Question about the Old Testament

[20MoreMiles]

So, i know that there's the Old Testament and the New Testament. I am just wondering which one is more important? The OT was first and layed the 10 commandments (correct me if i'm wrong), but the NT was after Jesus died for our sins. Should i seek advice from both?

[Brendan1000]

I would say that both are very helpful and don't discount one in favor of the other.

For me, the Old Testament speaks of creation and the foundation of human morality.

The New Testament deals with redemption and how Jesus saved the world. It is important to remember that Jesus says something along the lines of "only through me can you find God" ... don't remember it verbatum but the idea is there.

The New Testament helps me find direction but the Old Testament helps me understand the root moral cause or basis for that direction.

I am fairly new to this though so don't take my opinion as the general trend but I hope it helps.

[Jayangel81]

Hold both equally important. We should be reading the bible as a whole. I always think its easier for a new believer to read through the NT first. Than when you read the OT you really appreciate what Jesus did for you. Most people who start with the OT tend to be scared away because of the judgments of the OT. also they tend to take alot out of context.

follow through with both testements :)

[tapero]

So, i know that there's the Old Testament and the New Testament. I am just wondering which one is more important? The OT was first and layed the 10 commandments (correct me if i'm wrong), but the NT was after Jesus died for our sins. Should i seek advice from both?

The replies have said it well.

If you are fairly new to the bible; you will want to get grounded in Jesus' teachings as well as teachings by others in the nt.

Questions will arise and so if you can, going to a bible study as well as seeking out other believers for support and help and sharing would be good.

A good church to seek out would be great if you haven't one already, and would look for a Christ centered church; where Jesus is lifted up and where teachings center and point to Jesus.

As you read and grow in Jesus, ask God to reveal truths to you. Often in the bible we read and at times certain things take our focus, and other times we may not notice a teaching. It may speak to you later (truths in the bible) and is all good.

The old testament is awesome, as is the new testament, but the changing of our minds, called renewing in the bible seemed for me to occur in starting with the new testament.

The OT points to Jesus.

You might read some of the nt, say Matthew, Mark, Luke and John which actually doesn't take long, and perhaps go to Genesis in the OT and read some there as well.

And then go on in the nt and go back and forth if you desire.

Blessings and I pray you great joy.
tapero

[20MoreMiles]

Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering because someone said the OT became invalid or redundant after the NT was released, and that it said so in the NT.

[JCFantasy23]

20More, maybe they were meaning something like Leviticus, where some of the older laws were then said to be irrelevant, like eating of shellfish? That is true. When I started reading the bible as a teen and new Christian, I started at the beginning and read to the end. It was funny because when people started talking about stuff Jesus did, I would say, I haven't gotten to that part of the bible yet.

I'm glad I read it in that order. People here are right on starting at the NT for some people, but for me I was already a believer and just wanted to know more. By reading the OT in order, I really found the stories fascinating and felt an extreme closeness to God. I felt like I was growing closer to understanding him a bit more. The NT was a glorious blessing that followed.

[tapero]

Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering because someone said the OT became invalid or redundant after the NT was released, and that it said so in the NT.

Hi, I am thinking that you are speaking about the law having passed.

In the OT God gives law to Israel, the Hebrews, the chosen nation which God used to reveal Himself through in part and for so very much more.

There are some Christians who believe we are to keep the law, and by that they may mean the Levitical law in Leviticus as well as the 10 Commandments, or may mean the 10 Commandments alone to others.

To me, my opinion, is the 10 Commandments were given to Israel.

The Sabbath is outlined in how it is to be done and we know that what many consider keeping the Sabbath (which is one of the commands) is not what God gave to the Israelite to do and not do on the Sabbath.

What I mean by that is you will see some Christians say I keep the Sabbath, or 10 Commandments. If they kept the Sabbath, they would do as it given in the ot, which is not what is done by some who say they keep the Sabbath.

What many mean by such is that they keep Saturday or Sunday as a day to the Lord, a day of rest, etc. Such is not what the Sabbath is only about.

In the 10 Commandments are things to do and not to do. It is my opinion and understanding that it is not given to me to keep the Sabbath, as again, I do not do what is described to be done and not done on the Sabbath as given to the Israelites.

As to the rest, the do's and don't's in the 10 Commandments. The ones which are sins, will always be sin, and we are not to sin, but to me, is not because I keep the 10 commandments cause as I explained, I do not as I do not keep the Sabbath as again imo was given to Israel.

But the sins listed in the 10 Commandments are still sins today and those of course we strive as Christians to not sin.

What I'm saying is I can tell that the 10 commandments are not given to me, or believers today as was given to the Israelites and if the Sabbath is not kept as proscribed in the bible, which it for most (believers) is not done as proscribed, they are not keeping the 10 commandments then.

Again, many take it to simply mean a day of rest and worship of the Lord, and is not only what the Sabbath is about.

There are believers who do keep as is proscribed in detail what is and is not to be done on the Sabbath today.

