Non-Christian Manifestations (Video)

[Amadeo65]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0ZRFPfxSs

He slew people "in the Spirit", talked about using this "power" to heal "conditions" and other problems, and, oh, there were people "Laughing in the Spirit".... All he has to do now is confess Jesus and we can call this a Revival!! Catch the Wave everybody!

[chas351]

yes i agree outwardly there are some strange things for the eyes to see.. my comment is: God looks at he heart, which i assume you would agree.
personally i don't judge Todd's appearance (as it does not appeal to me either)
my judgement is on what is preached and it lines up with Scripture
much of the teaching can only be discerned by Spiritual Eyes - you say you are born again.. i have my doubts
the kicking and masquerading?.. doesnt look good to the outward flesh –
Todd is a man and is bound to make mistakes – (if any man says he has no sin, he is a liar (not to be confused with righteousness and cleansing we already have in the Blood of Jesus) however for each public mistake there are thousands of good things which critics fail to acknowledge

Matthew 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Why would satan cast out satan
why would the devil heal the sick
why would the devil preach the Word of God - Salvation thru faith in Jesus Christ, The Blood of the Lamb
why did the people Jesus came to save crucify Him
these are end times and the world is very wicked but why would Todd preach HOLINESS
the devil teaches sex drugs and rock and roll
the media preach the above sin with boldness without shame
why does Todd preach against prostitution, drugs, and idols
why does Todd preach the most important thing in life is to spend quiet and quality time with the God of the Bible and get to know Jesus and the Holy Spirit
why would satan preach the above - the only spirit which denies that Jesus is the Christ >> THAT is the antichrist _ Todd does not preach against or deny Jesus, but upholds HIM with such fervency the World and Satan are out to kill him

Deuteronomy 29:2-4 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Exodus 7:
8And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, 9When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Show a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent. 10And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. 11Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. 12For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.


Matthew 23:13-33 -
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. F44 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise F45 and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


search for truth and that truth is NOT found in the worship or following of any man or Religion or institution – and not in works of the flesh which is idolatory. Salvation is Grace beginning to end for all eternity – lest we think God owes us something (our righteousness is as filthy rags, all have sinned and gone astray (Isaiah) – none is worthy or deserving of any praise from God. We are saved by faith in the Blood of Jesus Rev12:10.
The written Word of God is TRUE and Infallible.
I pray that the Grace of God come upon you, a Freshfire and Anointing in the Power of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[probinson]

Congratulations! You finally found the counterfit!

Good for you!

[Amadeo65]

Why would satan cast out satan
why would the devil heal the sick

Why indeed? Maybe the Devil isn't healing. Maybe there are no healings. Maybe, what we're seeing is stage magic. A hypnosis show PRETENDING to be a Revival. Just ask Darren Brown, the Hypnotist, as he converts these "Atheists":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sq-YUdq1OI

We see men like Marjoe Gortner who CONFESS to not believing what it is they are preaching and doing. We have Darren here actually causing people to FALL DOWN by mere suggestion. We have another charlatan, this time in the form of "Matrix Energetics" promising healings! Why is it that when we see this in Non-Christians we call it Satanic deception, but when we throw in the name of Jesus it becomes Revival? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't revival. Maybe, it isn't even all that Demonic either. Maybe, what we're seeing is simply sad self deception. Mass hypnosis, the power of the mind, the "latent" power of the soul?

I would like to see real proof of a healing. Real proof. And even then, I'm not so sure that would convince me. You talk alot about what Todd allegedly teaches. What does he teach? What does Patricia King teach? What does Benny Hinn teach? What does Joyner teach? What does Creflo Dollar teach? (Hahaha, an evangelist named Dollar! Funny!) What do any of these people teach? Sure, they use the name of Jesus. Sure, they talk about God and about all sorts of nice things. But that's just about it. I mean, to any thinking individual, all this talk about "Portals" and Extreme Prophetic, and Gold teeth, and "money money money!" being released, it's all just nonsense. It isn't biblical, mind you, it isn't biblical at all. It's just nonsense. It's just a gimmick. Yea, believe in me and you'll get rich! Believe in me, give me your money, and God will definitely bless you wit ha peace you have never known! It's just a scam. It's just a scam for money, for power, for influence, just a horrible and depressing scam.

Todd against prostitution? I think alot of what you write is just putting words into his mouth. But let's talk about prostitution. His "mentor", Bob Jones, had women stripping NAKED for him in his private office. As for Drugs and other such things... Well, I think he has alot of people "drugged" on this alleged "Holy Spirit". In the words of Marjoe, Can God deliver a Religion addict? He has them drugged up with hyper emotionalism. So drugged up they're willing to believe in anything, even his shallow and empty visions. Ha! Climbing up ladders! Conversing with a short and fat Apostle Paul! Having your guts ripped out and replaced with white boxes... Stupidity, stupidity to any other man, but religious evidence to those far too easily converted. In the end, this revival will only fool people into false conversions. It will get people waiting and hoping on false miracles that will never happen. On false visions and promises that simply will never come to pass. In the end, it'll leave people ruined and full of despair. True conversion isn't hypnotism. True conversion is an act of accepting TRUTH on a high level. A levin that includes REASON and spiritual things that we simply do not understand.

