God TV was going broke before TB's Florida Outpouring came along

[geetrue]

God TV use to be Christian Channel Europe they changed their name to God TV and have been having fund raising problems.

Research about Todd Bentley brought these news items to the fore front ... basically they were running out of money and needed a miracle.


You decide ... God or man ... Faith or flesh

This first article is 22 months old, but points in the right direction …


(http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2006/09/23/given-evidence-that-god-tv-have-raised-themselves-up-n-o-t-g-o-d/)CCE/God TV is a counterfeit (http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2006/09/23/given-evidence-that-god-tv-have-raised-themselves-up-n-o-t-g-o-d/)

Christian Channel Europe’ which is now
known as ‘GOD TV is not from God; it is a counterfeit of the worst
and most diabolical kind and is to be rejected and denounced.
David McAllister
The Belfast Berean
(http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2006/09/23/given-evidence-that-god-tv-have-raised-themselves-up-n-o-t-g-o-d/)


This is five months old, but points in the right direction …


(http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/god-tv-is-not-making-100-000-a-day-target-needed-to-save-the-ministry-i-predict-god-tv-will-close-this-missions-week-month-2008/)God TV was heavy in debt before Todd bentley came along (http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/god-tv-is-not-making-100-000-a-day-target-needed-to-save-the-ministry-i-predict-god-tv-will-close-this-missions-week-month-2008/)

NEWSFLASH: GOD TV RUNNING TOTAL WAY BEHIND TARGETS NEEDED £100 000 A DAY I PREDICT DEMISE OF GOD TV ON PRESENT BANKED RATES

February 21, 2008 ·

GOD TV NEEDS £100 000 A DAY TO MAKE £3M NEEDED TO KEEP GOD TV FROM BEING TAKEN OFF THE AIR AS CREDITORS HAVE FINALLY HAD ENOUGH (DISTRIBUTERS AND SATTELLITES I ESTIMATE TO BE 7 NOW WITH SEVERE LOSSES, DOWN BY HALF FROM ORIGINAL 15 FIGURE.
(http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/god-tv-is-not-making-100-000-a-day-target-needed-to-save-the-ministry-i-predict-god-tv-will-close-this-missions-week-month-2008/)

This also points in the right direction … bottom line is God TV was going broke


(http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/roryalecadoptsbusinessasusaul-approch-onthefailingimment-of-godtvasonly00000isin-bankedaccount/)March 14th was the deadline ... TB Lakeland started on April 2nd (http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/roryalecadoptsbusinessasusaul-approch-onthefailingimment-of-godtvasonly00000isin-bankedaccount/)

God TV have the £3m in pledges. Start Feb 13- Date of 27 Feb 2008 of £3m. HOWEVER less than £100,000 is banked spelling the imminent demise of God TV on March 14 2008
(http://thegovernmentalgoalsofgodtv.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/roryalecadoptsbusinessasusaul-approch-onthefailingimment-of-godtvasonly00000isin-bankedaccount/).

[CryoftheNation]

You know, it's on the internet so it must be true, even without any corresponding sources. (Reminds me of Petes truth diagram - love that Pete! :thumbsup:)

Almost every christian ministry struggles for finances, especially a TV station that does not carry advertising and has to rely on donations. By the way. By March 14th your own report says they had the money they needed. That was nothing to do with Todd Bentley! They had their annual "telathon" week which raised the cash! I know, I was watching! Their coverage of the florida outbreak did not start until April or May (If I recall correctly) So how can that be anything to do with Florida and TB?

(And yes, you made the inference with your title. God TV was going broke before TB's Florida Outpouring came along).
Every year they have to fund raise. It's the nature of the ministry in that it needs significant amounts of money to operate. Have you ever tried to put a tv show together? It's amazingly expensive.

Now I don't agree with everything God TV does, and the way that they put their own advertising banners for Rory and Wendys show half way across the screen on other programs really hacks me off, but spreading false and misleading roumers is not on my friend.

The way some people are acting on this site, quite frankly, is very scary for a "Christian". Since when are we called to be vindictive, spread misleading and false information just because we don't agree with someone?

Eph 4:15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Eph&chapter=4&version=NIV#) Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.



God Bless

Simon

[GreatistheLord]

They changed their name to God TV many years ago.

God TV have dropped *alot* of paying ministries to put on this move of God on global
tv, day and night, for nearly 100 days at *no charge* to TB, costing them millions in lost revenue.

