Possible reasons some don't receive healing...

[Angel*Eyes]

When it comes to healing, the problem for most people isn't really a so called lack of faith. How much faith is required to be healed? The Word says that all we need is faith the size of a mustard seed to receive what we ask for in prayer.

Possible reasons some don't receive healing:

1. Timing. It might not be the time or season for your healing.
2. Too many limit God in the way He can heal them.
Many believers are taught to do nothing but just claim healing and believe for a miracle ( There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, God has healed me this way before).
I advise people to seek God first, speak the Word, believe they have been healed, but keep an open ear to hear if God wants you to do something.
Too often people die believing that they have been healed.

Right now, I'm reading a book called "How to heal the sick" by the Hunters. They mentioned how during one service how 3 different people with crossed eyes were healed in 3 different ways.

a. For instance, He might tell you to remove or add something to your diet.
I have heard of a lady with MS who would speak healing scriptures over herself. One day she heard God give her specific instructions on how to change her diet. So, she obeyed. And guess what? She was healed !!

My personal story- Once I got really sick. I had no idea what was wrong and I didn't have health insurance.
I figured that I just had a sore throat. I quoted scripture daily and declared that my sore throat was healed.

Just speaking the Word and claiming healing helped heal me once in the past. However, this time the pain just go worse.
I don't think the problem was faith since I had been miraculously healed before (so I had no reason to doubt God).

I really wanted to look my symptoms up to find out if I had something else beside a sore throat. However, I felt like by doing so would show a lack of faith. I finally decided to go to one of those health websites and came across a condition called thrush (found in people with low immune systems or poor diets). Thrush is characterized by white nodules/lumps on the back of the throat. I went to the mirror and was shocked to discover that my throat looked like the pitcures online.

Throughout the night, I would command thrush to leave my body, pray for God to strengthen my immune sytem and praise God.The next morning I got up and went to the tv (this is unusual for me since I don't usually start my day watching tv). The tv happened to be on a christian health program that was discussing thrush. Then another show came on and the health experts were also discusing my health condition. Then I went to Valerie Saxion's website (a christian naturopathic doctor) and her show that week was going to be on thrush and candida. So, I went to the health food store I got the recommended item and I was instantly healed. After that, I also made the necessary changes to my diet. If I wouldn't have figured out that I had thrush, then I would have ignored those shows and I wouldn't have made the necessary changes to get healed.

God could have healed me instantly ( like He did when I suffered with another ailment) but I believe He wanted me to become aware of the root of my problem. I needed to learn to take better care of my body so that I wouldn't go through this again.

b. God might tell you to let go of any toxic emotions (studies have shown that certain emotions can cause health problems)
Once I went on a fast to overcome my struggle with fear & anxiety and I was healed of a condition that I had suffered with for over 4 years. I think that a combination of releasing my negative emotions and fasting helped healed me.

c God might want you to accept accept His forgiveness.
A perfect example is the bible story where Jesus simple tells a man that His sins have been forgiven (luke 5:20).

d God might want you to go to the doctor.
Sometimes God could have a divine set up waiting for you.

Awhile ago, on Praise the Lord, a man gave his daughter's healing testimony. One day, he met a guy at the hospital with an injured hand ( he didn't know the guy was a surgeon). So, he helps rehab the guys hand. The man's daughter ends up needing surgery. It turns out that the guy's hand he rehabed is the only or one of the only surgeon's in the U.S. trained to do the particular surgery needed. So, his daughter has the surgery and gets better. Wow, isn't God amazing?!

3. Your healing might be blocked by a having a divided heart.

On the outside, you might confess that you have been healed but inside you might be more focused on fear rather than faith.
Your heart has to line up with what you speak. The Word tells us to guard our heart with all diligence. Where is your heart set? What is bigger in your eyes- fear or God's ability to heal you? I've been hearing how quantum physics relates to faith. If you sow fear, you reap the results of fear. In the bible, Jobs fears came upon Him. Also, fear has some sort of physiological impact on the body.

Also, you have to focus on what you want rather what you don't want.
Instead of saying," I don't want to die" say "I want to be healed". With the first phrase you are actually focused on death.

