Please explain your interpretation of these two verses

[Jimbeaux]

I have posted the scriptures below in several posts in other threads and they have been passed over without anyone pausing long enough to share their understanding of what they mean. So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3.
His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)
What does these verses say we receive when we become Christians? What do those things include?

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[JimfromOhio]

Subscribing :)

Good thread :)

[GreatistheLord]

Also Romans 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Maybe the key to understanding this is the phrase "through the knowledge of Him", so that we should not expect absolutely anything and everything, but only by praying in the spirit when our desires are sanctified.

If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. John 15:7

[Optimax]

I have posted the scriptures below in several posts in other threads and they have been passed over without anyone pausing long enough to share their understanding of what they mean. So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3. His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)
What does these verses say we receive when we become Christians? What do those things include?

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain




2 Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
KJV

All things that pertain to life and godliness is ours but it is not "automatic".
It requires or is through the knowledge of him.

That means without study of the word and how the kingdom of God operates vesus how the kingdom of the world operates a Christian will not receive and use most of what has been made available to them.

Eph 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
KJV

We are blessed. Question is how do we get it from the spiritual to the here and now.

Same answer as above for Peter.

[Balance]

I have posted the scriptures below in several posts in other threads and they have been passed over without anyone pausing long enough to share their understanding of what they mean. So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3. His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)
What does these verses say we receive when we become Christians? What do those things include?

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain



One thing I can say about you j is that you are consistent - you have never stopped posting the same subjects in four years.

Where in either of those verses does it say we receive these things at the moment of Salvation. That is what you're trying to say - right?

Or is this not a back door into the subject of Baptism in the Holy Spirit again?

[Balance]

But let's look at the verses in context and see if we have something to do with it - or if God does what He wants to regardless of us.

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

It seems to me, the verses show that we have something to do with it.

[JimfromOhio]

But let's look at the verses in context and see if we have something to do with it - or if God does what He wants to regardless of us.

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


It seems to me, the verses show that we have something to do with it.





One of my favorites and I will reply to this tonight. My thoughts are different than yours though. Will explain tonight. But, I will give you a hint: A doctrine called "GRACE". :thumbsup:

[Balance]

One of my favorites and I will reply to this tonight. My thoughts are different than yours though. Will explain tonight. But, I will give you a hint: A doctrine called "GRACE". :thumbsup:

I love the doctrine of Grace and preach it -

But unless you are saying these phrases:

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus ChristAre written in error - or that you know something doctrinally that Peter did not know. Because Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is clearly saying that WE need to do some things.

Will you be addressing this topic specifically, or just posting a tomb full of references about Grace?

I'd actually like to converse with you about this, but it takes a conversation to do that - both parties taking time to read and reply.

[JimfromOhio]

I love the doctrine of Grace and preach it -

But unless you are saying these phrases:

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ
Are written in error - or that you know something doctrinally that Peter did not know. Because Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is clearly saying that WE need to do some things.

Will you be addressing this topic specifically, or just posting a tomb full of references about Grace?

I'd actually like to converse with you about this, but it takes a conversation to do that - both parties taking time to read and reply.





Join us at two locations:
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7260596 Faith versus Grace

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7260274 Understanding Grace when focusing on Faith

[Simon_Templar]

I think the teaching among charismatics that commonly springs from verses like this, that once you are born again you should suddenly have everything, and be everything with a snap of the fingers, and if you aren't then you simply aren't stepping out in faith... is a great disservice.

That is the teaching I was often presented with growing up. Through out my life I have seen people, including those who taught this, repeatedly try to live it by "just stepping out" and instead falling on their faces.

I have seen the utter failure of this teaching lead people to question their salvation, and to question Christianity and the bible.

I was praying for understanding one day. It was during a time when God had been revealing a lot of new understandings to me and my views had been changing as a result.
God gave me the understanding that people have to grow. This is one of the reasons that the imagery of plants is often used in the new testament. We are like plants that have to grow and be tended, and pruned etc.

It is true that everything we need is available to us. It is provided for us, but the real issue is that most people simply aren't ready for much of what God has for us. Its not a matter of spiritual pride, or "I'm more advanced than you" or any of that nonesense. It is simple the fact that people are in different places in their growth and God gives to each what they need, to grow further, and he does not give things that they are not ready for which would harm their growth.

