innocent, although he never claims to be sinless. (7:20, 9:20) We as Christians all know that we are sinners and deserve God's just punishment. However, the book of Job repeatedly says that Job was blameless, and that he didn't deserve what he was getting. He may be the best of people, but even the best are still born with original sin and living under Satan's reign. So how can he (1) be blameless and righteous, and (2) not deserve what he was getting? Even though there are far worse people than myself, it doesn't mean that I should be excluded from punishment. This is something that has been bugging me for a while. .
One comment.
Most if not all word study people agree that the word "blameless" in 1:1 and 1:8 is blamess "according to the Law". (Yes. Job was probably written prior to Moses' Law. The people from Uz apparently had a revelation from God concerning the Law of God).

"Blamess" in 1:1 was stated by the writer and in 1:8 by God.
Job was indeed blameless "according to the Law". He was the best man on earth.

Question: What do you think Satan was looking for when he was roaming to and fro the earth? And why?

JOB 1:6 One day the angelscame to present themselves before the LORD, and Satanalso came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
JOB 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

This conversation above appears to be a continuation of a previous conversation between God and Satan.

What do you think Satan was looking for?

(I have a personal opinion on this and it revolves around Gen.3:15).

Continuing on, (I wish I could remember the differences and distinct words of Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar) Job claims that Bildad's words came from himself and man's knowledge is worthless. He compares how man can find treasures in the earth but man cannot ever find knowledge. The only true knowledge is what we receive from God. In description, he says: "And He said to man, the fear of the Lord-that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding."(28:28) Job progresses with some poetry making a comparison for the next two chapters of how his life went before and after his downfall. He claims that everyone young and old respected him. But now their roles are reversed and they mock him.
Yes. And it bothered Job that people stopped respecting him.
Why do you think people stopped respecting him?
What do you think Job learned when they stopped respecting him?
What do you think we should learn from this?


Finishing up this section, Job says in chapter 31 that he has not only helped the sick, old, and fatherless, but that he has also avoided inward and outward sin. "I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl" (31:1) This is another example of how I don't understand how Job accomplished this.
Yes, He avoided inward sin because he looked ahead in the Law.
Even the Law of Moses had references to inward sin, although on a different topic ...
DT 10:16 Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer.
Apparently Job knew about dangers of lust and was avoiding any chance of falling into it.
Law, once properly understood could lead to personal betterment and Job apparently was very successful at this.
He claims to not be perfect, yet he also brings up many times that he has not committed any crime. It just doesn't make sense. If he wants to compare himself to man's standards, than he really isn't displaying any God-given knowledge is he? Job, the one with great wisdom, comparing himself with the wicked and proclaiming to be above them? God's knowledge says otherwise. "He who is without sin be the first to cast the stone." These stoners were no different then the woman caught in adultery. Job, however, does not seem to look at it like this.
We fortunately know the Gospel since we have NT.

Job's understanding concerning the Gospel however, is extremely vague.

He just knows this ...
JOB 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand upon the earth.

Good NT applications. :thumbsup:

Ed

[LutheranMafia]

Here we see Job bringing his longest speech of the book. A whole 6 chapters. A couple interesting things caught my eye. Job names things that are justifiable ends to those who are wicked. Things like "his offspring will never have enough to eat." and "what he lays up the righteous will wear." He constantly defends what he believes in his heart that he is innocent, although he never claims to be sinless. (7:20, 9:20) We as Christians all know that we are sinners and deserve God's just punishment. However, the book of Job repeatedly says that Job was blameless, and that he didn't deserve what he was getting. He may be the best of people, but even the best are still born with original sin and living under Satan's reign. So how can he (1) be blameless and righteous, and (2) not deserve what he was getting? Even though there are far worse people than myself, it doesn't mean that I should be excluded from punishment. This is something that has been bugging me for a while.
You have posed a false dichotomy where Job must either be utterly and completely sinless or deserving of punishment. The point is that Job suffered precisely because of his great strength of faith, not as a result of a lack of faith. The closer you get to the objective the more vigorously the enemy attacks. While sin can never be completely eradicated, if you do an especially good job of shunning evil then evil will seek you out, you can count on it. It turns the whole New Age idea of karma on its head, that the good deeds that reflect intense faith can actually lead to adversity, but Judeo-Christianity has always understood this, even before Jesus. In Jesus’ case the contrast is so obvious and stark that you hardly consider it, but that is the same sort of thing, Jesus was singled out for reprisal precisely because of the enormous strength of his faith.

[RadMan]

You have posed a false dichotomy where Job must either be utterly and completely sinless or deserving of punishment. The point is that Job suffered precisely because of his great strength of faith, not as a result of a lack of faith. The closer you get to the objective the more vigorously the enemy attacks. While sin can never be completely eradicated, if you do an especially good job of shunning evil then evil will seek you out, you can count on it. It turns the whole New Age idea of karma on its head, that the good deeds that reflect intense faith can actually lead to adversity, but Judeo-Christianity has always understood this, even before Jesus. In Jesus’ case the contrast is so obvious and stark that you hardly consider it, but that is the same sort of thing, Jesus was singled out for reprisal precisely because of the enormous strength of his faith.You've hit on something that Christians would rather hide under a rug than admit to. That is .........."through much tribulation yea shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven"..........quoted that from faulty memory. Because of beliefs we will be ridiculed and persecuted. It's happening all over the world in varying degrees all the way up to death. We want to be comfortable and have an easy life and things go smooth for us. What are we sacrificing for our comfortableness? We are soooo blessed with our situation and we don't appreciate it enough.

