A VERY POOR man made healthy and wealthy after he repented....

[Balance]

..........................................................................

The verses from Job never mentioned in threads about Job.

Job 42:6 Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”
7 And so it was, after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. 8 Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the LORD commanded them; for the LORD had accepted Job. 10 And the LORD restored Job’s losses when he prayed for his friends. Indeed the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. 11 Then all his brothers, all his sisters, and all those who had been his acquaintances before, came to him and ate food with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversity that the LORD had brought upon him. Each one gave him a piece of silver and each a ring of gold.

12 Now the LORD blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yoke of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 And he called the name of the first Jemimah, the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-Happuch. 15 In all the land were found no women so beautiful as the daughters of Job; and their father gave them an inheritance among their brothers.
16 After this Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations . 17 So Job died, old and full of days.

Thousands of reference by the sickness and poverty mentality folks but they never mention these verses - why?

Will I get a reply to the verses - or just a deflection of the subject?

[JimfromOhio]

How I learned about Job are as follows:

1. Job's example of Faith
God made a point to the devil and to the whole world of people who have ever read that account. And the point is this, that true saving faith is not dependent on positive circumstances. God is making a point with Satan and to make the point He uses Job and the point is to show the strength and the continuity and the unwavering character of true saving faith, true love for God. The person who really loves God is not the person who loves God because of what he gets, but the person who loves God because of who he is.

2. Job versus Elphazs, Bildads, and Zophars
In the beginning of the Book of Job, Job's innocence is established so that people won't interpret Job's friends opinions as judgemental. The very first verse explains that Job was blameless and a man of complete integrity. Job's faith was very strong and feared (loved) God. Job's friends (Eliphaz, Bildad, & Zophar) reminds me of some movements who believes that when Christians get sick, they blame on a Christian who have committed sin. There are many of those who believes such doctrines. There are so many Elphazs, Bildads, and Zophars. God allowed Satan to inflict Job (i.e. boil which is a skin disease). The fact of Job's story is that there are no answers when disaster strikes. We can't explain everything. Faith is to keep trusting God no matter what happens. Job had the strength, the continuity and the unwavering character of true saving faith, true love for God regardless what happened to him. Many of us have identified with him. Many of us also have identified some of our fellow Christians as Elphazs, Bildads, and Zophars. When when Christians face tribulations as Job did, what would their friends do?

3. Details of Job's friends treating Job during his trials
Some have the attitude, "I have the knowledge and how God have blessed me with that knowledge. One of these days you will also come to know and have the same knowledge and that is when you will know the TRUTH." Job's friends were obstacles to his relationship with God when they don't really know why things are happening to Job. Self-righteousness is terrible among Christian community because it is very naturally that we judge everyone by what/who we are because it is usually smug satisfaction with self. Self-righteousness also leads to self-satisfaction accompanied by unawareness of what is going on.

4. Job's friends persecuting Job.....
Job knew in his own heart that his friends were wrong. Finally, after listening to his friends for so long (20 plus chapters), in Job 21:27, Job said, "Behold, I know your thoughts, and the devices which ye wrongfully imagine against me." In other words, "You know, I've had it with you guys. All you do is think what I lacked against God." And that their comments just proved that they didn't love him. “Oh, Job. You’ve got a lot of sin in your life. We know, we’ve got a good theology. Our theology is that if you’ve got problems, you’ve got sin.” Job's friends ran through weeks of his personal inventory and they came up with nothing. Job 32:2 But Elihu son of Barakel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, became very angry with Job for justifying himself rather than God. Job 37:14 "Listen to this, Job; stop and consider God's wonders.

Job made a mistake of listening to his friends and God reminded Job of His Character in Job Chapters 40 and 41. In Job 42. "And Job answered the Lord and said, O, I see, I get it, You can do everything and no thought can be withheld from You and who's ever going to hide counsel without knowledge, therefore have I uttered that which I understood not, things too wonderful for me which I knew not."

Job was saying in today's language: "God, I understand, You're God, You're sovereign, You can do anything. You know everything. You have all the privileges. I'm a fool for even opening my mouth, I apologize. I've been talking about things far beyond my understanding which I knew not."

Read Job 42:7-9 regarding God's rebuke to Eliphaz and his friends for judging Job wrongly

[Balance]

And yet, you did not address the verses at all.

[victoryword]

Will I get a reply to the verses - or just a deflection of the subject?


Based on the history of these discussions, it would appear that deflection might be the typical response. ;)

[JimfromOhio]

And yet, you did not address the verses at all.

Yes I did, Job repented for listening to his friends. Job's innocence is established so that people like (WOF) won't interpret Job's friends opinions as judgemental. The very first verse explains that Job was blameless and a man of complete integrity. Guess who said that? GOD

What's interesting is that other biblical writers refer to Job as a real person. Ezekiel refers to Job along with Noah and Daniel (Ezekiel 14:14,20). And James draws upon the example of Job to comfort the suffering, proving the point that God is merciful. He commends the endurance of Job (Jas. 5:11). From the Book of Job, we see that God is in complete control.