You see many people look at these passages and say "well that means I have all the power of the apostles, I have all the power of God, I have all the ability to get what i want". The problem is that they don't actually need those things, and in spiritual terms, in many cases, those things would infact be harmful to them because they are not ready for them.

Its like a parent buying his kids a car... he would give the car to an older teenager... but no one would give a car to their 4 year old. They may say that the car is for the 4 year old, when he grows up, but only someone who was a complete fool, or cared nothing for their child would actually give the car to the 4 year old and allow the kid to attempt to drive it.

We, in the position of the 4 year old, on the other hand might see the car, maybe even see a different teenager getting a car... and we get it into our heads that we want a car.. that we need a car... so we ask for it and we get upset when we are denied.

These verses speak to me that we can rest from our wanting and our childish "I want I want, I need I need" rants.. and simply trust that God will provide what we need, when we need it. Our spiritual growth is his goal, and he has provided, and will give us, everything necessary for it, when it is necessary.

[Tamara224]

I have posted the scriptures below in several posts in other threads and they have been passed over without anyone pausing long enough to share their understanding of what they mean. So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3.
His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

I think that the rest of the passage actually explains what this means... and that it means God has given us all the tools we need to live rightously (life and godliness):

3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
It says "through these" he (that is, God) has given us his promises. So, he gave us his promises through, what? Through His divine power, His glory and His goodness. And it is through God's fulfilled promises, His glory, power and goodness that we have everything we need.

And what is the purpose of this? It is so that we can participate in the divine nature and escape corruption. IOW, so that we can be righteous, holy, godly.

Basically, this passage is talking about the fact that as new creations in Christ, we have all the tools we need to live godly lives and escape evil and (moral) corruption.

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
All the things pertaining to life and godliness...appear to me to be goodness, knoweldge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love. Our knowledge of God is the faith that we begin with - we believe on Christ and through that faith, God's power, goodness and glory (not to mention grace) work to give us the rest that we need. We add to our faith piece by piece.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)






Again, it's talking about being able to live righteously, the atonement for our sins and the promise of Christ's return:

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For [this word indicates that the thought from the previous sentence is being expounded upon in this one] he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

[Balance]

Join us at two locations:
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7260596 Faith versus Grace

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7260274 Understanding Grace when focusing on Faith

The subject of THIS thread are those verses mentioned - so my question remains the same:

[Drwhat]

Hi Jimbeaux,
Here is (2Peter 1:3 & Eph 1:3), taken from the Concordant Literal New Testament.

2 Peter 1:3 CLNT
So has all of His divine power, that tends to life and devoutness, been presented to us through the recognition of Him Who calls us to His own glory and virtue.

This scripture in 2 Peter simply tells the chosen elect from the many called that they have been given to know the depths of the Lords purpose and true meaning of the gospel of good news and tidings to all men about Jesus Christ the saviour of the world. But you may say doesn't every Christian believe that? Alas, no they don't, in fact most think Jesus is only the saviour of some of the world, which belittles his calling and power, and the cross, and in doing so they cannot see their blindness, how could they, their blind!? But the chosen have the mind of Christ.

1Cor 2:16 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=1co+2:16&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we[the chosen elect] have the mind of Christ.

Now to your second scriptural question. Again if I may be so bold I will quote from the CLNT.

Eph 1:3 CLNT
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ[no trinity there then], Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ, according as He chooses[no free-will there either] us in Him before the disruption of the world[Aions].

Again, the bible being a book that can only be understood properly by the Holy spirit of God revealing Himself in some one to them, is indeed a spiritual blessing, a baptism of fire. The chosen, faithful and true elect know God really is boss, and by His choosing and by His choosing only in His grand plan have some of them in each generation since the cross been given to know the oracles of God, and become sentinals, watchmen, christ's of The Christ, and if people will not hear their voice then Christ will not hear them.

God bless.

[Jimbeaux]

One thing I can say about you j is that you are consistent - you have never stopped posting the same subjects in four years.

Where in either of those verses does it say we receive these things at the moment of Salvation. That is what you're trying to say - right?

Or is this not a back door into the subject of Baptism in the Holy Spirit again?


Oh, come on, B. There are lots of subjects I talk about (as you well know). It’s just that these get your goat. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm414YYUS)

And come to think of it, B, you are pretty consistent yourself in the way you strain everything sacred through your WOF filters.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain











http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZNxdm414YYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb096_ZNxdm414YYUS&utm_id=7924)

[Balance]

Oh, come on, B. There are lots of subjects I talk about (as you well know). It’s just that these get your goat. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm414YYUS)

And come to think of it, you are pretty consistent yourself, B.