4. Some put off their healing for the future instead of claiming it now.
In the past, I thought it was ok to say "God will heal me" or " I'm going to be healed".
I heard a sermon by a pastor who found out that she had cancer. She remembered how her sister died of cancer believing that "she will be healed one day". The pastor said that God revealed to her that saying "I will be healed" pushes healing off into the future beyond your grasp and you never receive it.

When you say " I will be healed" your saying that God's work on the cross isn't done. The scriptures don't say that by Jesus' stripes you
will be healed.

When you claim that you are healed, it doesn't mean that you have to deny the facts of your condition. Just focus on the TRUTH that the blood of Jesus has healed you in the spirit rather than focusing on the FACTS of your ailment. The truth never changes but facts can change.

5.Then there are also other possible unknown reasons.

[The Princess Bride]

I would definately say there are a lot of reasons why God doesnt always heal in "our" timing...I certainly never had pondered about the emotions getting in the way though.

Thanks for sharing. :)

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

There may be various reasons why we do not receive a healing when we seek one, but the reasons that cluster around the matter of it not being God's time or season for that make the most sense. The reasons which cluster around our performance or focus strike Moriah as too close to sorcery for comfort. The idea that our minds control or influence the matter at all comes perilously close to sorcery, the definition of which consists in "causing change to occur in conformity with one's will."

ON THE OTHER HAND ... yes, there have been soft studies and such showing that more positive thoughts definitely have a benefit to the mind thinking them than more negative ones, etc. But if we go into the realm of discussing what OUR minds bring about, we have left the realm of discussion the matter of GOD healing us. When God performs a miraculous total healing, it bes a miracle, not a matter of us having trained our minds to focus on positive thoughts.

[pinetree]

There may be various reasons why we do not receive a healing when we seek one, but the reasons that cluster around the matter of it not being God's time or season for that make the most sense. The reasons which cluster around our performance or focus strike Moriah as too close to sorcery for comfort. The idea that our minds control or influence the matter at all comes perilously close to sorcery, the definition of which consists in "causing change to occur in conformity with one's will."
well said friend!:thumbsup:

[churchlady]

The reasons which cluster around our performance or focus strike Moriah as too close to sorcery for comfort. The idea that our minds control or influence the matter at all comes perilously close to sorcery, the definition of which consists in "causing change to occur in conformity with one's will.

What the OP is talking about is not sorcery. It is the power of God operating from our spirit through a renewed mind. It is spiritual power, not mind power.

He who is joined to the Lord is "one spirit with Him". He works both in and through us. This is entirely different than sorcery, although the Devil does attempt to copycat God's power using man's soulish mind power.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Then perhaps it misunderstood the OP, but the OP distinctly seemed to be invoking the use of the human mind and human effort to effect (or at least aid/hasten) a healing from God.

Examples:
Also, you have to focus on what you want rather what you don't want.
Instead of saying," I don't want to die" say "I want to be healed". With the first phrase you are actually focused on death.^^ this suggests that whether GOD heals or not bes at least in part dependent upon what we "focus upon". Christ's healing ministry in scripture does not show this as an example. Nowhere does Christ attempt to program a human mind to think the right thoughts in order to be healed. When people asked Him to heal them, He did so. In fact frequently we see Him doing so smack in the face of doubt. Take Lazarus for example.... "Lord, he's been dead 4 days ... he probably stinks ripe about now!!"

4. Some put off their healing for the future instead of claiming it now.^^ suggests that whether GOD heals us or not depends on whether we "claim" it. Nowhere in any of Christ's healing ministry did the persons being healed get required to "claim" it or "step out in faith" (talk themselves into believing it); HE spake and it got DONE and as a RESULT, they EXPERIENCED the REALITY of it.

Just focus on the TRUTH that the blood of Jesus has healed you in the spirit rather than focusing on the FACTS of your ailment.
^^ Again, this suggests that whether God heals or not depends on what humans focus the mind upon. No, it does not. Either GOD heals or HE does not. No two ways about it, and it does not depend on US or what WE do any more than Him SAVING us depends thereupon. Not by works of righteousness which WE have done but according to HIS MERCY He saved us.

The truth never changes but facts can change.
^^ no offense but this just seems perilous and foolish, attempting to divorce the concept of TRUTH from the concept of FACT. Truth CONSISTS in factual accuracy.

Those would be just a few examples ... there bes more ...

[churchlady]

Jesus operated in the 'fullness' of the Godhead. He healed through the gifts of the Holy Spirit - healing gifts - miracle gifts - word of knowledge etc.