[probinson]

His "mentor", Bob Jones, had women stripping NAKED for him in his private office.
You think that's bad, there was this guy named David that had a man KILLED because of his lust for some chick.

And God called that guy, "A man after His own heart".

[Amadeo65]

You think that's bad, there was this guy named David that had a man KILLED because of his lust for some chick.

And God called that guy, "A man after His own heart".

Ah, but if you listened to Bob he is a greater man than King David. After all, this guy converses with God EVERYDAY. In fact, he told those young women to be "naked before the Lord" so he could PROPHECY to them. On the other hand, David fell over in repentance at the voice of the Prophet. AND he was punished for his crime. I wonder how God punished Bob Jones for speaking God's word falesly to those young women?

But believe me, though you wouldn't ever dare acknowledge it, the horrors of these people go on and on. This is only one little thing in a long line of lurking terrors that exist and are committed by these Religious Dope dealers, these professional Hypnotists and stage showmen!

[probinson]

Ah, but if you listened to Bob he is a greater man than King David. After all, this guy converses with God EVERYDAY. In fact, he told those young women to be "naked before the Lord" so he could PROPHECY to them. On the other hand, David fell over in repentance at the voice of the Prophet. AND he was punished for his crime. I wonder how God punished Bob Jones for speaking God's word falesly to those young women?
I dunno. I'm not Bob Jones.

Point is though, what would you have said about David? I mean, if you're really being honest with yourself, and you picked up the paper today and read, "Minister has man killed so that he could take his wife", what would you think? Would you even give the guy a chance to repent? And how long would you give him? A week? A month? A year? How long do you think God gives people to repent?

But believe me, though you wouldn't ever dare acknowledge it, the horrors of these people go on and on.
I'm sure there are very real stories of damage from very real people, and I don't discount their experiences, though I sincerely doubt that you know of any firsthand. You're likely just parroting what you read somewhere, on some website, by some guy, which is ironically what you've accused the "sheeple" of all day long, and that's why I don't take your comments of "horrors" and "terrors" all that sincerely.

Unless I'm incorrect, and you have indeed been affected by this firsthand, in which case I will gladly apologize for drawing the wrong conclusion.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

You think that's bad, there was this guy named David that had a man KILLED because of his lust for some chick.

And God called that guy, "A man after His own heart".

So maybe God having a daimonizomai what belongs to Him bes NOT so farfetched after all, eh?

[Amadeo65]

I'm sure there are very real stories of damage from very real people, and I don't discount their experiences, though I sincerely doubt that you know of any firsthand. You're likely just parroting what you read somewhere, on some website, by some guy, which is ironically what you've accused the "sheeple" of all day long, and that's why I don't take your comments of "horrors" and "terrors" all that sincerely.

Unless I'm incorrect, and you have indeed been affected by this firsthand, in which case I will gladly apologize for drawing the wrong conclusion.

Well no, I didn't witness it first hand. I just watched the videos of people falling, flopping around on the floor. I've read the teachings of these weirdos, their strange and bizarre visions and behaviors. I've read testimonies of the people who have been there, and who have condemned it. And I've even read the sad testimonies of the people who believe it. Oh, AND I've been a victim of False Prophets accusing me of being an adulterer and other such nonsense. So yeah, I don't know too much about delusion or false prophecy, not much at all! Except, ofcourse, my own first hand experience with false prophets, videos I've posted here and other places, my studies on hypnosis, the proof I've been posting, and so on and so forth. Pay attention and you'll slowly begin to see, or maybe not? The only person you HAVE condemnd is Marjoe Gortner, and ONLY because he came right out and said "I AM NOT REAL!" Me thinks it would take something similar in Bentley to get you to see it, and even then you'd probably still try to have it both ways. 'Well, errr, God uses sinners all the time!" HAHAHAHAHA!!

[probinson]

Well no, I didn't witness it first hand. I just watched the videos of people falling, flopping around on the floor. I've read the teachings of these weirdos, their strange and bizarre visions and behaviors. I've read testimonies of the people who have been there, and who have condemned it. And I've even read the sad testimonies of the people who believe it. Oh, AND I've been a victim of False Prophets accusing me of being an adulterer and other such nonsense. So yeah, I don't know too much about delusion or false prophecy, not much at all! Except, ofcourse, my own first hand experience with false prophets, videos I've posted here and other places, my studies on hypnosis, the proof I've been posting, and so on and so forth. Pay attention and you'll slowly begin to see, or maybe not? The only person you HAVE condemnd is Marjoe Gortner, and ONLY because he came right out and said "I AM NOT REAL!" Me thinks it would take something similar in Bentley to get you to see it, and even then you'd probably still try to have it both ways. 'Well, errr, God uses sinners all the time!" HAHAHAHAHA!!
I haven't condemned Marjoe Gortner. I've only repeated what he said himself. That's not condemnation.