To those and any who so honor God in any way, whether I agree or disagree if the Sabbath is given to us today, I am blessed and honored to have brothers and sisters in Christ who do so honor God by keeping the Sabbath as well as those who say they do, even though not doing as proscribed what is to be done.

So the sin in the 10 commandments is still sin, however, not keeping the sabbath is not a sin, as was given to Israel and not us, in my opinion.

Back on topic.

The old testament is vital to understanding and learning much about many things, God, and so very much more.

For example; the sacrifice system is given. If one studies such will be so blessed as will have more understanding and insight into all Jesus accomplished by his death and resurrection.

So for those who say the OT is redundant or passed away, they are generally speaking about the levitical law and the 10 commandments.

The Levitical law can not be kept because there is no temple to do the sacrifices and sometthings such as stoning can't be done etc, but some brothers and sisters in Christ, often Jewish, though not necessarily, they may be Messianic, or just try to keep that law, they are keeping the parts which can be kept as again, some can not.

Depending on one's beliefs and understandings and Christians have many different understandings but many believe that we are not to keep the law, and I am one of those, meaning the law in the ot.

Again, others believe differently.

As you read the bible you will get your own understanding.

Try not to be so influenced by what pastors/theologians/commentaries etc say; try to always find out for yourself why you believe what you believe.

I dislike much of theology/doctrine out there which are very commonly accepted and believed by many.

Won't say more than that for now, but the best is always to find out why you believe what you believe without going to another persons reason, explanation/theology/teaching as all it is, is another persons understanding and we are capable of having our own, and you'll find so very many scriptures that do not fit at all, far from it, from the very much commnly accepted teachings/theology out there.

While those who have great knowledge of language, history, etc, yes is awesome, but doesn't matter; ponder things much, as you'll see that there are many theologians all with different takes and understandings and all using scripture to back their positions, even though another will also back theirs with totally different reasoning and scripture.

take care,
tapero

[Bellicus]

So, i know that there's the Old Testament and the New Testament. I am just wondering which one is more important? The OT was first and layed the 10 commandments (correct me if i'm wrong), but the NT was after Jesus died for our sins. Should i seek advice from both?

Study the new testament first ( a good start is the gospel of John), and then when you feel sure about what the christian faith is there is alot of usefull reading in the OT, to understand better what the christian faith is, and how it has evolved from Adam to Jesus.

[20MoreMiles]

So for those who say the OT is redundant or passed away, they are generally speaking about the levitical law and the 10 commandments.

The Levitical law can not be kept because there is no temple to do the sacrifices and sometthings such as stoning can't be done etc, but some brothers and sisters in Christ, often Jewish, though not necessarily, they may be Messianic, or just try to keep that law, they are keeping the parts which can be kept as again, some can not.


Thanks tapero.

I have a question about the part that i quoted. You say that there is no temple to do sacrifices and things like stoning can't be done, but isn't this what God commands us to do? Shouldn't we obey the Holy word or at least do something closely related?

[tapero]

Thanks tapero.

I have a question about the part that i quoted. You say that there is no temple to do sacrifices and things like stoning can't be done, but isn't this what God commands us to do? Shouldn't we obey the Holy word or at least do something closely related?

Hi, As you read the nt you may or will see that we are not to keep the laws in leviticus. If you've not done that yet then perhaps your question is a little early.

Also in leviticus people were to be stoned for violating the law, and no I do not believe that God would want us to ever do anything like that - stone people.

Again, that was for Israel only, Israel meaning the Hebrew people and those who joined themselves to Israel. Any who did so also had to keep the law.

If you are leaning to the thought that one should try to do things in Leviticus which can be done (though again, in my opinion and from the nt) we are not given such; but if you feel so led, then perhaps looking into churches which teach doing such.

In the law, people are put to death if commit certain sins, (one being for not keeping the sabbath as given, such as working on it etc.)

I think would first be best to read and study the nt and then you would see how you understand, believe etc, as regard the law.

Take care,
tapero

[Nadiine]

Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering because someone said the OT became invalid or redundant after the NT was released, and that it said so in the NT.
:wave:
Nope, that's not true.

As far as how the law works, there's a good reason why certain ones are still valid today and certain ones we aren't under any longer (under a covenant of Grace that Jesus brought us into by the cross)...

long story short is that Jesus "fulfilled" the law for us - cancelling out a part of the laws that pertained to proper atonement and worship of God for the Israelites.
We no longer need or use those ceremonial/religious laws becuz Jesus became those things for us. When we accept Him, we accept His one payment for sin - so we aren't needing the sacrificial system & religious rituals. (those involve all the blood laws, sacrifice, feasts & other rituals).
We have access now to God directly thru Christ - our Mediator.

The other set of laws we aren't under from the OT are Israel's CIVIL laws.
An example would be that people in California aren't under the civil laws of the state of New York or Michigan. They have their own civil laws and different penalties for breaking them. Same with penalties of the OT law.

We ARE under all the MORAL laws of the OT. That does include Levitical laws on sexuality - and defines them all for us.
And the moral laws are also repeated in the NT at length.
1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:8-11, Eph. 4-6, Galations 5 & others.