~Jim



So..... does that mean you will not be answering my question?

To recap:

Where in either of those verses does it say we receive these things at the moment of Salvation?

[JimfromOhio]

The subject of THIS thread are those verses mentioned - so my question remains the same:
Fine, I will recap to fit into this topic. In the New Testement, I see that many of us do not fully understand how powerful God's grace is and how to have faith under grace. How much grace can do for us without an ounce of effort from our flesh. 1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

There is so much focus on the merit of faith but not enough of grace of faith. God didn't give us the burden to work on our faith but rather to focus on HIM as we grow in faith in HIS GRACE. When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, then Jesus through His GRACE just flows out of us because if we DON'T, trying to do the Lord's work in our own strength is the most confusing, exhausting, and tedious of all work. It is God's will for us to be Spirit-filled (Ephesians 5:17-18). Some stumble because they rely on their own works rather than the Holy Spirit. Christian faith is inward, not outward because we are in the spirit and not in the flesh. In Ephesians 5:18 where the present tense of the verb in Greek means: "Keep on being filled with the Spirit".

2 Corinthians 12:9
But God said to me (Paul), "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

2 Peter, Chapter 1, verses 5 through 9: (http://jimreformedtheology.blogspot.com/2008/01/in-measure-of-faith-with-works-are.html)
"For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins."

(Verse 5) "make every effort" (diligence): 1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Philippians 3:12-15 "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you."

(Verse 5) "to add to your faith" : James 2:14-26 "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith; I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,' and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."

[Balance]

:doh::doh::doh:

[JimfromOhio]

:doh::doh::doh:
All doctrinal beliefs are problematic. ;)

[Balance]

All doctrinal beliefs are problematic. ;)


;);) Agreed - and yours are certainly no exception to that! ;);)

[Jimbeaux]

So..... does that mean you will not be answering my question?

To recap:

Where in either of those verses does it say we receive these things at the moment of Salvation?



So, where does it say (or even hint) that you don’t?

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Jimbeaux]

:doh::doh::doh:

Too much pounding your forehead can rattle your brains.

Wait, that might explain some things.

Just kidding, B.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Balance]

So, where does it say (or even hint) that you don’t?



40 years in the ministry - holding several offices in the church and this is the best answer I can get from you?

WOW

[JimfromOhio]

I have posted the scriptures below in several posts in other threads and they have been passed over without anyone pausing long enough to share their understanding of what they mean. So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3.
His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)
What does these verses say we receive when we become Christians? What do those things include?

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain



Okay.... I am back as promised. :)

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Reading Peter saying, "His divine power hath given unto us all things" (v. 3). When we became a believer, we gained instant possession of all things that pertain to life and godliness according to God's grace as well as His will. The source of all things pertaining to life and godliness is God's divine power called GRACE which having God's own overwhelming energy that is concentrated on providing all our needs. God gave us our potential in terms that we didn't earn it because it was undeserved and offered by grace according to His Soveriegn Will. Our salvation provides everything necessary to transform us on the inside and the outside that therefore we have no excuse for not living godly lives because of God's sufficient GRACE. God is constantly leading us (Rom. 8:14) and all we need to do is apply our will to HIS will to follow because God has already given us strength beyond our wildest dreams (Phil. 4:13).

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)

In that verse, Paul wrote that we have been blessed "with all spiritual blessings." The Greek word translated "spiritual" (pneumatikos) in the New Testament always refers to the work of the Holy Spirit that ALL God's blessings are given to us through the power and grace of the Holy Spirit. We have to remember that we Christians are not citizens of the earth as we are citizens of heaven. Philippians 3:20 says plainly, "Our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ." Christians have a dual citizenship however earth is a sinful place while Heaven is beautiful and sinless that we are to remember that we are citizens of heaven even though we live in a foreign world. We CAN'T live here on earth as we will in Heaven. we are in Christ His position is our position, His privilege is our privilege, His possessions are our possessions, and His practice our practice. We are significant not because of who we are, but because of who we are in Christ. As Paul said, "By the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10).