What the Op is talking about is healing through our own 'measure of faith' that God has given to each. If this was taught regularly in the churches, it would be as normal as getting saved, but it's not.

It involves renewing the mind so that what the Word says is how we think and see reality. God is Truth, therefore whatever He says is Reality and reigns over this lower realm of the natural. Renewing the mind to this allows the spirit/Spirit within to release power for healing.

It is serving God with our whole being - giving our mind, our tongue, our focus, our being to Him to think, say, and act in accordance to His truth.

This is growing up to be sons and daughters of God - leaving childhood behind, and learning to reign with Him. Paul's epistles are about this kind of life.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Thank you for this explanation, churchlady. It helps Moriah understand better where the OP bes "coming from".

[Angel*Eyes]

It involves renewing the mind so that what the Word says is how we think and see reality. God is Truth, therefore whatever He says is Reality and reigns over this lower realm of the natural. Renewing the mind to this allows the spirit/Spirit within to release power for healing.


It is serving God with our whole being - giving our mind, our tongue, our focus, our being to Him to think, say, and act in accordance to His truth.



:thumbsup: Exactly! This is definitely sums up a point I wanted to convey when I started this thread.

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you for this thread. One of my most troubling "gripes" is when people suggest I don't have enough faith, because I have not been instantly and completely healed of all afflictions, physical, mental, and financial. One person (who was not a charismatic and didn't preach divine healing) even went so far as to say that if Jesus had truly saved me, I wouldn't have a depressive illness, and the fact that I do means I'm not actually saved.

In how many languages can you say, "phooey"?

[Elijah2]

It all comes down to "Who you are" and "Who are you" in our Lord Jesus Christ.

And as CA said, it's all about renewing our mind, but that mind is the spiritual mind, our heart.

We have to get through the quagmire of the "soul", past all our emotional hurts and feelings, overcome our self-will, battle our carnal mind, and when that is all done then the renewal of heart will begin, and His Word and our Lord Jesus Christ will settle upon our heart, and then healing will come.

Many true-blue Christians still have much renewing to do to overcome their form of subtle rebellion.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[JimfromOhio]

I like OP's post. There is confusion between the determined Will of God and our responsibility as a Christian. Do not forget to do good (Hebrews 13:16) to help the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed (Luke 14:13-14). God will be glorified who use their spiritual gift for "help others" and "works of service"(1Corinth. 12:28, Eph. 4:12).

The Bible teaches us to bear the burdens of someone with a disability fulfills a command of scripture (Galatians 6:2). 2 Samuel 9:3-4 tells the story of David’s kindness to Mephibosheth, the lame son of Jonathan, modeling the way the church should minister.

There will be times that God will not heal.

I asked for love.................God gave me situations I have encountered so I can learn to love Him and others around me.

I asked for strength...........God gave me difficulties which gave me strengths to handle my life.

I asked for wisdom...........God gave me problems to learn to solve with Godly wisdom.

I asked for prosperity.......God gave me a brain and a talent to work so I can make good money (which I do).

I asked for courage..........God gave me dangers to learn to overcome my situations.

I asked for healing............God gave me directions so I can help others with love who are in the same situations as I am.

I asked for guidance........God gave me opportunities to use to direct my paths.

[ImmersionX]

To answer the OP:

It's not about "our", or "us" or timing or whatever.
If God will's it, it shall be done. Nothing more, nothing less in that remark.

It's the practice of promising healings from various charlatan's of the "church" that causes all of these questions to begin with....IMHO.


Peace and God Bless.

[Angel*Eyes]

If God will's it, it shall be done. Nothing more, nothing less in that remark.


So, how do you determine whether or not something is God's Will?

For instance, it took me more than 4 years to get healed ... imagine if I would've just given up and assumed it wasn't God's Will for me to be healed?

What about the woman with the issue of blood?
What about Abraham and Sarah and their desire for a child? Any normal Christian would have assumed that it just wasn't God's will to conceive a child, since they had waited so long.