God bless God TV.

[CryoftheNation]

They changed their name to God TV many years ago.

God TV have dropped *alot* of paying ministries to put on this move of God on global
tv, day and night, for nearly 100 days at *no charge* to TB, costing them millions in lost revenue.

God bless God TV.

Never let it be said that here on CF we let the facts get in the way of a good herecy hunt!!!:D:D:D

[Jimbeaux]

If GodTV went broke would Christianity survive?

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[CryoftheNation]

If GodTV went broke would Christianity survive?

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain



Wash your mouth out!! Of course it wouldn't!! :P

[GreatistheLord]

If GodTV went broke would Christianity survive?

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain



You're right, let's have another telethon. Anyone know Mike Murdoch's number?

[geetrue]

God is smarter than we are ... it's just a matter of time before it all comes unraveled ...

God TV is heavy into Word of Faith just look their line up of shows.

They depend on a lot of hype to get them through the year.

Only God can save them now ... Jesus has his own reasons for this airing of Todd Bentley Florida outpouring.

God has already said, "What's in it for me"

The debate is really about discerning of spirits if you stop and think about it.

I thought it was God for 90 days or so and now I don't.

I see it as a way to divide the body of Christ into three camps

For God TV and Todd Bentley's brand of outpouring of what he calls God's glory, "Come and get some"

Against all of the above

I don't know what your talking about ... I have never heard of Todd Bentley and I can't even get God TV

[GreatistheLord]

Any major move of God that had an impact would divide the church because there has already been the split in theology over gifts of the spirit and healing / miracles. TB just brought it to the surface.

One thing is for sure, Jesus is returning for 1 bride.

[map4]

And this is why our focus should be on Jesus and not man.

[BenAdam]

All I know is when I see GodTV's schedule on my TV, I see Todd Bentley's name, not Jesus'.

[GreatistheLord]

All I know is when I see GodTV's schedule on my TV, I see Todd Bentley's name, not Jesus'.

Yeah, I love it too. Todd Bentley lifting the name of Jesus.

[geetrue]

There is a rumor going around on the internet that ATM
stands for All Todd's Money

But I refuse to spread it ...

Speaking of Todd did you know that his web site got 8,000,000 hits last month.

What is say 5% of 8,000,000 = 400,000 visitors leaving at least $10.00
equals $5,000,000 left behind or even half of that is $2.5 million

Perhaps I'm wrong ... but I don't think so.

That's some serious money were talking about.

[~RENEE~]

Hey hey hey I got some more childish gossip for y'all.








Yep yep yep I do. And this is a doozy you are just gonna love it.















Oh yeah yep yep yep
































I ain't joking oh boy it's good.

[~RENEE~]

And we all know it's only true if it's on Utube right?

[GreatistheLord]

There is a rumor going around on the internet that ATM
stands for All Todd's Money

But I refuse to spread it ...

Speaking of Todd did you know that his web site got 8,000,000 hits last month.

What is say 5% of 8,000,000 = 400,000 visitors leaving at least $10.00
equals $5,000,000 left behind or even half of that is $2.5 million

Perhaps I'm wrong ... but I don't think so.

That's some serious money were talking about.

Source? Do you like to be taken seriously?

[~RENEE~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58qr0ZhetWI

[Alpine]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Someone wake me up when this "discussion" ends!

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

This bes why conscientious ministries should use the internet. With the internet one can produce video clips, music, essays, sermons, even a full-range service online chapel using all these and gathering others in fellowship together in the same cyber-room, for little more than the monthly fee of internet access one would be paying anyway to be jacked into the 'net. YouTube and GodTube both host videos for free, and there bes places on the web one can upload pictures, mp3 files, etc. for free as well. One can make use of several free blogging sites to keep ongoing records of spiritual insights, encounters with the Lord, miracles wrought, souls saved, sermon ideas, messages from Scripture, and lots more. People can connect with one another in real time over the web and share needs and pray for one another in IMs, chats, forum boards like this, etc. Friendships can be formed. Fellowship can be had. Those in need can make their matters known and others who care can help them in practical ways, extending the ministry beyond cyberspace into 3-d world.

Television -- expensive, clumsy and obsolete ... who needs it??? Nothing but a HUGE wasteful drain on precious resources when the web could be used for broadcasting and getting the message out and ministerial monies could be used for special events and helping the needy.