[Edial]

You have posed a false dichotomy where Job must either be utterly and completely sinless or deserving of punishment. The point is that Job suffered precisely because of his great strength of faith, not as a result of a lack of faith. The closer you get to the objective the more vigorously the enemy attacks. While sin can never be completely eradicated, if you do an especially good job of shunning evil then evil will seek you out, you can count on it. It turns the whole New Age idea of karma on its head, that the good deeds that reflect intense faith can actually lead to adversity, but Judeo-Christianity has always understood this, even before Jesus. In Jesus’ case the contrast is so obvious and stark that you hardly consider it, but that is the same sort of thing, Jesus was singled out for reprisal precisely because of the enormous strength of his faith.
You do have a point here and a good one.

However, here is an OT verse from Solomon.
How would you address this in the context of Job?

ECC 7:16 Do not be overrighteous,
neither be overwise--
why destroy yourself?
ECC 7:17 Do not be overwicked,
and do not be a fool--
why die before your time?

It is not a "trap", just a point of discussion. :)
Thanks, :)
Ed

[Radiata]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I finished Job today. I remember reading the ending of it a few times and it always gets me.

I laughed at the beginning of this passage. Elihu, the young one who kept silent the whole time finally speaks up and says his piece. But before he does, lets introduce him! Chapters 32, 33 are full of Elihu saying practically nothing at all. He essentially says I’ve waited my turn saying that the old and wise must talk first. But now that you are silent, it is my turn to speak. I am filled with the spirit… I am ready to talk… listen closely to what I have to say… I am like a wine sack about to burst… it’s on the tip of my tongue… here it comes… you had better be ready for it… I’m about to say it… LOL Job might as well have interrupted him and shouted, “Why do You torment me more?”

All 4 of Jobs friends have some truth in them, but they are all under false assumptions of Job. But then Elihu brings up another perspective. Job wasn’t suffering because of sin, he was sinning because of his suffering. He says that Job was becoming so arrogant by trying to justify himself with his good works that Job was sinning because of his pride.

Well anyway, lets skip to where God jumps in. He doesn’t actually answer any of Job’s questions. Instead God used Jobs own ignorance of higher things to reveal God’s precise order. If Job couldn’t understand the workings of God’s physical creations how could he possibly understand God’s mind and character?

Side note: In (38:36) it says that the Hebrew meaning of the word heart was unknown. Wait, what? Out of all the times in the bible that the word heart is mentioned, we don’t even know for certain that this is the right meaning for it? Clarification please.

Chapter 39: God asked Job several questions about animals in order to demonstrate how limited Job’s knowledge really was. Once Job found out that he could only look at things from his limited perspective he could really understand what God was telling him. And another thing…. DINOSAURS!!!! That’s right, during the time of the patriarchs, there must have still been dinosaurs around for Job to be able to recognize the behemoth. (40:15) “Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his lambs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God, yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.” My bible tries to pass this off as an elephant or hippo, but those both have very small tails. In fact, dinosaurs are the only thing that fits this description. I don’t want to turn this into an age of the earth, or creation vs evolution debate, so let it suffice to leave it at that.

Job finally realizes the differences between God and himself, and he eventually humbles himself before God, asking for forgiveness. But not forgiveness of past iniquities but questioning God’s sovereignty and justice. Finally, the curse surrounding Job is lifted and his given great wealth, health, and prosperity. Much greater than what he had before.

It’s late, and I’ve got work tomorrow. Night.

[BigNorsk]

From the NET:

Job 38:36 -
51 tn This verse is difficult because of the two words, טֻחוֹת (tukhot, rendered here "heart") and שֶׂכְוִי (sekhvi, here "mind"). They have been translated a number of ways: "meteor" and "celestial appearance"; the stars "Procyon" and "Sirius"; "inward part" and "mind"; even as birds, "ibis" and "cock." One expects them to have something to do with nature — clouds and the like. The RSV accordingly took them to mean "meteor" (from a verb "to wander") and "a celestial appearance." But these meanings are not well-attested.

[Radiata]

This will be brief.

Yesterday after work, I took a nap and then my brother was on the computer the rest of the night so I wasn't able to make an update.

Today, I was playing tennis until class which just ended meaning that I wont be able to make a big update.

Ok, I've started the Psalms. I've always thought of this book as the WHAT THE!?!?! 150 CHAPTERS!?!?! book. I felt that tackling it would take an enormous amount of effort.

Now that I'm reading it, I see it as just another book that wont take me long to read at all. That being said, I think that it will take longer to read per chapter than any other book as well. Even though most of the individual Psalms are shorter than the average chapter. The problem is, they just aren't holding my interest. By the looks of things so far, the Psalms are all the same. In one category, we have Psalms of praise exclaiming how great God is. In another category, we have Psalms of prayer. Many of them written during times of trouble for David. And they say "The wicked people are coming!" For some reason, I can't keep my focus on them and I would have to read a Psalm 3 times before I even get the gist of what it says. I guess the problem for me is that they rarely add any history or theology that I could learn from. The same form of worship is expressed far too much for it to keep my attention. When I get past that, I always find myself looking at how David describes his enemies. They are wicked, their mouths are an open grave, etc. and I say to myself, aren't we the same way? There are none who are righteous and David calls upon the Lord for help in order to kill the wicked? I know what they mean, but I don't like using the word 'wicked' for those who don't follow God.

I've got to go to bed. Night everyone.

[Edial]

This will be brief.