"If there were no God, there would be no atheists." - Where All Roads Lead, 1922 The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man." - Introduction to the Book of Job, 1907

[JimfromOhio]

Based on the history of these discussions, it would appear that deflection might be the typical response. ;)
There are many bad theologies came from Job friends' mouths that I would encourage you and everyone to REALLY study the book of Job without being BIAS. There are several reason the Book of Job was placed in the Bible along with other books. I truly believe that God put Job in the Bible is because He wanted us to avoid bad theology regarding His Sovereign.
;)

[Faithful Love]

I would encourage you and everyone to REALLY study the book of Job without being BIAS.


Right back at ya!:D When have you read it without your anti-temporal blessings bias???

[Andry]

Good luck living to 140. :P

[JimfromOhio]

Right back at ya!:D When have you read it without your anti-temporal blessings bias???
Eternal blessings are much better than temporal blessings. Just think of Job in heaven, up there, he has MORE than he ever had on earth. :thumbsup:

[JimfromOhio]

Good luck living to 140. :P

Good point. :P:thumbsup:

[Balance]

Good luck living to 140. :P

Why? If it was part of God's restoration to me for repenting - could it not happen? Oh, and it was 140 more years, past Job's trails.

[Andry]

Why? If it was part of God's restoration to me for repenting - could it not happen? Oh, and it was 140 more years, past Job's trails.
Sure. Find me one believer, give or take a decade. Otherwise it's academic.

[JimfromOhio]

Yes after he suffered according to God's will :)

[victoryword]

Good luck living to 140. :P

I wonder why this retort never comes up when Job is being used as a manual for the stringent sovereignty doctrine in which God inflicts (or ordains) an individual's suffering? Why is this little point brought up only when someone actually points out that God delievered Job from the trials and blessed him materially?

Seems like too many have a double standard when it comes to Job.

[victoryword]

Yes after he suffered according to God's will :)

Yep, good ol' Yahweh. Always siccing the devil on His own servants.

I hope no one turns me into the authorities for siccing my pit bull on my son. After all, I am just trying to act like God, right? ;)

[victoryword]

Sure. Find me one believer, give or take a decade. Otherwise it's academic.

Then do we discard any lessons we can gain from the historical account of Job or is it just a book of suffering only while we ignore the blessings that came at the end?

[Andry]

I wonder why this retort never comes up when Job is being used as a manual for the stringent sovereignty doctrine in which God inflicts (or ordains) an individual's suffering? Why is this little point brought up only when someone actually points out that God delievered Job from the trials and blessed him materially?

Seems like too many have a double standard when it comes to Job.
You've never heard a double-standard from me, as I rarely join these types of discussions. The 140 was referenced in the OP, so "little" as it may be, was not brought up by me.

[Andry]

Then do we discard any lessons we can gain from the historical account of Job or is it just a book of suffering only while we ignore the blessings that came at the end?
Nope, there was no inference to do that.

If we are living dirt poor or even simply paycheque to paycheque, then irrespective of our doctrinal beliefs - WOF or non-WOF - the referenced verses on Job's restoration are academic. How we choose to filter those Scriptures are only then affected by our belief systems.

[victoryword]

Nope, there was no inference to do that.

If we are living dirt poor or even simply paycheque to paycheque, then irrespective of our doctrinal beliefs - WOF or non-WOF - the referenced verses on Job's restoration are academic. How we choose to filter those Scriptures are only then affected by our belief systems.

I agree with you to a certain extent.

[Balance]

and yet we are still ignoring the fact that AFTER Job repented, he experienced physical healing and financial gain.

If you're supporting the suffering he went through - then how can you not support God's blessings after repentance?

[Balance]

Yes after he suffered according to God's will :)


And after Job repented he was physically healed and financially blessed according to God's will.

[Andry]

and yet we are still ignoring the fact that AFTER Job repented, he experienced physical healing and financial gain.

If you're supporting the suffering he went through - then how can you not support God's blessings after repentance?





Nope, I'm certainly not ignoring it - that's what Job experienced in his restoration. To me it simply begs the question: if we repented but do not or have not experienced physical healing and financial gain, what happened?

And the "answers" to that will depend on our belief system.

[Balance]

Nope, I'm certainly not ignoring it - that's what Job experienced in his restoration. To me it simply begs the question: if we repented but do not or have not experienced physical healing and financial gain, what happened?

And the "answers" to that will depend on our belief system.