[probinson]

This bes why conscientious ministries should use the internet. With the internet one can produce video clips, music, essays, sermons, even a full-range service online chapel using all these and gathering others in fellowship together in the same cyber-room, for little more than the monthly fee of internet access one would be paying anyway to be jacked into the 'net.
There are a couple of problems with this premise.

First off, what about those who don't have a computer? Or what of those that do have a computer that's not connected to the Internet? Or *gasp* they have dial-up? That's a strange concept to me too, but there are still plenty of people who either can not afford or do not want a computer with a high-speed Internet connection.

Second, if one was to compare the number of simultaneous viewers via Internet vs. TV, the bandwidth costs would be HUGE! It's true that the average Joe Schmo can hook up and get web hosting for a pittance (I pay just $49.95/6 months for mine), but I'm on a shared server, and I don't do any streaming video or multimedia.

Point being, if we were to compare apples to apples in terms of being able to support the same number of simultaneous viewers via Internet or broadcast TV, one could certainly not expect only to pay for shared web hosting and expect a reliable streaming feed to support the same vast number of simultaneous viewers that you can get with broadcast TV.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Videos and other multimedia don't have to be live stream. Vidcasts and podcasts can be made and archived. These "God TV" type channels only come through cable and satellite, so the dude using rabbit ears to pick up old school broadcasting networks won't be seeing this stuff anyway, and most people who have cable and satellite also have internet because most companies provide package deals. Cable and satellite are no cheaper than internet access, that bes for certain.

As for people living in remote parts of the world their access to world satellite systems would be limited anyway and it's way cheaper to feed and house a rotating team of missionaries over there for a year than it would be to broadcast to them for even a month.

The internet and the tools available on it for making and massaging video, audio, and other presentations have placed the entire industries of multimedia publishing at the fingertips of the average citizen for a mere pittance. No longer do people have to wait for some snot at a ritzy art gallery to agree to display their works; they can photograph them and have them up on the web within an hour for free, even arrange to sell them to discerning buyers through that avenue. No more do writers have to wait for some pulp profiteer to first approve of their concepts then set a team of editors like wolves ripping apart their presentations to make them palatable to the lowest common denominator of the masses for paperback release; now they can publish their own e-books on the internet and either share or sell their material direct. Same for filmmakers and musicians. No more having to wait for the Hollywood machine or the recording industry moguls to sit up and take notice of talent (which they won't do if it bes not accompanied by the luck of the DNA draw when it comes to physical appearance, by the way, haven't you noticed???) All artisans have been liberated by the internet, no longer beholden to having some corporation agree to produce our materials for us anymore. With a little ingenuity and research ANYONE can learn to produce his own a movie short, music, web site, blog, online community, etc. and shine abroad the light God has given them -- for free, just about.

Television has severely bloated overhead and comes with a high moral cost as well, with the whole allure of "fame" and the deceit of the fashion industry and all the ludicrous notions about having to live at a certain "level" in terms of flashiness and expense in order to mingle with others of the same caliber, etc. None of that garbage marred the apostles' presentation and while our times bes not theirs nor our culture/society the same, the notion of good stewardship has not changed. Throwing money around for "TV Star" clothes, cars, accoutrements and perks while others go hungry bes more than just wasteful or poor stewardship; it bes absolutely and unequivocally SIN. The old-school televangelists of the 1980s have already given churchy "superstardom" a rancid and abhorrent name and reputation for slime, snake oil, and hypocrisy, and some of their modern counterparts don't seem to be improving on this formula any.

[probinson]

Speaking of Todd did you know that his web site got 8,000,000 hits last month.

What is say 5% of 8,000,000 = 400,000 visitors leaving at least $10.00
equals $5,000,000 left behind or even half of that is $2.5 million

Perhaps I'm wrong ... but I don't think so.

That's some serious money were talking about.
You're in la la land if you think 8,000,000 "hits" equals 8,000,000 unique visitors to the website.

Let me give you a real world example.

I host a forum. At this moment, I have 25 registered members on my forum, with an average of 8-12 unique members visiting/day.

For the period June 1, 2008 - June 30, 2008, my webalyzer site log shows 76,377 "hits".

So first, 8,000,000 visits is HARDLY indicative of 8,000,000 people. More likely, that number is down in the thousands of people who actually visited the Fresh Fire website.