Yesterday after work, I took a nap and then my brother was on the computer the rest of the night so I wasn't able to make an update.

Today, I was playing tennis until class which just ended meaning that I wont be able to make a big update.

Ok, I've started the Psalms. I've always thought of this book as the WHAT THE!?!?! 150 CHAPTERS!?!?! book. I felt that tackling it would take an enormous amount of effort.

Now that I'm reading it, I see it as just another book that wont take me long to read at all. That being said, I think that it will take longer to read per chapter than any other book as well. Even though most of the individual Psalms are shorter than the average chapter. The problem is, they just aren't holding my interest. By the looks of things so far, the Psalms are all the same. In one category, we have Psalms of praise exclaiming how great God is. In another category, we have Psalms of prayer. Many of them written during times of trouble for David. And they say "The wicked people are coming!" For some reason, I can't keep my focus on them and I would have to read a Psalm 3 times before I even get the gist of what it says. I guess the problem for me is that they rarely add any history or theology that I could learn from. The same form of worship is expressed far too much for it to keep my attention. When I get past that, I always find myself looking at how David describes his enemies. They are wicked, their mouths are an open grave, etc. and I say to myself, aren't we the same way? There are none who are righteous and David calls upon the Lord for help in order to kill the wicked? I know what they mean, but I don't like using the word 'wicked' for those who don't follow God.

I've got to go to bed. Night everyone.
One suggestion.
You should reflect on what Rad said in this thread concerning meditating on the text.
There were also some questions in this thread that should hopefully prompt deeper reflection on the text.
You appear to look at the texts from a commentary perspective, which is good yet skims over some depth.

Although some comments were excellent.

Look at this text ...

PR 2:1 My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
PR 2:2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding,
PR 2:3 and if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
PR 2:4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
PR 2:5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD
and find the knowledge of God.

What does verse 4 telling you concerning reading the Bible?

Thanks, :)
Ed

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I invite people (especially new Christians or inquirers) to read the Bible in this order:

First John (I'd actually like them to read this twice before proceeding)
Gospel of John
Gospel of Luke
Acts
Romans

After that, they should read the rest of the NT. But I want them to get through those books - as a good intro to Christianity. IF I don't think they'll read that much, I "drop" Acts from the list.


Blessings as you read His Word. It shall not return to Him void.



Pax


- Josiah

[DaRev]

I normally have people start with the Gospel of John and then Romans. We've handed out info packets that included a small Gospel of John.

[Radiata]

One suggestion.
You should reflect on what Rad said in this thread concerning meditating on the text.
There were also some questions in this thread that should hopefully prompt deeper reflection on the text.
You appear to look at the texts from a commentary perspective, which is good yet skims over some depth.

Although some comments were excellent.

Look at this text ...

PR 2:1 My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
PR 2:2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding,
PR 2:3 and if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
PR 2:4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
PR 2:5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD
and find the knowledge of God.

What does verse 4 telling you concerning reading the Bible?

Thanks, :)
Ed
In meditating the text I would go into a study rather than a reading. During small group at school, we would take an entire hour on one chapter, or often times a half chapter. You can dive so deep into the text, and I love doing that with my friends. But often times being a multidenominational fellowship, they get the wrong ideas. Like one time during a study we went over the text that says you will show love to Me by following My commandments. They kept saying that it doesn't say that this is the only way to show love for God. I kept challenging them to name one way to show love to God that doesn't involve keeping His commandments. But I guess it's true that only Lutherans and Sith deal in absolutes.

About verse 4: I know all too well that you can find more truth and in the bible if you dig as if you would dig for buried treasure. During Chapter Focus week where I learned how to lead an inductive bible study, we were trained to look for repeated words, reading between lines of actions and words of characters, think in real life terms about what is being said or taught, establish the scene in your head and get a feel for what is going on, etc. During my readings, I only accomplish getting the scene in perspective which really isn't very possible in the Psalms.
I invite people (especially new Christians or inquirers) to read the Bible in this order:

First John (I'd actually like them to read this twice before proceeding)
Gospel of John
Gospel of Luke
Acts
Romans

After that, they should read the rest of the NT. But I want them to get through those books - as a good intro to Christianity. IF I don't think they'll read that much, I "drop" Acts from the list.


Blessings as you read His Word. It shall not return to Him void.



Pax


- Josiah

Thanks. But I've already read most of those, and I'm not exactly new to Christianity. I know the theme of most of the books, and when I read books that I haven't read before, it's almost like I have read them before. Probably from a life growing up in the church.

[Radiata]

I'm haven't given up yet. I just read another few. Chapter 13 is a Psalm of prayer from David about his struggling thoughts. David was the man after God's own heart, but he felt the pressure of his problems as much as anyone else. But instead of giving in to them, he always held fast to his faith.

Chapter 14 is another Psalm from David, and it again calls the atheist a fool and wicked. I wish that it would use a better term to distinguish them we have almost all the traits that are given to them. My cheater bible says: The true atheist is either foolish or wicked-foolish because he ignores the evidence that God exists or wicked because he refuses to live b God's truths. We become atheists in practice when we rely more on ourselves than on God. The fools mentioned here are aggressively perverse in their actions. To speak in direct defiance of God is utterly foolish according to the Bible. I wish this distinction was made in the actual text.

Chapter 15 is a Psalm whose type I haven't encountered yet. Instead of
a prayer or praise, this one actually sets guidelines for living a blameless life. This is achieved by "despises a vile man, but honors those who fear the lord." or "has no slander on his tongue." These things seem pretty obvious and are undoubtedly already written in the law. It makes me question the reason for writing this little 5 verse psalm in the first place.