Further, if Marjoe repents, he can be saved. It's entirely up to him though.

In any event, your video here shows just what we've been trying to tell you all along. If there is a counterfeit, there must also be the real thing. What you have posted here is the counterfeit. It looks just enough like the real thing to fool people into thinking they don't need Jesus. THAT is dangerous stuff.

OTOH, if you'll spend just a few minutes of your research time to watch the revival with Todd Bentley, you'll hear him repeatedly point people to Jesus, and not to their own power.

THAT is the distinction that you don't seem to be able to make.

You've placed yourself in a place where you almost desire the reports of the healings and deliverances of people to be fake, because it will help you to prove your point. But that's a dangerous place to be in, because you're almost hoping that people AREN'T set free, because if they were, it might lend credence to Todd Bentley or the revival.

That's a dangerous, cynical place to be, IMO.

[FaultySurplus]

Don't waste your time Amadeo. They don't listen to a word of it anyway.

[probinson]

Don't waste your time Amadeo. They don't listen to a word of it anyway.
Well then, we have something in common!

:cool:

[Amadeo65]

I haven't condemned Marjoe Gortner. I've only repeated what he said himself. That's not condemnation.
No, but you took the time to talk about Marjoe having to stand before God and so forth. And you took the time to sit there reminding all of us how he's a sinner and yada yada yada blah blah blah. Alot of energy on something totally irrelevant, just another excuse for you to miss the point me thinks. Nevermind the active Marjoe Gortners who prance around saying "Innn the name of Jesus!" as they knock people to the floor. Except these Gortners don't have the heart to ever confess what they've done.

In any event, your video here shows just what we've been trying to tell you all along. If there is a counterfeit, there must also be the real thing. What you have posted here is the counterfeit. It looks just enough like the real thing to fool people into thinking they don't need Jesus. THAT is dangerous stuff.

Counterfeit, as in, exactly the same Phenomena in both instances. Ofcourse, since Todd uses the name of JESUS it must be real, right? You know, if Marjoe had never kicked "the habit" and left the revival stage, you'd probably be here defending Him too... Oh no wait, I bet your discernment is better than all those other Christians who fell before him!
OTOH, if you'll spend just a few minutes of your research time to watch the revival with Todd Bentley, you'll hear him repeatedly point people to Jesus, and not to their own power.

Are you kidding me? Because of that fool Bentley I now get spam messages from GodTV! I subscribed to them just so I can watch one of the live feeds! You keep trying to say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Problem is you don't actually talk to me about anything important. You don't show me anything interesting that Todd says. Nothing at all. And when WE talk about things regarding Todd has said, you just go "big whoop" and fall back to tedious and empty arguments.
THAT is the distinction that you don't seem to be able to make.
Well ofcourse, why WOULD I make that distinction? Your distinction is wrong. Marjoe confessed Christ too, he still wasn't an Apostle! It's irrelevant.
You've placed yourself in a place where you almost desire the reports of the healings and deliverances of people to be fake, because it will help you to prove your point. But that's a dangerous place to be in, because you're almost hoping that people AREN'T set free, because if they were, it might lend credence to Todd Bentley or the revival.

That's a dangerous, cynical place to be, IMO.

Oh really? Is that how I am? If only you knew the truth about what it is I do or do not want to see.

[charityagape]

No, but you took the time to talk about Marjoe having to stand before God and so forth. And you took the time to sit there reminding all of us how he's a sinner and yada yada yada blah blah blah. Alot of energy on something totally irrelevant, just another excuse for you to miss the point me thinks. Nevermind the active Marjoe Gortners who prance around saying "Innn the name of Jesus!" as they knock people to the floor. Except these Gortners don't have the heart to ever confess what they've done.



Counterfeit, as in, exactly the same Phenomena in both instances. Of course, since Todd uses the name of JESUS it must be real, right? You know, if Marjoe had never kicked "the habit" and left the revival stage, you'd probably be here defending Him too... Oh no wait, I bet your discernment is better than all those other Christians who fell before him!


Are you kidding me? Because of that fool Bentley I now get spam messages from GodTV! I subscribed to them just so I can watch one of the live feeds! You keep trying to say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Problem is you don't actually talk to me about anything important. You don't show me anything interesting that Todd says. Nothing at all. And when WE talk about things regarding Todd has said, you just go "big whoop" and fall back to tedious and empty arguments.

Well ofcourse, why WOULD I make that distinction? Your distinction is wrong. Marjoe confessed Christ too, he still wasn't an Apostle! It's irrelevant.


Oh really? Is that how I am? If only you knew the truth about what it is I do or do not want to see.

:clap: Very vitriolic.

[millerrod]

Brother Amadeo65 Remember what God gave me to share with you ?? Those who are choosing to support and follow fase doctrines and false ministrys their fate will be as the plants only Christ will be the one sitting on the short stool and his hands will be upon them doing what was shown. I think you will understand what i am speaking of. Some whos doctrine has been shown with scripture as in error are unable to see due to pride and vanity and anger. You will reconize them in their words. Just go examine the thread where a brother is leaving and you will reconize them by their words just stay clear of them and let God handle it. A good wise friend told me once the error has been shown with scripture just dust your feet if they wont listen.