And your statistic of 5% of the people donating is also VERY high. There is a "rule" for forums, which tends to carry over to how many people actually support online. It's called the 90-9-1 theory (http://www.wikipatterns.com/display/wikipatterns/90-9-1+Theory), which you can read about by clicking the link if you're so inclined. Basically, 90% of the users lurk 9% contribute occasionally, and only 1% make up the bulk of contributions. Heck. Take a look at CF. CF currently boasts 228,838 registered members, but you and I both know that not all of those people post, much less contribute. In fact, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that 90% or more of those members have 0 posts. We could only speculate at how many are actually "site supporters", but I suspect that it is nowhere near 5%, unless you really think that 11,442 people have donated to CF.

At this moment, there are 216 registered members on CF, or 0.09% of the member base. There are an additional 579 guests, that have not registered an account online.

My point? You're using horribly wrong statistics and drawing wildly inaccurate conclusions from them, and as a result, are making some hugely false claims in the process.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/The_More_You_Know.jpg

[probinson]

Videos and other multimedia don't have to be live stream. Vidcasts and podcasts can be made and archived. These "God TV" type channels only come through cable and satellite, so the dude using rabbit ears to pick up old school broadcasting networks won't be seeing this stuff anyway, and most people who have cable and satellite also have internet because most companies provide package deals. Cable and satellite are no cheaper than internet access, that bes for certain.
Actually, one can pick up a fair amount of religious programming using FTA (free-to-air) satellite equipment. If I'm not mistaken, TBN is broadcast "in the clear", and anyone with an FTA system can get the channel for free.

And it doesn't really matter if the video is a "live" stream or not. The same amount of bandwidth is required if 1,000 people are watching a pre-recorded video or a live stream.

As for people living in remote parts of the world their access to world satellite systems would be limited anyway and it's way cheaper to feed and house a rotating team of missionaries over there for a year than it would be to broadcast to them for even a month.
That's also not true. The really cool thing about satellites is if you have a clear view of the sky, you can use satellite communications.

The internet and the tools available on it for making and massaging video, audio, and other presentations have placed the entire industries of multimedia publishing at the fingertips of the average citizen for a mere pittance. No longer do people have to wait for some snot at a ritzy art gallery to agree to display their works; they can photograph them and have them up on the web within an hour for free,
Be sure that very little on the Internet is "free". Want to display your art on Ebay? Then you'll abide by Ebay's policies and pay the "listing fee" and the "closing fee" and every other fee that they charge.

Want to host it on your own site and sell it that way? That's cool, but you'll likely end up giving PayPal their percentage of the transaction when the sale goes through.

Nothing is free.

even arrange to sell them to discerning buyers through that avenue. No more do writers have to wait for some pulp profiteer to first approve of their concepts then set a team of editors like wolves ripping apart their presentations to make them palatable to the lowest common denominator of the masses for paperback release; now they can publish their own e-books on the internet and either share or sell their material direct. Same for filmmakers and musicians. No more having to wait for the Hollywood machine or the recording industry moguls to sit up and take notice of talent (which they won't do if it bes not accompanied by the luck of the DNA draw when it comes to physical appearance, by the way, haven't you noticed???) All artisans have been liberated by the internet, no longer beholden to having some corporation agree to produce our materials for us anymore. With a little ingenuity and research ANYONE can learn to produce his own a movie short, music, web site, blog, online community, etc. and shine abroad the light God has given them -- for free, just about.
I agree that the Internet has removed many of the barriers that once existed and makes it easier and cheaper to distribute.

However, if one were to become as wildly popular and have the same number of simultaneous viewers as God TV or TBN, the illusion of "free" goes right out the window. As soon as your webhost realizes that you're sucking down bandwidth like crazy, you can bet you'll be required to have dedicated hosting. And that ain't free.

Television has severely bloated overhead and comes with a high moral cost as well, with the whole allure of "fame" and the deceit of the fashion industry and all the ludicrous notions about having to live at a certain "level" in terms of flashiness and expense in order to mingle with others of the same caliber, etc. None of that garbage marred the apostles' presentation and while our times bes not theirs nor our culture/society the same, the notion of good stewardship has not changed. Throwing money around for "TV Star" clothes, cars, accoutrements and perks while others go hungry bes more than just wasteful or poor stewardship; it bes absolutely and unequivocally SIN. The old-school televangelists of the 1980s have already given churchy "superstardom" a rancid and abhorrent name and reputation for slime, snake oil, and hypocrisy, and some of their modern counterparts don't seem to be improving on this formula any.
TV does not come with a moral cost and neither does the Internet. They are both simply communication mediums. It is how they are used where morality enters the picture.

