Troubling Passage

[Bouke285]

I recently ordered this book called Growing in God's Grace by John Fredericksen. and came across this passage which troubled me inside.

"For many present-day Christians, much confusion exists because they incorrectly attempt to apply instructions or promises that were given exclusively to Israel under the law. Only Israel was to: Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat...or drink...but seek ye first teh kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you. (Maththew 6:25-33) Only Israel was promised: All these signs shall follow them that believe...they shall cast out devils...speak with new tongues...and they shall lay hands on the sick (Mark 16: 15-18) Only Israel was promised: If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it(John 14:13-16; 16:23). When we read the Old Testament, The Gospel, and the early chapters of Acts, we are not to claim promises or instruction intended exclusively for Israel. They were included for our learning not for claiming Israel's Promises."
Reading this made me feel uneasy like it was totally off I prayed about this and talked to some people I know believe strongly against what this guy is saying. That the promises Jesus gave to all who were listening were only for the Jews and not for us. This would be saying we are not ment to be God's wittneses, we are not able to speak in tongues, we are not able to heal in Jesus' Name. I was just wondering your views on this and if this is a controversial issue seen often?

[dkbwarrior]

I recently ordered this book called Growing in God's Grace by John Fredericksen. and came across this passage which troubled me inside.

"For many present-day Christians, much confusion exists because they incorrectly attempt to apply instructions or promises that were given exclusively to Israel under the law. Only Israel was to: Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat...or drink...but seek ye first teh kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you. (Maththew 6:25-33) Only Israel was promised: All these signs shall follow them that believe...they shall cast out devils...speak with new tongues...and they shall lay hands on the sick (Mark 16: 15-18) Only Israel was promised: If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it(John 14:13-16; 16:23). When we read the Old Testament, The Gospel, and the early chapters of Acts, we are not to claim promises or instruction intended exclusively for Israel. They were included for our learning not for claiming Israel's Promises."
Reading this made me feel uneasy like it was totally off I prayed about this and talked to some people I know believe strongly against what this guy is saying. That the promises Jesus gave to all who were listening were only for the Jews and not for us. This would be saying we are not ment to be God's wittneses, we are not able to speak in tongues, we are not able to heal in Jesus' Name. I was just wondering your views on this and if this is a controversial issue seen often?

This is well that it troubles you. It is the Holy Spirit within you leading into all truth, and away from this type of error.

The theological mind set that you describe has only a surface knowledge of covenant, with no real revelation. It has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof.

God made a covenant with Abraham that was to be inherited by Abrahams seed. (That seed of course is Jesus.)

That covenant would include every jot and every tittle of every Word Spoken by God to the physical descendents of Abraham, (the nation of Israel) from Moses through Jesus. It also would include every jot and every tittle of every Word Spoken by God to the spiritual descendants of Abraham, (the church), through the apostles.

This covenant was preserved and canonized into what we call the Holy Bible. The Testaments, Old and New.

Of course, a Testament is only in force after the death of the testator, thus God was manifest in flesh, and confirmed His own Covenant with Himself in His own blood on the cross at Calvary.

This covenant cannot be broken, because it is between God the Father, and God the Son, sealed by God the Holy Spirit, and confirmed in the blood of the lamb.

When we are born again, we are baptized into the Body of Chirst, we In Him, and Him in us.

Because we are In Him, we become joint heirs with Him of all the exceeding great and precious promises, All Of Them...

This is called the Blessing of Abraham.

That is why the writer of the epistle says this:

19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
-2 Corinthians 1:19-20

Keep seeking brother. You will find.

Peace...

[Bouke285]

Thanks a lot for the reply and the encouragement!!!

You don't know how uplifted I felt once I read your reply I knew right away it was the truith. I have a long way to go in learning who God is and getting close to him, but he is starting to become the most important part of my life

[Criada]

I have a long way to go in learning who God is and getting close to him, but he is starting to become the most important part of my life

That is wonderful! I can't add anything to the answer that you have received, I just wanted to say that it is lovely to see your love of God and desire for His truth.
God bless you, brother. He will honour your seeking :)
Praying for you.