Well said :thumbsup:

[Jimbeaux]

Here’s one rich man who was damned because he failed to repent of his wealth:
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19)
For some known reason, he is never mentioned by those who think material wealth is always a blessing.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[Balance]

Focus Jim - focus -

[Jimbeaux]

Focus Jim - focus -

^_^ Okay. Sorry, B.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[he4rty]

Not going to deny Job was blessed in the end, but

Job's First Test

6 One day the angels [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=1&version=31#fen-NIV-12876a)] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=1&version=31#fen-NIV-12876b)] also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
13 One day when Job's sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15 and the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
16 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The fire of God fell from the sky and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
17 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
18 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, "Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:
"Naked I came from my mother's womb,
and naked I will depart. [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=1&version=31#fen-NIV-12891c)]
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
may the name of the LORD be praised."
22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.


His initial family was killed off and he originally had servants so I wouldn't have said he was poor.

[Jimbeaux]

No doubt, Job was wealthy. The bible says so, His possessions were seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, five hundred female donkeys, and a very large household, so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the East. Job 1.3

But what does that prove? There are wealthy Christians and Christians in poverty. Remember this story about rich people and poor people? It’s not always the rich one who is blessed.:
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’” (Luke 16)
Oops, I think I am only supposed to be focusing on wealth.


~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.


~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

[map4]

So, I want to see if I have this correct....

The fact that Job was rich (before and after) proves nothing.

But, then, you say the fact that he suffered does prove something?

His being rich is not to be used to justify or prove anything, but his suffering should? :confused:


So, WoF says that just because Job suffered doesn't mean that everyone will.
Anti-WoF says, no, it proves God does want us to suffer. If it's good enough for Job, it's good enough for us.

WoF says, Job was rich before and after he suffered, after he repented he was blessed with more. So, if it's good enough for Job, it's good enough for us.
Anti-WoF says, no, just because Job was rich doesn't mean God wants us all to prosper.

Does anyone else see the irony in this?
I bet Job is tired of getting pulled both ways :D

[he4rty]

So, I want to see if I have this correct....

The fact that Job was rich (before and after) proves nothing.

But, then, you say the fact that he suffered does prove something?

His being rich is not to be used to justify or prove anything, but his suffering should? :confused:


So, WoF says that just because Job suffered doesn't mean that everyone will.
Anti-WoF says, no, it proves God does want us to suffer. If it's good enough for Job, it's good enough for us.

WoF says, Job was rich before and after he suffered, after he repented he was blessed with more. So, if it's good enough for Job, it's good enough for us.
Anti-WoF says, no, just because Job was rich doesn't mean God wants us all to prosper.

Does anyone else see the irony in this?
I bet Job is tired of getting pulled both ways :D

The only reason I pointed this out was the title of the OP is a Very Poor........ which obviously he wasn't

[map4]

The only reason I pointed this out was the title of the OP is a Very Poor........ which obviously he wasn't


I know...I guess I was being sarcastic when I wrote that. :blush:

I wasn't directing it at you but at something else I read and the way we all look at Job differently sometimes. :)

[Balance]

Oops, I think I am only supposed to be focusing on wealth.



Nope - though I think form your numerous threads it seems you might have an obsession with wealth and the horribleness of having it -

The question the OP is asking is:

..........................................................................

The verses from Job never mentioned in threads about Job.

Job 42:6 Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”
7 And so it was, after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. 8 Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the LORD commanded them; for the LORD had accepted Job. 10 And the LORD restored Job’s losses when he prayed for his friends. Indeed the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. 11 Then all his brothers, all his sisters, and all those who had been his acquaintances before, came to him and ate food with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversity that the LORD had brought upon him. Each one gave him a piece of silver and each a ring of gold.

12 Now the LORD blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yoke of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 And he called the name of the first Jemimah, the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-Happuch. 15 In all the land were found no women so beautiful as the daughters of Job; and their father gave them an inheritance among their brothers.
16 After this Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations . 17 So Job died, old and full of days.

Thousands of reference by the sickness and poverty mentality folks but they never mention these verses - why?

Will I get a reply to the verses - or just a deflection of the subject?




But thanks for proving my point here by attempting to deflect the subject.

Care to answer the underlined question?

[JimfromOhio]

My question is this: Did Job requested or demanded that he be rewarded for his sufferings?

[Simon_Templar]

what did Job repent of?

[JimfromOhio]

what did Job repent of?
Good question.

[Tamara224]

what did Job repent of?

You stole the words right outa my mouth.

[Balance]

what did Job repent of?

Good question.


WOW - you really don't read the OP - do you?

Job 42:6 Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”

There's the reference - here is a hint - read the verses before it and after it and the Scripture itself will tell you what Job repented of -

Since it was Job himself that spoke the words - then he can explain why also.

[Tamara224]

WOW - you really don't read the OP - do you?

Job 42:6 Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”

There's the reference - here is a hint - read the verses before it and after it and the Scripture itself will tell you what Job repented of -

Since it was Job himself that spoke the words - then he can explain why also.




rhetorical question
–noun a question asked solely to produce an effect or to make an assertion and not to elicit a reply, as “What is so rare as a day in June?”