Forget Jesus!!!! Let's call down the angels!!!!

[GodsGlory]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlHWyA1eUBA

[~RENEE~]

anoyone with half a brain can tell that sound was looped to make it appear like he was constantly saying that. Come on this diatribe ain't foolin anyone.

[GodsGlory]

anoyone with half a brain can tell that sound was looped to make it appear like he was constantly saying that. Come on this diatribe ain't foolin anyone.

Anyone with half a brain would have listened to more than two seconds of the video and realized it wasn't looped.

[probinson]

Well, I listened to all 3:16 of that video, and not once did I hear the words "forget Jesus".

Minor detail, I suppose...

[GodsGlory]

You wouldn't have heard "forget Jesus" since the guy spent the whole three minutes begging the angels to come down!! ^_^

[Amadeo65]

He's a hypnotist, is not the video of Marjoe Gortner proof enough that these people are fakes? They play upon the blind faith of the audience, bringing them up to fall under the power of their own minds. What more proof is required? Marjoe did it, and he admitted he was fake. They fell under the "power" just like with Bentley, they fell and shook on the floor just like Bentley. They claimed to be healed and "made whole" just like the people of Bentley. What's the difference? Todd hasn't admitted to being a fake yet.

Just think about that "Knighting" ceremony that occurred not too long ago with all those alleged "Prophets" and Apostles praying over him. It was a love fest, all giving honor one upon the other. With one "Prophetess" shaking her head and hissing like a demoniac while she spoke words from the "Lord". Ofcourse, she was only pretending. They give Honor one onto the other, they exalt themselves and pretend to have power in Heaven and in Earth. However, there are no 'Portals' of glory. There is no angel "Emma". There are no angels of "finance" who will bring "Financial breakthroughs" or 'Money money money!" (exact quote of a prophet on that Bentley show) down on the faithful. It's all just a silly lie, an absurd and idiotic lie. Any who fall under the spell of that nonsense deserve to be deluded.

[GodsGlory]

He's a hypnotist, is not the video of Marjoe Gortner proof enough that these people are fakes? They play upon the blind faith of the audience, bringing them up to fall under the power of their own minds. What more proof is required? Marjoe did it, and he admitted he was fake. They fell under the "power" just like with Bentley, they fell and shook on the floor just like Bentley. They claimed to be healed and "made whole" just like the people of Bentley. What's the difference? Todd hasn't admitted to being a fake yet.

Just think about that "Knighting" ceremony that occurred not too long ago with all those alleged "Prophets" and Apostles praying over him. It was a love fest, all giving honor one upon the other. With one "Prophetess" shaking her head and hissing like a demoniac while she spoke words from the "Lord". Ofcourse, she was only pretending. They give Honor one onto the other, they exalt themselves and pretend to have power in Heaven and in Earth. However, there are no 'Portals' of glory. There is no angel "Emma". There are no angels of "finance" who will bring "Financial breakthroughs" or 'Money money money!" (exact quote of a prophet on that Bentley show) down on the faithful. It's all just a silly lie, an absurd and idiotic lie. Any who fall under the spell of that nonsense deserve to be deluded.

Portals??? What is this, Doctor Who??? Stargate??? ^_^

[probinson]

There is no angel "Emma". There are no angels of "finance" who will bring "Financial breakthroughs" or 'Money money money!" (exact quote of a prophet on that Bentley show) down on the faithful.
Is this the new stance, because most everyone else on your side of this argument seems to think that Emma exists, and is demonic.

So, does Emma not exist at all, or does Emma exist and is demonic?

[probinson]

I'll leave you all with this clip from the same revival where the OP claims that the message is "forget Jesus"...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JUd5ldBJz7s

[GodsGlory]

....

[Amadeo65]

Is this the new stance, because most everyone else on your side of this argument seems to think that Emma exists, and is demonic.

So, does Emma not exist at all, or does Emma exist and is demonic?

New stance? I stand on my own, my opinions are my own, this has been my "position" since the very beginning. Believing that the devil works through these charlatans might be giving them too much credit. Surely the Devil can pick out some more competent deceivers to do his work! These people are clowns. "Portals", "Financial Breakthroughs", releasing the "Angels of finance", "Extreme Prophetic" super miracles, and on and on and on, this is their silly terminology.

Ofcourse it would be hypnotism. Ofcourse it would be hyped up emotion. The evidence is clear and settled, but no one will acknowledge it. This is not the Devil or God, it is a man playing upon emotion and hype to induce people into "mystical" trances. It is the mind that is knocking people down when Bentley touches them, just the same way Morjoe did it, just the same way "Hypnotists" at stage shows can do it. That they all claim to be "of God" and claim all this "glory" and "glory waves" and "faith hitting the congregation" does not make them Christians. What matters is the meat of what they teach, and what they teach is simply empty and absurd. If any man is saved by this, he is converted into a Church that talks empty nonsense. He'll come, and when he snaps out of the illusion he'll be broken and alone.

[GodsGlory]

The proof that some of this stuff is fake is that we would NEVER do this stuff outside the church or the revival meeting. We'll only do it in God's Funhouse Mirror [the church] where the warped, bizarre, distorted, and misshapen passes for what is normal. We'd never do it at our job. We'd never do it in at the grocery store. We'd never do it at the police station. We'd never do it during a city hall meeting. We'd never do it on the used car lot. We'd never do it in the pizza and beer joint. We'd never do it at the bowling alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjl5wKso9eU

Which reminds me of this [since Todd likes wrestling]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkrO6P_tERc

[Amadeo65]

Hey, I just posted that video in another thread.

[Shizzle]

God could lead him to do that, how can one be sure he wouldnt? Im feelin that video reaaal deeply. Its vanity to be sure hes false and foolishness to be sure hes genuine, didnt God send a prophet to run naked? And another to eat food cooked over poop for a year?

[ImmersionX]

Well, I listened to all 3:16 of that video, and not once did I hear the words "forget Jesus".

Minor detail, I suppose...

3:16????!!!!!???!!??!! Coincidence?

Nah j/k you all know my opinion on TB.:tutu:

Peace and God Bless.

[Amadeo65]

I heard 'Forget Jesus' in that video. I hear it in every video I see of Mr.Bentley.

[ImmersionX]

Bentley is a showman. He's worthless to the Body of Christ.

nuff said on that.

Peace and God Bless.

[ShammahBenJudah]

So...which is the greater evil...glorifying "self" or tearing down others? Neither gives any glory to God.

If the message of truth is in us, would it not be better for us to shout it from the rooftops than to debate what untruths are in the closet?

[Amadeo65]

If the message of truth is in us, would it not be better for us to shout it from the rooftops than to debate what untruths are in the closet?

The truth is that Bentley is a false prophet. IOW, we are shouting the truth from the rooftops, or, atleast, we're writing it very loudly on a internet forum.

[GodsGlory]

The Bible is full of all kinds of warnings about false prophets.

[ShammahBenJudah]

The truth is that Bentley is a false prophet. IOW, we are shouting the truth from the rooftops, or, atleast, we're writing it very loudly on a internet forum.

And that's the message of truth we're commissioned to deliver?

To heck with the gospel...let's stone all the false prophets we can find?

The truth of Christ revealed will overcome the garbage...not us digging around in the garbage with them.

[Amadeo65]

And that's the message of truth we're commissioned to deliver?

To heck with the gospel...let's stone all the false prophets we can find?

The truth of Christ revealed will overcome the garbage...not us digging around in the garbage with them.

The truth is Christ wouldn't want us to blind ourselves to the delusion of false prophets. Our men of God have been coming against deceivers since the very beginning. Christ Himself started that tradition! If it is so irrelevant to you, cease writing and speak elsewhere.

[ImmersionX]

God could lead him to do that, how can one be sure he wouldnt? Im feelin that video reaaal deeply. Its vanity to be sure hes false and foolishness to be sure hes genuine, didnt God send a prophet to run naked? And another to eat food cooked over poop for a year?

*sighs* and what's the point of this??:???? please.