Look at all the porn that proliferates into living rooms across the globe straight from the Internet. But that doesn't mean "the Internet" is immoral.

Any communication medium can be used for good or evil. The method of delivery carries with it no bearing on the morality contained in the content communicated.

[Alpine]

Hey everybody! Look! I found a website that says Christianity is false!!!!
(http://www.geocities.com/fuzzyquark/christian_index.html)

[probinson]

Hey everybody! Look! I found a website that says Christianity is false!!!!
(http://www.geocities.com/fuzzyquark/christian_index.html)
I bet it was hard to find too! ;)

[~RENEE~]

Hey everybody! Look! I found a website that says Christianity is false!!!!
(http://www.geocities.com/fuzzyquark/christian_index.html)Well it's on the internet so it must be true. Right?

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Be sure that very little on the Internet is "free". Want to display your art on Ebay? Then you'll abide by Ebay's policies and pay the "listing fee" and the "closing fee" and every other fee that they charge.

Want to host it on your own site and sell it that way? That's cool, but you'll likely end up giving PayPal their percentage of the transaction when the sale goes through.

Nothing is free.

Posting images on Photobucket or Tinypic.com or other image hosting sites bes free. Many internet providers offer modest web space as part of the package when you pay for monthly internet access and tons of free sites on the web offer small-scale web hosting. You can buy a domain for about $12.99/year and point it to that space -- or for about the same price monthly, host it on GoDaddy (about $120/year) complete with database access and gobs of open-source tools with which you could build an entire community featuring real-time chat, forum boards, image galleries, and more. You don't need eBay -- it costs nothing to upload images of your artwork and stick a Paypal button (which Paypal will generate for you on their site) underneath to handle the transaction.

If you bes not finding free or nearly-free places to store and run things on the web, as well as software applications to use for producing them, you just don't know where to look. Word. Moriah has worked in IT for 10 years now and been online since 1995. It could provide you with a list of resources you could probably find yourself by Googling the correct search terms, such as "free image hosting" or "open source video software". Download sites abound offering freewares and sharewares legally obtainable for a couple mouse clicks and nothing more.

TV does not come with a moral cost ... Any communication medium can be used for good or evil. The method of delivery carries with it no bearing on the morality contained in the content communicated.You bes entitled to your own opinion on this, but it does not make your opinion reality. Moriah disagrees with your opinion, even though it agrees with it in principle it has observed that certain milieus alter people in a number of subtle ways once they get involved with them. Television bes one of those, it has observed, which has a whole slimy "culture" attached to it -- in fact much of big corporate media be it TV or magazine publishers tend to be exceedingly exploitive. As someone who for a time got frequently sought for television and magazine interviews due to the success of a certain underground website it ran for several years, it well knows how callousedly lying and corrupt media types can be, pretending they want to "get your story told" only to abuse and manipulate the material in it to fit their preconceived agendas.

Moriah does not know what, if any, firsthand experience you have with these industries, but your mileage may vary.

[probinson]

Posting images on Photobucket or Tinypic.com or other image hosting sites bes free.
That's true, but only as long as you don't exceed your bandwidth allocation. If you get 100,000 people viewing images, it wouldn't take long before you surpassed that quota, and you'd be seeing the "This user has exceeded their monthly bandwidth quota" image, and getting emails from Photobucket asking you to purchase a premium account.
Many internet providers offer modest web space as part of the package when you pay for monthly internet access and tons of free sites on the web offer small-scale web hosting. You can buy a domain for about $12.99/year and point it to that space -- or for about the same price monthly, host it on GoDaddy (about $120/year) complete with database access and gobs of open-source tools with which you could build an entire community featuring real-time chat, forum boards, image galleries, and more. You don't need eBay -- it costs nothing to upload images of your artwork and stick a Paypal button (which Paypal will generate for you on their site) underneath to handle the transaction.
That's all well and good if you plan to have only 50 simultaneous users, and I would agree. I pay $49.95/6 months of hosting. I could not begin to support traffic like CF has, much less support the viewership of TBN or GodTV on that hosting package.

I have what you mention. But I don't have 100,000 viewers either.

