Signs, Wonders, and Evangelism

[BenAdam]

Continuing the topic from another thread.

Are signs and wonders valid tools for evangelism? Please present scriptures to support your stance.

[Tamara224]

Thanks for starting this thread, BenAdam.

I'll repost what I did in the other thread...


Could you please cite the verses you're referring to and explain what they have to do with evangelism?

All of the events I referred to are recorded in Acts. You should be familiar with them. If you are not, refresh your memory by reading the entire book.

They have to do with evangelism because the Apostles were evangelizing.
OK. Can you please tell me why you believe that the verses I cited are wrong?
I don't believe the verses you cited are wrong. I believe you are narrowly cherry-picking verses and interpreting them wrongly to prop up a mistaken view of the purpose of signs and wonders.


That isn't evangelism.

According to 1 Cor 1:18, is it the preaching of the cross that is the power of God or is it signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 1:21, is it signs and wonders that saves them that believe or is it the preaching of the Gospel?

In 1 Cor 2:4, is God's power demonstrated through the preaching of the Gospel or through signs and wonders?

According to Titus 1:3, is the word of God made manifest through signs and wonders or through preaching?

According to Acts 16:10, did God call them to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to Romans 10:8-9, is it preaching or signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 1:17, did God call him to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 15:11, did they believe as a result of the preaching of the Gospel? Or did they believe as a result of seeing signs and wonders?

In Galatians 1:16, why did Paul say that God revealed the Son in him? To preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to Colosians 1:28, how are we supposed to present every man perfect? By preaching the Gospel or by signs and wonders?

According to Isaiah 52:7, does God commend the preaching of the Gospel or signs and wonders?

When the Ethiopian eunuch found Phillip, was he saved as a result of the preaching of the Gospel or by signs and wonders?

In each case, it's preaching the Gospel, not signs and wonders.

I believe these are the verses you are referring to? I'm not going to take each one at a time... that would be a waste of time. In their contexts I believe their meanings are obvious.

They just don't really prove the point you seem to be trying to make. Yes, we are told to preach the Gospel and not commanded to perform signs and wonders. That's because we don't perform the signs and wonders - God does. If we are preaching the Gospel, God will confirm Himself through signs and wonders when appropriate, according to God's will.

None of the verses you cited say that signs and wonders will not be a part of evangelism. While we can see from the book of Acts that, in practice, there certainly a lot of "Acts" done by the Apostles which were signs and wonders. They were clearly evangelists, going to various different places and preaching the word of God. And signs and wonders followed them.

Neither the preaching nor the miracles saved anyone, btw.

It is Christ who saves people. Through His death and resurrection, His Blood that was shed - He does the atoning work.

It is by preaching that God has chosen to get the word (that is, the Gospel) out to people that He loves them and is willing to be reconciled to them and has made a way to do it - through the blood of His own son.

Signs and wonders follow the preaching of the word (evangelism = preaching the word, the Good News) to confirm that it's not just talk, there's real power behind it. Signs and wonders are meant to be signs (that's why they're called signs) that God is real, more powerful than humans or any other god that humans have worshipped, and He has the power, ability and desire to save lost sheep.

That is why signs and wonders and the preaching of the word (aka the Gospel) go hand in hand.

No one is saved by the signs and wonders - and no one in this thread has said they are. Neither is anyone saved from just hearing the Gospel (Matthew 13:18-23) one must also believe in Jesus (John 5:24) and do the word (John 14:23). People are saved by the Blood of the Lamb.

Signs and wonders and evangelism are the tools God has chosen to use to spread the Word.

[map4]

Thanks for starting this thread, BenAdam.

I'll repost what I did in the other thread...

Tamara,
I started to reply in the other thread then saw this started :)

Anyway, your explanation is one of the best I have seen or heard.

I thank God for the wisdom He has given you and pray that others will see it also.

[Tamara224]

All of the events I referred to are recorded in Acts. You should be familiar with them. If you are not, refresh your memory by reading the entire book.

In other words, you can't show where these things are found or what they have to do with evangelism.

No. No "other words" are necessary. I wrote what I meant and meant what I wrote. You'll have to refer to the entire book of Acts to find the references I previously made.