[ImmersionX]

So...which is the greater evil...glorifying "self" or tearing down others? Neither gives any glory to God.

If the message of truth is in us, would it not be better for us to shout it from the rooftops than to debate what untruths are in the closet?

I'm gonna answer this question once and for all:

SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS, cause I don't see anyone who says the type of stuff I quoted here doing that very thing! Self righteous tripe.

[ShammahBenJudah]

The truth is Christ wouldn't want us to blind ourselves to the delusion of false prophets. Our men of God have been coming against deceivers since the very beginning. Christ Himself started that tradition! If it is so irrelevant to you, cease writing and speak elsewhere.

It isn't irrelevant at all. How many false prophets and teachers are out there? They're like wildfires popping up all over. In spite of the "watchman's" efforts, they multiply around us. Why?

If we spend the effort teaching how to discern the truth, it doesn't matter how many there are, we won't follow them. But if we spend all our time naming names, noone really learns to discern for themselves, they just know a handfull of "bad names". And that's beneficial how?

[ShammahBenJudah]

I'm gonna answer this self righteous question once and for all:

SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS, cause I don't see anyone who says the type of stuff I quoted here doing that very thing! Self righteous tripe.


Excuse me?

Sir I have given you Godly counsel.

Take it or not, but it is quite scriptural and given for the purpose of life to all who hear. Forgive me if you have taken offense, it wasn't intended.

[ImmersionX]

Excuse me?

Sir I have given you Godly counsel.

Take it or not, but it is quite scriptural and given for the purpose of life to all who hear. Forgive me if you have taken offense, it wasn't intended.

No no Ben...seriously I've never taken offense to anything you've said.
Thanks for your past counsel....
In fact I reread my response to your statment...I edited the "self righteous" part...cause it's honestly not due in my original response...my apologies. I believe we agree....and you offered a legit question.

:)

[Amadeo65]

Bah Humbug. I am not sure what your point is. So what that we are working against Bentley? It is our duty as Christians to point out a charlatan. That doesn't mean that's ALL we do or CAN do. Do you really want to know why there are so many false prophets in this world? Because of ignorance. To remain silent only encourages ignorance of these people and of their ungodly workings.

[Elijah2]

According to TB on one of his video’s he had said that “It’s not all about Jesus!”

However, I came across this video on http://battle4truth.wordpress.com/ (http://battle4truth.wordpress.com/) and after viewing it, then how much more evidence do believers of our Lord Jesus Christ need to know and see that TB isn’t teaching or preaching the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, but another new age gospel. TB has apparently claimed that God told him that people already know about Jesus, and now all he has to do is to get people to believe in the angel/angels, and to believe in “the supernatural”.

You will notice on the video, that he said that the woman “is the one”, and then he bammed her, shunting her backwards a number of times, and then he interrogated her---did our Lord Jesus Christ do that when HE healed? Then after his questioning to no avail, his game was over, when she said that she didn’t feel the Holy Spirit of nothing, and he just walked away from her like a stunned mullet.

On the second point, there is “NOWHERE” in His Word that says that we must elevate angels, or anywhere where the apostles tried to get people to “believe in the angel/angels” at the expense of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ. It’s ALL about our Lord Jesus Christ, pre and post conversion. Once you elevate angels above our Lord Jesus Christ, that angel becomes an idol because our Lord Jesus Christ doesn’t take first place. The other spirit that is being brought to bear, is the Kunanlini.

“Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.” (Col. 2:18-19)

[ImmersionX]

Bah Humbug. I am not sure what your point is. So what that we are working against Bentley? It is our duty as Christians to point out a charlatan. That doesn't mean that's ALL we do or CAN do. Do you really want to know why there are so many false prophets in this world? Because of ignorance. To remain silent only encourages ignorance of these people and of their ungodly workings.

Who's point?

MY point is simple: TB needs love and TRUTH!

Nuff said.

[CryoftheNation]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who have admitted they have never watched a REAL TB meeting (Except in you tube clips or clips from other sites (Which may or may not have an agenda of their own) ) claim so much authority over him. If you had watched a SINGLE meeting you would know that it is ALL about Christ. In EVERY meeting Christ is held up as Lord and Saviour. He is also given all the glory for healings. Angels do not do the healings but they do help to minister it! When Todd sees an angel it is a sign that God wants to do healing or a miracle in the persons life who the angel points out! In other words the angel is there to ANNOUNCE Gods healing. At NO point does Todd ever say that Angels are responsible for healing. GOD is the only one who can heal. Judge a prophet / healer / evangelist by his fruit.

Does he bring glory to God? YES
Does he lead people to the cross? YES hundreds
IS Jesus lifted high? YES

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

Mark 9:38-40 NIV

God Bless

Simon

[CryoftheNation]

Wow, what a liar you are. I never said the message is "forget Jesus".

With all due respect your original post was

Forget Jesus!!!! Let's call down the angels!!!!

Easy to see where the inference came from.

[irenemcg]

Todd Bentley and Fresh Fire Ministries are angel conscious because they have first sought Jesus. All the praise and all the glory from what I can see goes to the Lord Jesus Christ. They do not lift their hands to another, but in the presence of Jesus and His glory angels are present.

[Elijah2]

Todd Bentley and Fresh Fire Ministries are angel conscious because they have first sought Jesus. All the praise and all the glory from what I can see goes to the Lord Jesus Christ. They do not lift their hands to another, but in the presence of Jesus and His glory angels are present.

Yes many do raise their hand to Jesus, but which Jesus?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[charityagape]

Originally Posted by GodsGlory http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47647191#post47647191) Wow, what a liar you are. I never said the message is "forget Jesus".


Well there's a friendly post guaranteed to garner respect.

[irenemcg]

Yes many do raise their hand to Jesus, but which Jesus?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

The Lord Jesus Christ, He who died for our sins, the Son of the Living God, He who was with the Father in creation, He who is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end- the eternal one and He sits at the Father's right hand today.His blood was shed to redeem us from sin and by His grace and mercy we have been saved. He is our Great High Priest making intercession for us with the Father. He is the baptizer with the Holy Spirit. He gave us the right to become children of God.

Because of God's Grace, we are "blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places in Christ!" Why not begin to accept what God has made us to be in Christ?

Rom 6:11-14. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

We are to reckon ourselves dead to sin, for sin no longer has dominion over us, we should flee from temptations to sin, giving ourselves over to our Lord. When we do sin we should repent. WE ARE NOW ALIVE IN CHRIST.



Col 3:1-4 1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4.When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory

We are raised with Christ, we are to seek the things above for our Lord is seated at the Father’s right hand and we have been raised with Him. We have died to our old man and have been hidden with Christ in God. At the time of the Second Coming we the bride, will appear with Him in glory. As Christians we have experienced a radical change of spiritual environment and this should affect our whole mode of life. Having been raised with Christ, we now move in a new sphere.
Normal human ambition sees things in terms of this world. But we have been raised with Christ and should see things from an eternal perspective, and so should want our lives on earth to be reflect the pattern of life seen in the glorified Christ...to “seek those things which are above” is to aim at emulating the characteristics of the Christ in glory’

It is Jesus we seek and to live for Him alone..

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Is this the new stance, because most everyone else on your side of this argument seems to think that Emma exists, and is demonic.

So, does Emma not exist at all, or does Emma exist and is demonic?

No clue. But seriously doubts God would name an angel "Emma" (a rather dull name given to earth females that enjoyed some brief popularity in the 1940s) and we all know scripture states the dead know nothing and do not return, moreover that angels bes another species, NOT "dead souls in heaven" despite popular cliches. So it looks pretty doubtful for "Emma" being real. Of course if people want to believe in unreal things, demons can and do at times exploit that (or even instigate it) but it appears most of what bes going on here bes simple mind tricks. Dumbo's magick feather stuff. Because most Christians already bes deluded into thinking faith and relationship with Christ bes nothing but a Dumbo's magic feather trip anyway, they bes likely to fall for it.

All this IMO.

[probinson]

Wow, what a liar you are. I never said the message is "forget Jesus".
Really? Because the title of your thread contains the words "Forget Jesus", and to drive home that point, you used 4, count them, 4 exclamation points...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/Smilies/rolleyes.gif

[freedomnchrist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjl5wKso9eU


That scared me!:confused:

*Reminder to self not to open any more videos.:doh:

[GodsGlory]

Really? Because the title of your thread contains the words "Forget Jesus", and to drive home that point, you used 4, count them, 4 exclamation points...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/Smilies/rolleyes.gif

I will stand by that statement, too, because I myself was stating 'forget Jesus / let's call down the angels' in a sarcastic sense of humor. Do you read the statement "Todd has told us to forget Jesus" ??? No. But this is what you implied, so I felt I had to answer it.

[probinson]

I will stand by that statement, too, because I myself was stating 'forget Jesus / let's call down the angels' in a sarcastic sense of humor. Do you read the statement "Todd has told us to forget Jesus" ??? No. But this is what you implied, so I felt I had to answer it.
Actually, that's what I inferred from what I thought you implied...

[charityagape]

No one can know what you actually meant, but I thought that's what you were implying too.

[GodsGlory]

I'll leave you all with this clip from the same revival where the OP claims that the message is "forget Jesus"...


Words are everything on forums.

You stated "the OP claims that the message is 'forget Jesus' ..."

No such claim appeared in the OP.

The TITLE stated "forget Jesus, lets just call on the angels" as a tag to draw people in to the topic. It was meant as both sarcasm and humor.

So now you understand.


Hopefully.

[probinson]

Words are everything on forums.

You stated "the OP claims that the message is 'forget Jesus' ..."

No such claim appeared in the OP.

The TITLE stated "forget Jesus, lets just call on the angels" as a tag to draw people in to the topic. It was meant as both sarcasm and humor.

So now you understand.


Hopefully.
So, you chose the thread title just to get people to click on it and read it, and we're all just supposed to know that it was sarcastic and humorous?

Words are everything on forums.

[CryoftheNation]

Unfortunately you didn't make that clear. Todds teaching is clearly NOT "forget Jesus". In none of his teaching will you find Him even contemplating that. To even infer that, even in "sarcasm" is unfair and actually totally misleading!

[GodsGlory]

Okay, well forget what YOU thought I meant - now I'm telling you.

So just let go of it, and move on in this discussion.

[CryoftheNation]

So now you're offended because you made a mistake and gave everyone the impression that you were accusing Todd of saying forget Jesus. Oh well! Maybe you should choose your words with a little more care, rather than simply going for the cheap shot guaranteed to offend people or mislead.

Ok so what we have is a section of audio lifted from who knows where, parts that may have been looped, may not. The footage has been deliberately doctored (video wise) to say whatever the poster wishes. We cannot tell what was said before or after this small section.

Taken out of context I can prove almost anything I want. As I have said before, To understand what is going on you need to actually look at the ministry, not just small doctored you tube clips.

Nice try, but you still cannot get around this.

Does he bring glory to God? YES
Does he lead people to the cross? YES hundreds
IS Jesus lifted high? YES

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

Mark 9:38-40 NIV

God Bless

Simon


Angels are a necessary part of spiritual warfare. They are as real as demons. Bentley is not at any point even this one advocating angels over God or Jesus.

[JAS4Yeshua]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2170/2054930903_6818638e89.jpg

MOD HAT ON

This thread was moved into the Charismatic Debate Subforum. Please be aware that main Spirit-Filled / Charismatic forum is now debate free.

Please refer to this announcement for more information: http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7253303

Thank you.

MOD HAT OFF

[~RENEE~]

this is a cut and paste from the ledger dot com.

It is a statement from the pastor of ignited.


The Rev. Stephen Strader, pastor of Ignited Church, who invited Bentley to Lakeland, is a minister in the Assemblies of God, and his church is part of the Peninsular Florida District of the Assemblies. He said he agreed with Wood and the statement from the Assemblies headquarters.
"We have the exact same concerns. We watch over everything. Everything that happens on the platform is scriptural," he said. Strader and Bentley say there has been very little talk about angels at the Florida Outpouring.
"Emma has never been part of this outpouring. It was an experience Todd had seven years ago, and it's been totally blown out of proportion," Strader said. "The nightly message has been totally 100 percent nothing but Jesus. People looking for a problem or a heresy, they're going to find it."
When ever one goes looking for something they will find it. Are we looking GOD or heresy?

And yes that video was doctored.

[Ajax 777]

Angels are a necessary part of spiritual warfare. They are as real as demons. Bentley is not at any point even this one advocating angels over God or Jesus.

I must take issue with this.

Angels are NOT necessary for the spiritual warfare WE are to wage. We do NOT call on angels, we call on the Name of the Lord, Whom the holy angels serve. We do NOT put our trust in angels, we put our trust in the Lord, Whom the holy angels ALSO trust. We do NOT expect angels to do our fighting for us, no...we put on our spiritual armor, and take up our spiritual sword which is the Word of God,
and we fight the good fight, and war against our flesh, and against powers, prinicipalities, rulers of darkness, and wickedness in high places...fighting alongside the angels, perhaps, but not depending on the angels themselves, but only on the Lord, upon Whom the holy angels ALSO depend...

And don't say that this is what you meant,
or that it is semantics I am arguing, because as was already stated, words are everything on a forum.

Just remember how John was rebuked by the angel who had shown him the vision of Revelation while he was exiled on the isle of Patmos...he fell down to worship the angel, but was told,
"Do not do that! I am a fellow servant of yours, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

[probinson]

I have to wonder why, if angels are unimportant to warfare, that God sent Daniel an angel...
Daniel 10:11-13 (AMP)
11 And [the angel] said to me, O Daniel, you greatly beloved man, understand the words that I speak to you and stand upright, for to you I am now sent. And while he was saying this word to me, I stood up trembling. 12 Then he said to me, Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your mind and heart to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come as a consequence of [and in response to] your words.13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me for twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief [of the celestial] princes, came to help me, for I remained there with the kings of Persia.

[Ajax 777]

I have to wonder why, if angels are unimportant to warfare, that God sent Daniel an angel...
Daniel 10:11-13 (AMP)
11 And [the angel] said to me, O Daniel, you greatly beloved man, understand the words that I speak to you and stand upright, for to you I am now sent. And while he was saying this word to me, I stood up trembling. 12 Then he said to me, Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your mind and heart to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come as a consequence of [and in response to] your words.13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me for twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief [of the celestial] princes, came to help me, for I remained there with the kings of Persia.


Well, you just said this part correctly: "God sent Daniel an angel."
It was GOD Who sent him...not the angel deciding himself to come...

Like it says, Daniel's words were heard because he humbled himself before God, not because he trusted in angels. God heard Daniel's words, and Daniel had been praying to God, and fasting and weeping before the Lord...the angel came to Daniel, I feel certain, on nothing less than God's command, because of his words, yes, which were spoken to the LORD.

Oh, that so many of us would follow that same example of obedience rather than self-will.

[PK For Real]

The proof that some of this stuff is fake is that we would NEVER do this stuff outside the church or the revival meeting. We'll only do it in God's Funhouse Mirror [the church] where the warped, bizarre, distorted, and misshapen passes for what is normal. We'd never do it at our job. We'd never do it in at the grocery store. We'd never do it at the police station. We'd never do it during a city hall meeting. We'd never do it on the used car lot. We'd never do it in the pizza and beer joint. We'd never do it at the bowling alley.

Which reminds me of this [since Todd likes wrestling]


Yeah...I'm sure she needed a chiropractor after that epileptic fit. Holy Ghost induced whiplash FTW!

[CryoftheNation]

I never once said that we depend on angels. Only that they were a neccesary part of spiritual warfare. They fight for God under His direction. I do not advocate puting our trust in angels, nor putting them before God. They can do nothing apart from God, just like us.

I don't see anyone here advocating following self will. We are all trying to be obedient to God in the way we believe he is telling us to.

[Ajax 777]

I don't see anyone here advocating following self will. We are all trying to be obedient to God in the way we believe he is telling us to.

Sorry, brother, if you felt like I was addressing that part to you...
it was just a general admonishment, meant to exhort anyone who read it and felt convicted by it...

I just said what I felt needed to be said, that's all.

[CryoftheNation]

Sorry, brother, if you felt like I was addressing that part to you...
it was just a general admonishment, meant to exhort anyone who read it and felt convicted by it...

I just said what I felt needed to be said, that's all.


No problem bro!

God Bless

Simon

[Jimbeaux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlHWyA1eUBA

Old heresies die hard.
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. (Colossians 2)
~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[Mea Culpa]

Mark 9: 38-39

Jesus Forbids Sectarianism

38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”
39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uE8oIlA6VEE&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=A75aVmcviOk&feature=related

[Elijah2]

I came across this audio recording awhile ago, and like most believers of our Lord Jesus Christ I shook my head in disbelief and despair to what I was hearing. If you have any doubt that TB isn’t what others say that he is, such as a dangerous false prophet, then have a listen to the audio: http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Bentleys-Strange-World (http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Bentleys-Strange-World)

TB said: “Now for some of you that are here, it doesn't really matter to you ... all that stuff. All you care about is ... God's moving. And you know what, that's all that really matters. So if you're not big on prophetic, supernatural, and angels, I'm sorry. It's my testimony. But if you want to know why God's moving, I have to tell you the whole story. And if you don't believe the story, well......sorry.”

No doubt TB is saying that our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ is moving in his ministry, because of the supernatural and angels?

He said: “You know, I told the Lord, ‘Why can't I just move in healing and forget talking about all that -other stuff?’ He said, ‘Because, Todd you've got to get the people to believe in the angel.’ I said, ‘God, why do I want people to believe in the angel? Isn't it about getting the people to believe in Jesus?’ He said, ‘The people already believe in Jesus, but the Church doesn't believe in the supernatural.’”

This is frightening?

TB is telling us that believing in ANGELS is more important than preaching and teaching our Lord Jesus Christ!

Now the warning lights go on when our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, tells TB that he has to get people to believe in “THIS, HIS ANGEL”. Why TB’s “special angel”? What angel is TB talking about, because he mentions many angels, such as: Emma; Samael; The Winds of Change Angel; The Financial Angel; The Angel of Liberty; The Healing Revival Angel; and William Branham’s angel?

Now, when we test the TBs spirits and weigh TBs angelogy and teaching up against His Word, we see the demonic and occult, and a teaching that is rife with angels. Who is this “special angel” that his “lord” (Angel of light?) wants him to make the Body of Christ to believe in? We know that from past writings or his early days he made made many references on stage that he attributed the healings to his angel Emma. TB invited people onstage so that his “special angel” could enter them. This same angel is talked about in great length by TB in his teachings on “The Angelic Host”.

Anyway, we can express our concerns as much as we like on the past, but many articles and blogs on the internet that rose our concerns and condemning him as a heretic and false prophet/teachers, particularly the references to Emma, have magically disappeared from his website. As we see “signs and wonders” here, “Now you see them---now you don’t”!

TB continues on: “The Church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don't believe in is the supernatural. We don't believe in angels. We don't believe in the prophetic. We don't believe in some of what's going on. And I'll tell you what; we need to have an awakening. I said, ‘Well, God, maybe you want to give this ministry to somebody else, because nobody's going to receive it in the package that I come in?’ I said, ‘You gotta give me the most controversial testimony? You gotta visit me with all this supernatural stuff?’ I mean, hey, maybe if I was a little more clean-shaven and polished, people would believe me more. Or maybe, the world is looking for something new... How many of you believe we need something new?”

What is TB saying here? Is he telling our Almighty God that people were not going to receive his ministry because of his outer appearance that he (Bentley) comes in, such as piercings, tattoos and showmanship. Now we all know from videos that he is clean cut and clean shaven, but he tattooed and pierced himself well after he established his ministry. If he is going to complain to our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, Y’shua that no one one would receive him because of the way he looks, then why did he do it in the first place?

What doesn’t make sense, is that, he is complaining that our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, Y’shua is visiting him with all this supernatural stuff, yet he is the only one who is actively pursuing it.

Are we the the only ones who thinks that TBs thinking and teaching is completely and utterly insane, and false

[probinson]

Interestingly enough, the article at that link is titled "No room for Jesus in Bentley's Strange World".

The articles states (emphasis added), "S...o Todd Bentley is telling us that getting people to believe in THE angel is more important than preaching Jesus..." Which sounds real scary and everything, except if you actually listen to the clip, you'll find no such statement. Instead, this is the conclusion that is drawn by the author of the article, who felt it necessary to once again add his own commentary rather than letting people read and hear the words for themselves.


I guess he must not have seen the thousands of people standing around singing about the wonderful name of Jesus at the revival on YouTube, because surely he wouldn't have titled the article "No room for Jesus..." if he had, would he?

[~RENEE~]

I came across this audio recording awhile ago, and like most believers of our Lord Jesus Christ I shook my head in disbelief and despair to what I was hearing. If you have any doubt that TB isn’t what others say that he is, such as a dangerous false prophet, then have a listen to the audio: http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Bentleys-Strange-World (http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Bentleys-Strange-World)

TB said: “Now for some of you that are here, it doesn't really matter to you ... all that stuff. All you care about is ... God's moving. And you know what, that's all that really matters. So if you're not big on prophetic, supernatural, and angels, I'm sorry. It's my testimony. But if you want to know why God's moving, I have to tell you the whole story. And if you don't believe the story, well......sorry.”

No doubt TB is saying that our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ is moving in his ministry, because of the supernatural and angels?

He said: “You know, I told the Lord, ‘Why can't I just move in healing and forget talking about all that -other stuff?’ He said, ‘Because, Todd you've got to get the people to believe in the angel.’ I said, ‘God, why do I want people to believe in the angel? Isn't it about getting the people to believe in Jesus?’ He said, ‘The people already believe in Jesus, but the Church doesn't believe in the supernatural.’”

This is frightening?

TB is telling us that believing in ANGELS is more important than preaching and teaching our Lord Jesus Christ!

Now the warning lights go on when our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, tells TB that he has to get people to believe in “THIS, HIS ANGEL”. Why TB’s “special angel”? What angel is TB talking about, because he mentions many angels, such as: Emma; Samael; The Winds of Change Angel; The Financial Angel; The Angel of Liberty; The Healing Revival Angel; and William Branham’s angel?

Now, when we test the TBs spirits and weigh TBs angelogy and teaching up against His Word, we see the demonic and occult, and a teaching that is rife with angels. Who is this “special angel” that his “lord” (Angel of light?) wants him to make the Body of Christ to believe in? We know that from past writings or his early days he made made many references on stage that he attributed the healings to his angel Emma. TB invited people onstage so that his “special angel” could enter them. This same angel is talked about in great length by TB in his teachings on “The Angelic Host”.

Anyway, we can express our concerns as much as we like on the past, but many articles and blogs on the internet that rose our concerns and condemning him as a heretic and false prophet/teachers, particularly the references to Emma, have magically disappeared from his website. As we see “signs and wonders” here, “Now you see them---now you don’t”!

TB continues on:“The Church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don't believe in is the supernatural. We don't believe in angels. We don't believe in the prophetic. We don't believe in some of what's going on. And I'll tell you what; we need to have an awakening. I said, ‘Well, God, maybe you want to give this ministry to somebody else, because nobody's going to receive it in the package that I come in?’ I said, ‘You gotta give me the most controversial testimony? You gotta visit me with all this supernatural stuff?’ I mean, hey, maybe if I was a little more clean-shaven and polished, people would believe me more. Or maybe, the world is looking for something new... How many of you believe we need something new?”

What is TB saying here? Is he telling our Almighty God that people were not going to receive his ministry because of his outer appearance that he (Bentley) comes in, such as piercings, tattoos and showmanship. Now we all know from videos that he is clean cut and clean shaven, but he tattooed and pierced himself well after he established his ministry. If he is going to complain to our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, Y’shua that no one one would receive him because of the way he looks, then why did he do it in the first place?

What doesn’t make sense, is that, he is complaining that our Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, Y’shua is visiting him with all this supernatural stuff, yet he is the only one who is actively pursuing it.

Are we the the only ones who thinks that TBs thinking and teaching is completely and utterly insane, and false
I watched that entire service live. And all he said is not in that video. It was started at a certain point and stopped at a certain point only to prove on thing. The heresy hunters that did this chopped it up to prove their point of their religion.

[~RENEE~]

The splendor of the King, clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice
All the earth rejoice

He wraps himself in Light, and darkness tries to hide
And trembles at His voice
Trembles at His voice

How great is our God, sing with me
How great is our God, and all will see
How great, how great is our God

Age to age He stands
And time is in His hands
Beginning and the end
Beginning and the end

The Godhead Three in One
Father Spirit Son
The Lion and the Lamb
The Lion and the Lamb

How great is our God, sing with me
How great is our God, and all will see
How great, how great is our God

Name above all names
Worthy of all praise
My heart will sing
How great is our God

Name above all names
Worthy of all praise
My heart will sing
How great is our God

How great is our God, sing with me
How great is our God, and all will see
How great, how great is our God

You are so right this is just heresy. How could they be singing something so horrible as this.

[Elijah2]

I watched that entire service live. And all he said is not in that video. It was started at a certain point and stopped at a certain point only to prove on thing. The heresy hunters that did this chopped it up to prove their point of their religion.

Mmmm, thanks Renee, it looks as though it was got at as well. One minute it's there, next minute it's gone, all those signs and wonders.

Sorry, to see that you like using the word "heresy hunters", when there is no such word in His Word.

But, if you are referring to those concerned believers of our Lord Jesus Christ who don't chase after angels or as such, then that's between you and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Only concerned believers of our Lord Jesus Christ can warn and leave it to them. I've seen it all before Renee. Take care.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[~RENEE~]

I see so those that agree with you and claim things that are not are the only ones concerned and those that say but that is not so. It is Jesus being preached and many are turning to God then those are deceived?

Well ok.

[millerrod]

I see so those that agree with you and claim things that are not are the only ones concerned and those that say but that is not so. It is Jesus being preached and many are turning to God then those are deceived?

Well ok.

Sister i know i should not joke around but i just tryed to say that three times really fast !! IMPOSSIBLE :P^_^^_^

[~RENEE~]

Sister i know i should not joke around but i just tryed to say that three times really fast !! IMPOSSIBLE :P^_^^_^smarty pants.

[millerrod]

:P:wave:

[CryoftheNation]

I really am tired of repeating myself time and time again. When will these people who have admitted they have never seen Todd Bentley except in Youtube clips or from a few selected reading stop trying to tell the rest of us what he says. If you want some level of respect then please have the decency to actually WATCH A COMPLETE SERVICE. Then you may actually know what you are talking about. Taking random edited clips from Youtube and a selection of writings from your favorite websites does not constitute good research.

Once again please tell me how Christ got it so wrong when he said the following.


“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

Mark 9:38-40 NIV

Does TB bring glory to God? YES
Does TB lead people to the cross? YES hundreds
IS Jesus lifted high? YES
Are healings done in Jesus name? YES

God Bless

[Elijah2]

I see so those that agree with you and claim things that are not are the only ones concerned and those that say but that is not so. It is Jesus being preached and many are turning to God then those are deceived?

Well ok.
My dear sister, Truth is bliss, and deception is destruction.

On all the videos that I have watched over the past, and watched again I have noticed tampering and those things I heard him say one minute, the next time they have vanished, they have been edited out.

Now on most ocasions I have NEVER seen a Bible in his hands from which he preached from, and his preaching has been on angels of all types that are NOT Biblical.

Just because he speaks Jesus, it doesn't mean it's the same Jesus that concerned Christians know.

All concerned Christians from through out the world who are unable to visit Florida view videos, and they discern on what comes out of TB's mouth. Now when they go back to the video and find that those words that TB had stated are edited out, then it makes our Spiritual Antenna blink even more.

So please tell me where in the Scriptures does our Lord Jesus Christ teach angelogy, particularly Emma, Samael, and all those other angels that I have quoted in my posting. I don't see any the mentioned in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John or in Matthew 28:20, do you?

Take care.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[CryoftheNation]

Now on most ocasions I have NEVER seen a Bible in his hands from which he preached from, and his preaching has been on angels of all types that are NOT Biblical.


On most occasions Never seen? This makes no sense. But again I say try watching a full service. You will see a bible either in his hand or on the podium. Just because it isn't in his hands at all times does not mean that he doesn't preach from it.

Why do you insist on ignoring the teachings that he is doing now and go after only one small area of teaching?

Nowhere in bible does it say that there aren't other angels than Michael or Gabriel etc. Nowhere does it give us the names of every angel, nor does it say that we can not see anymore.


Just because he speaks Jesus, it doesn't mean it's the same Jesus that concerned Christians know.

Nor does it mean that it isn't.

Once again you cannot judge a mans ministry from a few selected video clips from youtube that may or may not have been altered!

[Elijah2]

I really am tired of repeating myself time and time again. When will these people who have admitted they have never seen Todd Bentley except in Youtube clips or from a few selected reading stop trying to tell the rest of us what he says. If you want some level of respect then please have the decency to actually WATCH A COMPLETE SERVICE. Then you may actually know what you are talking about. Taking random edited clips from Youtube and a selection of writings from your favorite websites does not constitute good research.

Once again please tell me how Christ got it so wrong when he said the following.


“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

Mark 9:38-40 NIV

Does TB bring glory to God? YES
Does TB lead people to the cross? YES hundreds
IS Jesus lifted high? YES
Are healings done in Jesus name? YES

God Bless

Hi C,

What can I say. He did visit Australia a few months, and I'll say no more, like Howard Brown and all before him. His visit did leave some frustrated and not too impressed leaders and followers of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now many pastors in Australia have much the same concerns as those who are posting on this forum.

We all know that videos can be doctored up, particularly after the fact.

In fact one of our repsectable pastor has the Christian network directly to his church, and he has spoken out against Mr TB, because of his angelogy and false teaching. Our pastor is very respected in the Healing Ministry.

Now we all know that when a person begins to lose out, they polish up their act, and as sad as it is, many things happen to ensure that their agenda is pushed forward.

“Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?’ And Jesus answered and said to them: ‘Take heed that no one deceives you…Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (Matt. 24:3-14)

“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” (Matt. 24:24)

Miracles, signs and wonders do not prove that something of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, is behind it, see Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Thessolonians 2:9; and Revelation 13:13-15. The teaching of those who perform “signs and wonders” must be tested agains correct doctrine, see Deuteromony 13:1-5, and 1 John 4:1-3, and by the witness of the Holy Spirit, see John 10:3-5 and 27.

Take care.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[CryoftheNation]

Hi C,

What can I say. He did visit Australia a few months, and I'll say no more, like Howard Brown and all before him. His visit did leave some frustrated and not too impressed leaders and followers of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now many pastors in Australia have much the same concerns as those who are posting on this forum.

Unfortunately no matter who you are or what you do for God there will always be SOME who are not happy. They will disagree with your methods, they will "correct" your theology so that it fits with thiers, they will claim that they alone know what is right and they will do it all in the name of "lovingly correcting my brother in Christ".

What it often boils down to is that someone has made them uncomfortable. We are happy, we are content, we can cope with where we are and when someone stirs it up we are no longer in control. God doesn't want us to be comfortable. He wants us to have a holy discontent. This means that occasionally we will be moved out of our "comfort zones" into new areas which sometimes we do not understand.

As I said, unfortunatly sometimes people cannot cope with this and the way they deal with it is to pull apart the person they disagree with.

Now I will not say that this is always the case or that this is the case with these particular ministers as I do not know them personally. However, I do see a trend all over the net that is to pick and choose areas and push them to the forefront of the issue. They never look at the long term fruit of the person they are "correcting". Nor do they look at all the people who have been blessed by this person, instead claiming that these people have all fallen under the deception of Satan. (Which in itself could be very close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit if the move is from God).


We all know that videos can be doctored up, particularly after the fact.

In fact one of our repsectable pastor has the Christian network directly to his church, and he has spoken out against Mr TB, because of his angelogy and false teaching. Our pastor is very respected in the Healing Ministry.

Maybe he is respected in the healing ministry. If he is so respected then he should follow biblical principles, go to the person directly. If they won't answer go to thier leaders. Do NOT just bad mouth them in public. No one has a right to run down a ministry just because they disagree with it.

As has been pointed out earlier, everything Todd does is scrutinized for biblical accuracy by ignited church, and by the other partners involved. Should there be any false teachings be assured it will be picked up.


Now we all know that when a person begins to lose out, they polish up their act, and as sad as it is, many things happen to ensure that their agenda is pushed forward.


In what way is TB losing out? God is being preached, People are being saved. The Gospel is being heard around the globe and God is moving in mirraculous ways!


“Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?’ And Jesus answered and said to them: ‘Take heed that no one deceives you…Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (Matt. 24:3-14)

“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” (Matt. 24:24)

Miracles, signs and wonders do not prove that something of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, is behind it, see Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Thessolonians 2:9; and Revelation 13:13-15. The teaching of those who perform “signs and wonders” must be tested agains correct doctrine, see Deuteromony 13:1-5, and 1 John 4:1-3, and by the witness of the Holy Spirit, see John 10:3-5 and 27.

Take care.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

And I can quote verses supporting Todd aswell, that does not necessarily prove anything. The verses you quote tell us to be on our guard. However what they don't show is that EVERYONE who performs signs and wonders is from Satan. If that were the case then the disciples themselves would be guilty of this.

Signs and wonders are as much a part of the gospel as anything else. Everywhere you look in acts they accompany salvation. The gifts of the spirit include healing and the ability to work in the miraculous (1 Cor 12 v 8-11). Or are you saying that these no longer work in the church? Were they only for the disciples. Not in the least otherwise Paul would not have written about them to the Corinthians. They expected that the churches would follow this pattern.

When the bible is talking about being deceived it is very often talking about someone preaching a different gospel. TB is not doing that. He preaches the only way to God is through Christ Jesus, that you need forgiveness of your sins and then be baptised in the Holy Spirit. He preaches NOTHING that is out of line with that.

Constantly focusing on one small area of teaching about angels that you cannot prove is out of line with the bible is misleading. Please read some of my earlier posts (here and elsewhere). I tried to state that Angels are the messengers and warriors of God. Seeing them and talking to them is totally within scripture. Just because they don't have an "el" in their name doesn't make them demons. Ever thought that the names may change depending on the language of the receiver of the message? Todds ministry certainly does NOT revolve around angels. The services rarely mention them, they certainly don't do a lot of teaching about them.


The teaching of those who perform “signs and wonders” must be tested agains correct doctrine, see Deuteromony 13:1-5, and 1 John 4:1-3, and by the witness of the Holy Spirit, see John 10:3-5 and 27.

Correct. I have and it is fine! In fact because of this teaching and this revival I have drawn closer to God than ever before and he has blessed me increadably! He has even seen fit to use a person like me to heal others. Note it is not me who does the healing, but God through me. I just allow him to use me as he sees fit.

Now I'm not saying that EVERYTHING that goes on around Todd in the meetings is from God. There are always people willing to misuse the gifts. However, Todd has been impecable from the beginning, always giving the glory to God and Jesus. Always preaching that Jesus is the way.

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

Mark 9:40 NIV

I'm sure if I looked into the background of any member here I could find areas of their life or doctrine that were contrary to scripture and "dodgy" to say the least. No one is perfect. However I realise that we serve the same God, preach the same Gospel and all make mistakes (no I am not saying that Todds teaching on angels is an mistake). We all interpret scripture according to our training and upbringing. None of us has it completely correct. I have been a christian for xx"cough"xx years now (I don't even want to think about it, it makes me feel old!:D) I still find things to learn that I didn't know about every day. I certainly don't know everything, thank the Lord.


God bless my friends (yes even my friends with whom I disagree! ) ;)

Simon

[CryoftheNation]

Edited the above.

Sorry. maybe I ought to read my post before I submit it. There's a double post of the mark reference there.

Oops!

Simon :D

[Elijah2]

Thanks for you comments Simon, but I can only assess on what I see on his videos and what I hear on audio. I don't live in America, but he did visit my country.

Our pastor didn't badmouth TB, but expressed his concerns on what he said while he was here, and what our pastor had viewed on the Christian TV net that not many have in my country.

Now, I believe some did write to TB and received no answer.

I have expressed my opinons on what I have viewed over the past, what I have heard, and what others have expressed in their concerned views.

I am very pleased that your are now closer to our Lord Jesus Christ, our Almighty God.

And, like most revivals of the past, many more Christians have experienced the same as you, and got closer to our Lord Jesus Christ, after all HE does use everyone.

But, I've seen all the hype before, with all the TV evangelists who visit our country, and I do test the spirits and their teachings.

Could you please explain to me why he tattooed himself with gross figures and signs that have a demonic meaning more so than a glorification of our Lord Jesus Christ, particularly after his ministry began? Why is that so?

You be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[CryoftheNation]

Thanks for you comments Simon, but I can only assess on what I see on his videos and what I hear on audio. I don't live in America, but he did visit my country.

You can catch the meetings online at freshfire.ca


Our pastor didn't badmouth TB, but expressed his concerns on what he said while he was here, and what our pastor had viewed on the Christian TV net that not many have in my country.


I did not mean to suggest your pastor had been bad mouthing. Maybe I should have phrased the statement better. Sorry!



Now, I believe some did write to TB and received no answer.

I have expressed my opinons on what I have viewed over the past, what I have heard, and what others have expressed in their concerned views.


Fair enough but you do need to catch up, there are many ways of viewing the meetings God TV show them every day world wide (including in australia). The problem is that many people feel that they have the right to comment on Todd when they won't take the time to accurately research what is going on. Now maybe Todd didn't get it right when in Australia, maybe he did. I am not qualified to answer that as I wasn't there. However that has little bearing on his current ministry without being taken into context with his ministry as a whole.

Yes, we should be wary of people who do damage but we need to look at the whole of what went on. If I was to take your word for it I would assume that there were no pastors who felt his visit was from God. I would be incorrect. So to understand what went on I would have to research into the background, not only of Todds ministry, but also of the ministries of those complaining. Saying someone is well respected in the "healing ministry" means nothing. (I am not picking on your pastor here, just generalising). I need to know all the history of all players, be able to evaluate their biblical stance, talk to them etc. This is an awesome task. Certainly not one I should do based on hearsay and a few video clips as some seem to.



I am very pleased that your are now closer to our Lord Jesus Christ, our Almighty God.

thanks me too!:D:wave::wave::wave::wave:




And, like most revivals of the past, many more Christians have experienced the same as you, and got closer to our Lord Jesus Christ, after all HE does use everyone.

But, I've seen all the hype before, with all the TV evangelists who visit our country, and I do test the spirits and their teachings.

As you should.

Just because we've seen hype before does not mean this cannot be genuine. God also uses people like Todd. However, Satan can also use people within the ministry, attatched to it, attending it or from outside it to attack it. As I said before not every one in that meeting is on Gods team! I earnestly believe that those who are within Todds ministry are, but that some of the people attending are not. However, some of the people commenting on this ministry (and again I am not pointing any fingers, just generalising) are most certainly being used by satan to stir up a fear of what is going on, to keep people away from what could be (and in my opinion is) a genuine move of God.



Could you please explain to me why he tattooed himself with gross figures and signs that have a demonic meaning more so than a glorification of our Lord Jesus Christ, particularly after his ministry began? Why is that so?

You be blessed in Jesus' Name.

What demonic meaning? All far as I can find on the net is a few "dubious" references to japanese symbols which look "similar" (not the same) to some that could refer to a demons name, or a death mask that apparently todd has gone to extreme lengths to put in the face of a "demonic monkey" in the beard. What's this facination, some people seem to have, with looking for the demonic in everything? Sometimes a tattoo is just a tattoo and nothing more!
Now personally I don't agree with tattoos, but that is my opinion. I don't have the right to call out people because of it. I certainly don't have the right to judge them on it. As for peoples suggestion (as I have seen elsewhere on the net) that Todd must have got them all after he was saved. Has anyone ever thought that it is possible to have tattoos elsewhere than the neck and arms before you get saved. As Todd says, he's not taking his skin with him when he dies. It's not that important. By some peoples recconing no one in my youth group or church should take any note of me because I am overweight and obviously under satans influence in that I keep eating too much! Get real! It's not a major point of doctrine. It should not interfere with our relationship as brothers. In fact I know a lot of people who would be prepared to listen to someone like Todd than a clean cut "normal" pastor precisely because of how he looks. They know he would not judge them!

God Bless


Simon

[CryoftheNation]

Whoot! nearly 50 posts!!!! Is it wrong to be excited about that?

[~RENEE~]

My dear sister, Truth is bliss, and deception is destruction.

On all the videos that I have watched over the past, and watched again I have noticed tampering and those things I heard him say one minute, the next time they have vanished, they have been edited out.

Now on most ocasions I have NEVER seen a Bible in his hands from which he preached from, and his preaching has been on angels of all types that are NOT Biblical.

Just because he speaks Jesus, it doesn't mean it's the same Jesus that concerned Christians know.

All concerned Christians from through out the world who are unable to visit Florida view videos, and they discern on what comes out of TB's mouth. Now when they go back to the video and find that those words that TB had stated are edited out, then it makes our Spiritual Antenna blink even more.

So please tell me where in the Scriptures does our Lord Jesus Christ teach angelogy, particularly Emma, Samael, and all those other angels that I have quoted in my posting. I don't see any the mentioned in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John or in Matthew 28:20, do you?

Take care.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.This is a quote from the pastor of Ignited church


The Rev. Stephen Strader, pastor of Ignited Church, who invited Bentley to Lakeland, is a minister in the Assemblies of God, and his church is part of the Peninsular Florida District of the Assemblies. He said he agreed with Wood and the statement from the Assemblies headquarters.
"We have the exact same concerns. We watch over everything. Everything that happens on the platform is scriptural," he said. Strader and Bentley say there has been very little talk about angels at the Florida Outpouring.
"Emma has never been part of this outpouring. It was an experience Todd had seven years ago, and it's been totally blown out of proportion," Strader said. "The nightly message has been totally 100 percent nothing but Jesus. People looking for a problem or a heresy, they're going to find it."
He''s right they are NOT preaching angels. I have watched whole services I hear Jesus being preached as Lord and saviour. I do see him with a bible. I hear scripture. And to claim that concerned christians are the only one's that view these doctored videos. Wrong if I have a news flash these videos are doctored. As I said I have watched the entire service more times than one. Guess what I can not go I don't have that type of money but they are live on God tv. Try watching an entire service instead of these doctored videos.

[LeadWorship]

I'm not the same man I was 5 years ago. I'm no where near the same man I was 2 years ago. If you held me accountable for things I said 7 years ago, I'd hang my head in shame. That's the beauty of living a life lead by Holy Spirit, guided in the Truth of the Word - you should daily be changing into that bride He's coming back for. We should all be different today than yesterday.

I've found that this revival does have healings, yes, but what is being taken away is a renewing fire that burns in our bellies to use the gifts that God has given us. That excites us and who we are in Christ. That makes us desire to step out of our comfortable christian lives where we just go week after week and belly up to the table. Where we'll take what we have been given and give those gifts and talents back to God by using them for Kingdom work. By allowing His kingdom to come into our lives, so we may submit to His authority, step off the throne of our lives and kneel before Him as He takes His rightful place there.

[CryoftheNation]

I'm not the same man I was 5 years ago. I'm no where near the same man I was 2 years ago. If you held me accountable for things I said 7 years ago, I'd hang my head in shame. That's the beauty of living a life lead by Holy Spirit, guided in the Truth of the Word - you should daily be changing into that bride He's coming back for. We should all be different today than yesterday.

Exactly. It would be terrifying if we were all held to this level of scrutiny and judgement.


I've found that this revival does have healings, yes, but what is being taken away is a renewing fire that burns in our bellies to use the gifts that God has given us. That excites us and who we are in Christ. That makes us desire to step out of our comfortable christian lives where we just go week after week and belly up to the table. Where we'll take what we have been given and give those gifts and talents back to God by using them for Kingdom work. By allowing His kingdom to come into our lives, so we may submit to His authority, step off the throne of our lives and kneel before Him as He takes His rightful place there.

Unfortunately people don't want to see this, and so only look at the "weird stuff" and "angels". They don't see the fruit in peoples lives because they won't look for it.

What I find so terrifying is that christians are so eager to tear down a ministry that they will go out of their way to make comparisons with satanic imagary where none exists. Take "emma" for instance. Nowhere does Todd ever say her name is "Emma-o" that was an assumption made by someone on the net. This assumption was made purely to help discredit the man and had no bearing on reality. The japanese symbols on his arm were said to be similar to the words for "emma-o" although no proof was given of this on the sites I found they just quoted a random source who looked at "the site". Hmm. I really think that some of these people need to spend a little more time on their relationship with God instead of looking at everyone elses.

God Bless

Simon

50th Post - Whoo!!!! Made it!!!!!!

[Elijah2]

Well, I was burnt by Vineyard Ministry led by John Wimber, 15 years ago. For many years I thought I had been touched by the Holy Spirit, and from that day on I suffered. I believed that it was the Holy Spirit, but after viewing the symptoms of the Kudalini, I found that I have been burnt and deceived by false teaching that came from the Toronto Blessings.

That is the reason why I am very wary of so-called Revivals.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[probinson]

You know what's interesting? Jesus was burnt (more precisely, betrayed) by Judas. And He hardly even took notice.

Perhaps that would make a good topic for a thread...

[Elijah2]

You know what's interesting? Jesus was burnt (more precisely, betrayed) by Judas. And He hardly even took notice.

Perhaps that would make a good topic for a thread...

Ah Mr. Robinson, I'm not talking about "betrayal", I'm talking about being spiritually burnt by supernatural forces of darkness, I'm talking about seducing and deceiving spirits of the occult.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[probinson]

Ah Mr. Robinson, I'm not talking about "betrayal", I'm talking about being spiritually burnt by supernatural forces of darkness, I'm talking about seducing and deceiving spirits of the occult.

So because you were seduced by deceiving spirits of the occult, you think everyone else is too?

And you don't think there was a "supernatural force of darkness" behind Judas? Jesus even called him a devil (http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=chose+devil&qs_version=9)!

[Amadeo65]

What it often boils down to is that someone has made them uncomfortable. We are happy, we are content, we can cope with where we are and when someone stirs it up we are no longer in control. God doesn't want us to be comfortable. He wants us to have a holy discontent. This means that occasionally we will be moved out of our "comfort zones" into new areas which sometimes we do not understand.

As I said, unfortunately sometimes people cannot cope with this and the way they deal with it is to pull apart the person they disagree with.

Now I will not say that this is always the case or that this is the case with these particular ministers as I do not know them personally. However, I do see a trend all over the net that is to pick and choose areas and push them to the forefront of the issue. They never look at the long term fruit of the person they are "correcting". Nor do they look at all the people who have been blessed by this person, instead claiming that these people have all fallen under the deception of Satan. (Which in itself could be very close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit if the move is from God).


Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, creeps in this petty place from day to day, to the last syllable of recorded time; and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death.