[didaskalos]

The will of God has already been stated, and in no uncertain terms.
God has provided healing for every man, woman, and child.
It is alreay done, and all one need do is side with the established word and work of God.
The number one indisputable reason why people are not healed is rebellion against the works and word of God.
If you say God has not done it, you are rebelling against the word and no wonder you are not healed. God has done it. It is finished.
Side with God and His word.
"By His stripes ye WERE healed..."
"Were" is past tense. It has already been done.
Never never let the words "why does God not do it" or "He may do in in the future" pass out your mouth. That is doubt and unbelief. It is denial of His word and the work of Christ on the cross.
Start with this truth. Side with God that it is already done.
Side with God!:clap:

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Thank you for this thread. One of my most troubling "gripes" is when people suggest I don't have enough faith, because I have not been instantly and completely healed of all afflictions, physical, mental, and financial. One person (who was not a charismatic and didn't preach divine healing) even went so far as to say that if Jesus had truly saved me, I wouldn't have a depressive illness, and the fact that I do means I'm not actually saved.

In how many languages can you say, "phooey"?

It wanted to say that at least they don't blame YOUR affliction as being YOUR fault because of "sin" -- but then it remembered, yeah, they do that crap to people suffering from depression too. :doh:

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

The will of God has already been stated, and in no uncertain terms.
God has provided healing for every man, woman, and child.
It is alreay done, and all one need do is side with the established word and work of God.
The number one indisputable reason why people are not healed is rebellion against the works and word of God.
If you say God has not done it, you are rebelling against the word and no wonder you are not healed. God has done it. It is finished.
Side with God and His word.
"By His stripes ye WERE healed..."
"Were" is past tense. It has already been done.
Never never let the words "why does God not do it" or "He may do in in the future" pass out your mouth. That is doubt and unbelief. It is denial of His word and the work of Christ on the cross.
Wow. Moriah finds this extremely toxic, oppressive and abusive. And at the same time can tell it bes not MEANT to be that way, at least, not by the one who posted it.

But WOW, what a load of manipulative guilt tripping ... no wonder those who believe those things and then don't see the goods delivered become so miserable, depressed, doubtful, discouraged, and otherwise confused. :(
Please don't take that as an insult. It feels deeply distressed that people's minds and hearts get messed with that way. :prayer: To make them feel that to acknowledge reality when they do not get healed constitutes rebellion against God? To make them believe "obedience" to God involves LYING TO THEMSELVES???? WOW. TWISTED.

[Jimbeaux]

The will of God has already been stated, and in no uncertain terms.
God has provided healing for every man, woman, and child.
It is alreay done, and all one need do is side with the established word and work of God.
The number one indisputable reason why people are not healed is rebellion against the works and word of God.
If you say God has not done it, you are rebelling against the word and no wonder you are not healed. God has done it. It is finished.
Side with God and His word.
"By His stripes ye WERE healed..."
"Were" is past tense. It has already been done.
Never never let the words "why does God not do it" or "He may do in in the future" pass out your mouth. That is doubt and unbelief. It is denial of His word and the work of Christ on the cross.
Start with this truth. Side with God that it is already done.
Side with God!:clap:

How many times to we have to point out that the phrase in 2 Peter 2, “by His stripes you were healed” is not talking about physical healing?
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 “ Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;
23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
Where exactly, do you find physical healing in this passage?

Furthermore, the phrase “by His stripes you were healed” is taken from Isaiah 53.5. Of the eight instances in Isaiah where a variation the word “heal” is used it is never talking about physical healing (SEE HERE (http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=heal&version1=50&searchtype=all&spanbegin=29&spanend=29)). Rather, Isaiah always has spiritual healing, healing of national backsliding, healing of the soul in mind, never physical healing for the body.

Dids, with all due respect, to continue to make 2 Peter 2.24 a support scripture for physical healing, especially PHIA, is, IMO, to continue misleading people.

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[didaskalos]

This is NOT a debate area.
If you want to debate the OP, then go to the debate subforum and start up a debate.
Thanks.

[Jimbeaux]

This is NOT a debate area.
If you want to debate the OP, then go to the debate subforum and start up a debate.
Thanks.

Sorry, I didn’t know this was your thread and I did not read the [No Debate] warning in the thread title.

Anyhow, I was not debating. It was more like cleaning up an old mess. ;)

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[didaskalos]

Try to keep up...

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7253303 (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7253303)

Sorry, I didn’t know this was your thread and I did not read the [No Debate] warning in the thread title.

Anyhow, I was not debating. It was more like cleaning up an old mess. ;)

~Jim


I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[Jimbeaux]

Try to keep up...