[msbojingles]

:clap: Very vitriolic.^_^

vit·ri·ol·ic http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png /ˌvɪhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngtriˈɒlhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngɪk/ [vi-tree-ol-ik] –adjective 1.of, pertaining to, or resembling vitriol. 2.obtained from vitriol. 3.very caustic; scathing: vitriolic criticism.
[Origin: 1660–70; vitriol (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vitriol) + -ic (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=-ic)http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Synonyms 3. acid, bitter.
—Antonyms 3. bland, mild.


vit·ri·ol http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png /ˈvɪhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngtrihttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəl/ [vi-tree-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngl] noun, verb, -oled, -ol·ing or (especially Britishhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) -olled, -ol·ling. –noun 1.Chemistry. any of certain metallic sulfates of glassy appearance, as copper sulfate or blue vitriol, iron sulfate or green vitriol, zinc sulfate or white vitriol, etc. 2.oil of vitriol; sulfuric acid. 3.something highly caustic or severe in effect, as criticism. –verb (used with object) 4.to treat with or as with vitriol, esp. sulfuric acid.

[Alpine]

:clap: Very vitriolic.



:D:D:D:D:D:D

[charityagape]

Brother Amadeo65 Remember what God gave me to share with you ?? Those who are choosing to support and follow false doctrines and false ministry's their fate will be as the plants only Christ will be the one sitting on the short stool and his hands will be upon them doing what was shown. I think you will understand what i am speaking of. Some who's doctrine has been shown with scripture as in error are unable to see due to pride and vanity and anger. You will recognize them in their words. Just go examine the thread where a brother is leaving and you will recognize them by their words just stay clear of them and let God handle it. A good wise friend told me once the error has been shown with scripture just dust your feet if they wont listen.


Seriously?:doh:So would those plants happen to be wheat, tares?

[millerrod]

No it was not and frankly i was not even speaking to you i was speaking to my brother.

[~RENEE~]

Don't waste your time Amadeo. They don't listen to a word of it anyway.You're right I won't listen to this.


Maybe there are no healings. Maybe, what we're seeing is stage magic. A hypnosis show PRETENDING to be a Revival
because that would mean that God is a liar. And that is just not true. God is truth in and of itself. He IS truth He can not lie.

[charityagape]

No it was not and frankly i was not even speaking to you i was speaking to my brother.

Well if you don't want sideline comments then make statements like that via PM. Frankly that message shoulda been PM. It's obviously going to draw attention lots of attention. It's a big ol' stage whisper.

[Amadeo65]

because that would mean that God is a liar. And that is just not true. God is truth in and of itself. He IS truth He can not lie.

I meant, healings done by Bentley and Co. Those do not exist. If they did exist, God would then be a liar, considering the nature of these people.

[~RENEE~]

[/size][/font]

I meant, healings done by Bentley and Co. Those do not exist. If they did exist, God would then be a liar, considering the nature of these people. You know all this for sure?

Whyyyyyyyyy that would make you God. NOT.

[Elijah2]

Good old brain-washing.:preach:

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[Amadeo65]

You know all this for sure?
Yes
Whyyyyyyyyy that would make you God.
Whatever you say, it wouldn't be the first time I've been worshipped.

[Amadeo65]

Brother Amadeo65 Remember what God gave me to share with you ?? Those who are choosing to support and follow fase doctrines and false ministrys their fate will be as the plants only Christ will be the one sitting on the short stool and his hands will be upon them doing what was shown. I think you will understand what i am speaking of. Some whos doctrine has been shown with scripture as in error are unable to see due to pride and vanity and anger. You will reconize them in their words. Just go examine the thread where a brother is leaving and you will reconize them by their words just stay clear of them and let God handle it. A good wise friend told me once the error has been shown with scripture just dust your feet if they wont listen.

Ah, I recall the word. Thankyou Millerodd.

[ShammahBenJudah]

So...here's the curious thing. You spread before us a veritable smorgasbord of fleshly manifestations and ask us to look at them. Why not just post some porn?

Is there any real difference?

Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!

Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things.

The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.
Philippians 4:4-9

[CryoftheNation]

[/size][/font]

I meant, healings done by Bentley and Co. Those do not exist. If they did exist, God would then be a liar, considering the nature of these people.


Ok so all the PROOF that they have is fake. The doctors lie. There is no healing. Just because YOU say so? God cannot use Todd? Because You don't like him? :o :confused:

:idea: I would not be quite so quick to discount some of these things. Especially where there IS evidence of healing. TB has been collecting this evidence ever since the revival started. He has made it available to anyone who asks. Just contact his ministry team at freshfire.ca and I'm sure they'll be willing to help.

Seriously guys, your posts need to calm down a little. As was said earlier they are getting very bitter and vitriolic. You have the right to your opinion and so do we.