And PayPal is not free either. When people use the PayPal button to donate to my church's youth ministry, PayPal takes their percentage.

If you bes not finding free or nearly-free places to store and run things on the web, as well as software applications to use for producing them, you just don't know where to look. Word. Moriah has worked in IT for 10 years now and been online since 1995. It could provide you with a list of resources you could probably find yourself by Googling the correct search terms, such as "free image hosting" or "open source video software". Download sites abound offering freewares and sharewares legally obtainable for a couple mouse clicks and nothing more.
You're preaching to the choir here. FTR, I have 13 years experience in computer sciences and web site design. I am the systems administrator for the Engineering deparment where I work. I facilitate our DBMS between the US, Mexico, and China. And I betcha I got freeware apps on my home PC you've never even heard of. ;)

None of this is the point. Your suggestion was that this could REPLACE the current broadcast system. So, to do an apples-to-apples comparison and support the same number of people that are currently served simultaneously by TBN and GodTV, one can't look to the free web host and Photobucket. A $12.99 shared web hosting account isn't going to cut it. You're looking at dedicated hosting, dedicated lines.. these things are not cheap, much less free. I believe our company pays somwhere in the ballpark of $1,000/month for our dedicated T1 line.

You are correct, that if you just want to create a blog and post your thoughts for a handful of people to read, or even start a small community or forum (like I did), it's very inexpensive to do so. However, if you're talking about having the same level of penetration that exists today in the viewership of GodTV or TBN, you're horribly mistaken if you think a free web host and Photobucket account is going to cut it.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

OK ... it bes not aware that it had stated one could replace the other. Could you please go back to its original postings and locate what made you think that?

Out of curiosity how many people do you think watch GodTV? How can unique viewings be measured for such a medium (given that you raised in another post the issue of how the number of website hits does not reflect the number of unique individual viewers)

[probinson]

OK ... it bes not aware that it had stated one could replace the other. Could you please go back to its original postings and locate what made you think that?
In your first post in this conversation, you stated this (emphasis added);
Television -- expensive, clumsy and obsolete ... who needs it???
So the implication there is that we don't need TV. "Who needs it?" In the context of the post where you were talking about the wonderful free things available on the Internet, it seemed like you were saying the free Internet could replace broadcast TV.

Out of curiosity how many people do you think watch GodTV? How can unique viewings be measured for such a medium (given that you raised in another post the issue of how the number of website hits does not reflect the number of unique individual viewers)
I have no idea how many people watch GodTV, and you can't really measure unique viewings (save for Nielsen households).

However, GodTV is broadcast all over the world, so I think 100,000 simultaneous viewers worldwide is probably a fairly conservative estimate, considering that the world population (http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop) is currently somwhere around 6,827,552,650, and 100,000 viewers would only equate to .001% of the total population.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Probe, we guess it would reside in the definition of "replace".

By your definition (as delineated in your earlier post), one small congregation of 30 devoted and sincere born-again, Spirit-filled authentic believers in Christ could never "replace" 500 mega-churches of roughly 3500-4000 members each, operating under 10 para-church "umbrellas" (or whatever all that stuff bes called), never mind whether 70% of those members bes mere lukewarm pew-warmer "sit in the audience and consume the religious entertainment" types while the other 30% have too many stresses choking out their spiritual life...

By Moriah's definition, however, 30 of the real deal can accomplish infinitely more for the Kingdom Actual than 1.5 million pew-warming religious consumers whose "religion" consists of getting a massive emotional high every Sunday morning and Wednesday night then whining all week at work about how Christians bes "persecuted" because their company considers discussion of religion (along with sex and politics) to be inappropriate for the corporate environment.*

Elijah bes but one man, yet with his fervent prayers did God utilize him to shut and open the heavens of rain. What Christian today does not know his name?

The apostles turned the world upside down with the Gospel of Christ -- only 12 of them in an era of no television, no internet, not even any motorized travel.

Jesus Himself traveled by foot (and occasionally small boat) preaching, teaching and working miracles for a mere 3.5 years. Not even one word written by His own hand survives -- and yet the whole of Christianity and Christendom bes founded upon Him and because of Him.