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7253303 (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7253303)

If I can’t disagree with what I consider a serious error in this forum, I’m headed to the debate (discussion) forum. In fact, you may find me there more than here. S’long, amigo. :wave:

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[didaskalos]

If I can’t disagree with what I consider a serious error in this forum, I’m headed to the debate (discussion) forum. In fact, you may find me there more than here. S’long, amigo. :wave:

~Jim


I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

Have a good time.

[PETE_]

Mod Hat On
Thread is being moved to the debate forum

Information about the debate forum here
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7253303 (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7253303)
Mod Hat Off

[didaskalos]

Why was this thread moved to the debate forum????

It was a fellowship thread that was attacked by those who disagree with the OP.
Does this mean that every time someone disagrees with a thread in the main forum, all they have to do it start debating in it and the mods will punish the OPer and move it to debate????
That is good to know.
I will watch for threads in the main forum that I do not like and I will remember to start attacking the op. The obedient little mods will move it into the debate subforum right where I want it to be!!!!
Good knowledge to have!!!!:thumbsup:

Where did you get your mod license? From a cracker box???^_^

Hint 1
The attackers were breaking the rules by debating in a fellowship thread. You rewarded them by moving thread here.
Hint 2
The thing to do was to remove the debate posts from the thread and remind the offenders about the new rules.

Hmmmm...

Do I have to start moding again to fix all this???

[Jimbeaux]

Why was this thread moved to the debate forum????

It was a fellowship thread that was attacked by those who disagree with the OP.
Does this mean that every time someone disagrees with a thread in the main forum, all they have to do it start debating in it and the mods will punish the OPer and move it to debate????
That is good to know.
I will watch for threads in the main forum that I do not like and I will remember to start attacking the op. The obedient little mods will move it into the debate subforum right where I want it to be!!!!
Good knowledge to have!!!!:thumbsup:

Where did you get your mod license? From a cracker box???^_^

Hint 1
The attackers were breaking the rules by debating in a fellowship thread. You rewarded them by moving thread here.
Hint 2
The thing to do was to remove the debate posts from the thread and remind the offenders about the new rules.

Hmmmm...

Do I have to start moding again to fix all this???

When is disagreeing “attacking”? Is it possible to post a differing opinion to an OP without an argument? Can we have differences of opinion in the main forum or must we always agree?

~Jim
I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[didaskalos]

When is disagreeing “attacking”? Is it possible to post a differing opinion to an OP without an argument? Can we have differences of opinion in the main forum or must we always agree?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.


Ok... then it is not debate and should not have been moved here.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

When is disagreeing “attacking”? Is it possible to post a differing opinion to an OP without an argument? Can we have differences of opinion in the main forum or must we always agree?
For that matter since when does referring to something erring as "blundering" constitute a FLAME worthy of getting a staff notice over??? :( Particularly when the context involves referring -- compassionately and humbly -- to one's OWN experience of having made the SAME blunder at some point????

[millerrod]

.................

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

seriously come ON if it wanted to "flame" or insult someone would it have referred to itself as having made its OWN similar blunder in the process??? :doh:

[LovebirdsFlying]

How silly to turn this into a debate. I'm unsubscribing. People start fighting for the dumbest reasons....

[Angel*Eyes]

We all have a faith given by God but many of us lack PATIENCE. We are in a society that likes everything to happen quickly.

{HEBREWS 6:12}That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through FAITH and PATIENCE inherit the promises.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

We all have a faith given by God but many of us lack PATIENCE. We are in a society that likes everything to happen quickly.
Good point, excellent. We think we should no longer have to defer or delay our own gratification. Yes.

[churchlady]

We all have a faith given by God but many of us lack PATIENCE. {HEBREWS 6:12}That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through FAITH and PATIENCE inherit the promises.

So, how do you determine whether or not something is God's Will?

For instance, it took me more than 4 years to get healed ... imagine if I would've just given up and assumed it wasn't God's Will for me to be healed?

This is one of the key reasons, IMO, that people don't get healed. How many will give up and say "It must not be God's will" or it "must not be God's timing" when their healing doesn't appear quickly. Even when they see in scriptures how Jesus turned no one away from healing their sick bodies or delivering them from the enemy.