With that in mind, I am reminded that "God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work." (2 Corinthians 9:8). Working on of faith means nothing if you don't act on your faith. If you don't act, then you don't have faith. Through GRACE, "Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." (James 1:4). Grace of heart is a gift from God and this has nothing to do with the thorns because God change our circumstances by changing us internally, by allowing Him to lift us above our present thorn and He will lead us into His will. :thumbsup:

[dkbwarrior]

I have posted the scriptures below in several posts in other threads and they have been passed over without anyone pausing long enough to share their understanding of what they mean. So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3.
His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)
What does these verses say we receive when we become Christians? What do those things include?


It doesn't say that we recieve anything. Absolutely nothing.

You are confusing the word give with the word receive. God has given us all things, (this phrase is a New Testament idiom, and means the promises of God), these promises are otherwise known as blessings.

A blessing is simply words. Promises in the Bible. They have all been given to us.

But receiving, that is a different matter all together. Receiving requires knowledge of the gift first. If you don't know you have a gift, you cannot receive it.

That is why we partake by the knowledge of Him. Because He is the Word. As we learn the Word, we get to know Him better. Then we can receive what He has given.

Peace...

[Jere209]

This might be lengthy, might not be.. :)

I don't like to take scriptures out of context, so I have to start at the beginning..
Beginning with 2 Peter.
The letter of Peter opens and closes with the theme of cultivating Christian maturity (1:2-11, 3:14-18) "Knowledge" in 2 Peter is more than intellectual perception. It is an experience of God and Christ that results in moral transformation as seen in 1:2-3. This is the true gnosis (knowledge), which combats heretical Gnostic influence. The basis for that knowledge is the Scriptures, called the "prophetic word" (1:19-21) and the apostolic teaching (3:1-2, 15-16).


The concerns of 2 Peter are also concerns of the contemporary church as it counteracts worldliness and humanistic philosophy. There are still false teachers who deal in half truths regarding the Christian faith, and this letter of Peter's provides clear response to them. ;) This general epistle to the church is not addressed to a certain specific group. Peter announces that his purpose in writing is so that his readers can be "partakers of the divine nature". In personal character and faith, nothing will be withheld from the people of God "to make your call and election sure...so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ". In v3-11: "Divine power has given to us all things". Peter goes on to declare that "all things" are directly related to knowing the Lord, becoming like Him, and growing in character; ..We are then acountable to live within this "power" as His people, whom the Lord has "cleansed from his old sins"..


Now, onto Ephesians 1:3:
Spiritual blessings refers to divine privileges and resources available now, that is, chosen, adopted, forgiven. 1 Cor 12:1 uses the same Greek word for "spiritual" in referring to the gifts of the Holy Spirit , evidencing that they are among the "blessings" included.
Some of the most meaningful and reassuring truths in all the Bible are found here about God's eternal interest in His people and His absolute commitment to bring His will to pass in their lives. We have been chosen, predestined, adopted, redeemed, and forgiven. What more can be said about the unsearchable richness of God's love for us in Jesus Christ?
In v 1:3-6 the passage offers the most beautiful and complete statement of our acceptance in Christ and the lavish love of Father God for His children. "From before the foundation of the world" we were chosen in Christ as His children, and our predestination is found in the infinite knowledge of the Lord toward us. Our praise is for the God who knew us before we knew Him, who loved us before we could love back, and who has accepted us in Christ even when our sin is so abhorrent that we cannot accept ourselves.

:) went a bit further, but it's hard for me to pick a scripture out of context as I stated before.

Jere

[Jimbeaux]

It doesn't say that we recieve anything. Absolutely nothing.

You are confusing the word give with the word receive. God has given us all things, (this phrase is a New Testament idiom, and means the promises of God), these promises are otherwise known as blessings.

A blessing is simply words. Promises in the Bible. They have all been given to us.

But receiving, that is a different matter all together. Receiving requires knowledge of the gift first. If you don't know you have a gift, you cannot receive it.

That is why we partake by the knowledge of Him. Because He is the Word. As we learn the Word, we get to know Him better. Then we can receive what He has given.

Peace...

Sounds good, but …

Man, DK, the way you can boogie around with the English language to make it say what you want, you should audition for Dancing with the Stars.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Jimbeaux]

40 years in the ministry - holding several offices in the church and this is the best answer I can get from you?

WOW


Yep, that’s all I got for you, B.

Maybe if you would leave out snide remarks like, “Or is this not a back door into the subject of Baptism in the Holy Spirit again?” you would get a more acceptable answer to your questions.