Before you say you can "prove it in scripture", I can also prove my side in scripture. How do we resolve that with out one of us saying the other is misreading scripture. How do we honestly know which of us is doing that? You say you are guided by the spirit, so do I!

We all believe that we are following God. However none of us can guarantee that we are 100% absolutely positively correct. To claim that we are is arrogance and stupidity all rolled into one. Debate by all means, but please lets keep it civil. Let us all allow for the fact that we may have made a mistake.

Continually harping on about false healings, no evidence etc when there is medical evidence to proove them true just makes you out to be, well, I don't know how to put it without being offensive. But it makes you look more than a little foolish. :doh:

There is a reason why some of us appear to "not listen". It is because a fair proportion of you so called "watchmen" (not aimed at anyone in particular!) have yet to watch a single TB service in its entirety rather than the odd youtube clip and reports from your favorite anti Bently sites. You would have far more credability if you were to do some open fair minded scientific study on the subject (or at least watch a couple of services). I have looked at both sides. Prayed about it and trusted God in that I believe it to be a true move of the spirit.

Now I may not agree with everything the man says but then again I wouldn't expect anyone to agree with everything I say. We are all fallable humans and to claim anything different is to set ourselves up against God. The last person to do that was lucifer! He, I am sure, regrets that decision, or at least will do soon!

Each side has laid their "evidence" out for all to see, so why do we need to keep going around in circles. Are we afraid that we may become insignificant and people might not notice us? Do we really need that much attention?

I hope not.

God Bless

Simon :prayer::pray:

[CryoftheNation]

I think this thread is heading for the debate section!!!!!

[CryoftheNation]

Yes

Whatever you say, it wouldn't be the first time I've been worshipped.

I sincerely hope you rejected that worship and pointed the person to God! ;)

I remember a story in the bible about a certain king who received the adulation of his people in the form of "you are our king and our god!" I also remember what happened to him! Not nice!

:bow:

[Father Rick]

Jesus said: "by this will all men know you are my disciples, by the love you have for one another."

He did NOT say that we would be known as his disciples by our correct theology (even though that is important).

When we become bitter, angry, and hateful toward brethren in an attempt to prove who is/is not from God, then we have not only missed the point completely but have actually fallen into Satan's trap.

When Satan can lead us into sin in an attempt to prove someone's "not from God"... well, I think that speaks for itself.

[CryoftheNation]

Jesus said: "by this will all men know you are my disciples, by the love you have for one another."

He did NOT say that we would be known as his disciples by our correct theology (even though that is important).

When we become bitter, angry, and hateful toward brethren in an attempt to prove who is/is not from God, then we have not only missed the point completely but have actually fallen into Satan's trap.

When Satan can lead us into sin in an attempt to prove someone's "not from God"... well, I think that speaks for itself.


Amen

[~RENEE~]

You know all this for sure?

Whyyyyyyyyy that would make you God. NOT.so recognizing that someone can not know things that only God knows makes me

Good old brain-washing.:preach:

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.brainwashed. Whatever. Someone don't like being told they are not God huh? I think so I think so.

Yes

Whatever you say, it wouldn't be the first time I've been worshipped.So then you think you're god? Lord have mercy on your soul.

[Amadeo65]

Most of everything written here against me is simply totally irrelevant. But I will look at one of them. One of you claimed "there is proof" from Doctors and so forth. What proof? So Bentley waves around an X-ray on the stage and claims he has proof. What does that prove? All it proves is that he says he has proof. And even if he had a little proof, what about all those people with SERIOUS problems who weren't healed at his revival meetings? And what about all the heresy he spews? You people keep going on over irrelevant things, you do not acknowledge anything with substance. No wonder then that you so easily fall for him.

[Alpine]

And even if he had a little proof, what about all those people with SERIOUS problems who weren't healed at his revival meetings?

I'm sure you've prayed for people at church that haven't been healed yet. I have. What does that mean?

[~RENEE~]

I'm sure you've prayed for people at church that haven't been healed yet. I have. What does that mean?
That's the problem some people think it's up to them.

[ShammahBenJudah]

Most of everything written here against me is simply totally irrelevant. But I will look at one of them. One of you claimed "there is proof" from Doctors and so forth. What proof? So Bentley waves around an X-ray on the stage and claims he has proof. What does that prove? All it proves is that he says he has proof. And even if he had a little proof, what about all those people with SERIOUS problems who weren't healed at his revival meetings? And what about all the heresy he spews? You people keep going on over irrelevant things, you do not acknowledge anything with substance. No wonder then that you so easily fall for him.

Actually...the point some of us are making is not to "speak against" you. The point is that your focus on evil is not relevant to us. IOW, Jesus is relevant, this topic is not.

[~RENEE~]

continue if you folks desire. To call all these people liars. When you have no idea who they ever are. You are the ones to answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76WDKzS7Yog&feature=related

[Amadeo65]

IOW, Jesus is relevant, this topic is not.
Ofcourse, deception in the Church wouldn't be relevant to people who believe in Todd Bentley! This thread is finished. It's been done for awhile, it ended when the best people could do about it is ignore reality.