[RestoreTheRiver]

I see the question is already well resolved. Just as a followup, for future questions, I suggest you look at the following:



Is this opinion supported by scripture as a whole, not by isolated "proof texts?"
Is there edvidence that this was not the way the first hearer's understood the issue? (In the case you mentioned, why would Saints Peter and Paul have ever been led by the Holy Spirit to take the gospel to the gentiles, if the speaker/writer was correct?)
How has the church as a whole understood this question? What has been believed "everywhere, always, and by all?"
What is the Holy Spirit within you saying, given the above confirmations?
I hope this is helpful for the future. God bless you for your desire to know the truth, and to walk closely with Him.

Michael

[SharonL]

dk Warrior nailed it to where there is no question remaining.

Another thing to look at - we are also Jews in God's eyes - we are grafted in, but given the same promises. You can look around you and see God's work every day, if the promises were not for us - we could in no way be a witness and carry out the anointings that God gives us. If they were not for us - we would not be given the anointings and blessings to do God's work.

You are hearing right - when you feel a stirring in your heart - that is the Holy Spirit leading you into truth.

[dead2self]

As a small addition here, the author should read the Book of Romans. Paul is very clear, all believers are grated into Israel. We ARE Israel so saying promises made to Israel do not apply to s is simply false. Also, all God's promises are yes in Christ.

[Bouke285]

One more thing to add Because My co worker who actually got me motivated to start seeking God, who is also a big believer agreed with the passage. Well sort of, his reasoning was that all of the commandments given to Moses were only for the Jews and since the period of Grace didn't start untill Jesus Was crucified the Gospel also was meant for the Jews. This is actually the first big disagreement I have had with him. I didn't say much about it I just let him say what he thought, oh and by the way he has been a christian for 30 years. How could he miss something like this?

I was just wondering, If we were alive back in the old testiment, even though there weren't so called Christians, but we still believed in God and his teachings. Physically being Gentiles would we have had to follow those laws as well?

[dead2self]

One more thing to add Because My co worker who actually got me motivated to start seeking God, who is also a big believer agreed with the passage. Well sort of, his reasoning was that all of the commandments given to Moses were only for the Jews and since the period of Grace didn't start untill Jesus Was crucified the Gospel also was meant for the Jews. This is actually the first big disagreement I have had with him. I didn't say much about it I just let him say what he thought, oh and by the way he has been a christian for 30 years. How could he miss something like this?


He is missing a very important part of the truth about being Christian - that we are in the Olive Tree that is Israel and the inheritor of all God's promises to Israel. The commandments were meant for a specific time and people namely the physical Israel (as opposed to the True spiritual Israel). Saying that the Gospel is only for Jews is madness. This man need to read Romans 11 and the meditate on the meaning of teh Great Comission.


I was just wondering, If we were alive back in the old testiment, even though there weren't so called Christians, but we still believed in God and his teachings. Physically being Gentiles would we have had to follow those laws as well?

Well, if you lived in Israel then I am failry sure you would be under the law. I cannot think offhand of the passages, but I do believe there are passages that deal with the alien living in Israel. But I think that if you lived in a gentile country it is different. The thing about many of the laws was that they were to keep Israel seperate from all other nations. Also remeber, that even before Chirst, not one man was ever saved by keeping the law. Salvation has allways only comes through faith in Christ. In OT times, they believed in the promised Messiah, today we believe in the Messiah who has come.

[Bouke285]

Sorry to keep this thread going, but I was researching Gentiles being spiritual Jews and came across this website it's pretty long and I was wondering if some of you could read through it and tell me how his reasoning is off or what you think about it. THANKS Again =D

I can't put a link in untill i have 50 posts so I will put it in my Signature Please read some of this site

[Bouke285]

I found this verse:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nore female: for ye ar all one in Christ Jesus. I now understand that the Church of today was never revealed in the old testiment that is why I was confused. I thought for a while that God thought of the actual Physical Jews as more important when in fact we were Grafted in to the branch of the Jew's promise the kingdom along with many other things by Jesus's sacrifice for us. We are all equall in Christ just like the verse says. What got me confused in the first place was the 1000 year ruling of Christ. Can you please turn me on some scripture that describes the role of the Jews and Gentiles during this time