And, BTW, that’s 41 years in ministry.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Elijah2]

“His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue.” (2 Peter 1.3)

“His divine power” is the “power of His resurrection” (Phil. 3:10) that through it “we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us” (Phil. 4:13), and “by (HIS) glory and (HIS) virtue” we are attracted to HIM as we see HIS authority and power that converts sinners like us. Our power to grow comes from HIS “divine power”, and allows us to participate in HIS “divine nature” that keeps us from falling to Satan’s snares.


“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” (Ephesians 1.3)

Our Lord Jesus Christ blesses us, and we know that our blessings are by knowing HIM, and are of the supernatural realm of His Kingdom through those “heavenly things”. They are not health, wealth, and prosperity of those “earthly things”. But, knowing that we are saved that we are HIS children, and HE gives us Spiritual Gifts, and the power to do His Work and Will, maintaining an intimate relationship with HIM. This is so, because we are seated with our Lord Jesus Christ in “heavenly places”.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[Elijah2]

Salvation is our True Identity in our Lord Jesus Christ

Romans 3:24:
We are justified (declared "not guilty" of sin).

Romans 8:1:
No condemnation awaits us.

Romans 8:2:
We are set free from the law of sin and death.

1 Corinthians 1:2:
We are sanctified and made acceptable in Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30:
We are righteous and holy in Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:22:
We will be made alive at the resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:17:
We are a new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:21:
We receive God's righteousness.

Galatians 3:28:
We are one in Christ with all other believers.

Ephesians 1:3:
We are blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Ephesians 1:4:
We are holy, blameless, and covered with God's love.

Ephesians 1:5, 6:
We are adopted as God's children.

Ephesians 1:7:
Our sins are taken away, and we are forgiven.

Ephesians 1:10, 11:
We will be brought under Christ's headship.

Ephesians 1:13:
We are marked as belonging to God by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:6:
We have been raised up to sit with Christ in glory.

Ephesians 2:10:
We are God's work of art.

Ephesians 2:13:
We have been brought near to God.

Ephesians 3:6:
We share in the promise in Christ.

Ephesians 3:12:
We can come with freedom and confidence into God's presence.

Ephesians 5:29, 30:
We are members of Christ's body, the church.

Colossians 2:10:
We have been given fullness in Christ.

Colossians 2:11:
We are set free from our sinful nature.

2 Timothy 2:10:
We will have eternal glory.

[GreatistheLord]

Faith without works is dead,
Grace without Faith, knowledge and love, even moreso.

Jon

[JimfromOhio]

It doesn't say that we recieve anything. Absolutely nothing.

You are confusing the word give with the word receive. God has given us all things, (this phrase is a New Testament idiom, and means the promises of God), these promises are otherwise known as blessings.

A blessing is simply words. Promises in the Bible. They have all been given to us.

But receiving, that is a different matter all together. Receiving requires knowledge of the gift first. If you don't know you have a gift, you cannot receive it.

That is why we partake by the knowledge of Him. Because He is the Word. As we learn the Word, we get to know Him better. Then we can receive what He has given.

Peace...
The Greek word translated "blessed" is eulogetos, from which we derive the English word eulogy. It means to "speak well of someone." Reading James says that "every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning" (1:17). By God's grace, we are blessed unconditionally according to His will.

Regarding "Knowledge"
I think Romans 15:14 puts this word knowledge into context and gives it balance where Paul writes, "And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able also to admonish one another. " By looking at the proper action in the context of goodness is that we can discern between good and evil and that we can apply the knowledge and understanding of God's word, and God's will, into our lives and into the lives of others. After "knowledge", we see the word, "self-control" that many of us fail to understand, receive and live out God's conditional grace, forgiveness and practice of faith as Paul explains in 2 Corinthians 8:7 But just as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us —see that you also excel in this grace of giving. Understanding "knowledge" is looking at Titus 1:2 "a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time."

[Simon_Templar]

to say that "blessing" is mere words carries an impotence that I don't think is ever really part of the biblical world view. The greek does essentially mean "good words" but it is only the modern worldview which would ever say "just words" or "mere words".

These are, after all, the words of God... God never speaks "mere words". His words are never without power, and they always accomplish what they proclaim.

[pdudgeon]

So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3.
His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)

What does these verses say we receive when we become Christians? What do those things include?

one thing that is commonly overlooked is that we receive a new citizenship when we become Christians. We become citizens of a heavenly kingdom.