[CryoftheNation]

Most of everything written here against me is simply totally irrelevant. But I will look at one of them. One of you claimed "there is proof" from Doctors and so forth. What proof? So Bentley waves around an X-ray on the stage and claims he has proof. What does that prove? All it proves is that he says he has proof. And even if he had a little proof, what about all those people with SERIOUS problems who weren't healed at his revival meetings? And what about all the heresy he spews? You people keep going on over irrelevant things, you do not acknowledge anything with substance. No wonder then that you so easily fall for him.

Ok since I posted this I suppose I ought to reply to you.

I was going to be nice but your sheer arrogance is astounding. You claim to want proof, but when presented with the idea that there might actually be some for you, you dismiss it as irrelevant.

Unfortunately, some people don't get healed when we want them to. That is one of lifes mysteries. Only God knows the reason.

Serious problems? so Death obviously isn't serious enough for you. Yes I said DEATH. they have proven resurrections. Proven people in wheelchairs who walk. Proven people with SERIOUS illnesses who have been healed. Proven deaf people hearing, proven blind seeing.

We have discussed time and time again the supposed heretical preaching and no one has yet been able to prove anything without resorting to doctored video, out of context quotes and fabrications. Everything Todd is preaching at his services is constantly scrutinized by the churches sponsoring the events. The moment any heresies came to light they would be stopped!

You sound very angry and bitter. What has Todd done to you? Did you not get healed of something when you needed it? Were you a victim of wrong teaching?

The problem isn't that we don't post anything of substance, we do with alarming regularity, you just ignore it or dismiss it. I suggested you contact freshfires.ca for the proof you seek. You said "And even if he had a little proof, what about all those people with SERIOUS problems who weren't healed at his revival meetings?" In other words we could bring God himself down to tell you it was true, you would still deny it.

I pray that you manage to sort out your anger and bitterness before God.

May God bless you my friend

Simon:prayer:

[CryoftheNation]

Ofcourse, deception in the Church wouldn't be relevant to people who believe in Todd Bentley! This thread is finished. It's been done for awhile, it ended when the best people could do about it is ignore reality.

Just because we dissagree doesn't mean we cannot be civil. You'll get no where by deliberately being insulting and offensive. We're all supposed to be on the same team. Can't we be freinds?

[Amadeo65]

was going to be nice but your sheer arrogance is astounding. You claim to want proof, but when presented with the idea that there might actually be some for you, you dismiss it as irrelevant.

Well, ofcourse I call it irrelevant, that's what the scripture teaches. You talk about miracles, but you don't actually comment on any of his heretical teachings. In fact, none of you actually care about the bizarre behavior or the strange things he says. What say you of Emma? What say you of Glory Portals opening up over cities? What say you of Angels bringing "money money money" onto the faithful? What say you of this "Manifest Sons of God" doctrine? Of this Joel's army of "name it and claim it" nonsense? (Ofcourse, they have to "sow" a seed first.) What say you of clucking like a chicken? And on and on and on it goes. I think I've shown well enough that any fool can do what Bentley does. He doesn't even need to be a Christian! He can just go up on any stage and claim this or that and people will believe him! People will fall to the floor and "manifest" the Holy Spirit! Well, with that settled, I'll need to find another angle tonight. Maybe when I get off work!

Serious problems? so Death obviously isn't serious enough for you. Yes I said DEATH. they have proven resurrections. Proven people in wheelchairs who walk. Proven people with SERIOUS illnesses who have been healed. Proven deaf people hearing, proven blind seeing.
Only in your mind, where most of his miracles actually operate.

The moment any heresies came to light they would be stopped!

HAHAHAHAHA, we're talking about Bob Jones, Patricia King, and all the other Elijah List freakazoids. Yeah, like THEY'RE going to stop heresy! So funny! As if anyone with any power in the Pentecostal movement is going to stop a heresy these days!

You sound very angry and bitter.
That's just the way I write. Actually, I am a very nice and cheerful person in real life.

[CryoftheNation]

Only in your mind, where most of his miracles actually operate.



I'm sorry but if you are going to be deliberately offensive then I don't know whether I can help you. However, I will try. I have to go out for a bit now, but will be back online in a couple of hours. We'll chat more then.

You call medical evidence only in my mind? I have seen this first hand in that God healed a young girl in my youth group who was deaf in one ear last weekend. I defy you to call that a hoax.

God Bless

Simon

[ShammahBenJudah]

Ofcourse, deception in the Church wouldn't be relevant to people who believe in Todd Bentley! This thread is finished. It's been done for awhile, it ended when the best people could do about it is ignore reality.

Sir, I think you've completely missed something here. I have not spoken in support of Todd Bentley. I simply pointed you to Christ...but you insist on pointing back at a man who you claim is evil.

I pointed back to Christ...and apparently that's irrelevant to you. You prefer to keep looking at what you think is 'evil'.

Why look at the evil around us and ask us to look at it too? Why not point us to the fathomless beauty of who Jesus is and encourage us to be like Him. Is it because this is what you think "church" is all about...witch hunting?