The principle for that is Love. Jesus taught that LOVE fulfills the entire OT Law - all laws hinge on love of God and humanity (neighbor as self).

Rom 13
9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
"YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

So obeying the moral laws of God, means we are loving God and others.
That's why they aren't gone away; otherwise, we'd be able to commit murder, rape, theft, etc. and it wouldn't be wrong.

So what Jesus didn't FULFILL for us (becoming what we no longer need to do anymore thru ritual & ceremony/sacrifice), and Civil laws that pertained only to Israel; all who lived within the gates, we are under the moral laws from the OT.

Last note on law - the principles taught in it are still important. They taught dietary laws for health (do'nt eat fat, blood, scavenger animals, etc.), proper farming for proper land use/not violating/stripping the land, etc.
We should still pay attn. to laws - I follow alot of dietary laws becuz they're for my health.

It's a very intense & detailed subject to go over, but I hope a little overview at least helps break it down some & make a little more sense?
=)

[20MoreMiles]

Hi, As you read the nt you may or will see that we are not to keep the laws in leviticus. If you've not done that yet then perhaps your question is a little early.

Also in leviticus people were to be stoned for violating the law, and no I do not believe that God would want us to ever do anything like that - stone people.

Again, that was for Israel only, Israel meaning the Hebrew people and those who joined themselves to Israel. Any who did so also had to keep the law.

If you are leaning to the thought that one should try to do things in Leviticus which can be done (though again, in my opinion and from the nt) we are not given such; but if you feel so led, then perhaps looking into churches which teach doing such.

In the law, people are put to death if commit certain sins, (one being for not keeping the sabbath as given, such as working on it etc.)

I think would first be best to read and study the nt and then you would see how you understand, believe etc, as regard the law.

Take care,
tapero

So we should not obey the Leviticus laws because they were for Israel only? Not saying that you are wrong, but doesn't this hold true for a lot of passages from the Bible?

For instance, Nadiine does take Leviticus as serious laws. How did God intent it?



:wave:
Nope, that's not true.

As far as how the law works, there's a good reason why certain ones are still valid today and certain ones we aren't under any longer (under a covenant of Grace that Jesus brought us into by the cross)...



Hello Nadiine, thanks for your time.

I was wondering in what passages of the NT it says that we no longer need certain laws from the OT because Jesus became those things for us.
I can't recall reading them, and considering God is perfect, i would think it's strange if he made a mistake in the OT.
Thanks in advance.

[suzybeezy]

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

[The Saviour]

the old testament needs more sex scenes

[Nadiine]

So we should not obey the Leviticus laws because they were for Israel only? Not saying that you are wrong, but doesn't this hold true for a lot of passages from the Bible?

For instance, Nadiine does take Leviticus as serious laws. How did God intent it?




Hello Nadiine, thanks for your time.

I was wondering in what passages of the NT it says that we no longer need certain laws from the OT because Jesus became those things for us.
I can't recall reading them, and considering God is perfect, i would think it's strange if he made a mistake in the OT.
Thanks in advance.
Hello, I'm sorry I never got a bold highlight that anyone replied on this thread... so I'm late replying, my apologies. :blush:

I'll gather up some verses for you tomorrow morning and quote them.

See the problem is, when people say that just SOME of the moral laws of Leviticus are still operating & some arent, there's no way to know which you can & can't do at all.
You're left to guess.

Let's take beastiality as 1 example. Beastiality is right underneath the homosexual law in Lev. 18. People will tell you that homosexuality is fine today (that under NT grace, it's not forbidden - and that's becuz Jesus never condemned it in the NT)...
However, Jesus never condemned rape, incest or beastiality either (or sleeping with your step-mother) - are they ok to do today? No.
Additionally, Jesus didn't overturn ANY moral laws in the NT. He only elaborated on some of them - like adultery.
Adultery didn't go away, in fact, He stated that adultery consisted of even lusting after another person other than your spouse. Nobody knew that prior to Jesus' clarification.

So if just some moral laws changed from the OT, which ones & prove why. Yet we can pick the ceremonial laws (sacrificial system, rituals, feasts, unclean laws such as dietary, touching a corpse, unclean after childbirth, touching no blood & all those), you don't see them in the NT.
& civil laws never pertain to other jurisdictions in other cities or states.

Anyways, I'll find some verses for you tomorrow.

=)

[Nadiine]

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
:wave: LOL I just love that siggy!:P

Absolutely, Jesus' fulfillment of law cancels the penalty of law against all who accept Him as their Saviour. :thumbsup: They have a sacrifice for their sin (mandatory by law) - & Christ obeyed the OT law by coming to give His life.
He fulfilled it for us - in obeying it completely (which we cannot be perfect & sinless to obey), and then taking our punishment for that sin upon Himself.

So yep, His law gives LIFE & liberty, the OT kills by letter of law - and it never provided a way of salvation, just pointed to the perfection we need before God & Jesus that would come to cancel out our debt.

The law is such a complicated issue I think, but an interesting study imo.
& there's so much to understand from it all - I doubt I'd ever be able to fully grasp it, I leave that to the Theologians lol
;)