But you stood on the Word of Truth for 4 years, allowing your faith to grow strong in it's maturing as Abraham did, because you believed it to carry the backing of God Himself, who never renegs on His promises. Kudos!! :thumbsup:

The will of God has already been stated, and in no uncertain terms.
God has provided healing for every man, woman, and child.
It is alreay done, and all one need do is side with the established word and work of God.
The number one indisputable reason why people are not healed is rebellion against the works and word of God.
If you say God has not done it, you are rebelling against the word and no wonder you are not healed. God has done it. It is finished.
Side with God and His word.
"By His stripes ye WERE healed..."
"Were" is past tense. It has already been done.
Never never let the words "why does God not do it" or "He may do in in the future" pass out your mouth. That is doubt and unbelief. It is denial of His word and the work of Christ on the cross.
Start with this truth. Side with God that it is already done.
Side with God!:clap:

I'm printing this out. It cuts to the chase. Do we believe God's Word of not. It's really that simple!!!

Time to grow up Church. Make a decision. Is God good for His promises or not?

I feel faith rising just reading it. Thanks Dids. :thumbsup:

[didaskalos]

This is one of the key reasons, IMO, that people don't get healed. How many will give up and say "It must not be God's will" or it "must not be God's timing" when their healing doesn't appear quickly. Even when they see in scriptures how Jesus turned no one away from healing their sick bodies or delivering them from the enemy.

But you stood on the Word of Truth for 4 years, allowing your faith to grow strong in it's maturing as Abraham did, because you believed it to carry the backing of God Himself, who never renegs on His promises. Kudos!! :thumbsup:



I'm printing this out. It cuts to the chase. Do we believe God's Word of not. It's really that simple!!!

Time to grow up Church. Make a decision. Is God good for His promises or not?

I feel faith rising just reading it. Thanks Dids. :thumbsup:

I feel that this concept that "it is not God's time" is a result of looking at the circumstances from the wrong direction. That statement assumes that God is withholding healing from us, and that at some point in the future He will change and at that point we will be healed. I think that in reality God was not withholding anything and the healing came in OUR time not His. His time was 2000 years ago on the cross. Our time is when faith comes. Eventually we obtain the faith to recieve healing, and mistakenly think "See... God did it in His time." No... We simply caught up with Him. Any time factor that existed was on account of our finally getting there.

[didaskalos]

When is disagreeing “attacking”? Is it possible to post a differing opinion to an OP without an argument? Can we have differences of opinion in the main forum or must we always agree?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.


Jim Jim Jim....
In debating we all "attack" the other person's position and defend our own position. And debating is what we are talking about.

Have some pie.
And I do not mean the kind you throw. Try some chocolate cream cheese pie. It is a family favorite. Some people like it with graham cracker crust... but being the purist I am, I go for the plain old pie crust momma used to make.
Put a little whipped cream on it!
So good!:thumbsup:

[JimfromOhio]

I could not respond while I was out since I was in the process of moving into a house that we just bought. I decided to let this and other threads go because it is now in God's hands to direct our minds and hearts to go to the right path of doctrinal beliefs.

[Jimbeaux]

*****

5.Then there are also other possible unknown reasons.

And one of those reasons may be “because it may not God’s will” one of the reasons? But that should not be an "unknown" reason.

To me, that is the most reasonable reason why we do not receive healing from the Lord. The assumption is that because healing is in the Atonement (which it isn’t) it is just as much God’s will to heal us as it is to redeem us. But if we remove that assumption, we can see that sickness may sometimes work God’s purpose in our lives.
For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory. (2 Cor. 4.17).
“Affliction” in the NT often means illnesses (see here (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%203.10;%205.29,%2034;%20Luke%207.21;%202%20Cor.%204.17%20%20;&version=50;)). So, if afflictions are working for us something that is eternal, then such afflictions are in the will of God.



~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[didaskalos]

I could not respond while I was out since I was in the process of moving into a house that we just bought. I decided to let this and other threads go because it is now in God's hands to direct our minds and hearts to go to the right path of doctrinal beliefs.
Exactly...
That is how I got to where I am!!:thumbsup:

[didaskalos]

And one of those reasons may be “because it may not God’s will” one of the reasons? But that should not be an "unknown" reason.