Well, that's it for now, I have class in 5ive minutes, and I hope to see Ben tonight. Bye everyone.

[LutheranMafia]

Doing a key word search on Biblegateway.com for the term “counsel”, limited to the Book of Job, is useful in figuring out the true meaning of Job’s final extremely brief apparent recant of his arguments. The first three verses quoted below are Job speaking, the fourth is from God and then in the fifth is Job’s apparent recant. However, God’s reply in the epilogue gives no credence or even acknowledgement to Job’s recant, instead it turns on those whom *Job* was counseling.

Job took God’s reply in 38:2 to be a reference to him, but in truth God was referring to his misguided friends as the obscurers of good counsel. God was referring to Job as the source of good counsel that his friends were obscuring with false logic, “by words without knowledge".

Job’s recant was too hasty, he misunderstood God’s words for a moment and thought God was rebuking him.

Job 12

13 But [only] with [God] are [perfect] wisdom and might; He [alone] has [true] counsel and understanding.


Job 15

8 Were you present to hear the secret counsel of God? And do you limit [the possession of] wisdom to yourself?


Job 26

3 How you have counseled him who has no wisdom! And how plentifully you have declared to him sound knowledge!


Job 38

1 THEN THE Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,

2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?


Job 42

3 [You said to me] Who is this that darkens and obscures counsel [by words] without knowledge? Therefore [I now see] I have [rashly] uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

4 [I had virtually said to You what You have said to me:] Hear, I beseech You, and I will speak; I will demand of You, and You declare to me.

5I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.
6Therefore I loathe [my words] and abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes.

Epilogue:Job 42

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer.



Note: I used the Amplified Bible translation up until the epilogue because I believe they do a much better job of hashing out all of the subtle nuances of difficult translations. The Book of Job is particularly difficult and the Amplified Bible’s translation is unusually peppered with parenthetical explanatory phrases compared to most of their translations.

However, at the epilogue when God drop’s the hammer on Job’s friends, the Hebrew is apparently written using very straight forward and much more vernacular language. Job was apparently using Hebrew to its fullest extent in his attempts to describe God, so his words translate with great difficulty, but God’s final answer uses language that I suspect is exceptionally clear and straight forward compared to Job’s profoundly poetic prose, and then God’s equally profoundly poetic prose in reiterating all of Job’s points in even greater detail the way He does in chapters 38 through 41.

So for the epilogue I switched to the NIV version. It has punctuation, namely double quotes around God’s words to distinguish it from the narrative (in a Red Letter Bible the quotes would be in red rather than quoted). The Amplified Bible only has one short parenthetical phrase in this section and it is part of the NIV translation. Also the NIV version puts God’s words of final judgment all together into a single paragraph and then continues the narrative in paragraph form to the finale, whereas the AB keeps breaking every line out the way that both translations do with the words of Job and God’s earlier use of more complex and poetic language.

[Edial]

Doing a key word search on Biblegateway.com for the term “counsel”, limited to the Book of Job, is useful in figuring out the true meaning of Job’s final extremely brief apparent recant of his arguments. The first three verses quoted below are Job speaking, the fourth is from God and then in the fifth is Job’s apparent recant. However, God’s reply in the epilogue gives no credence or even acknowledgement to Job’s recant, instead it turns on those whom *Job* was counseling.

Job took God’s reply in 38:2 to be a reference to him, but in truth God was referring to his misguided friends as the obscurers of good counsel. God was referring to Job as the source of good counsel that his friends were obscuring with false logic, “by words without knowledge".

Job’s recant was too hasty, he misunderstood God’s words for a moment and thought God was rebuking him.


Job 12




13 But [only] with [God] are [perfect] wisdom and might; He [alone] has [true] counsel and understanding.





Job 15




8 Were you present to hear the secret counsel of God? And do you limit [the possession of] wisdom to yourself?





Job 26




3 How you have counseled him who has no wisdom! And how plentifully you have declared to him sound knowledge!





Job 38




1 THEN THE Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,




2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?





Job 42




3 [You said to me] Who is this that darkens and obscures counsel [by words] without knowledge? Therefore [I now see] I have [rashly] uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.




4 [I had virtually said to You what You have said to me:] Hear, I beseech You, and I will speak; I will demand of You, and You declare to me.



5I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.
6Therefore I loathe [my words] and abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes.


Epilogue:Job 42




7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer.





Note: I used the Amplified Bible translation up until the epilogue because I believe they do a much better job of hashing out all of the subtle nuances of difficult translations. The Book of Job is particularly difficult and the Amplified Bible’s translation is unusually peppered with parenthetical explanatory phrases compared to most of their translations.

However, at the epilogue when God drop’s the hammer on Job’s friends, the Hebrew is apparently written using very straight forward and much more vernacular language. Job was apparently using Hebrew to its fullest extent in his attempts to describe God, so his words translate with great difficulty, but God’s final answer uses language that I suspect is exceptionally clear and straight forward compared to Job’s profoundly poetic prose, and then God’s equally profoundly poetic prose in reiterating all of Job’s points in even greater detail the way He does in chapters 38 through 41.

So for the epilogue I switched to the NIV version. It has punctuation, namely double quotes around God’s words to distinguish it from the narrative (in a Red Letter Bible the quotes would be in red rather than quoted). The Amplified Bible only has one short parenthetical phrase in this section and it is part of the NIV translation. Also the NIV version puts God’s words of final judgment all together into a single paragraph and then continues the narrative in paragraph form to the finale, whereas the AB keeps breaking every line out the way that both translations do with the words of Job and God’s earlier use of more complex and poetic language.
OK. It is great you are researching this. And we could discuss this.