[BenAdam]

MOD HAT
Thread moved to Sprirt Filled / Charismatic Debate forum.
/MOD HAT

[CryoftheNation]

MOD HAT
Thread moved to Sprirt Filled / Charismatic Debate forum.
/MOD HAT


Thank you sire!!!! :thumbsup::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

[Alpine]

You didn't answer my post.

Originally Posted by Amadeo65 http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47680352#post47680352) And even if he had a little proof, what about all those people with SERIOUS problems who weren't healed at his revival meetings?

I'm sure you've prayed for people at church that haven't been healed yet. I have. What does that mean?

[~RENEE~]

Ofcourse, deception in the Church wouldn't be relevant to people who believe in Todd Bentley! This thread is finished. It's been done for awhile, it ended when the best people could do about it is ignore reality.
Reality is being ignored for the sake of being right no matter what.

[~RENEE~]

Only in your mind, where most of his miracles actually operate.
So then God don't actually do miracles? WEEEEEEEEEEl that would mean that God is liar.

Question do you believe that the gifts are still in existance of they have ceased?

[CryoftheNation]

Well, ofcourse I call it irrelevant, that's what the scripture teaches. You talk about miracles, but you don't actually comment on any of his heretical teachings.

That's because if you care to look around at any of the other threads this has been done to death many times.


In fact, none of you actually care about the bizarre behavior or the strange things he says. What say you of Emma?

You mean the angel Todd saw years ago. Well, nowhere in the bible does it give us a limited view of what angels are. Yes we have michael and gabriel but also the heavenly host, and other angelic beings mentioned throughout the bible. Nowhere does it say that angels cannot be male and female. infact since god created every other being male and female it could be taken (I'm not saying this is the case I don't know enough about angels, I am however learning) to show that God could make them female, or at least appear female if they needed to. Infact there are many testemonies from people who have had "angelic encounters" to suggest that angels can indeed appear female.

As for the accusation that "Emma" is infact "Emma-o" there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support this. The closest you can get is that the Japenese symbols on Todds arm appear SIMILAR (note this is not exactly the same!) as other writing that spells "Emma-o". Well forgive me for being synical of course there are similarities. Its like saying there are similarities in the name Simon and Simone. It means absolutely NOTHING. They are NOT the same!

If we listened to the so called watchmen on this site we'd be left thinking that all Todd preaches on is Emma. I haven't heard the name once! He rarely teaches on angels, and when he mentions them they are a sign as to someone being healed. Angels NEVER do the healing, they may help to bring the healing from God, as they bring the messages too! They cannot heal by themselves. Nowhere does Todd even suggest this.

What say you of Glory Portals opening up over cities?

It's a PHRASE to symbolise God showering His glory onto his people. Wanting to bless them.

Exo 33:18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."
Exo 33:19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Exo 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exo 33:21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock.
Exo 33:22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by.
Exo 33:23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."

In otherwords it is a physical manefestation of Gods presence. It is a place where you can meet deeply with God. It's the same as an open heaven.
(comes from Deu 28:12 The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. )

It is not a "portal into another world". You have to take these things in context, not just as a single phrase.

What say you of Angels bringing "money money money" onto the faithful? What say you of this "Manifest Sons of God" doctrine? Of this Joel's army of "name it and claim it" nonsense? (Ofcourse, they have to "sow" a seed first.)

So they may believe in the prosperity gospel. It's an interpretation of Gods word. It may not be your interpretation but so what? You may not have the correct one either! And from what I have seen of this ministry that is not what they are preaching. Not once have I heard Todd claim that you need to sow a seed into the ministry to experience the blessing, nor has he said God wants us rich. He has asked people to support either Ignited Church, Freshfire or God TV but check the accounts he only takes a MODEST living from freshfire and no more. It has been checked out by independant SECULAR news agencies. Todd is extremely open about his finances.

Joels Army -
"God is raising up a Joel’s Army—a spiritual army of young and old who will not fight with human weapons but with militant love and the raw power of God. We desire to strengthen prophetic words given by many prophets about a huge revival army of millions of radical soldiers that God is training to aggressively take ground for the Kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ"
Sounds pretty good to me! I wish there were more young people willing to stand in the gap with God They are not refering to the "army" in Joel as in the locusts. What they are refering to is Joel 2:28-29 (I'll include the surrounding verses so we have the context!)

Joe 2:27 Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am the LORD your God, and that there is no other; never again will my people be shamed.
Joe 2:28 "And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
Joe 2:29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
Joe 2:30 I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke.
Joe 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
Joe 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

That's the kind of army Todd is talking about here. Sons and Daugthers of God, who can move in the spirit, trained for spiritual warfare! Ready to do battle against the enemies of God. Not a horde of locusts!

What say you of clucking like a chicken? And on and on and on it goes.

Some of it comes under

Rom 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.

Now I don't know about clucking like a chicken! I have never seen that but I do know that in every meeting there are some who are not of God. Maybe, and I say MAYBE, this is the case here but without evidence as to whether this happened or not, and what was going on in that person I am not qualified to comment further, and to be honest neither is anyone else, without similar research, in my opinion.