They have to do with evangelism because the Apostles were evangelizing.

Actually, they weren't. In two of the examples you gave, Paul was travelling, not evangelizing.

So, you do know what Scripture verses I'm referring to, then? Obviously, there's no need for me to post them, is there.

Paul was travelling because he was evangelizing. The purpose of his travels was to go spread the Gospel. He evangelized on the way and once he got there too.

Your arguments are beginning to strain credulity.

I don't believe the verses you cited are wrong.

OK. So then why do you insist that signs and wonders are a part of evangelism, even though that is not the model shown in these verses?

Don't twist my words. I didn't say I agreed with your eisegesis of the texts you cited. I said the verses themselves are not wrong. You, my friend, are wrong in your application of those proof-texts to the subject matter we are discussing.

I believe you are narrowly cherry-picking verses and interpreting them wrongly

Really? Could you please pick a verse or two and explain how I've interpreted it wrongly, particularly since I never offered any interpretation to those verses?

You've attempted to apply those verses to mean that signs and wonders is not a part of evangelism.

They don't mean that, they don't say that and you're ignoring other Scripture (mostly the Gospels and Acts) in the process.


[quote=Tamara224]I believe these are the verses you are referring to? I'm not going to take each one at a time... that would be a waste of time.

In other words, you can't refute them.

I make no attempt to refute the verses themselves. That would be silly. I can and have provided a rebuttal to your arguments surrounding the verses, however.


They just don't really prove the point you seem to be trying to make.

And yet, in spite of having been asked several times, you still can't explain how I've gotten them wrong or why they don't say what I said they do.

I did explain. You just don't like the explanation. The verses do NOT state that signs and wonders do not follow preaching of the word or are not hand in hand (accompanying) evangelism.

None of the verses you cited say that signs and wonders will not be a part of evangelism.

They give a model for us to follow and don't say that we're to perform signs and wonders.

The model we are given to follow is found in the Gospels and Acts. What you cited isn't a model - it is exposition, teaching, from one person to a group of people. It explains about the power of the Gospel. They are good explanations. But they are not "models" for us to copy ourselves after. That, we find in the Gospels and Acts - the narratives.
Neither the preaching nor the miracles saved anyone, btw.

Oh, so then you believe the Bible is wrong about that, too?

The Bible doesn't say anything differently.

Signs and wonders follow the preaching of the word (evangelism = preaching the word, the Good News) to confirm that it's not just talk, there's real power behind it.

Right. In that day. There is no longer such a need of confirmation because we now have God's word to confirm preaching.

Nonsense. Did you read the OP? The village to whom these teenage evangelists went is much closer in culture to that of Ancient Greece than it is to our culture. The people there believed in the word of God because they saw the power of God.

It may be less effective, and therefore seen less, for miracles signs and wonders to follow the preaching of the word in our own churches - but that's because everyone there already believes in God and His power. We don't need a sign. Other people do.

That is why signs and wonders and the preaching of the word (aka the Gospel) go hand in hand.

Then why did the verses I cite not say this?

Because they were talking about something else. They don't apply to the subject we're talking about the way you think they do.

[quote=Tamara224]Signs and wonders and evangelism are the tools God has chosen to use to spread the Word.

Verses, please.

There are plenty of verses in the Bible that confirm what I'm saying. Most of them have already been provided several times by others. The one about signs and wonders following is the best example of what I'm talking about. Furthermore, look at the models we have: Jesus and the Apostles. Look what they did, what they preached and what happened wherever they went to preach.

IMHO, you are doing way too much proof-texting. Look at the narratives, see how the Apostles did things and that's where you'll find the truth that signs and wonders follow the preaching of the Gospel.

[merryheart]

Actually, you've gone back and forth a couple of times. One time you'll say that you believe that signs and wonders are a part of evangelism and the next time you'll say that you don't. So I just respond to which ever one you said you believe in the most recent post.

I have consistently stated that Evangelism is the preaching of the Gospel, and that signs follow the preaching. (because they are signs, you see ^_^)

[NewSong]

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[NorrinRadd]

Continuing the topic from another thread.