One thing.

You said:
"Job took God’s reply in 38:2 to be a reference to him, but in truth God was referring to his misguided friends as the obscurers of good counsel. God was referring to Job as the source of good counsel that his friends were obscuring with false logic, “by words without knowledge".
Job’s recant was too hasty, he misunderstood God’s words for a moment and thought God was rebuking him.


Here is the text of 38:1 and 2.

JOB 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
JOB 38:2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?


In v.1 it states that the Lord answered Job.

What do you say?

Thanks,
Ed

[filosofer]

You might find that the key to the entire book is found in 40:8

God speaks: "Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself?" (NIV)

[LutheranMafia]

You might find that the key to the entire book is found in 40:8

God speaks: "Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself?" (NIV)

That is proven out in chapter 42 to be a purely rhetorical statement on God's part, but a profoundly visceral statement from Job, who always echoed God's most poignant thoughts, even before God Himself speaks to the ear of those lesser than Job.

[LutheranMafia]

Sometimes a mere mortal man can speak as God. Of this we all know.

[Edial]

You might find that the key to the entire book is found in 40:8

God speaks: "Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself?" (NIV)


Yes. Yes. I forgot thst one.

Thanks. :)

[LutheranMafia]

*hiccup* (double post)

[LutheranMafia]

You might find that the key to the entire book is found in 40:8

God speaks: "Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself?" (NIV)
Yes. Yes. I forgot this one.

Thanks. :)
It is a statement that God is making to Job's friends about both Job and Himself.

All of Job's arguments are about the Glory of God, not about himself. He never really tries to defend himself for more than the briefest of moments. When you truly identify with your hero you start trying to think like Him, and in the end you really do start to think like Him, with love and compassion for everyone around you.

[LutheranMafia]

JOB 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
JOB 38:2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?


In v.1 it states that the Lord answered Job.

What do you say?

Thanks,
Ed
I missed this message before, I specifically said that God was referring to the bad counsel of Job's friends, for which God threatens retribution, but stays His hand at the behest of Job, whom God harkens to speak on their behalf at a formal religious feast sponsored by their personal contribution of sacrifices and feast offerings from their own livestock. God said, not if, but that Job would pray for the redemption of their tainted faith, in front of everyone, and in so doing redeem them with extraordinary easy, despite God's great displeasure with them.

Sometimes God chooses a man like Job and Jesus, or a woman like Esther, to speak personally for His wishes. When God calls us we must be ready to give up everything to the thieves in the night and follow the path that our heart shows, rather than to follow our desire for comfort and acceptance.

[BreadAlone]

This is a noble endeavor you've set out on, my friend. Oddly enough, I have just recently decided to read the Bible cover to cover also! I plan on durring the day reading from beginning to wherever I get, stick a bookmark in, and then at night do my regular Bible study..

[Jim47]

Reading the bible cover to cover isn't hard at all. It requires a little organization and dicipline is all. One must decide to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to read, and just as importtant is deciding on what time of the day to read, for instancce I read right after making my morning tea. If I get up early enough I may go through 2 cups, but most of the time I just continue reading after the tea is all gone.

Reading God's word gives one a great feeling of peace. If you have read the whole bible you can easily see God's plan of salvation right from the beginning. God's love is not like our love. He keeps on loving us inspite of our unfaithfulness.

I can't stress enough the importance of reading all 4 gospils and then proceeding on through Acts and all the epistles. Reading Revelations is fine, but not nearly as important as reading the rest of the NT, but by all means make the committment to read all of God's word. He gave it to us for our bennefit. :preach:

[CaliforniaJosiah]

IF it helps, Hosanna Ministries (the "Faith Come By Hearing" people) have CD's of the entire NT read aloud. It's available, for free, on a single CD. I've use this in the car, and I've also used it to play as I read a book. You may google them. Or I have an extra copy, I'd be glad to mail it to you, I got it for free.

Having a book read REALLY slows you down, but on the other hand, the actor is putting his "spin" on the reading which - in and of itself - can help "see" the text in a new light. And sometimes helps things "soak in."

[Radiata]

Well, it's been 2 days since my last update. Yesterday I was working till 7pm where the rest of the night was spent doing homework. Today I have been working till 5 and have just finished dinner. After this update, I think I'm going to put Psalms on hold and move to a New Testament book. Ben told me on Thursday that they can get repetitive, and that I should mix in a New Testament book to break up the lengths of the Old Testament. Here's my update.

Does anyone know if it would be possible to find a recording of a psalm exactly the way it would have been played 3000 years ago? That would be interesting to hear.

In psalm 18, we see a replica of David's Song of Praise from II Samuel 22. It says that God is pleased with David for the great works that he did. It continues with a description of God's power, saying things like: "He parted the heavens and came down." "Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced, with hailstones and bolts of lightning." and so on. I like verse 30 where it says that "He is a shield for all who take refuge in him." It makes me ponder how much worse off we would be in our times of trouble if we were not under the shelter of God. And his closing of praise is awesome.

In chapter 19 we see God's presence in the environment, then through scripture and its laws, and then through our lifestyles in our everyday experiences. And speaking of those laws, usually we think of rules as taking the fun out of everything. But these ones make us wise, and bring us Joy. God's laws are liberating for us rather than restraints.