I think I've shown well enough that any fool can do what Bentley does. He doesn't even need to be a Christian! He can just go up on any stage and claim this or that and people will believe him! People will fall to the floor and "manifest" the Holy Spirit! Well, with that settled, I'll need to find another angle tonight. Maybe when I get off work!


Actually anyone can do what Todd does. All it needs is obedience to God! Nowhere in the bible does it even suggest that spiritual gifts of miracles and healings are only for the first century church or the disciples. It is treated as normal and expected. Sure Satan can get someone on the stage and work miracles, but the one thing they cannot do is give the glory to God, proclaim Jesus as king and lord. And they cannot bring in Gods presence. If it is fake then it is ALL fake. God will not allow Himself to be mocked. He will not "use a small part of it" to bring a few faithfull to Him. Todd is preaching the Jesus of the Bible, salvation as in the Bible and healing as promised in the Bible. Nowhere is he preaching a different gospel.



Only in your mind, where most of his miracles actually operate.


As I said earlier, that comment Sir, was beneath you. You don't need to be insulting, especially if you want someone to understand your point of view and have a civilised conversation. Are you trying to say that miracles don't happen anymore? That's not biblical my friend.


HAHAHAHAHA, we're talking about Bob Jones, Patricia King, and all the other Elijah List freakazoids. Yeah, like THEY'RE going to stop heresy! So funny! As if anyone with any power in the Pentecostal movement is going to stop a heresy these days!

So you don't think much of them then? Oh well never mind. I have a lot of respect for a lot of people who have respect for them. I would trust them over you any day of the week. The only thing I know about you is your vitriolic rants on the net, not a good start. But you seem to only have respect for those people who agree with you, anyone else seems to be fair game for your "writing style".


That's just the way I write. Actually, I am a very nice and cheerful person in real life.

Then may I respectfully suggest that you change your writing style to one less confrontational. You might actually attract more people to you that way.

I hope this has helped.

God Bless

Simon

[CryoftheNation]

Sorry for the long post, there was a lot to cover!

:clap::clap:

[Amadeo65]

I'm sorry but if you are going to be deliberately offensive then I don't know whether I can help you. However, I will try. I have to go out for a bit now, but will be back online in a couple of hours. We'll chat more then.

Help me? How do you know you aren't the one in need of help? However, I am not all that interested in actually helping you in particular. I had my mind set on someone else, but I doubt they even read the thread. Whatever the case, I'll handle prosperity doctrine and other "Manifest Sons of God" heresies later.

[ShammahBenJudah]

Help me? How do you know you aren't the one in need of help? However, I am not all that interested in actually helping you in particular. I had my mind set on someone else, but I doubt they even read the thread. Whatever the case, I'll handle prosperity doctrine and other "Manifest Sons of God" heresies later.

And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:7

Doesn't it make sense that if the peace of God will keep us safe...that would be the optimal pursuit?

I'm looking for the peace of the good news of Jesus here...coming up short in my perception.

If that's the case...this contends with the true gospel of Christ?

And what does the scripture say to do with those who preach any other gospel?

[CryoftheNation]

Help me? How do you know you aren't the one in need of help? However, I am not all that interested in actually helping you in particular. I had my mind set on someone else, but I doubt they even read the thread. Whatever the case, I'll handle prosperity doctrine and other "Manifest Sons of God" heresies later.


By help I meant understanding my point of view. Nothing more. And since you responded directly to my earlier post I presumed we were having a conversation. Sorry!

[charityagape]

I'll handle prosperity doctrine and other "Manifest Sons of God" heresies later.

:thumbsup: Good to know you'll tackling those issues.

[CryoftheNation]

Help me? How do you know you aren't the one in need of help? However, I am not all that interested in actually helping you in particular. I had my mind set on someone else, but I doubt they even read the thread. Whatever the case, I'll handle prosperity doctrine and other "Manifest Sons of God" heresies later.

Bumped to give Amadeo65 a little reminder to handle the heresies for me!!

Thanks

God bless

Simon

[Alpine]

You didn't answer my post.

Originally Posted by Amadeo65 http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47680352#post47680352) And even if he had a little proof, what about all those people with SERIOUS problems who weren't healed at his revival meetings?
I'm sure you've prayed for people at church that haven't been healed yet. I have. What does that mean?

[Mathetes the kerux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0ZRFPfxSs

He slew people "in the Spirit", talked about using this "power" to heal "conditions" and other problems, and, oh, there were people "Laughing in the Spirit".... All he has to do now is confess Jesus and we can call this a Revival!! Catch the Wave everybody!

THAT IS SCARY!

I am glad that the true sign of revival is repentance in lieu of the Gospel!

[charityagape]

repentance in lieu of the Gospel!
????

[charityagape]

in lieu of

Definition

Instead of, in place of.

[Mathetes the kerux]

in lieu of

Definition

Instead of, in place of.

Erk.:doh:

Seems I have been misusing the idiom!:o:sorry:

I mean "in light of"^_^