Are signs and wonders valid tools for evangelism? Please present scriptures to support your stance.

Yes, they absolutely are.

1) In Luke 4, we see that Jesus went about in the "power of the Spirit." He preached and taught, at one point citing a passage saying that "the Spirit of the Lord is upon <Him>." We know from other accounts, and from the mocking of his hearers there in Nazareth, that signs and wonders accompanied His ministry. At the end of that same book, and at the beginning of the second volume (Acts), Jesus uses similar wording to tell His disciples that their preaching and testifying would involve "power" and the Spirit "upon" them. That suggests (and the record of Acts supports) the idea that preaching is to be linked with the signs-and-wonders power of the Spirit.

2) Whether or not it is "original," I take the "long ending" of Mark to be canonical. It explicitly lists "signs" that will follow "those who believe," and links them both implicitly and explicitly with the preaching of the Gospel.

3) This is completely in keeping with the other occasions on which Jesus commissioned his followers to preach -- the Twelve (Luke 9) and the Seventy (Luke 10).

4) In John 14, Jesus links His "words" with his mighty "works," seems to actually give priority to the "works," and promises / prophesies that those who believe in Him will collectively equal or even surpass His works (presumably doing them in conjunction with preaching His word).




Responding to some objections stated elsewhere:

1 Cor.

According to 1 Cor 1:17, did God call him to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 1:18, is it the preaching of the cross that is the power of God or is it signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 1:21, is it signs and wonders that saves them that believe or is it the preaching of the Gospel?

According to 1 Cor 15:11, did they believe as a result of the preaching of the Gospel? Or did they believe as a result of seeing signs and wonders?

In 1 Cor 2:4, is God's power demonstrated through the preaching of the Gospel or through signs and wonders?


Your own reference (2:4) defeats your point. Here is how it reads:

"My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power."

Paul considered that words alone were not enough.



Acts

According to Acts 16:10, did God call them to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to Acts 16:18, did Paul merely preach the Gospel, or did he perform a sign and wonder?


When the Ethiopian eunuch found Phillip, was he saved as a result of the preaching of the Gospel or by signs and wonders?

One of the few such accounts in Acts or the Gospels -- and even then, it ends with a miraculous transportation.



Romans

According to Romans 10:8-9, is it preaching or signs and wonders?

According to Romans 15:19, the Gospel is "fully preached" when done in the "power" of "signs and wonders."



Galatians

In Galatians 1:16, why did Paul say that God revealed the Son in him? To preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

In Galatians 3:5, "miracles" are associated with "believing what <they> heard."

[Jimbeaux]

Sure, I believe God confirms His Word with signs following but we cannot work miracles at will. I still think miracles remain in God’s prerogative. So, I do not think we can make “Power Evangelism” our only method of evangelism. When a sign or wonder is necessary, God will know it and knows how to bring it to pass and we just get the privilege of seeing it happen. Until the miracle happens, maybe we should content ourselves with “Preaching the Gospel” and sharing the Good News.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[JimfromOhio]

The way I see it is that Let the Holy Spirit do what He will through you and see what He does with you. 1 Corinthians 14:12 "So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church." The idea of the spiritual gifts is simply that the Lord uses that gift in a unity, in a unifying way. God will use our spiritual gifts by His Spirit as He wills. God blesses us with LOVE and the blessings of love flows through us to others. I believe God will use whatever sources He will use around the world because He is simply God. What I am trying to say, its all come down to common sense when we are ministering others and there are gifts God will provide for us to use at HIS discrection, not ours. Hebrews 2:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=2&verse=4&version=31&context=verse) God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will. The BEST Evangelist is the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ and as we minister, the Holy Spirit will work in a person's heart to be convicted. 1 Thessalonians 1:5 "because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake."

When such "Signs, Wonders" happens it is because God did them, NOT us. We have to be careful how we see "revivals" out there. I reject many of them.

1 Corinthians 12:29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=12&verse=29&version=31&context=verse)
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

Galatians 3:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=3&verse=5&version=31&context=verse)
Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

2 Thessalonians 2:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=60&chapter=2&verse=9&version=31&context=verse)
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.

[Andry]

:D

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