God does not make use of resources, human skills, OR spiritual talents according to the calculations of the world and human society. You will notice the chief indictment of Moriah's original comments focused on the tremendous bloat of overhead and waste of valuable resources. God does not require fancy, expensive, gilded popinjays posing and cavorting before cameras enjoying the applause of men to get His work done. Taking the Gospel into the whole world does not require that it be available by satellite feed, and much of what passes for it which bes available by that means the world would be better off not receiving in the first place.
___________________________________
* Being hypothetical persons only for purposes of illustrating the point ... please note this bes not any kind of indictment against megachurches, parachurches or large churches whatsoever, nor those who attend them -- merely using them as an object of contrast to make a point about human measures of size, funding, etc. versus the power of the Spirit of God.

[probinson]

You raise good points, and while I am no huge fan of much of the programming on TBN or GodTV, I also recognize its effectiveness in spreading the Gospel.

Our very own dkbwarrior has a testimony of how we was saved watching TBN while he was in prison. That may well have never happened if it were not for TBN.

So while I understand what you're saying, and I come from a small congregation of 30 people myself, I also do not discount the place in the body or the effectiveness of the "mega-church" and/or TBN and satellite broadcasts.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

The only transmission that informed Moriah that "nothing in the universe is ever wasted" came from a source announcing itself only as "a broadcast from channel 23" which got preceded and concluded with the infamous five-tone sequence from Close Encounters. The experience occurred somewhere around 4 a.m. approximately two decades ago and lasted all of probably one minute and twenty-three seconds, or thereabouts. Even so, it became one whats never been forgotten. But that does not mean it came from Christ.

It had a distinctive "Erisian" flavor to it, even apart from the obvious numerical connection, and brought to mind the silliness of Shirley MacLaine in her full flush of new-age-blossoming standing with her arms outstretched on the seashore proclaiming, "I am God!" and other assorted items assigned to the fruitsbasket. At the time, being an occultist, the notion struck that the universe could utilize anything and everything it wished to furnish the sentient mind an introduction and summons to the Great Mysteries.

Now, Moriah has held this as a fundamental belief all its life, but now it wonders whether this belief does, in fact, contain Truth.

A God who readily employs a stubborn donkey to speak to an even more stubborn reluctant prophet, or who warns that if we hold our own tongues the very stones could cry out, or who even sings to Moriah through secular songs at times, might well and truly be disposed to using anything and everything to communicate with His creatures--indeed. But perhaps Paul summed this dilemma up best when he wrote, "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are expedient: all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify." 1 Corinthians 10:23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=10&verse=23&version=9&context=verse). Interesting how this happens to be verse 23, no less!! :D

[CryoftheNation]

Just to throw something in the mix. I found a great tool for ministries that do want to get online.

Free online TV Streaming (I just typed TB streaming - hmm maybe I am watching a little too much after all! :D). All you need is a camera (with sound) and a pc with internet connection.

www.ustream.tv

Enjoy

God Bless

Simon

[Alpine]

I have a British friend who had started up a small web service. One day he decided to host a fairly large file, a map that he created for a game he liked.

A month later he got a bill in the mail for $7000. Apparently there had been tens of thousands of downloads of his map, and this was eating up his bandwidth. He now makes sure he hosts popular files on third party sites, rather than his own.

My point?

Bandwidth is very expensive. I know that when I watch something like GodTv, they are taking a hit in the pocketbook.

[CryoftheNation]

I have a British friend who had started up a small web service. One day he decided to host a fairly large file, a map that he created for a game he liked.

A month later he got a bill in the mail for $7000. Apparently there had been tens of thousands of downloads of his map, and this was eating up his bandwidth. He now makes sure he hosts popular files on third party sites, rather than his own.

My point?

Bandwidth is very expensive. I know that when I watch something like GodTv, they are taking a hit in the pocketbook.

Absolutely correct. To host your own online tv is extremely expensive. There are options of course. Multi megabite SDSL links which allow you to host your own servers and don't come with a download limit. But you will find that these are VERY expensive as you say. I believe this is the way that God TV do their web tv. It is the cheapest option out there really, but still horrendously expensive when you have to factor in the sheer amount of bandwidth needed for this type of application. We have a 2mb sdsl at work, no limits on amount of traffic, but it is shared as in it has a contention ration of 2:1 which means at times we only get 1mb. That costs us a lot of money and that is only a small fraction of what you would need for video hosting.

The link I posted is great if you are a small ministry wanting to produce weekly or nightly services (ARC Dudley use it to broadcast the dudley revivals!) but it is nowhere near what you would need for a tv station.

God Bless

Simon