To me, that is the most reasonable reason why we do not receive healing from the Lord. The assumption is that because healing is in the Atonement (which it isn’t) it is just as much God’s will to heal us as it is to redeem us. But if we remove that assumption, we can see that sickness may sometimes work God’s purpose in our lives.
For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory. (2 Cor. 4.17).
“Affliction” in the NT often means illnesses (see here (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%203.10;%205.29,%2034;%20Luke%207.21;%202%20Cor.%204.17%20%20;&version=50;)). So, if afflictions are working for us something that is eternal, then such afflictions are in the will of God.



~Jim


Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw


But these afflictions (such as Paul's thorn) occur due to some sin or failure on our part (with Paul it was pride) that we cannot or will not deal with using the overcoming methods He has given us. Paul could have utilized the graces of God (which was sufficient to accomplish this taskl) to deal with his pride. But he did not. As a result the demon was sent to do for Him to drive Him to the place where He would have to approach the throne of grace for mercy.
The point is: God has given us all we need to overcome our flesh, our sin, our weaknesses, the devil, and whatever else comes against us. If we use those tools, then the afflictions will not have to be sent.
God did not save us and then, as a part of His plan, start sending afflictions at us to perfect us. The afflictions come on us to force us to the place where we do what we are supposed to do, and that is utilize the all sufficient grace of God to grown in faith and love. But in the end, it is the faith in His word and love that accomplishes the benefit. The afflictions only have the effect of driving us to the place where we fall at the foot of the cross and are perfected by His grace.
Suffering and afflictions do not perfect anyone.
Faith and the grace of God in Christ is the only thing that saves, sanctifies, and perfects us.
All else, including suffering, is nothing but works.

[Jimbeaux]

But these afflictions (such as Paul's thorn) occur due to some sin or failure on our part (with Paul it was pride) that we cannot or will not deal with using the overcoming methods He has given us. Paul could have utilized the graces of God (which was sufficient to accomplish this taskl) to deal with his pride. But he did not. As a result the demon was sent to do for Him to drive Him to the place where He would have to approach the throne of grace for mercy.
The point is: God has given us all we need to overcome our flesh, our sin, our weaknesses, the devil, and whatever else comes against us. If we use those tools, then the afflictions will not have to be sent.
God did not save us and then, as a part of His plan, start sending afflictions at us to perfect us. The afflictions come on us to force us to the place where we do what we are supposed to do, and that is utilize the all sufficient grace of God to grown in faith and love. But in the end, it is the faith in His word and love that accomplishes the benefit. The afflictions only have the effect of driving us to the place where we fall at the foot of the cross and are perfected by His grace.
Suffering and afflictions do not perfect anyone.
Faith and the grace of God in Christ is the only thing that saves, sanctifies, and perfects us.
All else, including suffering, is nothing but works.

IMO, “afflictions” arise from a lot of sources other than (but not excluding) God—viruses, aging, bad habits, lack of exercise, etc.etc., even demons (spirit of infirmity) and God can use these afflictions, infirmities to teach us things, eternal things, we need to know.

And yes, suffering perfects us, just as it did Christ: 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,” (Hebrews 5)

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[JimfromOhio]

Paul's Letters and aware of his afflictions that we can learn much truth from afflictions, some of it depressing and some altogether elevating and wonderful. The regenerate believer often has a more difficult time of it than the unregenerate because of spiritual warfare. Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. God uses suffering to perfect His power as verse 9 said "Power is perfected in weakness". God is saying "You should not have self-confidence and trust in yourself in the sense you believe you're capable of anything eternal that only I can provide grace and power." Only God can overcome situation as long as you trust in His GRACE. The question here is, when God given you the grace to handle the sufferings of life, did you allowed Him? That's the issue.

[Jimbeaux]

Paul's Letters and aware of his afflictions that we can learn much truth from afflictions, some of it depressing and some altogether elevating and wonderful. The regenerate believer often has a more difficult time of it than the unregenerate because of spiritual warfare. Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. God uses suffering to perfect His power as verse 9 said "Power is perfected in weakness". God is saying "You should not have self-confidence and trust in yourself in the sense you believe you're capable of anything eternal that only I can provide grace and power." Only God can overcome situation as long as you trust in His GRACE. The question here is, when God given you the grace to handle the sufferings of life, did you allowed Him? That's the issue.

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that you have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. (1 Peter 5.10)

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[JimfromOhio]

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that you have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. (1 Peter 5.10)

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw


:amen: