Kol Ishah

[ChavaK]

For the men here- what do you think about kol ishah?
Do you follow it?


Do you feel it is insulting, like you have no control over yourselves?

Or do you think it is a sound practice (no pun intended) to follow?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

?What? Explain, because it does not translate: Kol Ishah :confused:

[ChavaK]

?What? Explain, because it does not translate: Kol Ishah :confused:

Kol isha is the prohibition of men listening to women sing.

Here is a basic explanation:



men are generally not allowed to hear women sing, a prohibition called kol isha (Babylonian Talmud Tractate Berachot 24a). This is derived from Song of Solomon 2:14: "Let me hear your voice, for your voice is sweet ("arev") and your face is beautiful." The Talmud classifies this as ervah (literally "nakedness"). The majority view of later interpreters is that this prohibition applies at all times, and forbids a man who happens to be around in the presence of a woman singing to pray or study Torah, similarly to other prohibitions classified as ervah (Rosh Berachot 3:37, Shulkhan Arukh Even ha-Ezer 21:2)[4]. A minority view holds that the prohibition of praying or studying in the presence of kol isha applies only while reciting a single prayer, Shema Yisrael [5] (based on the opinion of Rav Hai Gaon, cited in Mordechai Berachot 80). There is debate between the poskim (authorities of Jewish law) whether the prohibition applies to a recorded voice, where the singer cannot be seen, where the woman is not known to the man who is listening and where he has never seen her or a picture of her. There are also opinions, following Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg, that exclude singing in mixed groups from this prohibition, such as synagogue prayer or dinner-table Zemirot (religious songs), based on the idea that the female voice is not distinctly heard as separate from the group in these cases.[6]

Conservative and Reform Judaism do not have these requirements. Conservative Judaism interprets the relevant passage of the Talmud as expressing a Rabbi's opinion rather than imposing a requirement. Reform Judaism does not regard this traditional law as applicable to modern times.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Kol isha is the prohibition of men listening to women sing.

Here is a basic explanation: Well I do know that a woman singing can attract a man to a woman, but so what. Attraction is important for men and women to form a union. Oh, and thanks for explaining.

[LittleLambofJesus]

Kol isha is the prohibition of men listening to women sing.I would hate to give up listening to Dianah Ross and the Supremes and the Marvelettes!!! If ya look closely you may even see me dancing in the background :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UkIkwy5ZM

[ChavaK]

I would hate to give up listening to Dianah Ross and the Supremes and the Marvelettes!!!
some hold it doesn't apply to recorded media, so the
Supremes and the Marvelettes are safe


If ya look closely you may even see me dancing in the background :D

Nice dance moves!!

[Nooj]

Contrary to belief, men do not jump around screaming about sex whenever a loose strand of hair escapes from the headscarf. We aren't sex-crazed, and to expect men to be like that is demeaning. Expect better of us, or at least expect better of the Orthodox community (who if anything, should be the most well-suited to resist temptation).

[Torah613]

I personally think that it is going too far.

However, I stand with the community and observe the practice. I do not observe the practice because I personally believe in it, or because I think it is needful for me, but rather to preserve the peace of the community. There may be someone, lets say, in Shul for shacharis on shabbos morning. Now lets assume this person has a hyperactive libido, and for them a woman singing is a big temptation. It is better for the everyone to observe this practice in order to allow that one person to be able to focus on davening.

Yochanan

[Torah613]

I would note however, it is a perfectly acceptable halachic option for women to pray seperately from men with women leading the services. That is, if no men are present. Thus, perhaps in a classroom at the shul.

As a further explanation of why we do these things, why we create hedges between the genders, its not just about temptation. HaShem created everything in ascending order. Women were created last, and thus are the holiest of all G-ds creation (inately at least). Thus, we men put these minhagim on ourselves for two reasons:

1. To preserve the spiritual purity of women. Women are extremely important in Jewish life. Without women, we would not have Jewish children. Our people would not keep Kosher, would not learn the peace of Shabbos. In fact, women are so important that a Jewish community is obligated to sell their Torah Scroll in order to build a mikvah (ritual bath used for women's purity issues). Orthodox men are obligated to do whatever is necessary (other than violating the commandments) to make their wives happy.

2. as an act of humility. When we have women leading the services in shul etc. we are saying "look, we are as good as the women! we don't need you G-d." Its a whole "Tower of Babel" thing.

Yochanan