Here, I'll do something that is a sin in your sight! Todd Bentley is a devil! Todd Bentley is a Demon! Todd Bentley's toenails are uneven! It all just goes on and on, meaninglessness to meaninglessness. Todd is a deceiver, a charlatan, a stage hypnotist with a gimmick that fools the same old gullible people each time the circus comes to town. You talk of fruit. What fruit? This fruit?:


On my way back to my seat I decided to get the lay of the land. To check out the people and see if I could get a better feel for the type of crowd that was present. As I made my way around the floor seats I noticed several wheel chaired individuals, people with various infirmities and some with obvious deformities. Some were old; some were young; like this one little girl with dark hair and angelic smile. Her legs had not formed properly and they hung from the wheelchair motionless but most notable thing about her was the way she brightened up the space around her with her presence. I walked by an old man, slumped over in his chair barely moving. It looked as if he’d had a stroke or something, his wife stood behind him dutifully with rays of hope beaming from her eyes as she looked around expectantly. I saw another man walk by and I caught myself do a double-take as I noticed a large tumor protruding from the right side of his face causing his right eye, nose, and part of his mouth to be distorted by the intrusive mass. As I continued to walk, I noticed more and more chairs and people, all in some need of physical healing, all with the same gleam of hope and air of expectancy. By the time I made it back to my seat I was emotionally exhausted…
The emcee took the stage and delivered a monologue which I would describe as a Bentley promo.
He told a story of how a group of ministers recently said that whenever Bentley came in the room, they could feel the presence of God and that they would often drop to the floor (in typical charismatic type fashion I suppose). My ears perked up at this because I felt he was laying the groundwork for what was to come later. He was literally and blatantly implanting suggestions. I predicted (not prophetically) that Bentley would use these suggestions later to create the desired effect so I quickly jotted down notes. I put myself in Bentley’s shoes and tried to read the crowd. They were not that difficult to read, it was like they were holding up a neon sign that read: “we’ll believe whatever you tell us, but just tell us SOMETHING!” And tell them he did.
A Successful hypnotic induction relies mainly on acceptance by the subconscious mind of the target. “Even under hypnosis this acceptance is not always automatic but rather relies on proper timing, repetition, and delivery. Timing is the single most important element in presenting a suggestion” says the book Mastering Hypnosis.

Snip -----


A few of the testimonies stood out to me, like the woman who claimed she was healed of Fibromyalgia and Rheumatoid arthritis. Or the other woman who said her doctor told her she had cysts in her arms but now they were gone. Another woman insisted that she had a golf ball sized tumor in her neck that disappeared instantly. Still another woman claimed that God healed 18 fibroid cysts in her breasts. The only consistent thing in these testimonies is lack of proof.
I mean, the man I saw earlier with the large facial tumor, wasn’t among those giving testimonials. Why would God only heal occult symptoms and not obvious deformity? I’m calling bs. It may not be these women’s fault either; they were literally hypnotized from the outset. I am quite sure they actually believe they were healed but I am equally sure that an independent physician would not corroborate their claims. I would love to be proven wrong here. That would make me very happy indeed.
A man in a wheelchair with Multiple Sclerosis approached the stage. The staff helped him up and sat him in his chair after he hobbled up the steps. Bentley told him to get up and walk. The man slowly pushed out of his chair and stood. As the man got up he walked toward Bentley and the crowd cheered. But his gait was unsure and his legs weak, typical of MS. He was obviously struggling under the pressure. Bentley told him to remove his back brace and the man did so. It actually made him more unsteady but Bentley told him to walk nonetheless. Again the crowd cheered and Bentley took the opportunity to claim victory for the miracle. But this wasn’t a miracle, it was more likely a simple case of the crowd seeing only what they wanted to see and not questioning the information to the contrary.

snip ----


After that Bentley said that there is an anointing for crippled people in wheelchairs to be healed.
In a bold move Bentley called all those in wheelchairs up to the front of the stage. He said he would pray for them to be healed. Faithfully they came and lined up side by side along the front of the arena.
But they never got prayed for and they never got healed. Bentley left the stage.
I noticed the older man in the wheelchair leaning forward, his wife still behind him, not smiling nearly as much now, but still hanging in there like a faithful companion. I was very close to them and wanted so much to reach down and take the man by the hand and just hang out with them but as the worship band played the crowd grew densely packed and the woman wheeled her husband slowly back to her seat.
I saw the angelic little girl, still lighting the path with her smile, head back to her seat along with all the other wheelchair faithful. They’re the ones that need the miracle. No amount of suggestion can heal them. Hypnosis cannot create body parts or even restore life to them and these folks are the evidence of that. They are also evidence that Bentley’s healing revival is merely a revival of hype with no actual substance. All of the physically impaired individuals with very real and evident medical problems were not healed.
They’re still in their chairs Todd; they’re still in their chairs…..


Ha! They're still in their wheelchairs Todd. They're still in their Wheelchairs, believers!
http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/leaving-lakeland/

[charityagape]

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, creeps in this petty place from day to day, to the last syllable of recorded time; and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death.

Here, I'll do something that is a sin in your sight! Todd Bentley is a devil! Todd Bentley is a Demon! Todd Bentley's toenails are uneven! It all just goes on and on, meaninglessness to meaninglessness. Todd is a deceiver, a charlatan, a stage hypnotist with a gimmick that fools the same old gullible people each time the circus comes to town. You talk of fruit. What fruit? This fruit?:






:clap:Lovely.

[probinson]

Ha! They're still in their wheelchairs Todd. They're still in their Wheelchairs, believers!
http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/leaving-lakeland/
That you're rejoicing over the fact people are still in wheelchairs, because it helps to prove your point, is fairly disturbing.

"Ha!"

Really?

[Mea Culpa]

Mark 9: 38-39

Jesus Forbids Sectarianism

38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”
39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

[Elijah2]

So because you were seduced by deceiving spirits of the occult, you think everyone else is too?

And you don't think there was a "supernatural force of darkness" behind Judas? Jesus even called him a devil (http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=chose+devil&qs_version=9)!

Sorry Mr. Robinson, I forgot I am the only one, and you are not!:thumbsup:

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[charityagape]

That you're rejoicing over the fact people are still in wheelchairs, because it helps to prove your point, is fairly disturbing.

"Ha!"

Really?

Only fairly?

[CryoftheNation]

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, creeps in this petty place from day to day, to the last syllable of recorded time; and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death.

Here, I'll do something that is a sin in your sight! Todd Bentley is a devil! Todd Bentley is a Demon! Todd Bentley's toenails are uneven! It all just goes on and on, meaninglessness to meaninglessness. Todd is a deceiver, a charlatan, a stage hypnotist with a gimmick that fools the same old gullible people each time the circus comes to town. You talk of fruit. What fruit? This fruit?:



Now, no one said that calling Todd a devil was a sin. You can call him all the silly and imature names you like. What I said was that saying that this "revival" is of the devil could be close to blasphemy of the spirit. Not that it is, just that it could be.

Fruit?

Ok what about the changed lives, people who have been healed. And yes there is proof. Contact their press office they'll be happy to provide you with some. That is one thing they have been meticulous to collect.

What about the hundreds of people brought into the kingdom. The word of God preached to who knows how many countries thanks to the tie up with God TV.

Jesus lifted high, and acknowledged as Lord and King.

I'd call that some pretty good fruit to be honest. Far better than the fruit to be gained sitting on an internet forum sniping at someone who cannot defend themselves.

If you have a problem with Todd, I suggest you talk to one of the members of his ministry. Actually I suggest you watch a few meetings with an open mind, no preconceived ideas. Now I know that that is difficult to do especially when you have already made up your mind that he is of the devil. But pray about it and ask God to open your heart. And actually let him. Don't just sit there fuming about it all the way through. Pray. Spend time with God. You may just learn something.




Ha! They're still in their wheelchairs Todd. They're still in their Wheelchairs, believers!
http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/leaving-lakeland/

This is the part of your post that scares me the most. Todd will admit not everyone is healed at every meeting. I don't know why and sometimes we never will, we are not God. But to make jokes, and laugh at people in distress is frankly offensive and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I pray that God will open your eyes, and depen the relationship you have with him. You can disagree with Todd all you like. I just hope that in some way God draws you closer to Him everyday.

God Bless

Simon