Who does Judaism say

[Lulav]

was the one Moshe spoke of?

Who is this prophet?

15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. Muslims believe it was Muhammad, who do you say he is?

[RebYosef]

Shalom,

Muslims believe it was Muhammad, who do you say he is?

Must it just reffer to just one person? Lets look at the passage in a larger context...


9. When you have come to the land the Lord, your God, is giving you, you shall not learn to do like the abominations of those nations.


10. There shall not be found among you anyone who passes his son or daughter through fire, a soothsayer, a diviner of [auspicious] times, one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,


11. or a charmer, a pithom sorcerer, a yido'a sorcerer, or a necromancer.


12. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations, the Lord, your God is driving them out from before you.


13. Be wholehearted with the Lord, your God.


14. For these nations, which you are to possess, hearken to diviners of [auspicious] times and soothsayers, but as for you, the Lord, your God, has not given you [things] like these.


15. A prophet from among you, from your brothers, like me, the Lord, your God will set up for you you shall hearken to him.


16. According to all that you asked of the Lord, your God, in Horeb, on the day of the assembly, saying, "Let me not continue to hear the voice of the Lord, my God, and let me no longer see this great fire, so that I will not die."


17. And the Lord said to me, "They have done well in what they have spoken.


18. I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.


19. And it will be, that whoever does not hearken to My words that he speaks in My name, I will exact [it] of him.


20. But the prophet who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.


21. Now if you say to yourself, "How will we know the word that the Lord did not speak?"


22. If the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, and the thing does not occur and does not come about, that is the thing the Lord did not speak. The prophet has spoken it wantonly; you shall not be afraid of him.



I took the liberty, to underline the phrase " a prophet" from verse 15 and 18. In Hebrew, this is "navi" without a a definite article, thus making them generic in the truest sense of the word. In verse 15, Moshe is speaking to the Israelites, so the "Like me" is reffering to himself. In verse 18 he quoteing HaShem's promise as told to him.

This is merely setting up the office or role, of the prophets. It gives a reason why, on whos's authority and how to tell a real one from a fake one. You'll even notice the bit, "...I will put My words into his mouth..." is repeated in Jeremiah 1:9 and Isaiah 59:21.

I hope this helps.

[ChavaK]

Shalom,



Must it just reffer to just one person? Lets look at the passage in a larger context...



I took the liberty, to underline the phrase " a prophet" from verse 15 and 18. In Hebrew, this is "navi" without a a definite article, thus making them generic in the truest sense of the word. In verse 15, Moshe is speaking to the Israelites, so the "Like me" is reffering to himself. In verse 18 he quoteing HaShem's promise as told to him.

This is merely setting up the office or role, of the prophets. It gives a reason why, on whos's authority and how to tell a real one from a fake one. You'll even notice the bit, "...I will put My words into his mouth..." is repeated in Jeremiah 1:9 and Isaiah 59:21.

I hope this helps.

I agree, this is not referring to a single prophet. This is basically a job
description- telling us where and how a prophet will be known. How
to tell a real from a fake.

[Lulav]

So you believe that all the true prophets were like Moshe?

Yet many were killed for speaking the truth?

[RebYosef]

So you believe that all the true prophets were like Moshe?

Sort of. If you look closer at the hebrew in the important passages you find the words kamoni (like me) and kamocha (like you) are used. These are conjugations of ke'mo which kinda functions as the English "like" or "as". You use this for things that are similiar, but not identical. The prophets after Moshe were like him, in the fact that Hashem placed his words in their mouth and they gave a verbal expression of His will. However, they were not Moshe.

Yet many were killed for speaking the truth?

Why do you think this?

[Lulav]

Why do you think this? Because it is in our writings ( Messianics) and also it is found in Kings, at least regarding Eliyahu, the plot at least.

"Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar." Matthew 23


In the Bavel Talmud, 96B it speaks of the blood of Zechariah who fortold the taking of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzer, who was killed because he forewarned of the destruction of the temple. I'm sure there is more.

Jeremiah 26 speaks of the murder of Urijah

20 Now there was also a man who prophesied in the name of the LORD, Urijah the son of Shemaiah of Kirjath Jearim, who prophesied against this city and against this land according to all the words of Jeremiah. 21 And when Jehoiakim the king, with all his mighty men and all the princes, heard his words, the king sought to put him to death; but when Urijah heard it, he was afraid and fled, and went to Egypt. 22 Then Jehoiakim the king sent men to Egypt: Elnathan the son of Achbor, and other men who went with him to Egypt. 23 And they brought Urijah from Egypt and brought him to Jehoiakim the king, who killed him with the sword and cast his dead body into the graves of the common people.

[RebYosef]

Because it is in our writings ( Messianics) and also it is found in Kings, at least regarding Eliyahu, the plot at least.

What I meant was, why do you think Israel turned on them?

[Lulav]

oh, sorry. :blush:

Why do I think? who should want to be told they are doing wrong and HaShem will punish them if they don't turn from it and make teshuvah? No one I know of :)

BUT...............that's no reason to commit murder or to make it so that mouth that speaks from Ha Shem is silenced. It doesn't change the words he said, but only deepens the guilt and sin.

[RebYosef]

oh, sorry. :blush:

Why do I think? who should want to be told they are doing wrong and HaShem will punish them if they don't turn from it and make teshuvah? No one I know of :)

BUT...............that's no reason to commit murder or to make it so that mouth that speaks from Ha Shem is silenced. It doesn't change the words he said, but only deepens the guilt and sin.

Agreed. :)

[kivi]

So you believe that all the true prophets were like Moshe?

Yet many were killed for speaking the truth?

kivi says: Before we can continue this discussion: can you give any evicence of your claim? What prophets are you refering to? And who were the supposed murders of these prophets?

[kivi]

Because it is in our writings ( Messianics) and also it is found in Kings, at least regarding Eliyahu, the plot at least.

In the Bavel Talmud, 96B it speaks of the blood of Zechariah who fortold the taking of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzer, who was killed because he forewarned of the destruction of the temple. I'm sure there is more.
kivi says: I am not sure what you are talking about. Zechariah was most famous for his warning that the people were NOT re-building the Temple, not that the Temple was going to be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzer. There is at leat a 60-90 year difference between the two.

Jeremiah 26 speaks of the murder of Urijah.
kivi says: We know from the text that both Jeremiah and Uriah spoke the same prophesy. And we now that Jeremaih when it was ordered that he be killed, he was saved because the people, the priests, the prophets and the King's minister's were able to protect Jeremaih from the power of the false king. In the case of Uriah, the people, the priests, the prophets and the King' ministers did not protected him. The difference was not the prophecy but that Jeremiah stood his ground while Uriah fled to Egypt.