In chapter 20, this little 9 verse psalm, David prays for victory in battle. Disregarding the references to burnt offerings, we can use this psalm ourselves to prepare for our own challenges in life. My last chapter today deals with David's victory after the battle. He claims that everything he has is a gift from God and rightly so. We should see ourselves this way and use our blessings to give back to God in the form of praise. Verse 7 says that "through the unfailing love of the Most High he will not be shaken. Even though we may rise and fall in life, and though there are wicked people who do prosper and good that fall in life, we can not be overthrown from God's favor. He is our rock and our foundation. "Be exalted. O Lord, in your strength; we will sing and praise your might."

[Radiata]

I think from now on I will provide an update of the previous day's reading. All too often I read after any chance that I might have to update. So this is from last night when I started Luke. Someone said that one should have a complete understanding of the gospels before going to Acts. Well since reading the Case for Christ, and "The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" I wanted to look at Luke form a historical perspective and see the clear, crisp details that he goes into. "The general consensus of both liberal and conservative scholars is that Luke is very accurate as a historian. He's erudite, he's eloquent, his Greek approaches classical quality, he writes as an educated man, and archaeological discoveries are showing over and over again that Luke is accurate in what he has to say."

Luke's chapters are long. Much longer than what I'm used to in the Old Testament. Last night I made a bunch of marks on observations and questions I would like to address.

Luke 1 "from the beginning" From the beginning indeed. Unlike Matthew, Luke traces the genealogy all the way back to Adam. But moving on, I see a pattern that people see themselves as disgraced if they don't have children. In the case of Rachel, she was ecstatic for bearing a male child to Jacob thinking that she has done him a great honor in providing one. We see the same thing with Zechariah and Elizabeth. I know I'm very different from everyone else, but I don't see children as a blessing. They cause so much trouble and stress. I know I'm ignoring the joy that they bring also, but that's just the kind of guy I am. And speaking of children, I heard that Mary was only 13 when she gave birth. Is there any way that we can confirm that? I looked for references to her age, but never found any.

Still in Luke 1, we see "The Magnificat" possibly the reason the RCC puts so much attention on her. I've got to be honest, even in Lord of the Rings, I don't read the songs. I tried, but I could never grasp them. This is also in part why I left the Psalms for a while. The songs make me fall asleep. Very much unlike the history of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles, which I'm pretty sure have a better chance for putting people to sleep than songs. And lastly from chapter 1 is that I see John venturing out into the desert. Why the desert? My notes say that being separate from the hypocritical religious leaders of his day, he could give a message that was different form theirs.

Next chapter. I see that they call the Town of David: Bethlehem, and the City of David Jerusalem. Is there a reason for that? Moving on, my notes say something interesting about the stable. "This mention of the manger is the basis for the traditional belief that Jesus was born in a stable. Stables were often caves with feeding troughs carved into the rock walls. Despite popular Christmas card pictures, the surroundings were dark and dirty. This was not the atmosphere the Jews expected as the birthplace of the Messiah King. They thought their promised Messiah would be born in royal surroundings. We should not limit God by our expectations. He is at work wherever he is needed in our sin-darkened and dirty world." Just something I saw as interesting because I thought that it was the Christmas card environment.

I've got a question for Mary's purification. My cheater bible says: For 40 days after the birth of a son and 80 days after the birth of a daughter, the mother was ceremonially unclean and could not enter the temple. What!? What is this nonsense? This can't be a part of Mosaic law, and it sounds extremely ridiculous. Especially when you need to wait twice as long when giving birth to a daughter.

This is taking longer than I wanted it to, so I'll cut the easy stuff. Let's see, John prepares the way for Jesus, Jesus gets baptized, Luke gives a genealogical account of Jesus all the way to Adam, Why did Jesus go into the wilderness for 40 days? Was it for the sole reason of being tempted? In this temptation, Satan actually does say some truth in 4:6 "And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been give to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to." We really are in Satan's kingdom and the devil tempts all with power that he has and will give to those who follow him. Lets see, Jesus taught in Galilee and couldn't perform miracles in his hometown of Nazareth and was almost thrown off a cliff, Jesus drives out demons by his own authority which cause wonder by the onlookers, He heals Peter's mother in law, and preaches throughout the rest of Galilee before ending Chapter 4.

[synger]

I'm not sure if a walk through the Bible in a determinant amount of time is helpful. It's not a novel to see if we can get through. It's the Word of God to be meditated on and prayed over for better insight thought the Holy Spirit. I think there are too many people that do this, like the reformed, that think that they will be better Christians just by "reading". It's almost as if they are doing it like the rosary and using it in an unconscious method or it effects them like osmosis and they absorb it just by reading quickly through it. Like increasing faith exponentially or doing penance.

just my 2 cents worth.

you mean sleeping with the Bible under my pillow won't help? *grins*

I agree that we need to contemplate and meditate and not just "read". But reading can be extremely useful, too, to get an overview of a part of the Bible (especially the historic parts). I have two Bibles for "reading", one of which is set up visually so that it looks like a book rather than a Bible (single column, minimum of footnotes, large type, verse numbering in the margin rather than among the text itself).

However, I've found that I need to be aware of those sections where I slow down, or I find myself re-reading it... I flag those for deeper study, and inevitably something comes up in my life in the next few days where that concept and those verses are exactly what I need.

[Radiata]

Just saying that I read Luke 5-12. These chapters are much longer than the old testament....or so it seems.