In that light, the above verses make more sense. Every blessing available in heaven is ours, and all things that pertain to life and godliness are ours. We access them thru the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue.:amen:

[GreatistheLord]

one thing that is commonly overlooked is that we receive a new citizenship when we become Christians. We become citizens of a heavenly kingdom.

In that light, the above verses make more sense. Every blessing available in heaven is ours, and all things that pertain to life and godliness are ours. We access them thru the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue.:amen:

Yes, they become ours through knowledge firstly, and then by active faith

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force." Matt 11:12

Tell someone who suffers deep depression that they just need knowledge or grace to recieve healing. :liturgy:

[Elijah2]

I have posted the scriptures below in several posts in other threads and they have been passed over without anyone pausing long enough to share their understanding of what they mean. So I thought I would open a separate thread just to discuss your interpretation of what the verses are saying about what we were given when we were saved.

Please explain your understanding of 2 Peter 1.3 and Ephesians 1.3.
His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. (2 Peter 1.3)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Ephesians 1.3)
What does these verses say we receive when we become Christians? What do those things include?

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain


Hey Jimbo, I feel neglected that my comments in Item 28 and 29 didn't rate a mention.:)

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[JimfromOhio]

Yes, they become ours through knowledge firstly, and then by active faith

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force." Matt 11:12

Tell someone who suffers deep depression that they just need knowledge or grace to recieve healing. :liturgy:
grace to receive healing? I gotta hear this.

[Jere209]

Hey Jimbo, I feel neglected that my comments in Item 28 and 29 didn't rate a mention.:)

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.
LOL, neither did mine, so don't take it personal..:P

[GreatistheLord]

grace to receive healing? I gotta hear this.

Exactly. I'm saying that it is a meanless theology that has no power.

I dont think this is going anywhere.

God bless

[Jimbeaux]

Exactly. I'm saying that it is a meanless theology that has no power.

I dont think this is going anywhere.

God bless

The OP is simply asking what you believe the two verses in the OP are saying, not for you to prove a point. Everyone in this SFPC forum rejects a “theology that has not power”, that’s why we are called Pentecostal-Charismatic.

You are right, this kind of statement in this kind of thread in this kind of forum leads us no where.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Jimbeaux]

Hey Jimbo, I feel neglected that my comments in Item 28 and 29 didn't rate a mention.:)

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

That’s because my main purpose in this thread is not to debate the issue but to gain a better understanding of how the verses in the OP are interpreted by P/Cs who believe in that the Baptism of the Spirit and/or being Spirit filled happens subsequent to and correspondent with our salvation; that at the time we enter the kingdom we are given only part of the package and not the whole package of tools we need to lead the full Christian life. I know what I believe those verses in the OP say but if there are weaknesses in what I believe I don’t mind having holes shot in my belief.

I'm writing a paper to be published on the subject and want to use this thread (and your comments) to test what I believe--you know, prove all things.

Thanks for your input. I have read your views. :thumbsup:

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Jere209]

That’s because my main purpose in this thread is not to debate the issue but to gain a better understanding of how the verses in the OP are interpreted by P/Cs who believe in that the Baptism of the Spirit and/or being Spirit filled happens subsequent to and correspondent with our salvation; that at the time we enter the kingdom we are given only part of the package and not the whole package of tools we need to lead the full Christian life. I know what I believe those verses in the OP say but if there are weaknesses in what I believe I don’t mind having holes shot in my belief.

I'm writing a paper to be published on the subject and want to use this thread (and your comments) to test what I believe--you know, prove all things.

Thanks for your input. I have read your views. :thumbsup:

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain



and, did you read mine? ;)

[Jimbeaux]

and, did you read mine? ;)

Yes, I’m reading them all.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Elijah2]

That’s because my main purpose in this thread is not to debate the issue but to gain a better understanding of how the verses in the OP are interpreted by P/Cs who believe in that the Baptism of the Spirit and/or being Spirit filled happens subsequent to and correspondent with our salvation; that at the time we enter the kingdom we are given only part of the package and not the whole package of tools we need to lead the full Christian life. I know what I believe those verses in the OP say but if there are weaknesses in what I believe I don’t mind having holes shot in my belief.

I'm writing a paper to be published on the subject and want to use this thread (and your comments) to test what I believe--you know, prove all things.

Thanks for your input. I have read your views. :thumbsup:

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain



That's okay Jimbo, not thinned-skinned, wasn't even looking for a debate.

But thanks.:thumbsup:

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.