[Radiata]

I thought that everyone was supposed to yell at me if I went 2 days without updating. Well it's been 3 days and I haven't stopped reading. In fact, I finished Luke last night. I was fading in and out so I will be reading the last chapter again. In all honesty, besides all of the references to different officials, I don't see how Luke is held as one of the greatest historians of the first century. To me, his book is more of a narrative than a documentary.

Anyway, a couple questions. In Luke 20:34, Jesus responds to the Sadducees concerning the resurrection. Yet in order to do this, Jesus would have to explain using only the Law of Moses. In His answer all it seems that Jesus did was mention the burning bush which satisfied them. He says: "But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord "the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive." I don't quite understand how Jesus was trying to make his point with this answer.

Also, I don't understand why in chapter 18, Jesus compares God answering prayers to a wicked judge. It says: "Even though I don't fear God or care about men, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won't eventually wear me out with her coming." And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones who cry out to Him day and night? Will He keep putting them off? I tell you, He will see that they get justice, and quickly..."

What this makes it sound like is that we will wear down God if we keep coming to God in prayer again and again and again. And it doesn't even try to explain that God is not like a wicked judge that only grants to those who are persistent and not to those who are really in need, or are repentful.

[Edial]

...

Luke 1 "from the beginning" From the beginning indeed. Unlike Matthew, Luke traces the genealogy all the way back to Adam. But moving on, I see a pattern that people see themselves as disgraced if they don't have children. In the case of Rachel, she was ecstatic for bearing a male child to Jacob thinking that she has done him a great honor in providing one. We see the same thing with Zechariah and Elizabeth. I know I'm very different from everyone else, but I don't see children as a blessing. They cause so much trouble and stress. I know I'm ignoring the joy that they bring also, but that's just the kind of guy I am.
...
I never had children, so I cannot comment on the joy of having children.

However, from what I understand there is this "click" that happens when one has a child.
It could be one's own child or an adopted one, but the click happens.

Some have abortions because they never "clicked" inside their hearts.

I think I only once held a baby in my hands.
I was so scared ... I did not want to break it somehow. :)

This alive "thing" is so dependant on you, I do not see how a click cannot happen.

I think I exhausted my entire knowledge on children. :)

Ed :)

[Radiata]

What's this? 4 days without an update and not a single person yelling at me to get my lazy behind in gear? That's right, I haven't read anything since I finished Luke. I'm so sorry that I put it on hold again. I seem to be following the same pattern of picking it up for a while and then putting it down again. Well, I still haven't read anything because of all the stress that I am going through with Ben as described in the other thread, as well as the fact that I have a test and a lab due tomorrow and I have to get working on them. I am currently 90% done studying and about 30% done with my lab. Hopefully I can get done with my lab tonight giving me time to read some more psalms before going to bed. Then finishing my studying tomorrow before my test at 6:30pm.

[Edial]

What's this? 4 days without an update and not a single person yelling at me to get my lazy behind in gear? That's right, I haven't read anything since I finished Luke. I'm so sorry that I put it on hold again. I seem to be following the same pattern of picking it up for a while and then putting it down again. Well, I still haven't read anything because of all the stress that I am going through with Ben as described in the other thread, as well as the fact that I have a test and a lab due tomorrow and I have to get working on them. I am currently 90% done studying and about 30% done with my lab. Hopefully I can get done with my lab tonight giving me time to read some more psalms before going to bed. Then finishing my studying tomorrow before my test at 6:30pm.
What stood out for you when reading Luke and how would you apply it to your life?

Thanks,
Ed

[deepgreen11]

How's it going? ;) You said you wanted us to yell at you. Here we are!

DG

[Edial]

How's it going? ;) You said you wanted us to yell at you. Here we are!

DG
:D:D:thumbsup:

[Radiata]

Hi guys... and gals. My internet is down so since I'm just passing through the library trying to get my information for my test tomorrow, I wont be able to make any long statement here. After getting to Psalms 35, I gave up. I just can't get into them. So I'm skipping the rest of the book for now and moving on to Proverbs. Somehow I found time in between studying to read the first 3 chapters. It was pretty plain. Solomon the wise says in 3 chapters that we must not 1. follow bad company, and 2. seek God's wisdom and not our own. There's probably more there, but I didn't devote much time to it yesterday. In the meantime, I need to get back home, analyze the text I just got from here (the library) print select passages so that I can take it with me to work that I have in a couple hours.

In the meantime, I can't wait for the reunion.

[BigNorsk]

Psalms are poetry. It's better if you have an attractive young lady read them to you.

But failing that, translation does make a difference to me in Psalms.

The NEB is rather elegant. The NET makes an effort to write poetry as poetry. The more literal style translations tend to make it rather wooden.

In any case, I would suggest just adding a bit of Psalms in each day rather than trying to read right through them. I go into poetry overload trying that.

I do much better in Proverbs. As you probably have noticed the first chapeters, I think it's 11, are basically written to young people. I summarize them as the wine, women, song, easy gain chapters. The great temptations that seem to especially assail the young.

Marv

[Radiata]

I'm finally back on it. I read up to Proverbs 11 yesterday. Sadly, I have absolutely no time to talk about it because guests will be arriving shortly for my InterVarsity BBQ.

[Radiata]

I read all the way up to chapter 24 yesterday. Probably one of the more boring sections to read. I like lessons to be longer than one sentence. Especially when many of them are common sense. Like 22:28. Do not move an ancient boundry stone set up by your forefathers. That's the whole proverb. But this goes to show that these proverbs which are supposed to contain wisdom, are displaying that being righteous is being wise. The two must go together.

But that isn't to say that I didn't find anything good in it. Like in 19:2, It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way. This follows Jesus' parable about the seeds being thrown in rocky soil. It grows fast but shrivels just as fast.

It got better near the end when they got longer during the latter half of chapter 22. I hope to finish proverbs in the next couple days. Maybe tomorrow. I have absolutely nothing to do seeing as this is my week off till school starts after labor day.

[Edial]

Wow. What a post!
I read all the way up to chapter 24 yesterday. Probably one of the more boring sections to read. I like lessons to be longer than one sentence. Especially when many of them are common sense. Like 22:28. Do not move an ancient boundry stone set up by your forefathers. That's the whole proverb. But this goes to show that these proverbs which are supposed to contain wisdom, are displaying that being righteous is being wise. The two must go together.
I never heard it put that way before.

How did you do on your exam, by the way?

Ed

[Radiata]

I finished proverbs today. But I'm really not in the right mind to make any intelligent report.

[filosofer]

But this goes to show that these proverbs which are supposed to contain wisdom, are displaying that being righteous is being wise. The two must go together.


Indeed, that is the heart of all wisdom literature. And of course, Jesus is the righteous one and at the same time is the wise one. What is interesting is that both of those elements come together in the suffering and death of the wise One, Jesus, in fulfilling God's plan of salvation.

So likewise, those who are in Christ are declared righteous, gain the wisdom through the Spirit working in the Word, and learn and grow in the midst of suffering. As humans we do not like it. But that is God's way of working in our lives. So when we see suffering and death, we cannot always see God's wisdom or even his righteousness being displayed. But the basis of our faith is that God indeed is righteous and wise and knows exactly what is best, especially in suffering.... And that is so hard to learn, accept, fathom....

[RadMan]

Indeed, that is the heart of all wisdom literature. And of course, Jesus is the righteous one and at the same time is the wise one. What is interesting is that both of those elements come together in the suffering and death of the wise One, Jesus, in fulfilling God's plan of salvation.

So likewise, those who are in Christ are declared righteous, gain the wisdom through the Spirit working in the Word, and learn and grow in the midst of suffering. As humans we do not like it. But that is God's way of working in our lives. So when we see suffering and death, we cannot always see God's wisdom or even his righteousness being displayed. But the basis of our faith is that God indeed is righteous and wise and knows exactly what is best, especially in suffering.... And that is so hard to learn, accept, fathom....

So that we are righteous before God because of Christ's suffering and death and that our lives run parallel with Christs in that we gain wisdom through suffering? That ties in with tempering steel or refining silver.

Unfortunately most Christians don't want to hear that. They want to feel good and not have tribulation. We don't want to know that the Bible says we will suffer as Christians for Christ. That's why we fall for the "feel good" phenomena. I know I want dodge those issues sometimes. That's why, I think, that when the secular world demands their views be followed that we acquiesce. We don't want to look too different than them. Then we loose our beliefs slowly but surely.

[Radiata]

Well, I'm back from a while of not posting. Two days ago, I decided to get out and drive. It was the last day before my fall classes started. So I got on M-53 and headed north not knowing where I was going. Then I hit a light and decided to not wait for the light and headed east on I-69 and drove it straight into the water that is Lake St. Clair in Port Huron. I got out of my car and Read my bible till it was too dark to continue. During my time, I finished Ecclesiastes and got through all of Song of Songs.

What is it people? Is the book called Song of Songs, or Song of Solomon? I keep seeing both and I don't know what to call it anymore.

Anymore, going through Ecclesiastes was interesting for me. Here I am, a guy that read through proverbs, Song of Songs previously, and again two days ago, and what do I find in Ecclesiastes? Easy to understand, nonchalant language that I was able to breeze through. Imagine my surprise there. I saw that it was a good lesson... that everything is meaningless under the sun without God. But for some reason, I enjoyed Song of Songs much more this time around. Possibly since I read it before and knew
what to expect making it flow better. Or perhaps because I can understand the nature of Love better than I could in high school when I read it last. A book of love poetry that not only reflects the relationship that God desires for a man and a woman but also the Love between God and His people.

Anyway, I have one more class to attend today. An hour of Medical terminology and the InterVarsity welcome meeting. I'll see everybody around.

EDIT: My class that is supposed to start at 4pm doesn't even meet until October. How dumb.

Anyway, I rushed out so fast that I forgot to mention that I started Isaiah. I have been looking forward to this one. For some reason, when I read about him in 2kings, I wanted to hear his story of judgment and prophesy of Jesus. So I'f finished the first 3 chapters and things are looking grim for Israel. A prophet always gives much more information than a book of history.

[Edial]

... A prophet always gives much more information than a book of history.
Ha!

[Tofferer]

I am also working on the OT. However, I am using a series of work books by NavPress. These work books are used at Covenant Bible Seminary for the Independent Study program. I am presently working on Genesis. Then I plan to do Exodus and also the Gospel of John. Beyond that, I have other work books, but I don't know which ones I will do first. Still, each book is worth five credits and also helps me to better understand scripture. Can't go wrong studying scripture.

[Radiata]

I'm all the way up to Chapter 13

[Edial]

I am also working on the OT. However, I am using a series of work books by NavPress. These work books are used at Covenant Bible Seminary for the Independent Study program. I am presently working on Genesis. Then I plan to do Exodus and also the Gospel of John. Beyond that, I have other work books, but I don't know which ones I will do first. Still, each book is worth five credits and also helps me to better understand scripture. Can't go wrong studying scripture.
Do you need to write papers on these?

[Tofferer]

yes.